So why do we do what we do?
Well it really is all about the Games isn't it?
And how many of those are free on other platforms?
Yep. I still can't get over the fact that MS charge their own customers for Skype, but they give it to the Vita for free.... I don't understand how MS has the nerve to put Skype, Internet Explorer and PARTY CHAT behind a paywall, there are other things that are behind a paywall that i don't agree with, but those 3 are the most insulting in my opinion. Especially party chat.
There is something very wrong with paying for IE.
@ Eonjay There's something very wrong with using IE.
You can use your internet properly by using HDMI out,on xb1. I'm using my PC now actually on my xb1. I find internet explorer, only ok, i hate using a controller to navigate the web. Skype, they give you 100 minutes free video calls, when you go on x box live. Party is for online. Why would they have it free. It was brought in by Microsoft, for online play.
Are people buying an X1 im order to Skype and surf the web..or are they buying an X1 to game? I think people are buying systems to game and its crazy MP costs 60 dollars to use. And getting charged extra to play old titles. Strange how these COMPANIES are doing BUSINESS and not running CHARITIES.
Dat unprecedented value /s @Eonjay Yep things like that are just mind boggling. Xbox consoles almost completely useless without XBL. One thing I recently discovered is that you are locked out of *ranked* matches in Halo 3 without XBL as I had a 48hr trial. If that happens in other games too I have no words. @KNWS "Party is for online" - Complete BS. On multiple occasions I have sat on the dashboard and continued talking my friends when they played or I played a single player game while talking to my friends.
Wait what, Internet Explorer and Facebook are being a paywall?!? WTF!!!
@ KNWS and theWB27 How you guys are actually defending MS putting such things behind a paywall amazes me, MS could insult your mothers and you would find an excuse for how it was justified. "Are people buying an X1 im order to Skype and surf the web..or are they buying an X1 to game? " Irrelevant, IF someone chooses to stop gaming and make a skype call, they HAVE to pay for gold to use it. Unacceptable for a machine that prides itself on being an "all in one" entertainment system. "Party is for online." Say's who? Party chat is for whenever you feel like it. Putting party chat behind a paywall is unacceptable. "Strange how these COMPANIES are doing BUSINESS and not running CHARITIES." Last time i checked Sony was doing business too, but they still offers tons of features and content that aren't locked behind a paywall (many of which MS charge for), sigh.......and people wonder why MS aren't very liked these days.....
1. because silver sucks
MS been charging players for MP among other things for years why is this a surprise? Plus why would MS start charging Vita users? They would look more like A holes if they did. Putting everything under a paywall isn't anything new for MS period. As for the article. Wow the article could of saved time and said "because you can't do anything with out gold." Done.
Cry me a river.. Its $5 a month and its well worth it.. Get a job! Lol
@Lukas give it up. MS will continue to bank off of XBL. Sony is planning to bank off of plus and PSNOW. We need internet to play Destiny, The Division, The Crew and Titanfall oh and I'm sure more always online games will follow in the very, very near future. Don't have internet? can't play destiny. Don't have Plus? can't play Destiny MP. But yet you still need an internet connection though. ????? Same with Gold. You can't spin the things that are already happening. Especially when devs (particularly Ubisoft) already stated they want Always on DRM. We pay for the game. We pay for the service. Now we have to pay more to keep our internet going for some of these games. And we're paying for broken launch games (BF) that should of been damn near perfected WAY before release. Spinning and arguing who's paying for what doesn't matter on next gen. The point is we're paying to freakin much now.
@n4rc The argument isn't whether or not XBLG is worth it, but why MS put such trivial, basic apps and services behind a paywall.
I know man. Only a company like Microsoft could have the audacity to charge for such free features. Especially ones they personally provide for free on other platforms, even COMPETING platforms. I mean really? People are really defending this? Insulting is an understatement.
If you don't have a Gold account you can't do much or get anything. Their free games are abysmal and a slap in the face to gamers, the service is required for anything on the internet which is free everywhere else, and 90% of the exclusive features like the Arcade and Prime all fade away. What sets Xbox apart as a better experience from other mediums if they put a paywall on everything?
Lol who pays for an online subscription to use Netflix or browse the web? I pay for Live to play multiplayer games, not because I want to Skype. Stop making a big deal about being behind a paywall. PS users pay to play online too. That's what your paying for. Some could argue your not getting as good value as Live users are. Live, you get free full games to keep, access to all apps and features, and online gaming. For almost the same price on PS, you get to rent games, mostly indie and arcade titles, and get to game online. Sorry but NO ONE is paying for an online subscription so they can browse the web. Majority it consumers today have tablets, cell phones, smart TV, or PCs to use for the internet and fb. I have a smart TV and I use that for amazon prime mostly. I use my cell for for Facebook majority of time. I use my Xbox for gaming. Idk anyone who says, "i gotta look something up on Facebook. Let me start up my Xbox." Everyone complains about a paywall. How bout Sony who gave you FREE online gaming, but now you have to pay. I guess that's OK.
@Lukas So Lukas are you paying for a new console to only use Skype, IE and party chat or are you paying for a gaming console to play games? Both systems require a subscription to access multiplayer, the number one reason to have these consoles. So why the big concern over all these non-gaming features. It really is hilarious how concerned a certain group is when it comes to where the non gaming apps and features are placed on a dedicated gaming machine.
@maniacmayhem "So Lukas are you paying for a new console to only use Skype, IE and party chat or are you paying for a gaming console to play games? " Where did i say that? Learn to read, please. My point is that IF i decided to stop gaming and do those things, i would NEED to pay, whereas on the PS4 i wouldn't. @pontiac You seem to be suffering from the same 'cant read properly' syndrome as maniacmayhem. You arguing about why we buy consoles is IRRELEVANT, this is about whether or not it's right for MS putting such basic things behind a paywall when it's main competitor doesn't. And also, comparing XBLG to PS plus is futile, PS plus BLOWS XBLG out of the water. " you get to rent games, mostly indie and arcade titles, and get to game online. " Lol what? Indie titles? On PS4 yeah, but that's only been released 2 months. PS3 you had FULL RETAIL GAMES. I'd rather rent great, relatively new games than keep old 2007 games that no one cares about. Don't compare the two, it makes you look like a massive fanboy.
Free 2007 games no one cares about? Didn't know Halo 4 was made in 2007. Being the hardcore Sony fanboy you are id think you'd be a bit smarter. Guess not :'(
@pontiac Halo 4? Lmao, you wish you guys got Halo 4 with games with gold. You had Halo 3, which was released in 2007. MS would never give you guys Halo 4. As i said, comparing games with gold to PS plus is futile. You would have to be the most blind fanboy in the world to think games with gold comes anywhere close to PS plus. Right now i can turn on my PS3 and download - Devil May Cry (2013) Remember me (2013) Xcom enemy unknown (2012) Borderlands 2 (2012) Guacamelee (2013) Uncharted 3 (2011) Little Big Planet Carting (2012) And i believe the US will be getting Bioshock Infinite. As i said, futile to compare.
Well i signed up because i dont trust Sony's online, they never believed in online gaming which is important to me, i remember them downplaying it when PS3 was being released
Do you mean, you didn't trust Sony's Online when it was free? Strange logic...
Sony has constantly improved PSN and it will get better with time. In the PS2 era I may have agreed with you about Sony downplaying online gaming...they said at one time that online gaming was a fad and gimmicky. They could of kept that view, but instead they saw the value and launched PSN! They did not down play it with the PS3 it was the PS2.
So, you signed up to it purely because it costs money?
" i dont trust Sony's online" What? You don't trust starting a game up, choosing MP and having a fun time? Because the way i see it, that's the way it works on either console/service. I play on PSN everyday and it's fine, just like XBL was fine when i used that for years. Exactly the same.
I see other points of view who think everything is behind a "pay wall". On the otherhand, I have had XBL since it's beginning. The orignal XBL was for multiplayer it did not have any other features. I paid $49 a year, actually way back then MS would put free 6 month and 1 year subscription cards in random games cases. Anyways, It has grown and added party (cross game as well), apps (skype, netflix, etc), IE (not a fan of it), and other features...one of the latest is Xbox Live Games for Gold. The price increased by $10 a few years ago, but I just look at most of these features as added content. So I understand the pay wall view, but do not agree.
I too have had Live a number of years, 9 years. Its amazing all the things MS has added over the years. I don't see how anyone can tolerate PSN on the ps3. I don't know about the ps4, but with the X1 we can expect dedicated servers to go with our online play. I have never minded paying for Live. Its $60 a year, that's only $5 a month. Its still worth it to me to pay for Live.
It's supposedly fine to deflect blatant anti-consumerism with your opinion on what a next-generation service entails, or what you think is okay to pay $5 a month for. I'd like to know how anyone can possibly not even question Microsoft for taking advantage of subscribers of their premium service by padding it out with FREE services. I mean what's the point, and what do they gain - I mean REALLY gain - from restricting free features from those who just want to use them, like they can on any and every other ecosystem? An illusion of superiority, what is it? Xbox Live is an excellent service, but why ignore anti-consumerism only for your convenience? --- How many Xbone games have used dedicated servers so far? Remind me, Gozer. Do you recall that Sony PlayStation has been working with RackSpace for years in regards to cloud-technology? Do you recall that they closed a deal with RackSpace in 2013 to work with them as an 'enterprise level customer' to deploy dedicated OpenStack cloud servers for their gaming services? http://www.playstationlifes... http://www.youtube.com/watc... So you can brag about a lineup of Xbone games that can use Xbox Compute resources if they wish to, but Sony is also doing that with their services so that advantage (if it can be called that) will diminish at some point. Sony beat Microsoft to the punch in terms of cloud computing (Gaikai), when they unveiled that PlayStation Now would roll out in summer 2014, and beta starting this month. Their cloud benefits have made themselves apparent before Microsoft's, and they said less about it and have done more. They have the stronger and better gaming console, and also have the ability to leverage the cloud benefits too.
@Gozer PS3 had plenty of games with dedicated servers. it's ok that you think XBLG is worth the price but pretending that the 360 and X1 are the only consoles around with dedicated servers is just plain stupid. Only a complete fanboy would do that.
@DigitalRaptor I don't think anyone would argue that Live is superior to Ps3 PSN. No party chat is a deal breaker imo. I have no clue how much sony has invested into the cloud. But Im sure its not 11 billion like MS did. Its early in the gen, but Id be willing to wager that MS solution will be stable, reliable, and easy to use. If sony is using some underfunded 3rd party server farm, you can bet there will be an impact on online play. Maybe when PSN has had paid subscribers as long as MS we might see sony try to compete with Live.
I'm sorry for the Subscribers Losses
Hm, I can pay for YouTube on XBL or watch it for free on PC? Hard decisions... hard decisions.
I don't think people are lining up to sign up for XBL to be able to use Youtube... Much of those who subscribe, do so because they want access to MP. I've had Live since the original Xbox, and I have used the apps it has available only a handful times, mainly just to try them out, because like you said, I can access them on my PC, so even if they were offered for free, I can access hem on my PC, so I don't care. So in hindsight, many aren't paying to use Youtube (or any other app)- It is just an extra the service provides. The "paywall" argument against XBL, is situational - it applies for situations where a consumer would purchase a game console, yet not purchase a subscription plan to utilize all of its features. You can argue Sony allows much of these for free to consumers, but as you mentioned, much if not all these features can be access on PC for free, and practically everyone has a PC, even if they don't have a game console, so you're in an scenario where if you have a PC with an internet connection, you can access much of what each system offers through their services, without ever needing those systems, so regardless if they are offered free or through a subscription, users always have another method to access them, and many times, the services are better through the PC, offering things like more features and more user-friendly UI's. Oddly enough, the bread and butter of Sony's service, PS+, does require a paid subscription, and the bread and butter of that service, the free games offered, cannot be sustained without a subscription, essentially offering a "pay to play" model for consumers. Essentially, even on PC/PS it is not "free" since you need to pay for an internet connection, so you are left with a scenario where the "paywall" aspect of XBL really only effects people who have no PC, and/or internet, and were hoping to somehow access features and apps for free through a different device. That has to account for a huge percentage of consumers...
"Essentially, even on PC/PS it is not "free" since you need to pay for an internet connection, so you are left with a scenario where the "paywall" aspect of XBL really only effects people who have no PC, and/or internet, and were hoping to somehow access features and apps for free through a different device. That has to account for a huge percentage of consumers... " LOL, that makes ZERO sense whatsoever. "Pay for internet connection?" You can't even use the XB1 without broadband... so someone with dial-up wouldn't be able to use it anyway. Also, what kind of moron buys broadband but has no PC, laptop or router? You can't use wifi without a router and you can't setup a router without a PC of some sort, which would mean you couldn't use an Xbox One anyway. That last part of your argument is stretching so far it's actually tragically funny.
"LOL, that makes ZERO sense whatsoever. "Pay for internet connection?" Yes, pay for internet connection... If you want to use any of the optional apps (Youtube, Netflix, etc.) you need an internet connection, and they aren't free, so even accessing them over a PC or a PS requires a "paywall" of some type. I understand that the argument is about the added cost that XBL charges, but that is where my argument lies - why would you pay extra to access these features if they are available on PC anyway, or a TV, or a phone, etc. without the added fee attached? The bottom line is this - People get XBL or PSN to access gaming features, like multiplayer, social features, access to games - the core of the service, and both services have a fee attached - the "free stuff" aspects of eac service, are an added bonus the user may or may not use. Apps like Netflix may be free on PSN, but who buys a PS to use netflix? It's an added convenience not a definitive advantage. "I can access Netflix for free on PSN.." Okay, I can access it for free on my PC, phone, and TV, and I didn't have to spend an extra $400 to do it... You can argue that those devices cost money too, but the point is that those are devices that most people will have regardless - A PS4 is not... So like I said, the paywall aspect of XBL is situational, since the people who are paying specifically to access those paid features over their Xbox console, are a specific demographic....very specific.... You ask what kind of moron has broadband and no PC? (which you took completely out of context) Well, what kind of moron has a PC with internet, yet buys a console designed around internet functionality, whether it be features or gaming, yet doesn't get a subscription? Or perhaps more accurate, what type of person would complain about paywall features of a service, that can largely be accessed on a number of other devices in their home anyway, for no added cost? PS has a lot of free features, but who's buying PS's just for those features, and if they are, they would need an internet connection anyway, which would imply they have a PC, which would mean they could access many of them over their PC anyway, negating the purpose of buying the console in the first place. For a community that seems to be "all about games" during the reveal and launch of the new consoles, they put an awful lot of importance on non-gaming related features, even to the point where they seem to justify buying their preferred console because it offers free access to them...
I only signed up because I got a year free with my 360.
82 reasons when you could have just said "we like the service"
I saw 5 reason I need too that PS3 had free and 77 services behind a paywall that are free on any other device. More like 82 reason to blow my money. And before you fanboys get on me I have both next gen consoles but I only use my X1 for SP games. Titanfall may change that but I'm not sure yet.
So you play MP on PS4? How much does that cost again?
49.99 but I get batter value in discount and free games. Just a better service.
DC universe online, warthunder, warframe and planetside 2 all are multiplayer and do not require ps plus. Granted PS2 is not out yet but when it releases, everyone on PS4 can download play it. PS plus always has been and always will be the better service than XBLG. It's common knowledge.
The "free games" aren't really free at all, since without a subscription, you cannot access them. It is essentially a glorified Gamelfy. You can argue the quality of games GWG offers, but once a player downloads them, they are theirs to keep and play, regardless if they maintain a gold subscription or not.
Exactly, we are paying for stuff that is free allegedly. But the people making those claims who pay to play on ps4 are also paying for features they themselves claim are free. The paywall argument becomes irrelevant no matter what is free or not if you are also paying.
How are the games free if you're paying for it? Without paying for PS+...you don't get the RENTALS. They're not free. @Lukas_J Isn't everything you're trying to pass off as fact only opinions? Because Sony is rolling out a service in order for their customers to play old games and it'll cost extra money on top of PS+. So...you're ok with paying to rent relatively new games and paying extra to play old games? Cool...
Granted the games aren't free, but you know that they say..."i'd rather rent a relatively new game that is actually worth playing than pay for gold and get old as dirt games that im never going to play". And as long as you continue to keep your PS plus sub, you can keep those games....and to be honest, what reason would you have to NOT keep paying for PS plus? The value is amazing.
I don't know why people keep saying that. You aren't paying for the games directly, so they are free. The games are incentives to make you pay for the service.
"So...you're ok with paying to rent relatively new games and paying extra to play old games? Cool..." Uhhh...what? You know, sometimes i really don't understand how people interpret other peoples comments. Where did i say i don't mind paying extra to play old games? Are you assuming im going to pay for PS now subscription based off absolutely no evidence whatsoever? I see you constantly ducking and diving the issues we are bringing up about MS and replacing them with your own issues about Sony....pretty nonsensical if you ask me. "Isn't everything you're trying to pass off as fact only opinions?" Which things? The PS4 games i listed that aren't behind a paywall? The services and features that MS offer that ARE behind a paywall? Nope, those are all facts. Oh, if you were referring to this "The value is amazing."....that's fact also ;)
Everything you pay for PS+ you get for free or far cheaper on PC
this has nothing to do with ps plus dude what is with you and sony!?
For free? You mean by pirating games right? And as for far cheaper I doubt that all the games you get with plus is worth less than 50$ on PC. I'm sorry but I dont support that. I'll happily pay for Plus and download my selection of "free" games per month. That at least is a legal way to do it.
Nope I mean like Humble Bundles or Steam sales where I get to own the game unlike PS+ which is behind a yearly paywall.
"Nope I mean like Humble Bundles or Steam sales where I get to own the game unlike PS+ which is behind a yearly paywall" - I know it's great thanks to it I have lot of games and more than I ever did on my X360 but for some reason I don't know why PC is suddenly in the debate considering everyone else is comparing Console services here & not marketplaces. For what it's worth PS+ is the best value service in the console space.
I get to legally download console exclusive games on PC for less than PS+? Please tell me where that's possible.
What!?! only 82 reasons.. pffft, I was expecting at least 100!
I don't get why Netflix and other companies lets Microsoft get away with earning money on a service they do not own. It's a loss for them.
eh, maybe they get a dime or two for every sub, all those sub's add up
The title should have been 82 reasons why we are force to pay for xbox live
Try playing a MP game other than F2P on the PS4 without paying.
I hate people anyways, I'm antisocial :D The pros definately outweigh the cons with Plus, I never let my subscription run out and it's not 'cause I feel forced into it. I genuinely like the service and I don't want it to run out. It offers so much more than what it's trying to tell you that you need it for, seriously. Just in games and discounts alone it makes its price in 2 months tops. They actually give back instead of just taking. Edit: Since you said it, how are all those free to play games on the X1, and how free are they? Just curious..
I don't own an X1 and don't plan on it. Still doesn't change the fact that MP on the PS4 is behind a paywall. You can jam the disagree button and cry all day but it wont change facts. So if X1 forces you to pay, so does the PS4. Stop living in denial. Meanwhile Steam is still free.
Online gaming is one thing but how the hell is it acceptable to put Netflix behind a paywall on XBL when it is literally FREE (with sub) on every other device known to man?? You can drag Sony into this all you want but it doesn't answer this question. Just what I own: TV PS3 PS4 Vita Galaxy Note II Kindle Fire Wii iphone 4 PC All free!!!
You're right, Netflix is behind a paywall and I don't agree with that. However you're arguing over a Netflix app. I could understand if MP was free like the PS3 but those days are over. So bashing Live with the same old argument of "Live forces you to pay" while your system of choice does the same thing, that's hypocritical. Right now Steam is free and is my system of choice. If Steam should ever become a pay service. I will be first in line to boycott and complain. That's what I don't understand about you PS fans. You bashed MS for more than 10 years because of the charge but the day Sony announced a charge for the PS4, total acceptance.
@JasonKCK I'm not crying myself to sleep over it dude, I decide how I spend the money I earn. I don't care what other people are doing, and I don't game on PC and it doesn't bother me. I'm just saying I like the service, don't care about the political BS or stupid complaints. lol
I may have laughed a little bit when I read pizza hut.
I just read an article though, that app made Pizza Hut $1m in profit since its release. crazy
Not saying it's not a good app. But it's like "why you get an xbox instead of ps3?" "Well, I like the free online, games, and controller more on the ps3. But that pizza hut app!"
I just hope people buying Xbox, are not in it for most things, non-gaming.. When XBL started there was not much apps around and you still had to play and it's been like this for years. While teh Apps and new services have changed the subscription has not. The business end of things is dictating what Microsoft does and if I was Microsoft and had to make a business decision, I would keep it as is, only because they continue to make billions off XBL. Stop paying for XBL and Microsoft will take some of these apps behind the paywall. Talk with your wallets people. I, as a gamer would love for some apps to be outside the paywall but I'm not really sure why everyone is buying the Xbox. Maybe there are people that buy just to use Netflix.
Let's see I count 19 of the things on that list I get free with psn, only multiplayer is the exception which is still $10 cheaper and as for all the rest I still get it anyway through my tv service or free apps on my andriods. Let's be honest though online play is the only real reason besides maybe the free games (which psn dominates by the way) that people pay for either. Honestly anybody who would pay for skyp which is a free app or pay again to use a service you already pay for like netflix, hulu, or amazon is quite plainly an idiot. I honestly have no idea how ms gets away with it or why their users let them, even defend them over it. It seems like it should be illegal, as in extortion or something to charge people for things they pay another company for already especially since any other device that has the service has it free to use. Psn is better, not saying live is bad but you xbox fanboys