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Aaron Greenberg: "Reporting Can Get Confusing, But We Did Sell 3.9"

Aaron Greenberg: "Reporting Can Get Confusing, But We Did Sell 3.9"

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xHeavYx1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

Nice way to twist words. He is technically correct, MS sold 3.9 Xbox Ones (to retails), doesn't mean that all those were sold to customers

GarrusVakarian1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

Why can't MS ever....EVER say something without somehow twisting, spinning or fabricating words?

You sold 3.9 TO RETAILERS, not customers. Just be honest and be specific....i don't see why that's a problem for those guys.

Lol, that guy Shane Stocks is going hard on Greenberg in the replies.

@below

He still tweeted 3.9 million SOLD, which is misleading.

"3.9 SHIPPED, not SOLD. 900,000 Xbone are on shelves. Such a pathetic corporate culture, spinning everything."

I agree, why couldn't he just have said "3.9 million X1's sold to retailers."?

jackanderson19851701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

it's a report for investors, investors don't care if it sells to customers they care for the sales... it sold (for MS's purposes) 3.9 million and received whatever that equates to in dollars back... it's not like the xbox division head came out and said we sold 3.9mil through to customers (which they have done the last 2 times they released xbox one sales numbers), the MS corp as a whole came out and was explaining the reasons for the increase in the Devices and Entertainment division

edit: because MS corporation has sold those units to the retailers, there's no if and or but about it, they're no longer MS stock they now belong to Gamestop, Bestbuy whoever... it was an Quarterly Financial Report for investors (or potential) of the company and i believe it's required to explain the fluctuations in the revenue for each of it's divisions, which MS has done by explaining what drove revenue in each of it's divisions.... it's not like head of Xbox has come out and said we sold 3.9 million xbox to customers

@maniac some here might have a financial stake in MS... from a pure gaming perspective, no sales means no support, which results in no third party support or even first party games so sales always matter

pompombrum1701d ago

^^^ Ofcourse they care how many sell to customers. Selling 3.9m Xbox One's to retail is all well and good but hypothetically, if say only less than half of them were sold to consumers, that creates a problem for investors. A good example would be Surface last year, I bet they sold a lot to retail but the amount of people buying them was the problem. Obviously comparing Surface to Xbox One is apples and oranges because we know the Xbox One is selling well but to presume investors don't care how many customers buy their product is a bit silly.

SilentNegotiator1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

Can't the big three always just come out and say "shipped"? No one is fooled anymore and there should be an understanding that it is the only real way they can accurately report numbers (and it's how they make their money; it's not ABOUT retailers).

Eonjay1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

Its misleading because and ONLY because he tweeted:

"Thanks, yes 3.9 million was a great # for end of the year, record launch for us for sure. So grateful for all the support!"

Which implies that they were sold to customers supporting the Xbox during launch months. I was with him until I read this. You can't count all shipped units as your launch numbers. A product launch is when it is offered to customers. BTW the 3 million actually sold to consumers isn't exactly a bad number. They just don't want people to compare their 3 million to Sony's 4 million+ sold.

us_army1701d ago

Here is the official release from MS- http://www.microsoft.com/en...

It clearly states "sold to retail channels"

Now to the point that ^^Jack mentioned... He is correct that investors only see sales which is very true, having outreach and forward thinking investors is what MS wants, not someone who will sell off his shares tomorrow. They want investors and publishers to know how many are actually in the hands of customers, whom of which would then in turn purchase games and products. So 3.9 is misleading in this sense.
I would say it is safe to assume that they are around the 3.3 million mark

imt5581701d ago

Sold to retailers means SHIPPED! I sold ( shipped ) 2 million apples to marketers. 500 000 apples sold to customers.

georgeenoob1701d ago

He's obviously addressing shipped vs sold. This is the thing with playstation fans, even when MS comes out and denies the fanboys' claims, they still deny it. Get out of denial for once.

GarrusVakarian1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

@georgenoob

How is that obvious? Obvious would be stating 3.9 sold to retailers. That would be as obvious as it gets.

"This is the thing with playstation fans, even when MS comes out and denies the fanboys' claims, they still deny it"

Lol what? Are you looking at the same tweet as me? What is MS denying? And what are fanboys claiming? We are just asking why he can't say sold to retailers instead of misleading people to try and make their numbers look more impressive than what they actually are.

"Get out of denial for once."

Why don't X1 fanboys ever see the irony of their own comments?

Eonjay1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

@georgeenoob

Microsoft never said they sold 3.9 million units to customers. Only that they has sold 3.9 million period. What happened was that some websites STARTED reporting that it was 3.9 sold through and other insisted it was shipped in 2013.

Microsoft also already said that they sold 3 million as of 12/31/2013. So obviously this has to be taken a true as well. Microsoft hasn't experienced the shortages of the PS4 because they had shipped (sold to retailers) enough to meet demand.

Problem is that different sites have different versions of what happened. They are creating confusion.

gaffyh1701d ago

To be fair, everyone know he is talking about sell in (shipped) numbers, because they already announced sell through at 3 million.

My main issue is the comments that seem to think that sell in is somehow as good as sell through...

It may be in the short run, because it props up the balance sheet, but in the long run it means that the consoles are still on shelves, which means the retailers in question will order less units from the manufacturer, which will reduce their shipped numbers for the next quarter.

In addition to this, sell through is particularly important because it gives investors and third party developers an idea of install base, which means games are more likely to sell better, which is where the console manufacturers make most of their money through royalties.

So don't tell me sell through isn't important.

hellzsupernova1701d ago

It is what you do when you are losing out up the best sounding number you can. Sony did it with move and a lot of last gen to make them sound better but now they are ahead they are putting out real actual numbers unlike the disgusting Microsoft.

Seafort1701d ago

They can sell 10 million to retailers but if only 2 million customers buy them from retailers publishers will have poor games sales.

BTW can't retailers sell unwanted stock back to the manufacturer as the retailer has to have room in their warehouse to keep all the stock?

Microsoft should care if their customers buy their console otherwise the support from 3rd parties will dwindle like it has for the WiiU.

This is why Titanfall sales may suffer due to MS buying the exclusivity. They made their bed now they can sleep in it. See where that gets them :)

vigilante_man1701d ago

Why does it matter that 900,000 are sitting on shelves and 3.9 were shipped?

Because very soon the retailers will say to MS, "I ain't buying no more consoles off you as they are not shipping."

So very soon MS sales figures will fall whilst the PS4 sales will stay relatively high. Less consoles sold to consumers also means less software sold by developers.

It matters..

GUTZnPAPERCUTZ1701d ago

It was originally for the companies earnings, not how many Xbox One customers they have, stop getting so butthurt, you sony ponies are pathetic -_- They were not LYING! Oh and BTW, who cares lol

Pogmathoin1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

3 million is still not bad for a console that many expected to fall flat on its face. Again though, this is not the only time its been shipped versus sold... Nothing new here, much like other companies have done. It makes sense too the say 3.9 million, makes X1 a device worth backing, a good strategy. Both PS and Xbox have sold incredibly well, hopefully will make the transition to this gen much faster than last time.... Need Watch Dogs!

Edit: this is for below,
May I suggest some reading comprehension classes?

dcbronco1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

People act as if these consoles will sit on the shelves forever and never be bought. They were sold to retail and will be sold to customers. If it was a situation like the Wii U initially where no one wanted it, it would be different. And once Titanfall releases, or most likely weeks before, there will be a ton of re-orders.

@Pog

That is the whole point. Gamers whine about choice. But this stupidity of hoping one fails is the very thing that will limit their choice and cause higher prices.

starchild1701d ago

All companies report sold to retailers. Numbers sold through to customers is always an estimation and is calculated by groups like the NPD.

WrAiTh Sp3cTr31701d ago

Lol, why are you lames getting so upset? I mean you're so worried about one thing but should be worried about anoter, like is Sony making money on the consoles they're selling?

FamilyGuy1700d ago

Market share matters and it's only affected by what's sold to consumers. All the shipped numbers mean is that retailers trust in their ability to sell Xbox Ones. Retail trust does not equal consumer demand, those 900,000 consoles that sat on store shelves are a testament to that.

avengers19781700d ago

MS always reports shipped numbers. They always have and they always will. In reality they sold about 3.2 to 3.4 million, and that's still pretty good, all things considered.

+ Show (17) more repliesLast reply 1700d ago
maniacmayhem1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

Why do any of you care how much it sells is the real question.

@Foxtrot

Did you just pull a type of "MS Too"? I think you did...

So because it was such a big deal years ago, people feel the need to come back and sling dirt in faces now. Excellent reasoning.

GarrusVakarian1701d ago

I dunno....maybe because some people don't just find gaming alone interesting, but also the industry and everything that goes on in it?

Fishy Fingers1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

Bingo maniac.

Admittedly here I am commenting on the article. I find it interesting, don't get me wrong, but why these "articles" get aggressive so quickly baffles me.

-Foxtrot1701d ago

Why did Xbox fanboys all last gen care about sales......eh

They made it seem relevant last gen and now it's coming to bite them back on the ass.

SilentNegotiator1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

Gee, maybe because sales affect the industry?

MS had an iron grip on developers with a slightly higher install base. It doesn't take much for sales to affect how games are released, terms, etc.

BG115791701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

I'm an investor, that's why...

Well, not quite exactly, more a trader than an investor. But this kind of commercial talk is usual.

joeorc1701d ago

@maniacmayhem

i think mainly because,All last generation many of the same arguments was used against sony with the:

Sony fudge's number's Hiding sales numbers posts all last generation. so i guess here on out its shipped number matter now?

maniacmayhem1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

@Fishy

That is the hilarious part, the aggressiveness and the need to let everyone know it's shipped not sold or any other excuse to take the wind out of the sail.

The tempers that flare just seems like such a waste of energy to a topic that has no impact on their personal lives.

@SilentNegotiator

And Gee, sales are doing just fine for both the PS4 and Xbox One.

So what does a(HILARIOUS)MS's iron grip or the way people are commenting in this article have anything to do with how sales are doing now?

@joerc
Actually all last generation I remember arguments used against MS as we heard terms like:

"US is not the World", "Shipped not Sold" or "wait until next year".

So it doesn't matter, just more of the same people keeping the bitterness thriving.

SilentNegotiator1701d ago

"So what does a(HILARIOUS)MS's iron grip or the way people are commenting in this article have anything to do with how sales are doing now? "

The Xbox 360 had a higher install base than ps3 due to launching a year earlier and that resulting in MS having the confidence to implement a bunch of insane policies on indies/devs. A few weeks into the 8th gen and MS is already discussing the possibility of dropping many of those policies entirely.

The slightest difference in sales can have a major impact on the industry as a whole.

maniacmayhem1701d ago

@Silent

"MS having the confidence to implement a bunch of insane policies on indies/devs. A few weeks into the 8th gen and MS is already discussing the possibility of dropping many of those policies entirely."

@[email protected] What does any of that have to do with sales, especially with both systems doing great and more importantly how does any of that relate to the comments we are seeing from people right now in this story?

quaneylfc1701d ago

Do Sony pay Lukas_Japonicus to comment? Everything he puts is negative towards Microsoft.

GarrusVakarian1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

@quaney

Yeah they do, the pay is quite good too. I live like a king.

"Everything he puts is negative towards Microsoft."

Then maybe MS should....oh, i don't know....DO SOMETHING POSITIVE? Or do you wan't me to make positive comments about the YouTube scandal? Or the constantly bad PR? Or the spinning of words?

*Goes back to counting dem Sony dollar bills*

starchild1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

Microsoft does do things that are positive and Sony does do things that are negative. Just because you are too much of a blind fanboy to realize it doesn't change the reality.

I don't think Sony pays you, I think you are just like the rest of the fanboys, you do your biased hate-mongering for free. Which makes it even sadder.

@ Lukas_Japonicus below

If trolling comments are a sign of low self-esteem your self-esteem must be in the basement.

Yes, the PC is my favorite platform, but I don't go into every article bashing other platforms. I have good things to say about all the platforms. Most of the time when I bring up ways the PC is objectively superior it is only to bring a little balance and reality to a comment section being dominated by trolling fanboys attacking other console owners using faulty reasoning.

And I will continue to stick up for Nintendo and Xbox gamers when the attacks against them are unwarranted and irrational. They don't deserve to be treated the way you Sony guys treat them.

GarrusVakarian1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

^^^

Says the low self esteem PC elitist who needs to bash on consoles/console gamers/console articles to feel better about himself and fill his ego meter.

"Microsoft does do things that are positive and Sony does do things that are negative. "

Ya think? I would never have guessed.

"biased hate-mongering"

No one gives me the ammo but MS.

+ Show (10) more repliesLast reply 1701d ago
mediate-this1701d ago

Heavy im going to give you a job. If you accept the position of head marketer, head of finance, head of graphics/rnd.

Your basically telling a ceo how to do their job better

xHeavYx1701d ago

Your comment lacks sense so badly it depressed me. I never told anyone how to do their job. I said that what he said is technically true, even though he is twisting words. May I suggest some reading comprehension classes?

HaveAsandwich1701d ago

lol and the world keeps spinning....(along with ms)

medman1701d ago

If a microslop slob is talking, that slob is lying. That has been well established.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 1700d ago
XiSasukeUchiha1701d ago

Sold to retails not to customers there the difference no twisting your words now MS

jackanderson19851701d ago

but not to MS's investors there isn't... it's cash in hand for MS either way

1701d ago
jackanderson19851701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

@ infected the last two times they came out with official sales numbers (as in sold through to customer) they said just that first it was the 1mil sold and then it was the over 3 mil sold... this time the news reported, here, was MS as a whole releasing it's Q2 financials (it linked directly to MS's own site for investors)... they were explaining why the Entertainment and Devices division had good revenue streams... that's what investors care about not whether they go past the retailer

it's a requirement to explain the reasoning in bumps in revenue which MS did

Naga1701d ago

jackanderson1985,

You are absolutely right in your assessment and your reasoning, but it's just noise to some people who already have their minds made up.

Some people automatically think that if they read it, it was news intended for them rather than a more specific audience (investors reading their quarterly financials). Combine that tendency with the fact that hating on Microsoft is in vogue, and you have a fairly potent cocktail of fanboy rage.

HighResHero1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

The amount of products sold through to customers definitely matters to many investors, especially in certain circumstances.
It reflects the actual demand and popularity of a product, which is very relevant.
One example would be if a company shipped 10 million new light-up yoyos to retailers and their sold through numbers after 4 months only accounted for 100,000 units.
The amount shipped is either a good thing or a bad thing depending on how fast they will be resold.
Chances are in this case they will be resold and both consoles are selling very well, but shipped and sold through are not the same thing to every investor.

kneon1701d ago

It won't matter to short sighted investors. But when you stuff the channel to make your numbers one quarter you're going to suffer the following quarter as your customers reduce orders due to excess inventory.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 1701d ago
majiebeast1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

WAHAHAHHAHAHA at 57.30 what a insanely dumb analogy and its wrong.

1701d ago Replies(1)
DanielGearSolid1701d ago

Xbox fans were hating on Sony for only releasing shipped numbers but now its cool?

What a world we live in

MysticStrummer1701d ago

Yeah this reminds me of the same thing. The conspiracy theorist in me has a feeling that whoever is behind prefers to report shipped numbers because they look better. Meanwhile, PS4 is selling more depite being much harder to find and XB1 had a larger drop off after the holidays.

Reporting can indeed get confusing when the subject of the report is in full spin mode.

DanielGearSolid1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

What gets me is nobody wants to admit the clear hypocrisy...

MS was throwing sales in Sony's face every chance they could get last gen. Until Ps3 caught up ofcourse. Now they're losing, it's all about both consoles are successful, healthy industry, blah blah

Xbox fans were bashing multiplats on Ps3 now resolution and frames per second don't matter

On the flipside Sony fans didn't wanna pay for online now they do

I could list so much more but whats the point

You can be a fanboy without being a blinded hypocrite... I know I'm pro Sony, but that doesn't mean I ignore facts

jackanderson19851701d ago

head to news.xbox.com, both times the xbox division have released sales numbers it's been sold through to customers... the report that got splattered about this site and many others was an investors report ... they want to see where the cash is coming from/going to and MS Corp told em as such... one of the areas where it was coming from was the sale to retailers.

@aibreeze way up there... the difference between Surface and Xbox One is that surface was sold on consignment while i believe the majority of the xbox ones were sold as is with the usual 30 day return policy goods have... they couldn't sell the surface as sales because Apple have the market cornered and shops wouldn't take the risk but with consoles it's what 6+ years between gens usually and retailers knew they'd sell

DanielGearSolid1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

I wanna make it clear I'm not getting on MS for releasing shipped numbers

Its the hypocritical Xbox fans that are suddenly applauding the Xbox shipped numbers they bashed Sony for

OrangePowerz1701d ago (Edited 1701d ago )

You know last gen resolution, indie games and better multiplatforms mattered as well. My favourite is still "PS3 is waaaay to expensive it only costs more because of the multimedia stuff and blu ray that will fail against HD-DVD and it should be a gaming console and not a blu ray player" Now all of those things don't matter.

The only thing that has not changes is "playstation haz no gamez"