Pachter: Indie Games Not “Game-Worthy GOTY” Experiences, “They’re More Like Snacks"

GR: "Wedbush Securities analyst Michael Pachter has made his thoughts on indie games known, claiming that they're not "game-worthy Game of the Year" type experiences, but rather "snacks" when compared to the full meals that are big budget triple-A titles."

[NYC_Gamer]

I disagree,there are indie games that offer GOTY experiences

[-Foxtrot]

It's a tough question, putting aside my dislike for the guy I kind of see where he's coming from. Even if you had an indie game with GOTY experiences and you compare it to AAA GOTY games, for example like last year Bioshock Infinite, Last of Us, GTAV etc then they are always going to be one under those types of games and I'd rather see it go to one of them instead....I just feel like AAA games offer more so if you have an Indie game which has GOTY experiences and a AAA one then I'd choose the one which is bigger, longer and packed with more content...if you get what I mean. Same goes for some Arcade games in my opinion

I think it depends out whats going to last longer for you and is fun overall.

It's like films, my lecturer in Uni always says if you ask a person what they'd rather watch, one being a mainstream funny/enjoyable film (for you) or something "Oscar" like such as 12 Years a Slave, The Tree of Life or Lincoln etc and they pick the Oscar-like film then they are probably bulls****** you since no one would choose those kind of films over a one they find highly enjoyable and could watch hundreds of times without being bored

Same applies here, do you pick a lovely, artistic game like Journey with a beautiful soundtrack OR do you pick something like the Last of Us, Skyrim, GTAV, MGS or Batman. You would most likely pick the latter which are longer and overall extremely fun where you get more replay value out of it.

Saying that you can still appreciate what Indie games do for the industry but 9 times out of 10 an AAA game is just better.

[cleft5]

The budget of a game or size of a team doesn't determine it's quality. Looking at you RE6. People would do well to remember that Minecraft actually started off as an indie game.

[alexkoepp]

I'm with pachter on this one, I don't care if a system has 10000+ 10/10 indie games, that isn't going to factor into my console purchase whatsoever. Indie game = smartphone games = who the F cares

[thekhurg]

I agree with Pachter - Indie games aren't GOTY experiences. There isn't an indie game out there that compares to actual game of the year winners or even the candidates.

[TomShoe]

Clearly Pachter hasn't played Journey.

[aliengmr]

Fact: Big budget does not mean better game.

Pachter is for the big money movers, so of course he's going to say indies aren't worth anything. They're made without a big publisher.

Big publishers don't like the idea of self publishing.

[PoSTedUP]

hmmm. i guess it depends how you classify an indie game, because technically Hhour is independently developed, the budget not being big, and its possible for it to win GOTY. i would hate for that to happen though, that would mean it'd probably appeal to the masses like cod, so there will be way too many low quality gamers on my socom servers... >:(.

[DigitalRaptor]

@ alexkoepp

How are The Walking Dead, or Outlast, or Amnesia, or The Stanley Parable, or Journey, or Resogun, or Star Citizen, or Dreamfall Chapters, or No Man's Sky, or Kingdom Come: Deliverance, smartphone games when they're designed for PC and consoles? Your generalisation is, just that.

And of course, since money is what makes Pachter's mind tick, he's not going to consider a game with a low budget to be worthy of awards. Forget its quality. AAA games with bloated budgets and mismanagement will ALWAYS be better. Always. /s

[ForgottenProphecy]

A good AAA game will always beat a good indie game, but in a dry year (like 2012) great indie games can be GOTY worthy, like Journey and The Walking Dead.

@Foxtrot Sure, it probably got more fame for being called "The Walking Dead" but it's still a good game.

[-Foxtrot]

I don't really think the Walking Dead was an Indie game in my opinion, it's more like a standard arcade game. Most Indie games usually come from small and recently new studios which start from scratch to give you something innovative and fresh but the Walking Dead is based on an already highly esbalished franchise and the studio TellTale games have been making those point and click games for years. They had the man power, they had the studio, they had the money, they had a lot of things Indie game studios would kill to have

Honestly back in 2012 I couldn't believe that got GOTY over Journey (and I'm saying an Indie game since it was kind of a dry year for gaming). If it wasn't called the Walking Dead it wouldn't of gotten the praise it did since it's such a popular series especially with the TV series now.

EDIT@Above

"Sure, it probably got more fame for being called "The Walking Dead" but it's still a good game."

I think it's average at best, nothing special. People kept going on about the characters but it was no where need the development like you saw in Uncharted 2 and this was before the Last of Us came out

[rainslacker]

Indie is a rather broad term to encompass a large number of varying size productions and budgets. Indie games can be just as big, and have the same production value as a AAA big publisher titles.

Many people automatically equate indie with smartphone type games(as seen in comments above yours), and it's pretty far from the truth.

[OlgerO]

A fantastic indie game is worth more then 3 ok triple A games

[brich233]

Indie games are definitely a step above touch based games but a step Below AAA Goty experience.

[Thirty3Three]

Outlast is NOT a snack...

[Axios2]

100% agree

Some indies are good, but no one spends hundreds of dollars for indie

AAA is what ppl buy consoles to play

Right now

PS4 has 2 retail exclusives
x1 has 5 retail exclusives

[aliengmr]

Project CARS and Star Citizen would like a word with you.

[DigitalRaptor]

@ Axios2

And what happens when they have both?

What happens when they have AAA, indie, MMOs, Japanese titles, and free-to-play games?

Good luck finding that kind of consistent diversity on Xbone.
---

Secondly, looks like your theory is a dud, since more people are buying PS4s than Xbones and the demand for PS4 is much stronger worldwide.

Lastly, gamers have proven that they spend hundreds of dollars just to support an independent developer in getting a SINGLE game made. So there's your theory well and truly demolished.

[ShutUpDonny]

No man's sky is an indie, and if, for some reasons, it becomes an X1 exclusive, I will buy an X1 and it would be the only reson why.

[liquidhalos]

Patcher annoys me so much, let the gamers decide what is goty worthy, we are the ones who buy and play them after all

[3-4-5]

Much more is accomplished with most indie games on a $1 million dollar budget than Rockstar did on GTA 5 with $350 million dollars.

Indie dev's are more efficient with their money for the most part.

Sometimes those restrictions can bring out amazing creativity though.

[schlanz]

There are, but in general terms, not really. GotY type games are usually so large and grand in scope that a small indie team could never imagine to accomplish something on that scale.

Still, I'm put off by his comparison to an indie game as a "snack". Just because indie games aren't like GTA5 doesn't mean there aren't any that aren't worth sinking hours upon hours into. Mobile games are like snacks, if anything.

[Gamer1982]

What he said was once again taken out of context people on here and other sites are on a Pachter witch hunt as usual.. People need to grow up and actually play games instead of caring so much about every word this guy says..

[Tsar4ever01]

You think that, Patcher? Than tell that to the indie devs that won tons of awards that created Angry Birds, Braid, Trine, Minecraft & Journey. You are SO wrong.

[00]

A lot of AAA games feel and play the same with a few exceptions, all style very little substance and I'm finding indie games are having more going for them simply because of the gameplay or ideas and conceptss

[rhap]

Why you americans care so much about this guy's opinion? Never really understood, seriously. Most part of the time I see an article about him it's all crap. Sounds like my grandfather who never played anything trying to explain how games and gaming market works for people who are pretty much aware of it.

Terraria, an indie game, have been on top20 steam games since forever. That must be a giant snack, I guess.

[ExCest]

Are you being subtly racist here?

[Silly gameAr]

I've never cared much about anything he says. To me he's like a PR mouthpiece that gets paid to say dumb or obvious things from time to time.

[LeCreuset]

That's the funny thing. We don't care either.

[godofboobees]

Journey says hi

[-Foxtrot]

It wasn't really up against much though when it was up for GOTY in 2012.

Assassin's Creed III (Disappointing)
Dishonored (Should of won in my opinion)
Mass Effect 3 (Lot of controversy over the ending)
Walking Dead (Point and click...nothing mind blowing)

If an Indie game was up against games from last year such as GTAV, Last of Us, Bioshock, Tomb Raider, AC4 they would stand no chance

[Hicken]

In your opinion, anyway. Journey is my GOTG, so it goes without saying that I find it better than any AAA title made in the seventh generation.

Your stance on indies seems to be biased against them BECAUSE they're indie, rather than because they're inherently better or worse than AAA games. Which is pretty sad, honestly.

[-Foxtrot]

It's no biased...it's just Indie games don't offer as much as AAA but can you blame them when they don't have the same kind of budget AAA games do.

Please don't call another opinion sad just because you don't agree with it....it's ignorant.

[Anon1974]

I agree. I have no idea how many games I played last gen, but the ones that stuck with me, the ones I remember aren't the newest iteration of COD or Assassin's Creed. They're games like Flower, Pixel Junk Monsters, Journey, Limbo, Braid, The Walking Dead, Unfinished Swan, Bastion, Flower, Super Meat Boy, etc...

It's these games that are pushing limits, playing with gameplay and not taking the safest route. These are the games that surprise and stick with you after playing. Pachter, once again, is talking with his head firmly up his ass. The guy proves over and over when it comes to gaming trends he has no idea what he's talking about.

[T3mpr1x]

He's talking about money. Any AAA game, if good (or in the case of CoD, not broken), will absolutely trump any indie game's profits.

[Anon1974]

Minecraft. Your argument is invalid.

[Moncole]

Journey isn't indie.

[Hicken]

thatgamecompany isn't owned by anyone. Therefore their games are indie.

[Moncole]

Thatgamecompany is indie but Journey was published by Sony so that doesnt make indie. Don't Starve is indie because Klei published it but Mark of the Ninja isn't indie because MS published it.

[MorbidPorpoise]

So Fez, Limbo, Super Meat Boy, Minecraft and Braid are not independent?

[Moncole]

Those games were self published.

[rainslacker]

A vast majority of indie titles on the scale of Journey have a publisher. It doesn't make them any less indie.

Most indie devs can not risk that kind of money to self publish. There are benefits to having a publisher backer, namely marketing. All the major publishers have an indie publishing branch that works under a different name. Then there are booster programs, such as what EA has with Respawn, but the developer's themselves remain independent to make their own decisions(mostly), and retain their IP's.

[Dark11]

I have seen lots of great indie titles yet i never feel like i need to play or buy any of them.
i can't say the same about AAA games tho..

[MysticStrummer]

Gamers: Analysts like Pachter not worthy of too much attention, "They're more like paid educated guesses"

Some idie games offer a better experience than some AAA games. Period. End of story.

[BanginBiscuitz]

i have to agree. Indies are fun, yes, but there is no way on earth an indie game is going to give you an experience that you will get from something like DR3, AC4, Infamous etc. Not that they cannot do it just for the fact that they dont have the finances or technology to do it. Lets be serious here nobody is gonna be like "Im buying "whichever console" because it has this indie game".

[--bienio--]

Bullshitt.

[MidnytRain]

I don't think his opinions are enough to rip him for. He doesn't look to me like much of a core gamer...

[tehpees3]

I can list tonnes of indie games last year that deserve GOTY more than BF4.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

When did BF4 get goty?

[tehpees3]

I see what you did there. I was referring to BF4 being an example of an AAA game.

[mydyingparadiselost]

Sounds to me like someone is trying to protect his livelihood

[iceman06]

IMO, it really depends on the studio, concept, and execution. There are plenty of indie titles that have that charm that just shine. There are also plenty of AAA titles that are been there done that. In the end, it's about the individual games and not so much about how much you can spend. Albeit, developer spending can add to overall quality (due to enhanced development cycles and ability to acquire expensive middleware,etc.) But, that doesn't EVER insure that you will have a HIT. I wonder if this argument would exist if Respawn would have released TitanFall independently?

[Xof]

The thing that makes Indie games "better" than AAA games is simply that indies take risks. When was the last time you saw an AAA game that wasn't utterly conventional in every single respect? It just doesn't happen these days.

The only people doing interesting new things with mechanics and game systems are indie developers.

[DigitalRaptor]

The benefits of being independent are:

- You don't have to answer to a publisher.
- Less overheads, more freedom to take risks.
- Easy to iterate ideas in smaller teams.
- Enables quick-fire creativity.
- Fosters unique ideas without publishers sticking their noses in.
- Can put your game on lots of platforms.

Luckily, there are some publishers like Sony who's utmost care is the quality of the game, and not the bottom line, as demonstrated by games like Journey, The Unfinished Swan, and the upcoming games: Rime and Everybody's Gone to the Rapture.

Those gagging for AAA over anything else have their priorities misaligned, or they have absolutely no idea how blind support of a bloated AAA budget can set bad precedent for a company to simply bring out the same game every year, with little to no risk or creativity involved.

[CrossingEden]

So how about that Walking Dead Game, that's twelve hours long, you know, more than twice as long as some of the supposed triple A games last year like COD and Battlefield.

[Picnic]

I don't regard that as an indie game though. Since when are Telltale Games indie? In fact, any Sony associated studio is not technically indie either.

Which pretty much only leaves Limbo for me.

[aliengmr]

If its self-published by the developer, its an indie game. Unless Sony actually funds the development, its still an "indie" game.

[allgamespc2012]

once again pachter, good job being a complete an dutter idiot. so many indie games are better than a lot of triple A games. Wolf among us is better than any assassins creed game. so is minecraft. this is all subjective, stop trying to make it a fact.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

Well that's not generalizing at all! Christ Pachter shut up and stick to your numbers. A good game is a good game. Why do people keep submitting articles about this guy? Are you gamers or what?

[from the beach]

That doesn't make sense, 'game of the year' is basically just a person or website's pick for best game, so it can be any game they choose.

[Blacklash93]

I think we can create our own opinions on games we enjoy more than others, thanks Mr. Analyst. :/

[lizard81288]

Funny, because I remember more experiences (for me) in Indie games, rather than AAA games. Like the character interaction in Telltale's The Walking Dead.

[thepatientgamer]

Pachter is an idiot.

[Gooch_suplex_Hold]

Journey says, hi

[swishersweets20031]

This guy goes full retard too much

[paulogy]

Okay, can we finally stop reporting on what this guy says now?

[GentlemenRUs]

Patcher... You're a ~beeper~.

Can you please stop doing what you are doing and go out for once?

[assdan]

I tend to agree, but there's some instances.

[GUYwhoPLAYSvideoGAME]

DISAGREEEEEEE!!!

[isa_scout]

While I mostly agree with him, there are clear exceptions to the rules...Like The Walking Dead which won multiple game of the year awards just 2 years ago. Also MineCraft that started out as a indie game and grew into something far bigger than most AAA titles.

[ALLWRONG]

BS Go home Pachter you're drunk

[aliengmr]

Color me surprised, financial analyst says only the big budget titles are worthy of GOTY. Shocking.

Obvious ass-kisser is obvious.

[ShutUpDonny]

Patcher is one annoying man.

[shaun1800]

Can someone please explain to me why anyone cares what this guy thinks? Seriously...why does his opinion matter more than anyone elses? What qualifies him to come up with these amazing Nostradamus predictions? I'm just so sick of these "Patcher says" articles.

[Skate-AK]

Brothers: A Tales of Two Souls easly fits into one of the best games I have ever played. Not just GOTY.

[SoulSercher620]

Journey not only won GOTY awards, but also the ONLY game to win a Grammy. That's right not a single AAA game has done that. But indies aren't important because they're indie huh?

[dillhole]

It's like saying low budget indie movies are not as good as blockbusters. If you can look past the visuals then you'll find the most innovative games are definitely the indie games. They take the risks, and sometimes that is just what is needed. You might say that indie games just aren't as long or as varied as AAA titles but I have put over 200 hours into Minecraft and still don't feel I've scratched the surface, and on the other hand I've played about 4 hours of the latest Killzone and feel I've seen it all before.

[Codey47]

I'm hoping that Pachter fancies going on a safari expedition any time soon. Hopefully a lion will grab him....then he'll know what a fucking snack is.

[andjudunno]

Price of game obviously plays a big part

[isarai]

they're more like gourmet dishes, small and abstract in presentation, but with a masterful taste made from passionate skilled creators utilizing the best pillars of their profession.

[Gamer666]

Patcher is an idiot and every time he opens his mouth someone should stuff it full of dynamite.

[cluckey07]

This guy is a huge d-bag. Most indies do not offer goty experiences. But then again most AAA games don't either. Their are the rare few on both sides that do however.
This guy is really starting to wear out his welcome.

[CaulkSlap]

I don't disagree. Nothing is stopping an indie game from being GOTY caliber but I've yet to see one that's more than a "snack" in terms of features. Better to have a separate category imo.

[mochachino]

Journey wasn't really indie but it was a GOTY contender.

Now that I think about it ps3 had so many amazing games.

[patsrule316]

I am curious how many of the people who are complaining about what he said about the indies actually watched what he said in the Bonus Round interview. He was very complimentary to the games, and said how much he liked them and how fun they were, and how happy he was that those experiences were available on consoles as well as PCs. He really had a very positive vibe overall about the indie games, but thought they were too small to be GOTY compared to the big releases.

[Codey47]

If one speaks shit far too often....the compliments become irrelevant . Pretty much like politicians, I see their mouths flapping but all I hear is gas excreting out of their face slot.

"He really had a very positive vibe overall about the indie games, but thought they were too small to be GOTY compared to the big releases."

Yeah, I gathered that from the title.