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Square responds to Tomb Raider framerate-gate: 'Anything beyond 30fps is gravy'

Square Enix has responded to this morning's reports that Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition runs at 60fps on PlayStation 4 and only 30fps on Xbox One, stating that "anything beyond 30fps for [Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition] is gravy".

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Mikelarry854d ago (Edited 854d ago )

lol i wish one of these developers would just balls up and say " with the hardware we were provided we could get x amount from this console, don't blame us for what we were able achieve with the tools provided to us"

mewhy32854d ago

I agree with mike. I hope that they don't start watering down games because of the lowest common denominator. I mean they should push BOTH consoles to the max so that we get the best experience available from the given console that we're playing on not letting one hold the other back.

Ripsta7th854d ago

Mewhy32- i thinks its too late for that now, the public alredy knows the ps4 is more powerful, if in the future we see watered down games we will know why(MS,Money)

Death854d ago

Or lack of interest from gamers. If you want to see the PS4 continue to benefit, buy the games. If more people buy the PS4 version of Tomb Raider it will set an example for all devs to see. If less buy it on the PS4, devs may be more inclined to make the games identical if cost is a factor.

-Foxtrot854d ago (Edited 854d ago )

This is why I'm scared developers aren't going to take advantage of the PS4...and I mean third party devs.

They ask for better tec and then when they have it they decide not to use it incase it "upsets" someone.

The thing is with higher up developers like...oh I don't know lets say Rockstar for this example, they have the upper hand because of how respected they are as a company and how many copies their games sell....why the hell would Microsoft get p***** off with them if they told the truth, they can't at the end of the day since they need Rockstar more then they need them especially when the PS4 is selling more this gen (so far) and seems more popular, so Rockstar would gain their sales regardless since more people would buy a PS4 to buy their game.

I mean what are MS going to say to someone like them, tell them off for their silly policy about not letting games on their consoles if they are better on another.....would they REALLY give up something like GTA 6, Red Dead 3 or even Bully 2 for their consoles and make it seem like it's a PS4 exclusive which would gain the PS4 more sales.

I don't think so

So the fact is higher up devs like Rockstar, Irrational, Valve, Konami etc have the upper hand. Once they start to stick up for themselves then smaller devs and Indies will follow.

AliTheSnake1854d ago

60fps is good , only if its stable. In most cases, it's not, specially in third persons where the drops are highly noticeable. Like Contrast on ps4, its 60fps but it drops frequently.

For high Tech People out there I have a question, why is it always 60fps or 30fps ? Why not lock some games at 40 or 45 for example ? fast enough to feel smooth and low enough to avoid high drops and apply more effects.

mhunterjr854d ago

I don't get it. Isn't that what they are saying when they release two versions of a game that perform differently?

Spenok854d ago

It would be nice to see brutal honesty out of a dev. However it makes sense that they wouldn't. As it could potentially muddy their relationship with a console manufacturer. Which in the end wouldn't be worth it for the developer. You generally only hear that stuff from indie devs as they have less to lose.

admiralvic854d ago

"lol i wish one of these developers would just balls up and say " with the hardware we were provided we could get x amount from this console, don't blame us for what we were able achieve with the tools provided to us""

Thats basically saying F U to M$ and telling people to blame M$ for their short comings, not themselves. Even if it is true, there will always be developers that get more out of the system and maybe because the PS4 is assumed to have more raw power, it takes less actual effort to achieve things like this and thus it happens, versus more effort on the XB1.

gman_moose854d ago

Microsoft won't have it- that's why the devs are tight lipped and diplomatic in their answers. Say anything negative about Xbox, and MS takes their ball and goes home. They must be absolutely steaming about the better performance devs are achieving from PS4. They take the same stance against Indie devs who for whatever reason decide to release a game on Sony first... MS says don't even bother if we don't get it first, or at least at the same time.

ShwankyShpanky854d ago

@Ali: "60fps is good , only if its stable. In most cases, it's not, specially in third persons where the drops are highly noticeable."

True, but even games that target 30fps often have stutters and drops.

"why is it always 60fps or 30fps"

Because it syncs better with TV refresh rates, which are generally 60Hz or 120Hz.

starchild854d ago (Edited 854d ago )

@AliTheSnake1

I'm a PC gamer that loves 60fps+, but at the same time I agree with you that it needs to be smooth. I would take a solid 30fps over a framerate that is 60fps 75% of the time but frequently drops into the 40s.

The reason why developers usually either target 30fps or 60fps is due to the fact that most displays are 60hz (or multiples of that). So, framerates have to be able to evenly divide into 60 in order to be in sync with the refresh rate of the display.

You could have a frame rate at 20fps, but that simply doesn't give you smooth enough motion or controller response.

With a 60hz display a solid 60fps is ideal. This results in one unique frame for each time the screen updates itself. Frame rates higher than 60fps would be wasted on a 60hz display since the display is only refreshing 60 times a second anyway.

The only exception to this would be if you turn off v-sync, in which case you would be able to perceive smoother animation and less latency in the controls at frame rates above 60fps even though the display was only displaying 60 of those frames per second.

The downside, of course, is that you would get screen tearing. Many people, including me, hate screen tearing so it's much better to use v-sync and limit your framerate to 60fps on a 60hz display.

Anyway, as to why you can't just cap the frame rate at 40 or 45fps, well technically you can. On my PC I can cap the frame rate at any rate I want using tools like RadeonPro.

The problem is, capping the frame rate at 40fps results in judder. 40 doesn't divide evenly into 60.

With 60fps you have one unique frame for each time the screen refreshes. It could be represented as: 111111111111
(the 1s representing unique frames)

30fps also works fairly well because you simply have one unique frame followed by a duplicate frame: 101010101010
(1s are unique frames, 0s are duplicates)

The problem with 40fps is that the frame interval will be irregular. It would look like: 110110110110110110
In other words, there would be two unique frames followed by a duplicate. This would result in judder.

But at least the judder would occur in a regular pulsed cadence.

When a frame rate is unlocked however the frame intervals become highly erratic. For example: 110100110100011110110011100
This results in an extremely annoying, highly random judder.

This is the reason Nvidia developed G-Sync technology, which allows displays to have variable refresh rates and synchronize their refresh rates with the frame rates being output by GPUs. This means that no matter how many frames are being output by your GPU the screen will only refresh one time for each frame.

Even with G-sync, higher frame rates will still result in smoother motion and better controller response, but the stutter that normally results from uneven frame intervals will be essentially eliminated.

ITPython854d ago

As long as the PS4 continues to lead the pack, we shouldn't have to worry too much about devs optimizing games for the lowest common denominator (XB1) and then using that same version for the PS4.

So if PS4 is leading and we end up seeing this happen, it's likely due to MS paying some big bucks to keep the versions 'fair' between both consoles. It's probably going to happen, but I sure hope not.

R0ckPapaSiza853d ago SpamShow
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UltraNova853d ago (Edited 853d ago )

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the PS4 version ended up at 30FPS after all this fiasco...

Seriously I expect anything these days.

ramiuk1853d ago

they will soon,prob end of 2014 i expect folk to start saying things in that sense,its just with gen just starting they need to be civil.
All MS can do is throw money at devs imo but there is one major issue for sony and its advertising(I SEE NON)

MS is on youtube,sites,tv,magazines etc.
sony needs to start doing adverts on events like UFC,sports games round world etc

vikMage853d ago

My greatest fear for next-gen is watered down games because of the lowest common denominator...

MicDude853d ago

Your name is hilarious. I seriously use the "MikeLaurry" joke every time that movie comes on lol

KakashiHotake853d ago

They would but Microsoft pays them not too.

+ Show (16) more repliesLast reply 853d ago
GribbleGrunger854d ago

That's not a response, he said that before we found out that the PS4 version was running at 60fps.

whoyouwit04854d ago

You know the Ps4 version is running at 60 fps? Just wait and see bacause you want to believe the Ps4 version runs at 60 fps.

GribbleGrunger854d ago (Edited 854d ago )

What are you talking about, whoyouwit04? I heard the dev say it twice on the Twitch stream. I doubt he's lying. Do you people actually follow the news or do you just read headlines here and there?

MRMagoo123854d ago

Once again another xbone fanboy saying "just wait and see" , we have done the waiting and seeing , the seeing has proven that every multiplat performs better on the ps4 , what are we meant to be waiting for now ?

As gribble said the dev said the ps4 version is 60fps its 100% confirmed as much as the ps4 being more powerful and selling faster is confirmed too.

Its time you xbone fanboys just accept the facts and move on with it, you will find life a lot easier that way, less stress, less anger and more fun.

Unspoken853d ago

When he claims "see right here, its running at 60 fps", this could also mean at that particular moment, what the PS4 is currently rendering on screen is 60fps. It doesnt mean the entire game is running at 60fps. They even come back and say it dips below it.

PS4 fanboys telling others they don't know how to read, then interpret articles however they want, and after getting bent out of shape when someone disagrees with their claim, point the finger and say stop getting upset?

Look up the definition of hypocrisy.

These PS4 fanboys are hilarious.

GribbleGrunger852d ago (Edited 852d ago )

So you think it probably just occasionally hits 60fps but dips below it 99% of the time? That wouldn't be 60fps then would it. It would be whatever it dips to 99% of the time. He clearly says it runs at a steady 60fps but there are times when it dips below it because of the amount of action on screen. It's 60fps on the PS4 and 30fps on the X1 ... Thems the facts.

You're a fine one to be judging the levels of hilarity.

"THERE!" shouts the dev
"What?" asks the interviewer.
"It hit 60fps and you missed it."
"Damn! Tell me when it happens again."
"Sure will," says the devs huddling closer to the TV
"So is this game 60fps?"
"Yes, on the PS4. It dips below that 99% of the time when things are rendered, but just occasionally it hits 60fps ... THERE!"
"What?"

Unspoken852d ago

See, I told you these fanboys were funny!

Actually that was pretty funny...but no, that isn't what I meant. But based off what we're told: heavy areas means it will drop below 60. Do you know how often? No? Have you ever played the game to know how many areas are considered "heavy"? No? Then making a claim that you know exactly what the frame rates are going to be is speculative, which is typical of every fanboy in this thread.

When the opposite is said of the Xbox, you guys freak out, "it will go up to 45". Do you know how often it means? No? But according to your logic, it is going to sit at 30fps 99% of the game. Speculation in favor of your preferred console. Thus the fanboy is born again.

Good guesses, but far from fact until someone actually tests it. And you further proved my point.

You guys really need to work on your critical thinking. Check out the scientific method before your emotions override your reasoning. Oh wait, we're talking to fanboys, doesn't matter what side you are on.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 852d ago
Arkardo854d ago

It's funny how every Xbone fanboy tries desperately to disbelief, the Ps4 it's more powerful End of story, there's no Esram, no Cloud, not anything to do that defies physics and mathematics.

Love your console AS IT IS, EMBRACE IT for every exclusive game that you choose to play, i think that everyone in here are able to make a choice base on their tastes, don't regret!

BUT PLEASE! stop diminishing what its obvious, please...

vigilante_man854d ago

Don't blame gamers blame MS. For months they have known the PS4 would be the more powerful but they kept the lies going on. Even after both were released they could not admit it.

I agree 100% with you. Embrace what you have and just enjoy the brilliance of next gen gaming.

xJumpManx854d ago

It took years for the ps3 to show any sort of advantage. But every SOnymite talked about the power of the cell. So please STFU about what you find funny.

FlunkinMonkey854d ago

@ xJumpManx

"It took years for the ps3 to show any sort of advantage"

Yup, and now it only took weeks to show the power of the PS4 to the XBone.

So salty, haha.

-Foxtrot854d ago

Come on Square just be honest, if it can it can...it's a selling point for one of the versions, use it.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

MatrixxGT854d ago

They want to sell as much copies as possible. Coming out and saying one version performs better on Y console would impact sales of X consoles version that still took manpower to create. This game did not make them back no where near what they wanted/thought and this is an attempt to shorten that loss, they want to sell each and every copy they can.

AngelicIceDiamond854d ago

Mash potatos are good. But mashed potatos with something extra like gravy is even better.

Hence the PS4.

hellzsupernova854d ago

If it cannot run the up Rez version at 60fps it surely won't run the true next gen tomb raider at 60fps

Mmmmm gravystation 4 indeed

GarrusVakarian854d ago (Edited 854d ago )

But the true next gen Tomb Raider will be a dedicated game FOR next gen (and PC) specifically, not a "port" that's on 5 separate platforms simultaneously.....

You are either a jealous, bitter X1 fanboy or a PC elitist...if you are the latter, then surely you should be contempt in playing it at 1440p and @ 60fps....so why are you here? Low self esteem? Need to bash on consoles to make yourself feel better?

Tomb Raider, 1080p 60fps on PS4, it's all gravy.

MRMagoo123854d ago

you got that wrong lucas most pc elitists play all there games at 240fps on their 10k res monitors , its not like the average pc gamer has a pc that runs no way near as good as a ps4, they ALL have paid $4000 for a pc.

hellzsupernova853d ago

Lol Lucas was in reply to me?

Aleithian854d ago

Perfect response.

And to think about all those arguments/debates you were involved in a few days ago about the 60fps issue - whoever it was "refusing to get this at 30fps" blah blah. I guess this just renders the whole thing moot. 1080/60. Add ketchup and enjoy.

Sarcasm854d ago

Tomb Raider: Gravy Edition on PS4.

kayoss854d ago

PS4: Tomb Raider: the Definite Edition
XB1: Tomb Raider: The somewhere between Definite and Last gen edition.

isa_scout854d ago

Hope I was supposed to read that in Homer Simpsons voice because I did...sad part is I read it aloud :)

1OddWorld854d ago

Super funny. I read GravyStation 4 and about lost it.
Thanks Lukas_Japonicus for the laugh.
Bubbles for you sir.

Trollinsky853d ago SpamShowReplies(1)
ovnipc853d ago

I own both consoles. And i think same thing will happen with thief so i pre order on ps4. Main reason i got the xone its cause of titanfall and All my gamerscore of x360. I got a ps3 yesterday ps plus its awesome. Bioshock and xcom free hell yea

+ Show (9) more repliesLast reply 852d ago
Eonjay854d ago

"framerate-gate" - Sigh...

And yes, PS4 version comes with gravy on the side.

azshorty2003854d ago

On the side? They should've just installed a Gravy button to dispense at will! mmmm..... gravy...

MysticStrummer853d ago

I like to think of the Share button as the Pass the Gravy button.

Agent_hitman853d ago

Wow that's delicious. I want smash potatoes as well..

logan_izer10854d ago

In other words, "Please still buy it on Xbox One"

JohnnyTower854d ago (Edited 854d ago )

A solid 30fps is nicer than 60fps with frame drops. 30-24fps drop wouldn't be noticeable. A 60-45fps drop would be far more noticeable. I can appreciate what the author is saying.
I'm a pc gamer too so fps arguments on consoles are moot to me.

logan_izer10854d ago

How does that make any sense at all? That's like saying a constant speed of 30mph will get you places faster than 60mph with occasion dips to 45mph

Mikelarry854d ago (Edited 854d ago )

you best not try to be making sense...it just wouldn't work here. if some can believe 30fps is better than 60fps some would even go as far as pull facts from thin air:)

JohnnyTower854d ago

You can notice a 20km drop more than a 5km an hour drop. That's the difference. No matter what the speed is.

H0RSE854d ago (Edited 854d ago )

That analogy is inaccurate. Speed of a car directly impacts your travel time, one of the prime reason for driving, game framerate does not. 60mph in a car is going to get you from point A to point B faster, however game framerate is not going to get you from the start to finish of a game any faster, nor is it going to make you complete actions any more quickly.

The only way this analogy would be accurate, would be if higher framerates somehow increased how long a second is or slowed down time around the player, allowing them to accomplish more in less time, not simply adding frames to an existing second. Framerate makes existing gameplay more fluid, speed would increase the amount of actions you could perform in a given time. You are arguing 2 completely different concepts.

That being said, the concept of "which one is better, " having a steady, lower framerate, compared to an unstable higher framerate, comes down to preference, not fact. Only when you are speaking of a competitive atmosphere where split-second timing/reflexes is crucial to success, does the advantage of 60fps become more of a necessity than a luxury.

SilentNegotiator854d ago

@JohnnyTower

So when it goes up to 45fps on the Xbox One version before dropping back to 30fps, you'll cry then too?

Xbox One version isn't constant 30fps:
http://www.videogamer.com/p...

Heisenburger854d ago

He's just saying that it would be a smoother ride, which is true. Going sixty mph, then suddenly slamming the breaks down to forty-five, then racing back up to sixty is not as "smooth".

I would prefer these developers lock the game to a rock solid sixty. This is a ps360 game. There is absolutely no excuse, aside from time and money, as to why this game shouldn't be sixty frames solid.

They obviously weren't given much time to port it.

FullmetalRoyale854d ago

@Heisenburger Yeah that's true, I suppose. The basic point is correct. I just don't know which I would prefer. Regardless of which platform, they couldn't get their game to run optimally. That means I will not give them a dime. I'm done rewarding sub-par work. Used down the road. They get nothing.

starchild854d ago

@ SilentNegotiator

Yes, if the Xb1 version does indeed have an uncapped framerate, but is lower on average than the PS4 version then, yes, it is worse. Does that make you happy?

I don't care about the Xb1. I don't own one and I don't plan to own one. But Johnny Tower is right, yet he gets massive disagrees from all the mindless fanboys that don't have a clue what they are talking about.

Uncapped, variable frame rates result in stutter, period. And that sucks. Both versions are crippled in my opinion. The only thing I hate as much as stutter is screen tearing.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 854d ago
Eonjay854d ago

Both are unlocked. So this would be inaccurate. The Xbox version can hit 45, but usually hovers back towards 30. They say that PS4 version runs at 60 most of the time but may drop a few frames during 'certain situations'.

Crystal Dynamics says: "Looking here, this is the PS4 version running at 60fps, again at 1080p," he explained. "That's awesome for that to be able to showcase because when you get your hands on it you can feel it."

I don't think people will understand as long a YouTube is lock to 30FPS. There is a huge fluidity difference.

BallsEye854d ago

Where did devs say xbox one runs at 30fps or 45 fps? You guys pulling facts out of your poopers again?

dumahim854d ago

BallsEye
It's in the first link in the posted article.

http://www.videogamer.com/p...

Flo-con854d ago

@BallsEye I could be wrong, but I think it's because our TVs work at 60Hz.
So it's better if you have a divisor of that.

MorePowerOfGreen854d ago

@dumahim

He asked when did the devs confirm that the XB1 version is currently at 30FPS

I'm sure he's seen that blog spam.

Eonjay854d ago (Edited 854d ago )

@MorePowerOfGreen

I think it is more accurate to say that they 'targeted' 30 FPS for Xbox One and 60 FPS for PS4. Because neither is locked, the hope is that neither will ever fall below 30 FPS. When Digital Foundry does their comparison in a few days we will have a better idea of what this means.

Here is their target Spec benchmark based on the PC build:
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

XBO ~ 55 FPS
PS4 ~ 70 FPS

Note that the Definitive build has graphical features not found in PC build so both PS4 and XBO should in theory perform worse than these targets.

Editd: you can see the comparison around the 2:28 mark. Also, because this is YouTube you wont really see the true representation. Sorry I don't have the raw file.

morganfell854d ago (Edited 854d ago )

@BallsEye,

You stated this above:

"Where did devs say xbox one runs at 30fps or 45 fps? You guys pulling facts out of your poopers again?"

And here, 5 hours before that post you stated this:

"It was confirmed both run at 30 fps."

Your comment was here:

http://n4g.com/news/1442403...

So you see, according to your earlier remark you apparently already had a 30FPS source. Why are you asking for one now? Were you pulling that earlier remark out of YOUR pooper?

And the 60 fps for the PS4 has been confirmed by producer Scot Amos.

http://www.videogamer.com/p...

Here is what you want to ignore:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

Notice his name is in red rather than blue like other posters. Do you have even the slightest idea what that signifies?

BallsEye853d ago

@dumahim

dude...

"Amos did not comment on the performance of the Xbox One version."

Devs never said that xbox one runs at 30 fps or so. The stuff you are reffering to is from some no name blog and no source just a "top secret unknown insider quote".

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 853d ago
WorldGamer854d ago (Edited 854d ago )

@ JohnnyTower

Wow man, that sure didn't take long. I think you are really picking and choosing what to focus on.

I believe your point is irrelevant to the larger issue of a game, that is arguably last gen in nature is able to run at almost twice the frame rate on the PS4.

Design or aesthetic preferences aside, I think even you can appreciate the implications that this revelation has on debate of PS4 vs. X1.

Brush it aside all you want and focus on what is convenient, the truth is staring you square in your face sir and/or ma'am.

Edit:

Ah, folks beat me to the punch. Guess I wasn't the only one dismayed by the apparent lack of sense demonstrated in the post above. Disturbing indeed.

The_Infected854d ago

@JohnnyTower

"A solid 30fps is nicer than 60fps with frame drops."

Keep telling yourself that. The PS4 version is much better plain and simple.

PersonMan854d ago

FRAME DROPS ARE ALWAYS BAD.

Consistency makes a difference.

If it's 60fps 100% of the time, it's nice, but if it bounces around, it results in judder and that's ugly.

I can take 30fps or 60fps, but anything in between sucks.