510°
Submitted by Rashid Sayed 338d ago | news

Project CARS Dev: PS4 Single Core Speed Slower Than High-End PC, Splitting Renderer Challenging

Slightly Mad Studios' Andy Tudor on developing Project CARS on the PS4. (Project CARS, PS4)

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Mikey32230  +   338d ago
nothing new
#1 (Edited 338d ago ) | Agree(61) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
Hatsune-Miku  +   338d ago | Well said
Bring on the apology early for not making their game the best possible on ps4 meanwhile Drive Club hoovers the floor with project car.
PeaSFor  +   338d ago | Funny
on nooooooo, high end pc are better than a 399$ fully functional system, OH THE DRAMA!!!
decrypt  +   338d ago
@PeasFor

PS4 is pretty much a low end PC. The CPU is very low end infact. The GPU is some what ok but still low end, in fact it would get out performed by 170usd parts out there.

Funny when people mention PS4 as 400usd, yet forget all the other hidden costs and nickle diming that come with it. Compare apples to apples, A PC would be much cheaper all things considered.
#1.1.2 (Edited 338d ago ) | Agree(37) | Disagree(171) | Report
ZodTheRipper  +   338d ago
This reads like
"We expected a 399$ console to run like a 799$ PC so porting our game is a challenge now"
#1.1.3 (Edited 338d ago ) | Agree(72) | Disagree(8) | Report
r2oB  +   338d ago | Helpful
@ decrypt

What are the hidden costs of buying a console? You pay $399 for a PS4 (or whatever the cost is in an applicable country), and that's enough for you to play games. Everything else is optional.

As far as building a PC. You need a case, HDD, RAM, power supply, CPU, GPU, Motherboard, Kb/m and/or controller, and an OS. All of which has to be purchased (whether all at once or separate). Building a bare minimum PC with all the parts necessary to play next gen games functionally, at a $399 price point is next to impossible.
reynod  +   338d ago
@Zod

You could easily have a PC priced around 500usd, featuring a real desktop CPU.

Clearly going for tablet CPUs was due to cost reasons. Looks like a corporate profit decision to me.
InTheLab  +   338d ago
R2oB beat me to it but I'd like to add that all of what he listed will end up costing something closer to $700.

A $400 PC that is comparable with a PS4 does not exist. The simple fact is, the OS, GPu, and CPU will eat up the budget and you'd have to buy the ugliest, sh**iest tower imaginable.

You PC guys continue to push this "low end" specs crap but always lie about the cost.
_QQ_  +   338d ago
No it doesn't...
@dycrpt so true
@zod change that 799$ to 499$ and you are on point.
theshonen8899  +   338d ago
Christ, over-reacting much??
The man was asked what he thought about development on PS4 and he gave an honest and thorough answer.
decrypt  +   338d ago
@r20b

Console hidden costs:

Pay more per game 10-20usd (this alone makes a high end gaming rig cheaper than consoles in 3-4 years of game as the PC literally goes free, since console makers profit of higher software prices. remember hardware is nothing without the software).

Pay to go online (50 usd a year, free on PC).

Lack of BC (how does it feel not being able to play any of the games you bought last gen? yea have fun rebuying the old console every time it fails just so you can play your old library. Or maybe end up forfeiting thousands of usd of games bought last gen).

No mods (pay for DLCs instead)

Nickle dimming (check out comapnies like EA charging console gamers for DLCs again on BF4 which they already bought on previous consoles, no such thing on PC, since we dont have gens, every time we upgrade, every game we ever bought gets a free upgrade, no need to get ripped by coorporates).

Lack of discounts such as ones seen on Steam or GMG and various other online retailers.

The list is really unending.

In regards to startup costs of PCs, you really have to look at PCs as a long term investment. Once you invest into it, you dont go about buying Casings, HDDs, Dvd drives, Mouse keyboard, OS, PSU every time you upgrade. Which makes your next upgrade in 4-5 years very cost effective. Hell it comes for free even if you want to build a new rig with all the money saved on cheaper games.

Console gaming being cheap is a myth, hyped by the media which is funded by these large corporations. Who again shoulder those costs on the console gamers.
#1.1.9 (Edited 338d ago ) | Agree(19) | Disagree(50) | Report
Evilsnuggle  +   338d ago
Decrypt
I find it so funny when PC f anBoys bash g ame consoles. The PC fanBoys are jealous Of game consoles popularity. The attention Consoles get and consoles are accepted by the mainstream unlike PC gaming. No matter how PC fanBoys twist the facts. PC and consoles are Much different. The PS4 can perform on par With a high end PC. The PS4 is a close system and can be programmed for specifically and optimized Unlike PC . hundreds of different GPU's PC . PS4 has low level API access to the GPU Unlike PC mantle to anyone? Also PC have a huge OS that hinders performance windows. The PS4 has a small OS that doesn't hinders performance. That why PC developers the want and need for Linux gaming OS aka steam OS. The PS4 has a mid level GPU. That equals and performs like a higher end GPU Because lower overhead and better API performance Than a pc. Here are two articles from digital foundry that confirm that The PS4 performs to the equivalent of a pc with a Core i7 in combination with Nvidia's powerful GTX 680 . That is a $350 CPU and a $500 GPU match by as $400 PS4. That is a $450 different pc fanBoys make me laugh so insecure http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... and http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
Atielite
I would not use battlefield 4 as an example everyone knows the the partnership EA and Microsoft have .EA would never let the PS4 have double the resolution than XboNe .
#1.1.10 (Edited 338d ago ) | Agree(41) | Disagree(15) | Report
r2oB  +   338d ago | Well said
@ decrypt

Those are variables. I can bring similar benefits to console gaming.

You mention price of games, but have failed to consider the benefit of console games. For one, with PS+ you can play many great games for one cost. This year alone I had access to Dragons Dogma Dark Arisen, Sleeping Dogs, Hitman Absolution, Binary Domain, Kingdom of Amular, Grid 2, Borderlands 2, Far Cry 3, NFS Most Wanted, plus more multiplats and indies, for the price of PS+ ($50, but I got it on sale for much less). How much would those games cost to play on PC? Could you play all those games for less than $50? Not to mention with game sharing on PlayStation consoles you can get new releases for $30 (sometimes less). Console gaming (PlayStation platforms) does not have to be as expensive as you make it out to be.

What about the hidden cost of PC gaming? My $600 PS3 that I bought in 2006 can still play new releases. What about that $600 PC that was built in 2006? Can it run current games properly? Does it meet minimum requirements? Probably not. Not enough cores? Have to buy a new CPU. Not enough RAM? Need more sticks. Not enough VRAM? Time for a new GPU. GPUs require more power? Time for a new PSU. etc

The point I am trying to make is that there can be hidden costs to console gaming and PC gaming. Its all a matter of perspective. when you start adding variables its no longer an apples to apples comparison.

Its funny you mock backwards compatibility as a disadvantage but overlook compatibility in general. You get to play all your old games on PC, but what about current games that don't get released on PC. How was GTA V? Oh that's right, its not available on PC. See, things work both ways. My point? There are advantages/disadvantages to both console and PC gaming.

BTW, I am a console and PC gamer.
decrypt  +   338d ago
@Evilsnuggle

Whats to be jealous of? the rampant shooter after shooter? or paying to play online, No BC, No mods or new consoles not having a games library lol (where PC has thousands on its list from 30 years of BC).

Hardly much at all.

65 million users on Steam alone thats hardly a minority :)

@r20b

Check Steam & GMG discounts, you could permanently own that many games instead of just having access to them.

AAA games like Witcher 2 can be had for as little as 5usd, how many will 50 usd get you ;-) not hard to count about 10 of them.

A 1000usd PC created back when PS3 launched equipped with a 8800GTX will easily play current gen games in 1080p, Where PS3 will play at 720p.

Again money saved on games alone would ensure the PC gamer can make a completely new high end rig in 5 years time for free, essentially making the 1000usd PC a cheaper investment than the PS3.
#1.1.12 (Edited 338d ago ) | Agree(13) | Disagree(32) | Report
reynod  +   338d ago
@r2oB

I think decrypt pretty much covered everything.

Though i got to ask, since when does a PS3 last 7 - 8 years. Most people would need to go through at least 2-3 PS3s to last that long. Add all of that up its easily the price of a high end PC, without any of the benefits.

Meanwhile a 1000usd PC will easily last 5-7 years with a little maintenance. Add in whatever decrypt said and the cost argument is in the PCs favor.
Evil_Abed  +   338d ago
DriveClub loses that fight no contest. Please do not make that comparison again, you are embarrassing yourself.
PeaSFor  +   338d ago | Well said
@decrypt the F are you talking about, the number of active peoles on steam peaked at 6.9millions(NOT 65 millions).(wich is barely what the Dreamcast sold...talk about being..a majority...lol the day you will see 155 millions of pc gamers on Steam, we will talk about majority/minority)
http://steamcommunity.com/p...
been on steam since 2004 and the numbers you pulled out of your ass is ridiculously false.

btw, talking about Steam, i bet you had a lot of fun playing Red Dead Redemption, The Last Of Us, Demons Souls, GTAV and Heavy Rain on it....OH WAIT you CANT, thats why if you are a credible gamer, you wont be in a "pc only" circle jerk and own consoles too.
#1.1.15 (Edited 338d ago ) | Agree(29) | Disagree(8) | Report
frostypants  +   338d ago
@decrypt, no, the GPU in the PS4 is the equivalent of a mid-range PC GPU at worst. God man, you're like N4G's official wellspring of derp.
#1.1.16 (Edited 338d ago ) | Agree(13) | Disagree(5) | Report
PeaSFor  +   338d ago
to put things in perspective, take a look at the MOST PLAYED AND POPULAR GAMES on Steam

Peak number
651,640 Dota 2
88,315 Team Fortress 2
76,822 Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
57,249 Sid Meier's Civilization V
49,415 Football Manager 2014
48,948 The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
37,640 Counter-Strike
42,614 DayZ
36,851 Starbound
28,736 Counter-Strike: Source
36,567 Garry's Mod
23,065 Total War: ROME II
22,405 Terraria
18,075 Warframe
15,428 Far Cry® 3
16,547 Football Manager 2013
13,985 Rust
16,966 Borderlands 2
12,879 War Thunder
14,428 Path of Exile
10,121 XCOM: Enemy Unknown
11,256 Neverwinter
11,804 Call of Duty: Ghosts Multiplayer

all the stats you need http://store.steampowered.c...
unless you are really into MOBA games, its not super impressive for "pc only circlejerk master race", nothing worthy to beat your chest like a gorilla like so many pc elitist imply.
#1.1.17 (Edited 338d ago ) | Agree(20) | Disagree(13) | Report
saumer  +   338d ago
@r2ob I

I bought a ps4 on launch day at costco. I got an extra controller and PS+ card and it cost me $520 with/without tax, I dont remember. Then I got a warranty because last gen I ended up having my 360 die 2 times and my ps3 die once after 4 years(never replaced it).

All totaled it was around $600.

I returned it a few weeks later. Because when I did the math, I could upgrade the computer i've been playing on for 6 years. Buy an i5 processor and motherboard for $250 with tax from micro center and a Geforce 770 for $350 from anywhere.

Totaled: $600

Then I could play all the computer games I've stock piled since my ps3 died and play newer games as well.

I might get a PS4 again in a few years when the price goes down.
saumer  +   338d ago
@frosty It is a little better than a 7850, which is a lower middle range card.
Larry L  +   338d ago
I would just like to point out to decrypt that modding is totally possible on consoles, and is actually pretty easy, it's just that developers and probably more-so pulishers (and most of the time console manufacturers as well) just pretty much disallow it for 2 major reasons. 1) they don't want the headaches of lawsuits.......which they wouldn't lose, but they would still have to spend money in the courts. And 2) console hardware and software is all officially licensed "stuff", which they have to at least TRY and guarantee works, which you can't do with mods.

Epic Games and Sony though thumbed their noses at that conventional wisdom in 2007 with the PS3 version of Unreal Tournament 3 which had full PC mod support. And just as the 2 major reasons above would predict, when PC modders ported basically the entire multi-player of Gears of War to PC (Halo 2 and 3 as well)........as soon as someone hit the {Cook for PS3] button in the Unreal Engine 3 toolset with that Gears and Halo content, and people like me were playing Gears and Halo on PS3......M$ was trying their damnedest to go after Epic and modders with C&D orders and threats of lawsuits.

Both Epic and alot of modders kinda bowed down to M$ on this issue too, agreeing to not allow that particular stuff to be posted or even talked about in the mod forums..........but that content is still out there to be found for people who actually care or know about it.

Not to mention, some modders were making content that was so hardware intensive even for PCs, that when you'd try loading up the content on the PS3, it would just lock up the system, or cause other kinds of issues in the game. (amazingly modders got PhysX based content working on PS3 mods when it was supposed to be impossible because PS3 didn't support it, lol) So both reasons against modding on consoles are pretty valid in business terms.

With how cool mods were for UT3 on PS3, BioWare back in like 2008 said it was possible and they were considering allowing mods in their Dragon Age: Origins toolset to be cooked for PS3 as well. But then they just decided against it in the end. Probably because of the stink M$ was putting up about the issue behind the scenes with Epic and mod communities.

So full PC modding is possible on console, companies just don't want to deal with the legal BS. But the one real experiment in true console game modding done by Epic and Sony; Unreal Tournament 3, was pretty successful........even if the game itself wasn't so much, lol.

Since it was the only console game in history to do it, I fully expected UT3 to be one of those rare collector's item games that go up in value...........yeah.........t hat didn't happen. But I've still got my copy and I still try out new mods once in a while over 6 years later.
#1.1.20 (Edited 338d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(4) | Report
HammadTheBeast  +   338d ago
@Decrypt

Pretty hypocritical mentioning hidden costs. You always throw out the "a $170 GPU > $399 PS4", what happened to that? You failed to mention the cost of building a PC to run the gpu. You fail to mention the lack of OS. The lack of antivirus system. The lack of peripherals. etc.
dantesparda  +   338d ago
Anybody who didnt know that the PS4/X1 CPUs are weak, really hasnt been paying attention.

But more interesting is this, "There are still some bottlenecks to work out with memory flushing to garlic, even after changing to LCUE, the memory copying is still significant.”

So does this mean that the PS4 doesnt have hUMA then?
Dasteru  +   338d ago
Troll harder.

The texture detail on Project Cars is easily double that of Driveclub, the environmental effects and physics are far better, the lighting is far better. Project Cars isn't even out of beta yet and it already looks several times better than Driveclub.
its_JEFF  +   338d ago
@decrypt

I would really like an honest answer to this. When Battlefield 4 was released on the PS4 and the PC, what was the price? What wS the price of NFS Rivals on PC on day 1? Cause I keep hearing PC guys saying that EVERY game on PC is CHEAPER. But, when is it cheaper? and are these games the AAA titles?

if those titles were/are $10-20 cheaper, a launch, I would like to know.
starchild  +   337d ago
Wow the sony fanboys on n4g are a freaking joke. It doesn't matter how ridiculous a comment is that a Sony fanboy makes he will get massive amounts of agrees. The rest of the gaming community laughs at you guys.

@ Larry l

One of the biggest reasons many types of graphical mods wouldn't work on a console is because console games are generally always pushing the console hardware as hard as the developer was able to manage. There is no headroom to work with. Many mods on PC require more performance than the base games do.
Volkama  +   337d ago
@Theshonen He was actually asked specifically what the challenges are, and gave a pretty gentle answer.

@PeaSFor Steam had 6.9 concurrent users. That's 6.9 million people logged on at one time.
http://www.gamespot.com/art...

On the off-topic that's fired up here: Of course a PC at $400 isn't going to match a console the same price. Consoles are mass-produced and sold at ~cost. They make their money elsewhere. When you build a PC each component comes from a vendor wanting a profit.

Having said that, PCs are certainly cheaper ones you've made that initial investment, and yes potentially much better performers if you want to invest more.

Really nothing worth arguing and trolling about.
Anarki  +   337d ago
No way... a console CPU being slower than a HIGH end PC. In other news, sh*t found in the woods police have traced it to a bear.
thereapersson  +   337d ago
@ Larry L

I still break out my copy of UT3 on PS3... but then slowly pine for the ability to use my Dual Shock 4. Imagine the improved accuracy!

Anyway, you bring up a good point about the ability to mod console games. It would be quite simple and effective if developers would allow it. UT3 was a perfect example of this, as you noted.
warczar  +   337d ago
@decrypt

So, I actually went to steam to see if anything you were saying about pricing was true. Come to find out you are full of shit. Just for Kingdoms of Alamur and Hitman: Absolution you are looking at 42usd, if we factor in all the games PS+ has given away just this year steam just can't compare. Dragon's Dogma isn't even available on steam. You should do at least some base research before speaking from your ass.
ATiElite  +   338d ago
Amazing!

When Devs kept saying a PS4 is like a High End PC Fanboys jumped all over it.

"$400 high end PC yeeeeeh PS4 is a God" -----I saved this quote from an actual N4G user

So now a Dev comes out telling the TRUTH and says "PS4 clock speed NOT as fast as a High end PC"

So now the fanboys are like:

"Bring on the apology early for not making their game the best possible on ps4 meanwhile Drive Club hoovers the floor with project car."

"on nooooooo, high end pc are better than a $399 fully functional system, OH THE DRAMA!!!"

"What they really saying is were crap at optimizing code"

The PS4 is great but ALL that High End PC stuff is crap because a high end PC not only has a 3.20ghz clock speed but also has MULTI-THREADING!

Also a High End PC runs Battlefield 4 at 1080p not 900p!

who here has ACTUALLY played Drive Club? NO ONE!
Project Cars alpha is playable on the PC and it's a fantastic Game with awesome Physics and Great NPC A.I.

So I seriously doubt Drive Club will produce better visuals than Project Cars and lets NOT forget that other things are involved in a good game because if Drive Club LACKS Real time Damage and Advanced Physics then D.C. will be no better than Forza 5 or any other Second Rate Racer.

Slightly Mad Studios will make Project Cars the BEST Racer on all platforms, XB1, WiiU, PS4, PC because what they are doing is pushing the Racer Genre to the Next Level.

So NO matter your platform of choice Project Cars will be the BEST RACER on it.

So fall 2014 consolers will get Project Cars.
dmitrijs88  +   338d ago
modern cpus have 4ghz and more and up to 8 threads.
Funky Town_TX  +   338d ago
Only a fool would think that a PS4 could compete with a PC in terms of power.
strickers  +   338d ago
I've played Drive Club. What he hell are you babbling about?
HammadTheBeast  +   338d ago
Dude. You're comparing $400 to $1000+. Relax.

PS4 outperforms any PC of comparable cost.
starfox079  +   337d ago
Ive said it all along wiiu multi-core cpu is core for core way more powerful than ps4 's jaguar cores and i mean the main cpu core in wiiu is 3.5 times that of ps4's single core FACT.
dmitrijs88  +   338d ago
doesnt matter if old or new, he is only stating obvious.
how can u compare amd mobile cpu to i5/i7?
ATiElite  +   338d ago
How can you compare ANY AMD CPU to an Intel LMAO!

I mean you can but Intel will just CRUSH it!

AMD CPU's have a hard time matching up with Intel's OLD Gen CPU's and don't even bother comparing a AMD to a NEW Intel.

2 Gen Old Intel > NEw Gen AMD
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Whitey2k  +   338d ago
@ atiElite yes thats true but u do realize that amd makes far more better apu's then intel apu

Intel > ati = cpu's
Ati > Intel = apu's
PSX04  +   338d ago
WTF ... are you kidding us ??? what is the new in comparing 2000$ device with 399$ device
saumer  +   338d ago
I bought a ps4 on launch day at costco. I got an extra controller and PS+ card and it cost me $520 with/without tax, I dont remember. Then I got a warranty because last gen I ended up having my 360 die 2 times and my ps3 die once after 4 years(never replaced it).

All totaled it was around $600.

I returned it a few weeks later. Because when I did the math, I could upgrade the computer i've been playing on for 6 years. Buy an i5 processor and motherboard for $250 with tax from micro center and a Geforce 770 for $350 from anywhere.

Totaled: $600

If I didn't have parts to work with from a previous pc it would have run around 750.

So no, we aren't comparing it to a $2000 pc. We're comparing it to one that is about the same price, only much more powerful.
saint_seya  +   338d ago
saumer how you do to play with only a motherboard, gpu-processor?
Oh i thought u needed ram, coolers, power supply, mouse, keyboard, hhd, case....
Its like saying i created my own ps4, i bought a blu ray tray and an apu, i can play now ps4 games!
HammadTheBeast  +   338d ago
Saumer.... you upgraded. Not the same thing. At all.
hellzsupernova  +   338d ago
You don't say a CPU that's say $500 is faster the a system costing $400 for everything you gotta be kidding me. The wiiu version must be a nightmare then
hollabox  +   338d ago
This console generation seem wired. Both consoles got a CPU downgrade after 7-8 years Sony CPUs becomes twice as slow. XB1 CPU might be the same speed as the X360 or slightly slower depending which Floating Point performance source you believe. Even the GPUs seem average, usually new consoles GPUs are on par or exceed high end graphics cards. These GPUS seem like an mixture of AMD/ATI last gen GPUs with a couple of current GPUs sprinkles.

Both companies should have stuck with IBM for their CPUs, AMD has been building sub par to average CPUs for about 4 years now when compared to INTEL. AMD sold them on the APU design which is nice if you plan on sticking these processors in tablets.
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Ju  +   338d ago
The FPU part in the PS4 (float + SSE) does about 100GF/s which isn't that bad, actually, but half what the Cell does. The Cell which mostly using vector instruction using the SPUs could top at 200GF/s. But at the same time, most of what was done on SPUs can be done by compute now, which is a magnitude above what the PS3 can handle. Also, the PS4('s CPU) performs much better in multi-threaded applications; obviously because it has more coherent cores and an OOP instruction pipe. And last but not least, it has shared addresses between CPU/GPU which makes a huge impact for all sort of CPU/GPU interaction (vertex arrays (draw call overhead), texture storage (incl. streaming), filtering, and plenty more - actually you'd be surprised how much this is almost true for the PS3 as well because the RSX has full access to XDR). That said, in brute force calculations the PS3 would probably beat the PS4 - but at the same time, this is only true if you have nothing to render.
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hollabox  +   338d ago
@Ju
I get all of that but when the GPU gets maxed developers normally looks for performance tricks from the CPU. CPUs I don't think will be able to hold up to the test of time if this generation last longer than 6 years. I can see if the GPU were much more higher end than what MS and Sony dropped in, but I understand the price to performance ratio goes out the window when you start looking at top of the line video cards. Both Sony and MS did not want start off losing money per console sold like they did last generation.
starfox079  +   337d ago
Yet a single core on wiiu handles the pc version at near max ???
droc1123  +   337d ago
Agree...PS4 will never come out of the box better then a high end PC... But the fact that it is being compared is really saying something about PS4 and the work Sony put into it.
starfox079  +   337d ago
X86 cpu tech is easy to max out and with weak jaguar cores it's showing if you ask me on WiiU they have 99% of everything the high end pc has on 1 core on ps4 they are struggling with 4 cores ??? this guy is a pre alpha tester for the wiiu version and says it makes a i5 sweat and they havn't even started optimizing yet ????

http://thewiiu.com/topic/15...
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Hellsvacancy  +   338d ago
"compared to a high-end PC"

I want to hit myself in the face when I read dumb things like this
#2 (Edited 338d ago ) | Agree(49) | Disagree(8) | Report | Reply
Ol_G  +   338d ago
I think it's understandable seeing how every ps4 multiplat is compared with high end pc versions
It doesn't take away from the fact this game will look awesome no matter what you play it on
DoctorJones  +   338d ago
I feel the same when I read dumb comments like yours, because that's out of context -

'On being asked if there was a challenge in development due to different CPU threads and GPU compute units in the PS4, Tudor stated that, “It’s been challenging splitting the renderer further across threads in an even more fine-grained manner – even splitting already-small tasks into 2-3ms chunks. The single-core speed is quite slow compared to a high-end PC though so splitting across cores is essential.

“The bottlenecks are mainly in command list building – we now have this split-up of up to four cores in parallel. There are still some bottlenecks to work out with memory flushing to garlic, even after changing to LCUE, the memory copying is still significant.”'

He was asked a question and gave a reasonable answer. What would you rather he said? Would this be better? -

'Oh there was no challenge at all, the ps4 is so powerful it basically makes the game itself. It's a supercomputer, we've had no problems whatsoever. Greatness awaits!'
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Orbilator  +   338d ago
What they really saying is were crap at optimizing code
vulcanproject  +   338d ago
No, what they are saying is that PS4's tiny tablet x86 cores are very slow compared to a full size desktop core like an AMD FX or Intel i5 series.

What they are saying is what most people realise- splitting up tasks in a highly multi threaded CPU pipeline is a lot harder than just having fewer, faster bigger cores.

If nothing else PS3 should have taught people this years ago, although it should be easier to pull off on these little Jaguar cores .

Developers have always preferred systems this way on most scenarios. For example a large big chunk of fast memory is easier to work with than more, but smaller itty bit cut up pieces.
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Einhert  +   338d ago
When really it is just the PS4 does not have the processing juice to run the game effectively and do all the computations of an actual simulator.
Chrischi1988  +   338d ago
They must be pretty good at optimizing. It is said, that Project Cars runs on 1 core of the Wii U and all physics work well and all. But you know what, Wii Us CPU has only an 4 stage pipeline, that is pretty powerful.
hano  +   338d ago
Yeah. Despite the crap WiiU goes through i'm amazed by how smooth games run on two screens. I bet the controller adds a lot of overhead.
Ju  +   338d ago
What that means that their renderer is just extremely inefficient cluttering the pipe with to many draw calls. What about batching? Just shows that their data are not optimized much and get thrown at the CPU because they can - which might just work on a PC with a brute force raw CPU power you have since the PCIe has to wait 90% of the time anyway. Yes, this is a testament of an inefficient engine. Nothing new, really. A lot of (PC) developers simply don't account for multi threading - especially in the render pipeline - because APIs on PC (OSs) don't support multi-threaded rendering (exception is Mantle).

And, yes, of course. Devs coming from the PS3 are somewhat familiar with Sony's APIs. But Multithreading isn't really used there, either. The rendering API on the PS3 isn't multi threaded - but, yeah, the concepts of "jobs" is there and the understanding things have to run on the SPUs to perform. But these guys are not coming from the PS3.
#4.4 (Edited 338d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(14) | Report | Reply
decrypt  +   338d ago
"But these guys are not coming from the PS3."

Well that can be said for 90% of the industry. Aside the few Sony houses, developers hardly ever made use of the PS3s SPUs.

Call it lazy whatever, people like yourself spent the entire PS3 gen HOPING, devs would take advantage of that cumbersome tech.

This is just round 2, history has a way of repeating itself lol. Funny you yourself admit its hard going back to 720p once you witness 1080p in action, yet all of last gen you seemed fine with it. I guess you can keep the HOPE :) games will again just run better on similarly priced PCs, which again wont be coming with all the nickle & diming consoles come with.

PS did you buy that BF4 DLC again?

Edit: Maybe a gen later when you witness games from Sony actually having some real AA, will you say its hard going back to blurry AA filters lol.
#4.4.1 (Edited 338d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(9) | Report
hennessey86  +   338d ago
"But these guys are not coming from the PS3."
test drive ferrari racing legends, shift one and two were all developed by sms on ps3
Ju  +   338d ago
"Well that can be said for 90% of the industry"...really? Which industry is that? The one who released games on the PS3 for the last 7 years? The rest are newbies.

And, no. Didn't buy BF DLC again. I am still waiting for EA to fix this. TBH, playing Blacklight more lately.

AA is fine on the PS4. Not sure what you are talking about. Full 1080 trumps non 1080 (I had some play time on the One the other day. I made the right decision).
#4.4.3 (Edited 338d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(8) | Report
Chrischi1988  +   338d ago
If that game is said to run on only one core on the Wii U and the Wii U being soooo much less powerful, how can you feel save saying, they use anything inefficient or did not optimize? How does it work on the Wii U then? Or is Wii U not soooooo weak, as most people claimed the whole year?
Ju  +   338d ago
WiiU has 3 cores. And I don't consider the WiiU a next gen console. It's on PS360 level with a slight advantage (but slower memory). Actually, how does it work on the WiiU? If it only runs on one core on the WiiU, yes, I would call this a confirmation to what I just said (which I doubt is the case, though).

I think it is a typical PC engine. Using a typical PC style render setup. This is one render thread throwing draw calls at the API (OpenGL or DirectX). Neither can render multi threaded (Direct X a little). Such an engine will not perform on consoles. Simple. And I have no idea how they optimize their render pipeline. You can do quite a bit on an i7 running brute force but optimizing meshes, reducing draw calls is something quite vital on consoles; you can render multi threaded on the PS4, btw (obviously). I guess what they are doing now is on the fly batch processing using multiple cores to "merge" draw calls to get the performance from consoles.
windblowsagain  +   338d ago
Maybe people should read.

It needs splitting more onto the cores, that's why they are multicore, but slower speed.

But it'll be interesting, because GT7 will be 60fps.

PC should be 60fps.
KakashiHotake  +   338d ago
If their struggling on PS4 then it must be hell making the game for Xbone720p.
sak500  +   337d ago | Well said
Here comes teh sdf bottomfeeder trying to counter ps4s bashing by doing it on xb1. All this B$ hype of ps4 being superior than xb1 without any proof is same story from last gen of ps3 against xb360. And before that p2 was supposed to power nuclear reactors and bring toy story graphics to games for masses. Every sdf lapdog is told to recite "sony console is superior to any other console out there" every night so that they can sleep happy.

None of the above had been proved in last gen or before and will be same case this gen. All MPs will look same on both consoles at least ps4 wont be struggling to be on par with xb1 like it did last gen.

Also whenever pc only gamers bash the consoles the rabit sdf attacks them by comparing low priced console against 1000s$ worth of pc equipment. However they fail to realize or lack the brain power that most pcs' built 5~6 years back have already recovered their cost with lower TCO. They can just buy a 200$ vga to be able to have decent gaming experience above the consoles. Even though i'm now xb fanboy but still have my core i5 quad overclocked to 3.6ghz/4 gb DDR3 @ 1700mhz and 2 x 5870X1gbDDR5 cards built back in 2010 pc ready for any pc only game. Even few years down i can just remove the vgas and put in the latest card at $300 and be better off then these consoles. But i love my xb1 which i paid 850$ for ;)
#6.1 (Edited 337d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
KakashiHotake  +   337d ago
Man, your just a wirl wind of feelings, I don't even know where to start. Well for starters I do most of my gaming on PC as well but I am very much a PlayStation fan and will be getting a PS4 next year once the really good games start to roll out. To reiterate my point, this wasn't a debate of graphics, rather it's a debate of game development. PS3 was harder to develop for last gen and this time it is the Xbox One that is the more difficult of the two, due to it's limited resources and bottleneck architecture.

Most of the time I make fun of Xbox One but really it's all in good fun. Console wars are no different than any other competitive sport, no one wants to see their favorite team lose. Right now PS4 is winning and me being a fan I couldn't be happier. Xbox had their turn and dominated the US for several years. At the moment PS4 is kicking their tails, but as have been mentioned many times already, this is a marathon not a sprint. Only PS4 has one heck of a head start this time.
pete007  +   338d ago
nothing new here. dont know even why they develop for consoles besides Hill billys Money.
everybody knows consoles are inferior products, when compared to pc. now what stuns me are the fanboy comments defending the contrary or comparing console games to project cars on its full glory.
you have nothing comparable to this game on its final release and for a long time period. tecnically this game is top of top. you can get granturismo with all cinema tricks, no aa, no track detail and still way behind this masterpiece. go to wmd portal/forums and find what they are doing. its fantastic and never before done on a racing game. thats why they went mass development way. we crowd support it, no publisher sets rules. and thats great
Killa78  +   338d ago
*facepalm*
parentsbasement  +   338d ago
FAKE!!!!!
Bolts-N-Rays1109  +   338d ago
And water is wet...
fullmetal297  +   338d ago
It's been known in the PC community that Intel i series CPU are more efficient in single core processes than AMD CPUs.
decrypt  +   338d ago
Lol thats not true, AMD just comes with more cores. Doesnt mean AMD is more efficient.

Even then more cores dont mean more performance. Quad core Intel CPUs pretty much wipe the floor with AMD octo cores. Specially its not easy loading up all the cores. Hence in very favorable scenarios can AMD CPUs put up a fight, usually Intel just runs circles around them.
fullmetal297  +   338d ago
I didn't say that at all. I said Intel processors are much more single core efficient than AMD processors. The newest Haswell chips has only 88W TDP and far superior clock speed to performance ratio than Piledriver. A Piledriver processor has to be clocked passed 4.0GHZ to even meet an stock clocked i5 Ivybridge.
MidnytRain  +   338d ago
fullmetal297

Why are you repeating yourself? He obviously completely misread it the first time, lmao
timlot  +   338d ago
But,but hUMA? What about him? lol
Ju  +   338d ago
These guys have no hUMA, isn't that obvious?
hano  +   338d ago
Stupid ps fanboys on the defensive

the guy wasnt criticizing, he is a programmer and was stating facts. He's talking about challenges. Consoles need a whole lot of optimizing.
DEATHSTROKE-cro-  +   338d ago
stupid ps fanboys ?
you mean, stupid pc master race fanboys who approve this articles every goddamn day.

wow, a expensive pc runs game better than 400$ console.
EXVirtual  +   338d ago
Exactly.
The fact that they have to run around this site stating the obvious (which everyone knows about) to justify playing on the PC really shows you how insecure this 'Master Race' is.

Of course Project Cars will run better on PC.
jlo  +   338d ago
No. PS4 fanboys spend their whole lives on here making fun of the Xbox One. Calling it weak.

But when the PC guys give you a taste of your own medicine, and call you weak, suddenly you don't like it?!

Hypocrites. Bully likes to bully, but doesn't like it when he gets bullied back.
specialguest  +   338d ago
@jlo

well said. And when it doesn't even involve the xb1 in the article, they still managed to deflect the bashing towards the xb1 with a bunch of fanboy mob mentality agrees. See comment #6 for example.
EXVirtual  +   338d ago
@jlo, the PS4 and XBO are in the same category. Consoles. So it's reasonable to compare them. Fair enough, some people do post 'Xbone is weak!' every other comment, but not all of us do.
We all know that the PC is more powerful. We've been reading that comment after comment, since the reveal of the PS4 (from my experience at least).

As if Xbox fanboys don't say that the PS4 has no games.
Like I said before, it's no surprise Project Cars will run better on PC.
Chrischi1988  +   338d ago
PC gamers just do the same as you PS fans do all the time. You bash every other console, just because of one fact, that the PS4 has more power, does it offer anything else, which is much better, than the performance of the console? On this site, this one fact is all what mattered for PS fans, to bash every console, why cant a PC fan not say the truth, if graphics is all that counts, why not get a PC, because there you get what it really should be. I am not trying to bash anything here, but I think it is hilarious, how you guys always bash every console and if a PC guy comes around to tell you, that a PC offers even more, of that absolute argument, it is not allowed or bad or unimportant? No sir, that is not, how it works, at least not, if you dont wanna be a fanboy.
Belking  +   338d ago
ps4 is struggling to run the game. this isnt good. so much for power.
Shakengandulf  +   338d ago
Where exactly did they say that, he was simply stating the obvious, that a high end pc, single core has more grunt than a consoles single core.. Meaning optimisation is required.
Judging by you're one bubble though, i'm guessing i'm wasting my time.
DarkHeroZX  +   338d ago
Lol did you read the article? No struggles taking place good sir.
Lukas_Japonicus  +   338d ago
Yet again, you didn't read the article. Sigh

And IF the PS4 was struggling to run this game, the X1 wouldn't stand a chance.
Funky Town_TX  +   338d ago
Optimize the code and we may get mid range PC performance from the PS4 for this game. Exclusives is where the PS4 will do best. High end PC in Dec 2013 is not the same as high end PC in March 2014.
jlo  +   338d ago
This must be the first console gen in history where the CPU is bottlenecking 1 month after launch

How is this supposed to last 7/8 years?

But I suppose that's what happens when you buy cheap tablet cpu's.
Razjin  +   338d ago
I don't understand how this turned into PC vs PS4 when obviously the two are different. They both have pro's and con's. For example "PC" you get steam sales, have multiple options besides gaming on a larger scale, no sub unless it's a mmo, mods, better hardware, up-gradable, and improved graphics/fps....."Cons&am p;qu ot; not everyone can play the same game at the same quality, Irrelevant exclusives "not including mmo's", Consumes more power, High maintenance depending on hardware, good video cards are costly,cpu are costly unless you go with amd, even though steam is great you're only buying the license to play the games nothing like really owning it, Developers loose out on money from pirated pc games or private servers, Viruses...etc, and not mobile friendly as in transporting from one place to another by simply just putting it in a backpack or carrying case. If you would like me to do PS4 I will just to let you know i'm not bias.
#16 (Edited 338d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
Holeran  +   338d ago
Maybe this is why Sony gave the PS4 an 8 core processor? And developers are going to have to learn to deal with it in order to get money from the consumers. Wow what a concept.
frostypants  +   338d ago
Well, duh. Pointless article is pointless.
ho0lee0h  +   338d ago
I'd rather play on my silent PS4 that pulls 200w max for $400 than my amd FX + 7950 that eats 450w+ with 3 outtake fans, 1 intake fan, and 1 CPU fan for $800+. Plus, I can game on my couch vs my desk chair and not have to sit 2 feet away from my computer monitor. Mm, can't forget about split screen co-op.
#19 (Edited 338d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(8) | Report | Reply
MidnytRain  +   338d ago
Why don't you buy quieter fans? They're pretty cheap.
Are_The_MaDNess  +   338d ago
get quieter fans, get watercooling and you cant even hear it if you have the right gear.
and really? the hole couch deal again? does noone know how HDMI works at all?

in this day and age i cant see split screen being so big after a few years as more and more want to have their own big screen and just play online with mics like most people do nowadays anyway.
starchild  +   337d ago
I have a 7950 as well and I can tell you my PC is far quieter than my PS3 or Xbox 360. And probably quieter than my friend's PS4.

Besides, as the other guys said, you can always make your PC basically as quiet as you want it to be.

And the whole, "I can play on my HDTV instead of being hunched over my computer monitor" is just more console fanboy nonsense. If you guys didn't flat out lie and distort the truth so often maybe PC gamers wouldn't have to spend so much time correcting the BS.
ho0lee0h  +   330d ago
All I see is "spend more money on your $1k rig to make it quieter." I have 3 Cooler Master SickleFlow 120mm case fans and even bought Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO because it's the "quietest aftermarket CPU cooler." I will admit that it is not as noisy as the stock fans but it is STILL noisy.

Don't get me wrong, I use my PC A LOT more than I use my PS4 but I would much rather be in the living room playing with friends and 4 controllers with no headaches. Sadly, I'm on my PC playing League of Legends and FFXIV every day.
GraveLord   338d ago | Trolling | show
bornsinner  +   338d ago
WELL WELL WELL sony didn't hide the cpu specs for no reason, this is why killzone & driveclub can't do 60fps. PS4 has heavy bottlenecks.

bbbbut the GDRR5?? superflops? :/
ironmonkey  +   338d ago
most people have pcs. i have a high end pc but im not touting about it. my standards are high and by now with pc being so advanced why arent the games looking lifelike?. owning a titan doesnt make my experience any better than playing bf4 on ps4. pc people talk graphics im all about the fun factor and having clearer picture and graphics doesnt make it fun. talk is cheap just play the games. looking to get another titan as well only cause its my hobby.
starchild  +   337d ago
Stupid, stupid argument.

Yes, I do enjoy HD movies and PC games more. I enjoy the cleaner, more detailed visuals and especially the smoother, high framerate performance.

Go tell all the high end AV guys and audiophiles that it's all pointless-- that low quality is just as good as high quality, and that it's all about just watching the movie or hearing the music regardless of the quality.

Hell, go tell all the millions of people that upgraded from VHS players to DVD players and then later upgraded to Blu-ray players. If the quality we watch our movies at, or listen to our music at, or play our games at doesn't matter then all those people are wasting their time and money, right?

No, I'm sorry, I care about fidelity in my music, movies and games and I'm sick of people like you trying to tell me there is something wrong with that just because you are a fanboy of a console and are so butthurt that another platform is better in those areas.
Imalwaysright  +   337d ago
I rather play games on my PC as well but that will never stop me of playing games like GTA5 on my PS3 unlike some other users here that couldn't play it on their 360s or PS3s because they couldn't stand the jaggies and screen tearing. Those people to me aren't gamers, they're graphics whores. Games are much more than just graphics.
#22.1.1 (Edited 337d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report
2pacalypsenow  +   338d ago
in other news the sky looks blue
ironmonkey  +   338d ago
The games they made were have arsed. Not even noticed. Not going to be the must have game. Not even a titan will make this game look any better. Pc will look sharp thats it.
crippler666  +   338d ago
I think a fair bench test is a $399 PC bought off the shelf from a store. Not one made by a friend of a friend, nor built by yourself. It should have a blu-ray player and 8gb of ram. The PS4 is bought off the shelf so should the PC. Also no over-clocking is allowed. The case should be included as should a controller in with the price.

Then every game for the next 7 years should be compared between PS4/XBox1/PC, the same PC bought at the time the consoles went on sale. I have a feeling somehow that the consoles with come off the better as the software will be optimized for the relevant console.

With a console you buy one every 6+ years and they improve with time. PC gives you the choice of graphics card and memory and if you want to blow stupid amounts on a set up, then that is fine. I would rather buy a console and a load of games.
#25 (Edited 338d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
make72  +   336d ago
well i own almost every platform.I tested bf 4 in my pc wich have i5 4670k cpu and 760 gddr5 3gb gpu(game was optimized by geoforce almost maximum graphics,i tested both single player and multiplayer.After that i tested both in ps4.Got say ps4 version looked better with graphics and got stable 60 fps all the time pc versions fps jumped 40-60.SO i wanna ask from guys who only live their pc world is my pc low end pc? MY pc cost 1000 euros.PS4 beat easyli my pc.I tested need for rivals in ps4 game looks very nice and smoothly have to say under 1000 euros pc cannot run that game.Its sad to say to only pc guys u need 780 gpu wich cost more than ps4 to compete against ps4.I am not funboy to ps4 or any other system i just love to play games.every platform has good games.i been playing since 1978, i have seen great games from start to nowdays.the point is, its ridiculous to say ps4 is low end pc.Even The witcher makers said ps4 is high end pc.Who do you belive Witcher quys or 12 years old pc nerd?:)
#25.1 (Edited 336d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
elweon  +   338d ago
lol shit console! already old
gamernova  +   338d ago
I am a PC gamer and I am getting quite annoyed with these PC better than console articles. All PC gamers and even some console gamers know about the PC superiority but wealth distribution will tell you not everyone can afford one. It just makes those that can't feel inferior and I don't agree with that. People are busting their ass to get their kids these damn consoles for Christmas and the last thing I want to see is there articles that could possibly devalue that purchase.
naruto4892  +   338d ago
This is all pointless arguing. There is no way the PS4 can compete with a high end PC in performance. When you can buy parts that are flat out better than what Sony puts in their box, then it's no competition. Sony probably finalized the PS4 specs years before it hit the market. What the PC "master" race forgets are the games. There are so many games that the PC guys don't get and will never get to play(Uncharted, The Last of Us, Gran Turismo, MGS, etc.). The same goes for the other way around.

It's all a matter of personal preference really and each side has its pros and cons. The true master race owns a high end PC and a console.

I'm a console gamer primarily and I prefer Sony exclusives so I bought a PS4. I can't wait to see what devs do with the hardware later on in the life cycle because consoles only get better with time. Graphics are starting to top out anyway so all of this arguing about hardware performance doesn't really matter. Besides, most people(the people that drive the most profits) just don't give a shit anyway.
pennywhyz  +   337d ago
PC's are Godlike.
make72  +   336d ago
More like system that should rip back in 80:s :)
creepjack  +   337d ago
Dont know why everybody here thinks the PS4 is so powerful. This is the first time ever the new consoles didn't at least compare to high end pcs at launch. This gen is starting out way behind, and will ultimately just hold back developers. You can throw around cost all you want, but any savvy PC user can build a pc that blows the doors off the PS4 for not much more than what the PS4 costs. No clue where this $2000 crap keeps coming from.
Oh yeah, a hardcore gamer will save a few hundred a year just on Steam sales alone, not even counting in that ridiculous $50 a year just to play games online.
pennywhyz  +   337d ago
Well said.
make72  +   336d ago
You gotta be 12 years old pc nerd.:) my ps4 beats my 1000 euros pc.Ps4 first games allready look so great you will cry after naughty dog and sony santamonica make they first games .Sure you can play mmo:s with 4k on your 23 inches monitor thats the future of pc gaming:) i still remember first pc games they didnt even have sounds.
pennywhyz  +   335d ago
Then ya PC sux .life is a bitch what ya want me to tell ya.PC are 3-4years ahead of x1 n ps4. But I am enjoying KZ atm.
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