Aaron Greenberg: "Reporting Can Get Confusing, But We Did Sell 3.9"
Nice way to twist words. He is technically correct, MS sold 3.9 Xbox Ones (to retails), doesn't mean that all those were sold to customers
Why can't MS ever....EVER say something without somehow twisting, spinning or fabricating words? You sold 3.9 TO RETAILERS, not customers. Just be honest and be specific....i don't see why that's a problem for those guys. Lol, that guy Shane Stocks is going hard on Greenberg in the replies. @below He still tweeted 3.9 million SOLD, which is misleading. "3.9 SHIPPED, not SOLD. 900,000 Xbone are on shelves. Such a pathetic corporate culture, spinning everything." I agree, why couldn't he just have said "3.9 million X1's sold to retailers."?
it's a report for investors, investors don't care if it sells to customers they care for the sales... it sold (for MS's purposes) 3.9 million and received whatever that equates to in dollars back... it's not like the xbox division head came out and said we sold 3.9mil through to customers (which they have done the last 2 times they released xbox one sales numbers), the MS corp as a whole came out and was explaining the reasons for the increase in the Devices and Entertainment division edit: because MS corporation has sold those units to the retailers, there's no if and or but about it, they're no longer MS stock they now belong to Gamestop, Bestbuy whoever... it was an Quarterly Financial Report for investors (or potential) of the company and i believe it's required to explain the fluctuations in the revenue for each of it's divisions, which MS has done by explaining what drove revenue in each of it's divisions.... it's not like head of Xbox has come out and said we sold 3.9 million xbox to customers @maniac some here might have a financial stake in MS... from a pure gaming perspective, no sales means no support, which results in no third party support or even first party games so sales always matter
^^^ Ofcourse they care how many sell to customers. Selling 3.9m Xbox One's to retail is all well and good but hypothetically, if say only less than half of them were sold to consumers, that creates a problem for investors. A good example would be Surface last year, I bet they sold a lot to retail but the amount of people buying them was the problem. Obviously comparing Surface to Xbox One is apples and oranges because we know the Xbox One is selling well but to presume investors don't care how many customers buy their product is a bit silly.
Can't the big three always just come out and say "shipped"? No one is fooled anymore and there should be an understanding that it is the only real way they can accurately report numbers (and it's how they make their money; it's not ABOUT retailers).
Its misleading because and ONLY because he tweeted: "Thanks, yes 3.9 million was a great # for end of the year, record launch for us for sure. So grateful for all the support!" Which implies that they were sold to customers supporting the Xbox during launch months. I was with him until I read this. You can't count all shipped units as your launch numbers. A product launch is when it is offered to customers. BTW the 3 million actually sold to consumers isn't exactly a bad number. They just don't want people to compare their 3 million to Sony's 4 million+ sold.
Here is the official release from MS- http://www.microsoft.com/en... It clearly states "sold to retail channels" Now to the point that ^^Jack mentioned... He is correct that investors only see sales which is very true, having outreach and forward thinking investors is what MS wants, not someone who will sell off his shares tomorrow. They want investors and publishers to know how many are actually in the hands of customers, whom of which would then in turn purchase games and products. So 3.9 is misleading in this sense. I would say it is safe to assume that they are around the 3.3 million mark
Sold to retailers means SHIPPED! I sold ( shipped ) 2 million apples to marketers. 500 000 apples sold to customers.
He's obviously addressing shipped vs sold. This is the thing with playstation fans, even when MS comes out and denies the fanboys' claims, they still deny it. Get out of denial for once.
@georgenoob How is that obvious? Obvious would be stating 3.9 sold to retailers. That would be as obvious as it gets. "This is the thing with playstation fans, even when MS comes out and denies the fanboys' claims, they still deny it" Lol what? Are you looking at the same tweet as me? What is MS denying? And what are fanboys claiming? We are just asking why he can't say sold to retailers instead of misleading people to try and make their numbers look more impressive than what they actually are. "Get out of denial for once." Why don't X1 fanboys ever see the irony of their own comments?
@georgeenoob Microsoft never said they sold 3.9 million units to customers. Only that they has sold 3.9 million period. What happened was that some websites STARTED reporting that it was 3.9 sold through and other insisted it was shipped in 2013. Microsoft also already said that they sold 3 million as of 12/31/2013. So obviously this has to be taken a true as well. Microsoft hasn't experienced the shortages of the PS4 because they had shipped (sold to retailers) enough to meet demand. Problem is that different sites have different versions of what happened. They are creating confusion.
To be fair, everyone know he is talking about sell in (shipped) numbers, because they already announced sell through at 3 million. My main issue is the comments that seem to think that sell in is somehow as good as sell through... It may be in the short run, because it props up the balance sheet, but in the long run it means that the consoles are still on shelves, which means the retailers in question will order less units from the manufacturer, which will reduce their shipped numbers for the next quarter. In addition to this, sell through is particularly important because it gives investors and third party developers an idea of install base, which means games are more likely to sell better, which is where the console manufacturers make most of their money through royalties. So don't tell me sell through isn't important.
It is what you do when you are losing out up the best sounding number you can. Sony did it with move and a lot of last gen to make them sound better but now they are ahead they are putting out real actual numbers unlike the disgusting Microsoft.
They can sell 10 million to retailers but if only 2 million customers buy them from retailers publishers will have poor games sales. BTW can't retailers sell unwanted stock back to the manufacturer as the retailer has to have room in their warehouse to keep all the stock? Microsoft should care if their customers buy their console otherwise the support from 3rd parties will dwindle like it has for the WiiU. This is why Titanfall sales may suffer due to MS buying the exclusivity. They made their bed now they can sleep in it. See where that gets them :)
Why does it matter that 900,000 are sitting on shelves and 3.9 were shipped? Because very soon the retailers will say to MS, "I ain't buying no more consoles off you as they are not shipping." So very soon MS sales figures will fall whilst the PS4 sales will stay relatively high. Less consoles sold to consumers also means less software sold by developers. It matters..
It was originally for the companies earnings, not how many Xbox One customers they have, stop getting so butthurt, you sony ponies are pathetic -_- They were not LYING! Oh and BTW, who cares lol
3 million is still not bad for a console that many expected to fall flat on its face. Again though, this is not the only time its been shipped versus sold... Nothing new here, much like other companies have done. It makes sense too the say 3.9 million, makes X1 a device worth backing, a good strategy. Both PS and Xbox have sold incredibly well, hopefully will make the transition to this gen much faster than last time.... Need Watch Dogs! Edit: this is for below, May I suggest some reading comprehension classes?
People act as if these consoles will sit on the shelves forever and never be bought. They were sold to retail and will be sold to customers. If it was a situation like the Wii U initially where no one wanted it, it would be different. And once Titanfall releases, or most likely weeks before, there will be a ton of re-orders. @Pog That is the whole point. Gamers whine about choice. But this stupidity of hoping one fails is the very thing that will limit their choice and cause higher prices.
All companies report sold to retailers. Numbers sold through to customers is always an estimation and is calculated by groups like the NPD.
Lol, why are you lames getting so upset? I mean you're so worried about one thing but should be worried about anoter, like is Sony making money on the consoles they're selling?
Market share matters and it's only affected by what's sold to consumers. All the shipped numbers mean is that retailers trust in their ability to sell Xbox Ones. Retail trust does not equal consumer demand, those 900,000 consoles that sat on store shelves are a testament to that.
MS always reports shipped numbers. They always have and they always will. In reality they sold about 3.2 to 3.4 million, and that's still pretty good, all things considered.
Why do any of you care how much it sells is the real question. @Foxtrot Did you just pull a type of "MS Too"? I think you did... So because it was such a big deal years ago, people feel the need to come back and sling dirt in faces now. Excellent reasoning.
I dunno....maybe because some people don't just find gaming alone interesting, but also the industry and everything that goes on in it?
Bingo maniac. Admittedly here I am commenting on the article. I find it interesting, don't get me wrong, but why these "articles" get aggressive so quickly baffles me.
Why did Xbox fanboys all last gen care about sales......eh They made it seem relevant last gen and now it's coming to bite them back on the ass.
Gee, maybe because sales affect the industry? MS had an iron grip on developers with a slightly higher install base. It doesn't take much for sales to affect how games are released, terms, etc.
I'm an investor, that's why... Well, not quite exactly, more a trader than an investor. But this kind of commercial talk is usual.
@maniacmayhem i think mainly because,All last generation many of the same arguments was used against sony with the: Sony fudge's number's Hiding sales numbers posts all last generation. so i guess here on out its shipped number matter now?
@Fishy That is the hilarious part, the aggressiveness and the need to let everyone know it's shipped not sold or any other excuse to take the wind out of the sail. The tempers that flare just seems like such a waste of energy to a topic that has no impact on their personal lives. @SilentNegotiator And Gee, sales are doing just fine for both the PS4 and Xbox One. So what does a(HILARIOUS)MS's iron grip or the way people are commenting in this article have anything to do with how sales are doing now? @joerc Actually all last generation I remember arguments used against MS as we heard terms like: "US is not the World", "Shipped not Sold" or "wait until next year". So it doesn't matter, just more of the same people keeping the bitterness thriving.
"So what does a(HILARIOUS)MS's iron grip or the way people are commenting in this article have anything to do with how sales are doing now? " The Xbox 360 had a higher install base than ps3 due to launching a year earlier and that resulting in MS having the confidence to implement a bunch of insane policies on indies/devs. A few weeks into the 8th gen and MS is already discussing the possibility of dropping many of those policies entirely. The slightest difference in sales can have a major impact on the industry as a whole.
@Silent "MS having the confidence to implement a bunch of insane policies on indies/devs. A few weeks into the 8th gen and MS is already discussing the possibility of dropping many of those policies entirely." @[email protected] What does any of that have to do with sales, especially with both systems doing great and more importantly how does any of that relate to the comments we are seeing from people right now in this story?
Do Sony pay Lukas_Japonicus to comment? Everything he puts is negative towards Microsoft.
@quaney Yeah they do, the pay is quite good too. I live like a king. "Everything he puts is negative towards Microsoft." Then maybe MS should....oh, i don't know....DO SOMETHING POSITIVE? Or do you wan't me to make positive comments about the YouTube scandal? Or the constantly bad PR? Or the spinning of words? *Goes back to counting dem Sony dollar bills*
Microsoft does do things that are positive and Sony does do things that are negative. Just because you are too much of a blind fanboy to realize it doesn't change the reality. I don't think Sony pays you, I think you are just like the rest of the fanboys, you do your biased hate-mongering for free. Which makes it even sadder. @ Lukas_Japonicus below If trolling comments are a sign of low self-esteem your self-esteem must be in the basement. Yes, the PC is my favorite platform, but I don't go into every article bashing other platforms. I have good things to say about all the platforms. Most of the time when I bring up ways the PC is objectively superior it is only to bring a little balance and reality to a comment section being dominated by trolling fanboys attacking other console owners using faulty reasoning. And I will continue to stick up for Nintendo and Xbox gamers when the attacks against them are unwarranted and irrational. They don't deserve to be treated the way you Sony guys treat them.
^^^ Says the low self esteem PC elitist who needs to bash on consoles/console gamers/console articles to feel better about himself and fill his ego meter. "Microsoft does do things that are positive and Sony does do things that are negative. " Ya think? I would never have guessed. "biased hate-mongering" No one gives me the ammo but MS.
Heavy im going to give you a job. If you accept the position of head marketer, head of finance, head of graphics/rnd. Your basically telling a ceo how to do their job better
Your comment lacks sense so badly it depressed me. I never told anyone how to do their job. I said that what he said is technically true, even though he is twisting words. May I suggest some reading comprehension classes?
lol and the world keeps spinning....(along with ms)
If a microslop slob is talking, that slob is lying. That has been well established.
Sold to retails not to customers there the difference no twisting your words now MS
but not to MS's investors there isn't... it's cash in hand for MS either way
@ infected the last two times they came out with official sales numbers (as in sold through to customer) they said just that first it was the 1mil sold and then it was the over 3 mil sold... this time the news reported, here, was MS as a whole releasing it's Q2 financials (it linked directly to MS's own site for investors)... they were explaining why the Entertainment and Devices division had good revenue streams... that's what investors care about not whether they go past the retailer it's a requirement to explain the reasoning in bumps in revenue which MS did
jackanderson1985, You are absolutely right in your assessment and your reasoning, but it's just noise to some people who already have their minds made up. Some people automatically think that if they read it, it was news intended for them rather than a more specific audience (investors reading their quarterly financials). Combine that tendency with the fact that hating on Microsoft is in vogue, and you have a fairly potent cocktail of fanboy rage.
The amount of products sold through to customers definitely matters to many investors, especially in certain circumstances. It reflects the actual demand and popularity of a product, which is very relevant. One example would be if a company shipped 10 million new light-up yoyos to retailers and their sold through numbers after 4 months only accounted for 100,000 units. The amount shipped is either a good thing or a bad thing depending on how fast they will be resold. Chances are in this case they will be resold and both consoles are selling very well, but shipped and sold through are not the same thing to every investor.
It won't matter to short sighted investors. But when you stuff the channel to make your numbers one quarter you're going to suffer the following quarter as your customers reduce orders due to excess inventory.
WAHAHAHHAHAHA at 57.30 what a insanely dumb analogy and its wrong.
Xbox fans were hating on Sony for only releasing shipped numbers but now its cool? What a world we live in
Yeah this reminds me of the same thing. The conspiracy theorist in me has a feeling that whoever is behind prefers to report shipped numbers because they look better. Meanwhile, PS4 is selling more depite being much harder to find and XB1 had a larger drop off after the holidays. Reporting can indeed get confusing when the subject of the report is in full spin mode.
What gets me is nobody wants to admit the clear hypocrisy... MS was throwing sales in Sony's face every chance they could get last gen. Until Ps3 caught up ofcourse. Now they're losing, it's all about both consoles are successful, healthy industry, blah blah Xbox fans were bashing multiplats on Ps3 now resolution and frames per second don't matter On the flipside Sony fans didn't wanna pay for online now they do I could list so much more but whats the point You can be a fanboy without being a blinded hypocrite... I know I'm pro Sony, but that doesn't mean I ignore facts
head to news.xbox.com, both times the xbox division have released sales numbers it's been sold through to customers... the report that got splattered about this site and many others was an investors report ... they want to see where the cash is coming from/going to and MS Corp told em as such... one of the areas where it was coming from was the sale to retailers. @aibreeze way up there... the difference between Surface and Xbox One is that surface was sold on consignment while i believe the majority of the xbox ones were sold as is with the usual 30 day return policy goods have... they couldn't sell the surface as sales because Apple have the market cornered and shops wouldn't take the risk but with consoles it's what 6+ years between gens usually and retailers knew they'd sell
I wanna make it clear I'm not getting on MS for releasing shipped numbers Its the hypocritical Xbox fans that are suddenly applauding the Xbox shipped numbers they bashed Sony for
You know last gen resolution, indie games and better multiplatforms mattered as well. My favourite is still "PS3 is waaaay to expensive it only costs more because of the multimedia stuff and blu ray that will fail against HD-DVD and it should be a gaming console and not a blu ray player" Now all of those things don't matter. The only thing that has not changes is "playstation haz no gamez"
Congrats to ms..investors must be really impressed. With titanfall, fable and halo5 coming out in the same year i dont see it being difficult for them to hit 11million plus by year end. Bring on the exclusives.
Well almost a million of those sit on store shelves. It was obvious that they would sell all units to retail will have expected a high sell though and bought as many as possible. The sell through might not be as high as expected by retail.
You guys just dont give up lol
Doesn't really make sense. Reverse this a few years ago when Sony was reporting "shipped" numbers and its the worst thing in the world. Fast forward to today and its suddenly okay? Funny how this war works.
I knew it and I even said it a couple months ago. PS fans will spend this entire" next-gen" online in forums and message boards talking up Sony and talking down MS. You'll never admit it, but you guy's who claim to love gaming so much are almost always online trolling and not on your console gaming. PS4 can't be too fun if you're always here.
Hey guys it's Shane Stocks here, the guy who asked him the question @shane_stocks. I completely agree with what the majority of you have said here. Aaron is clearly spinning YET AGAIN the figures, by suggesting that 3.9m customers have purchased the console. It absolutely boils me, that not once, can the Xbox team this generation be honest with a figure for once, but instead feel they must spin it in some way.
I'm pretty sure most investors know what he is talking about. The only people who don't understand and feel mislead is the people on websites.
Aaron will lie on his mother. When stockholders are involve.
Well I for one didn't know the retailer thing was so obvious, for instance when they said both consoles sold 1 million systems each in 24 hours, I immediately assume customers and figure this is the same context
This is the problem here: On generation 7 every time Sony came up to talk about numbers the Xbox community was ALWAYS saying ”those are only shipped numbers, not sold” ”shipped numbers doesn't count, is what it was sold to customers that matters". And now on this generation (were the xbone is behind the PS4) the Xbox community says totally the contrary: ”shipped and sold numbers are the same" How can they be respected and taken seriously when they don't even respect their arguments. The hypocrisy is the problem here
What in the world are you talking about? I remember lots of times where it was the exact opposite. Sony fans were claiming the Xbox 360s' numbers were only shipped whereas Sony's numbers were sold to customers. How can you twist history so completely? I've always said that all companies report sold to retailers, because everything I know about how the industry reports numbers leads me to believe this. NPD later comes along and estimates as best they can the actual sold through numbers.
Every time MS has something positive to say about the Xbox One, the internet is filled with raging fanboys, financial analysts, gamestop, bestbuy, tesco, game employees journalists, industry insiders, secretaries and personal assistants to MS executives, game developers, mathematicians, graphics designers..and a host of others. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mm... For example : "MassEffect23 + 35m ago I work part time at Walmart. My store sold over 40 PS4s in 4 days. We won't have any PS4s for a month. But we still have Bones, at least 25 boxes. "
These comments. I thought YouTube was a terrible community.
Communities like Youtube and Neogaf are bad enough but N4G is Sony fanboy central. The shitty bubble system here doesn't help because it's easily exploited by these people. I believe that even the mods post and troll here on alternate accounts. There are a few posters here that are constantly trolling yet always seem to have a ridiculous bubble count.
Looks like vgchartz has to correct their site
We will probably never know for sure but obviously MS is working overtime to protect their image. Good for them and I'm glad for their customers they put out a quality product this time. Never owned an Xbox myself due to seeing friends having to return countless 360's. Anyway it seems like Sony is just moving on trying to corner the rest of the Japanese market from Nintendo and grabbing some mmo pie from Steam. Guess we will see what happens.