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Digital Foundry vs. Forza Motorsport 5; How Turn 10 tackled the 1080p60 challenge

Coming from the straight 720p of the previous game, where MSAA was in effect to varying degrees based on the race mode chosen, the impact of the resolution boost for this fifth entry can't be understated.

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pedrof93977d ago (Edited 977d ago )

This game was severely downgraded.You just don't do that.

MajorAly977d ago (Edited 977d ago )

All in favour of 1080p/60fps.

2D cardboard audience. Aggressive Anti-aliasing and the inside of a cockpit looks like moulded from clay.

@Below

Ofcourse they didn't why would they lol, it's their 'no compromises title'

pedrof93977d ago

Yeah but they didn't show that the first time didn't they ?

cleft5977d ago

1080p60fps is amazing, but if it comes at the cost of half of your content when compared to your last generation game that is a bit problematic. I can only hope they release dlc that adds in all of the cut content, but something tells me if they do it will be paid dlc.

AsimLeonheart977d ago (Edited 977d ago )

The Xbone fans were just claiming in the other article that it is all lies. That PS fans have doctored the images to smear Forza 5. :-/ I wonder what is their response now since Digital Foundry has confirmed the huge downgrade. I agree that graphics are not everything and you do not need cutting edge graphics to enjoy a game but a person should at least acknowledge the facts and be honest instead of resorting to denial and conspiracy theories until irrefutable proof is shoved in your face.

AlexanderNevermind977d ago

No Compromises...

Also No Cars, no tracks, no weather and no night time......

nm

pyramidshead977d ago (Edited 977d ago )

To the people in the other thread saying "if it's downgraded why haven't any reviewers mentioned this, this is Sony FUD and biased fanboys who don't want anything good from MS to succeed".

Well here you go...

They should have delayed it. Driveclub is now in another league:

http://i.minus.com/ipjXUchW...
http://i.minus.com/iWeRwH73...
http://a.pomf.se/L2c6P7.gif
http://i.minus.com/itFANgpQ...
http://i.minus.com/iy0hBZGI...
http://a.pomf.se/k8fet.gif
http://i.minus.com/iF5lgXx1...

Septic977d ago

Sorry where is the part in this article confirming the downgrade?

MajorAly977d ago (Edited 977d ago )

@Septic

"Even running at full HD, Forza 5's image suffers for the lack of an effective anti-aliasing method, meaning the game gives us a crisp, but ultimately raw end result. There's evidence of a post-process solution in effect, where light shaded gradients appear between each stair-step of banner lines passing overhead, and the jagged edges are partly obscured by the game's use of depth-of-field and per-object motion blur. However, there's no ignoring the rough-looking foliage and cockpit interior details that go entirely untreated here."

"Sadly, details like foliage and spectators do appear at odds with the visual standard of the rest of this track; particularly compared the sublime recreation of the McLaren P1 loaned to you at the start. On the one hand, trees appear either grossly pixellated or blurred, and the deficits in anti-aliasing do nothing to help the temporal flicker as the camera pans past. Elsewhere, crowds appear like cardboard cut-outs that, while easily hidden by the blurred pace of a high-speed race, sit unnaturally in the environment when caught up-close in replays. You can see these strings much too easily."

@Below
I don't think anyone used the word 'downgrade' officially instead just had the comparison/text speak for itself.

Septic977d ago

Yeah I read that bit but is there anywhere where it confirms the degradation in quality from previous builds? Like the pics that surfaced on that neogaf thread that's now locked?

Reverent977d ago

@Septic, why would you even need confirmation of the downgrade? Just look at footage from E3 compared to footage now. The difference is huge. That's all the confirmation you should need.

thereapersson977d ago

@Pyramidshead

Holy Mother of Jesus, those are some beautiful Driveclub screenshots. I am pretty sure those are from a more recent build too, meaning that the delay was worth it.

That third one... http://a.pomf.se/L2c6P7.gif

Look at how the window cracks when you get nailed by the car on the left, and notice the glowing brake discs under intense braking.

NatureOfLogic977d ago (Edited 977d ago )

After spending a little bit of time playing Forza 5 on a friends console. I have to say, Forza 5 is the most disappointing next gen game I've played(haven't played ryse or dr3 yet). I would even say GT6 looks better in some areas.

ambientFLIER977d ago

Thereapersson - You do realize that forza has windshield cracking and glowing brake discs too, right?

DatNJDom81977d ago

I guess putting in MK2 graphics does take the load off certain tasks.

showtimefolks976d ago

cleft5

don't worry turn-10 has you covered pay another $50-60 and get season pass so you can get the complete game. Over the last year or so it seems every game is getting season pass, so either buy the game for $60 and pay another $35-50 or just wait for the GOTY editions a year later

what resolution is GT6 gonna be running?
FPS?
how come a game on current gen can get weather and day and night cycle?

it just seems every odd that we have less tracks and less cars on a so called next gen racer when forza 4 had twice as many

+ Show (12) more repliesLast reply 976d ago
AlexanderNevermind977d ago (Edited 977d ago )

Not surprised to read this. Most gamers called this months ago. I can't tell you how many times I read that the crowd, background 'looked like crap'.

Shadow Flare977d ago

But thanks to hitting 1080p, it's now super sharp crap

pedrof93977d ago

@Major

Well you can't really compare like, but I'm sure that in F5 is due the reflection being more whiter.

ShinMaster976d ago

Not sure how the western media missed the flat textures, low poly environments, aliasing, baked and blurrier shadows, lack of ambient lighting and AO and lower content(compared to previous games in the series) in their reviews.

showtimefolks976d ago

ShinMaster

western gaming media is going down in a major way,(no pun intended MajorAly lol)

Most of them are too scared to give a bad score because they don't want the advertisement money or the exclusive coverage to stop

watch some of the yoytube user reviews, they are mostly honest and actually point out everything that's good or bad about a game

reviewzoneHD is really good
angryjoe is pretty good
rev3games seems to be spot on too

major gaming site that i trust is gamespot, yes i know about kane and lynch and jeff getting fired. But since than GS has gotten much better. They are very strict and will point out minor things, but sometimes its better to know more

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 976d ago
GarrusVakarian977d ago (Edited 977d ago )

It's a shame, ive always been a Forza fan and i loved the look of Forza 5 from the early builds of the game....but now, with a fraction of the tracks and cars and the graphics not being too different from Forza 4....i might just give this a pass.

14 tracks for a next gen racing sim is unacceptable. You would be bored of seeing the same track over and over in no time.

Yourpapa977d ago

yes, go and find the negatives for a 1080/60 launch game. come oooon.

BrianG977d ago

Of course, every launch game should be held to the same standard, just because this happens to be the only 1080p/60fps game doesn't give it a free pass.

The PS launch games that hit 1080p/60fps were graded and scrutinized like any other.

Just a shame as a gamer to see a game struggling with what is supposed to be the "next gen" standard, Full HD.

otherZinc977d ago

Really,

You guys ask Forza 5 to do something that's never been done in a racing game, ever: put NBA 2K like crowds in a Racing Game when you are moving 200mph. No racer has ever nor will ever accomplish such a task and be affordable to the end user. In our racing history dating back to the Atari 2600, we've yet to have a racing game with an NBA 2K crowd.

How about this:
Killzone:SF can only do 1080p due to the fact of it's downgrade of the omission of "Champaign co-op"! You know, a feature that's been around for over 20 years!

MysticStrummer977d ago

"You guys ask Forza 5…"

No. The devs themselves presented the game with 3D crowds and then downgraded that and other things about the visuals.

Did Killzone:SF ever have campaign co-op? Was the game ever presented showing that feature, only to have it disappear in the following months? I don't think so.

BrianG977d ago

What about the anti aliasing then? That's a very standard feature that other games don't seem to have a problem implementing to SOME degree of success.

Ju976d ago (Edited 976d ago )

Funny...KZ:SF is the most striking next gen game to date and the MP runs [email protected] No downgrade there. Those retro maps blow me away every time I get into one of those.

And re. NBA...Forza to Driveclub is like NBA 2K vs. NBA Live. Go figure.

mixelon976d ago

... *Champaign* co-op?

Why did nobody tell me about this feature?! *digs out KZ3*

..
Well.. That's disappointing.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 976d ago
electricone85977d ago

where was the game downgraded? The article dosen't even mentions anything about a downgrade, you sony fans just see things that aren't there.

BrianG977d ago

The article does not mention a downgrade from previous versions, with the exception of Forza 4 having MSAA anti-aliasing in place, where Forza 5 has a very ineffective AA method in place that makes the game look rough.

The overall point is sacrifices were made to make 1080p, like the AA trade off and overall details of the environment to keep the game running Full HD at 60fps.

Reason people are reacting this way is the new hardware should have no problem running Full HD and have decent environments/crowds, but for some reason it is.

MysticStrummer977d ago

Yeah if you've seen the comparison pics, you know what they did to achieve 1080p/60fps.

BallsEye977d ago

So were the ps4 games. Didn't see you complain about huge kz and driveclub downgrades. Known troll, you are.

Pintheshadows977d ago

I think you need to go and get educated. Drive Club looks better by the day and KZSF is the best looking next gen console game by a long long way.

MysticStrummer977d ago

"Didn't see you complain about huge kz and driveclub downgrades."

Probably because there weren't any huge downgrades. There was a thread comparing bullshots to final product for several titles, and the comments were pretty damn near unanimous saying Forza was one of the worst and Killzone was one of the best. The EA games were also noticeably downgraded. I forget where I saw that… I'll look for it.

As for Drive Club, how can you compare bullshots or early builds to a final product when there isn't a final product yet…?

BallsEye976d ago

You fanboys are just amazing.

What was promised:

http://gry24-online.pl/news...

what was given:

http://images.gamersyde.com...

thats some killer trees

http://static.gamespot.com/...

http://static.gamespot.com/...

That blood!

You guys are just hillarious. Yes there was comparison e3 vs final and final look way worse. Now waiting for someone to say i edited the damn game to make it look worse on these shots. Btw those are from official reviews.

http://www.gamespot.com/rev...

abc1233976d ago (Edited 976d ago )

@BallsEye: Are you serious? Go look at the same portion of the game from the E3 build and the retail build instead of throwing out random screenshots from different parts of the game. The game wasn't downgraded, if anything the character models were upgraded. For example:

http://scr.wfcdn.de/8439/Ki...

http://i5.photobucket.com/a...

Pintheshadows976d ago

So I am a fanboy for calling you out on nonsense that you couldn't prove. You need to get that other mans balls out of your eyes. They are hindering your vision.

trancefreak976d ago

Killzone Shadowfall Looks Phenomenal to be a launch game. We all know Guerilla games will push the boundaries in the future as they openly admitted they learned new tricks they didn't implement in this installment.

In the 3d model of a game not every item is going to be detailed 5 miles away, but I noticed some insanely impressive attention to detail during the campaign.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 976d ago
Visiblemarc977d ago

Sounds like they should have dropped the res to 900p and upped the AA and AF.

I guarantee the Forza team wanted to do this, but were told "no" by MS as it would be seen as an admission that Xb1 isn't at home at 1080p...which, it seems, it isn't.

mmj976d ago (Edited 976d ago )

Well said.

Although 900P with AA may be beyond Xbox One if you want 'next gen' effects. Xbox One has half the pixel rendering output of PS4, 720P has about half the pixels of 1080P.

frostypants977d ago (Edited 977d ago )

Got to play it a little last night. It doesn't look significantly better than Forza 4 to me. That, on top of having less cars, is ridiculous. IMO Forza 4 is still the definitive Forza.

xxxxx01976d ago (Edited 976d ago )

Look this game is 1080p 60 fps its a steady 60fps game thats the good the bad is they had to sacrifice to maintained that steady 1080p 60fps. put overall its a good game .

trancefreak976d ago

How about the pricey tokens and micro-transactions in place of credits?

What about the day 1 DLC LOL. In my mind the game should be full featured on the first day. DLC is optional later.

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 976d ago
richie007bond977d ago

What is it with euro gamer any excuse to nitpick the Xbox one.

Kayant977d ago

Hmmm it's DF it made to *nitpick* & look at games/stuff in exterme detail not just XB1 games. Also has noted on gaf it's not done by Richard Leadbutter so it's harsher than normal & the fact they noted the downgrade speak volumes. If it was a site like Anandtech that did this kind of analysis for next-gen games then oh my it won't be pretty.

InMyOpinion977d ago

Digital Foundry conduct the best and most unbiased comparisons you can find imo.

jmc8888977d ago

They screwed up BF4 comparison pretty badly.

I saw people yesterday still claiming BF4 was better on Xbox One...no doubt because of DF's mistakes and inability to remove a faulty article... even though they did a half hearted apology article.

But is DF still good when they aren't screwing up or showcasing Ledbetter's bias? Of course.

People just need to remember to take each article and scrutinize it.

Sarcasm977d ago

Are you serious? It's digital foundry, it's their purpose, to nitpick and evaluate a games performance regardless of the console. They've been doing it for years. Have you been living under a rock with internet?

Bhai977d ago

Dear God, game's a mess. Only 200 cars, 14 tracks, cutted out features... definitely a rush for the launch and man it looks weak. Pics from the article:

http://images.eurogamer.net...

http://images.eurogamer.net...

ugly 2D trees, crowd and rubbish road textures... cartoony buildings. And the 1080p 60fps quality shows the shortcomings the most as they say:

"now we see the lacklustre texture filtering, the pixellated foliage, and even the cut-out spectator sprite-work that line the road-sides. The game's improved lighting effects and motion blur go some way to obscure such issues during the core racing experience, but in tandem with the halved track and car count, it does seem to suggest a developer pressed to release an end product to a brutal launch window schedule.

It's also disappointing that, despite the supreme full HD presentation, Forza 5 offers anti-aliasing that delivers little to no effect on foliage or cars. Stair-stepping can be rough in spots, especially in cockpit view, and given the processing muscle-power needed to push out this resolution, it makes for a surprising contrast with a more thoroughly treated - if performance limited - 900p game like Ryse."

OUCH!

MasterCornholio977d ago (Edited 977d ago )

Driveclub looks better to me but thats just my opinion.

http://2.images.gametrailer...

http://static.worldsfactory...

I like this one a lot

http://i5.minus.com/ib0V3vD...

Is it just me or does the crowd look funny?

@Bhai

Yep and even if the game ends up playing at 30FPS (hoping for 60FPS though) its an incredible achievement.

@mkis007

Im getting AC4 as well. I just finished AC3 and what i hate the most is the shoddy framerate. AC4 is locked at 30FPS so it should be an incredible experience compared to AC3.

Bhai977d ago

Dude your shots made my day, the foliage in Drive Club is just NEXXXT Gen, I mean its plain sexy! thankyou :D

mkis007977d ago (Edited 977d ago )

People still think 30 fps is bad because this whole gen when they would say a game runs at 30 fps that would be the upper limit while it ran at 23-28fps most of the time. 30 fps looks great as long as they really mean it. Assassins creed 4 looks amazing locked at 30 on my ps4.

those screens are beautiful. the second one looks like it has a capture issue.

Ive only recently found 1 time that the frames dip on ps4 and that was when it was raining in an ocean storm with 5 ships around me as i was boarding a man o war...that is a lot of npc's to render. not top mention all the canon , guns and fires.

I'm glad Drive Club is free for ps+ or I might have never played it.

FamilyGuy977d ago

I like that first picture the most, the textures on the tree and surrounding environment all look phenomenal. Looks like they're trying to give Crytek a run for their money in the foliage department.

Sarcasm977d ago

I think they are shooting for 60fps. Good thing they delayed it so in the end we get a better product. Not like this half baked attempt forza 5.

MysticStrummer977d ago

"Driveclub looks better to me but thats just my opinion."

That was my opinion even before Forza was downgraded. The differences were obvious even then and there were comments from MS fans that scoffed at the importance of the background visuals.

PR_FROM_OHIO977d ago

Its not just you! Bc DriveClub looks miles better then FORZA 5 IMO Hell GT6 looks just as good as FORZA 5 and thats sad lol

Visiblemarc977d ago

Yeah, some people scoffed at me earlier on when I kept saying Drive Club looked better than Forza...but it's pretty much guaranteed, especially with the extra time they are putting in.

jmc8888977d ago

30 FPS isn't very good, but still passable and enjoyable.

But what is amazing is that if it ends up looking like this and there isn't some hidden thing degrading the actual fun in driving then this game will beat Forza 5 hands down and.... it's FREE!

scott182976d ago

Best looking race game hands down, drive club is glorious...

GW212976d ago (Edited 976d ago )

I'm playing AC4 now and it's very cool. I got a little tired of the series but the story of this one is much better than the recent iterations.

Graphics are great too. I actually find myself looking around once in a while.

Also, I just switched to playstation from xbox and have no friends on PSN. Add me - GKW212

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 976d ago
FamilyGuy977d ago

Lol, that cut-out, water-colored crowd looks horrible.
Wtf were they thinking?

The cars look pretty so why ignore the rest the game?
Seems so lop-sided.

MightyNoX977d ago

I figure it went something like this:

"More power, daymnit!!"
"I cannae gi'er anymo', Cap'n! The Xbox is melting!"
"Eject dynamic weather, dynamic lighting, paste static environment into the core!"
"Brilliant!"

MysticStrummer977d ago

The United Federation Starship Consolation Prize is saved!!!

jmc8888977d ago (Edited 977d ago )

She cannot take it!

I cannot funnel any more through the 32 MB's of ESRAM CAPTAIN!!!

RavageX976d ago (Edited 976d ago )

I bet they wish they had used dilithium crystals instead.