More comparison screenshots have been revealed for “Forza Motorsport 5,” taking a look at the differences from the E3 build to the final versions.
Wow that is one of the worst downgrades I've ever seen. Here they are side to side http://www.neogaf.com/forum... Was that E3 build the one that was running on a high end PC? Everyone should post this on Turn 10's forums. It's beyond deceitful that they wouldn't even mention it.
1) People claimed it was the best looking game and the reason xbox one was next generation. 2) They claimed the pc's used were xbox equivalents and downgrades wouldn't come. They were wrong. I have said this SO many times TURN 10 are NOTORIOUS for this stuff. You can finally see the baked lighting (in the last pic of the comparison) and static backgrounds...lack of weather and other shortcuts they use to maintain frame rate. Turns out the game was downgraded like crazy to maintain 1080p 60 fps. Looks like PS4 is ahead in graphics. Heck even polygon (one of the most biased Microsoft sites I have ever seen) claimed Killzone trumped RYSE here https://www.youtube.com/wat... "I think moment to moment as I look at [Ryse] killzone looks better" All xbox one games have been downgrades so far or had frame rate issues or both. PS4? not at all. In some cases having the superior version of the SAME game. What I hate the most is that the media REFUSE to acknowledge this in reviews or anything. They swipe it under the rug. Not even doing their jobs as reviewers. Turn 10's famous "its all in game" was BS.
did you notice the crowd in one shot is digital and in the other is cardboard? wtf
ok i clicked that link, funniest thing i seen this gen ROFL
Where the Polygon Head Editor said Killzone looks better than Ryse starts at 5:26 for those wanting to look quick
well said i was surprise to hear polysoft admit that about killzone looks better than rise
Every Xbox One launch game was down graded from E3 reveal. I won't be surprised when start showing actual footage of Quantum Break that it gets a down grade from E3 reveal.
CBOAT AND THUWAY said expect downgrades. There you go.
Every time I see Forza 5, it looks worse and worse. I hate it when publishers/developers deceive the community. In the meantime, this game keeps looking better and better: https://www.facebook.com/ph...
@raptar Chill out. ;) I believe he was alluding to information disclosed in prior articles. edit: This is what dynamic lighting looks like. https://www.facebook.com/ph...
^ Forza has never utilized dynamic lighting or dynamic skies. The backdrops are definitely static as well. Ask Turn 10 yourself. They've been achieving 60fps with these tricks since Forza started. Ever notice it's always daytime in Forza? They bake their lighting to a point where they don't (can't) even have night racing. Highlighting your words in all caps like a child doesn't make you right. Again, just ask Turn 10 yourself. If you can't see from the gameplay videos that the lighting isn't dynamic and that the backdrops are static, then you have no idea what these things mean, as you're blinded by the glossy, overly shiny effect they've applied on the cars. Surprise surprise, another victim. Developers like Evolution Studios have made it evidently clear about their dynamic approach. Why hasn't Turn 10 ever done it? Ask them, you'll see. 60fps has its price. You must think they're performing wizardry or something, lol. Even with everything baked, they still had to downgrade the retail build. Just look at it and say it's on par with the E3 build for a nice laugh.
That's a a very noticeable downgrade. Now we see why its 1080p 60fps. Half the content of Forza 4 and a bump, not a leap, in visuals.
Is it just me, or is Polygon gutting their own credibility with all this.
Yeah this is an obvious downgrade. Reports started in beginning of September the TGS build looked severely downgraded, but they blamed it on bad calibrated monitors. http://www.dualshockers.com... It's funny how all of these rumors from months ago are starting to make more sense now.
@raptor People like you worry me a lot. I'm not sure if it's ignorance, blatant lies, low reading comprehension, idiocy, or a mixture. The fact that you spit words at people and point fingers at them like they are wrong when clearly you are wrong... Btw, it's not the shadow that moves (via the sun in a day/night CYCLE - which take two will say, no we don't have that), it's the car moving through it. Thus baked.
@Raptar Baked lighting means it is pre rendered. Let`s say you make any kind of level for any kind of game. In this case we pick a race track. I make the track and set the sun position in the editor, sunlight strength, colour and so on. When you compile the data it will bake the lighting into the track, meaning it will set the shadows for all the level geometry and so on. That still allows for cars or other moving objects (trees) to cast shadows that move based on the baked in sun position, sun strength and so on. What this method does not allow is lighting changes on a larger scale i.e. clouds moving over the sun that change the lighting or different day times. If you use baked lighting and you want to make a track playable at different times you need to compile data for those times setting the sun position, sun light strength and so on. Given there are no changing weather, day/night effects this would very likely suggest that lighting is baked in because it takes less resources and there would be less need for dynamic lighting without changing effects. Static backgrounds have nothing to do with change of perspective when you approach at different angles. Static background means the background is static and not animated and so on. Static doesn`t rule out that there is no change of perspective, static means there is nothing really going on. If you look at the old and final build it`s not jumping at small details, there are very big differences between lighting, AA, texture quality, effects quality etc. Jumping on small details is to complain that in the old build the audience appears to be 3D models while in the final build they only used sprites.
@OrangePowerz An apt summary. Props for you. Raptar, you should read his post.
@Raptar It`s funny for you to point out that people like Enemy wouldn`t realize when games use old tech because it`s shiny. That is the exact thing you do. You see Forza 5 looking shiny and think that it`s completely new tech, while it isn`t. Their big selling point of Drivatars is something they could have done on the 360 as Turn 10 stated this themselves. Yes Forza 5 looks nice, but the 1080p and 60fps comes at a high cost by cutting back on things like dynamic lighting that would allow them to make races at any time of the day without any problems, because the engine would automatically calculate everything. Once this function is integrated into the engine it`s super easy to make day/night changes, night races or races at different times of the day with different cloud overcast. Additional edit for Raptar: By that definition racing games since the PS1 and N64 had non static backgrounds, because they had some objects move like the wheel on the Suzuka track. This is dynamic content in a static background. To use an over the top extreme case a real dynamic background would be having an avalanche going off in the mountain in the background in an alpine set track. For Forza let`s take something more simple as example. Clouds, they don`t move and produce cloud overcast in any dynamic way. Forza doesn`t do weather changes either and I`m not even talking about rain. As said above they don`t even have cloud overcasting. I didn`t came up with a definition. I`m doing maps and level design since Half Life came out and the Hammer editor and over time used different engines. Baked lighting means there is no global change to the lighting and shadow casting that would alter it from the set values, this does not have any effect on individual objects casting shadows. Those objects cast their shadows based on the values set before compiling the level data.
Off-topic: Driveclub looks absolutely freakin' amazing. Even GT6 does compared to this.
Angels3785, thankyou for that post. :) Its what Ive been saying too, but you said it better.
@raptar: by any real account Turn 10 have ruined smeared Forza's reputation. Have been lowering standards while raising expectations. With many saying content and features have been cut to be made into DLC. Cars as well as tracks.
And what about sony and polyphony. Gran turismo trailers always look good then you play the actual game and it looks like shit. Who's fooling who now?! Gt is notoriuos showing cgi graphics to wow everybody and what you actually get is a ps2-3 port.
I guess this means more room for the next forza game. hell, GT is on it's 7th and people will still buy the 6th knowing the 7th is going to be better.
@clae1: While you're free to offer pics and/or video from prior versions of GT, try to remember you're talking about a game which not only has more cars and tracks, day and night driving along with transitions and weather, but is on an older system. Really, given that Forza 5 is on the XB1 and BR discs, there is no excuse for it to have fewer cars and tracks than a prior version of itself, much less be so outdone by the competition.
Finally, someone brings this issue to everybody's attention. I had already brought this up in another thread yesterday. http://n4g.com/news/1399394... The game is not the technical marvel it was made out to be initially.
3D crowd models to 2D.
All games have received downgrades? Are You for real? That People like your comment is beyond me. Forza has received quite some downgrades yes, I knew so when we got gameplay footage after e3. But which other games got downgrades? If you say Ryse (besides cinematic being not in-game, which doesn't affect you whatsoever) you lose all credibility. I can also say Killzone doesn't get to 60fps all the time. But people won't be bothered by it at all, since I'm sure its still a great game. I agree that being lied to is crap. FM5 being ingame in those videos was total bullshit. In my opinion there should come some kind of standard for that text. Like; Real Gameplay, Replay function, etc. Most of that beautiful footage was probably the replay function, which I'm not sure is really allowed to be called ingame.
We can play spot the difference with these pictures!
http://i.minus.com/ipjXUchW... http://i.minus.com/iWeRwH73... http://a.pomf.se/L2c6P7.gif http://i.minus.com/itFANgpQ... http://i.minus.com/iy0hBZGI... http://a.pomf.se/k8fet.gif http://i.minus.com/iF5lgXx1... Driveclub, despite a disappointing delay, is going to blow FM5 out of the god damn water. There is no argument for this anymore. This is also a couple of months after GT6 has trounced it on the PS3 too. Turn 10 and MS could learn a few things from the DC team I think. FM5 could have done with a bit more time to polish. Huge downgrades there for Turn 10 :/
Yeah, the textures are a lot better on the E3 build and the lighting is also superior to the final version. Definitely a noticeable downgrade. That's how you know the PC's used at E3 were not equivalent to the XBO specs.
So why wasn't this mentioned in the games reviews First they ignore the fact that it's got LESS content then past Forza games...a step back and now they have downgraded the game from what they showed us. Come on
Retail build looks exactly like Forza 4.
Basically Forza 5 is Forza 4 with less content they will sell as DLC So Forza 4.5 ...makes sense
Actually foxtrot if forza 5 has less content then forza 4, then that would make this forza 3.5 Welcome to next gen. Here's a case study to prove teh powerz of teh cloud mean jack. Because instead what's happened is a new forza game has been totally gimped on graphics and content in order to hit 1080p 60fps. So... more lies Microsoft? You shock me
Honestly i think they just rushed it for launch so people would buy xbox one.Im glad sony delayed driveclub so it can be better than this crap.
@Shadow Flar I'm not good with Maths :D
These pictures are photoshopped...NeoGaf is known to be ruled by Sony fanboys, just like N4G. Hence your insane amount of bubbles..
can we also talk about how Driveatars are basically the same thing we were all using on Tekken: Dark Resurrection yet Turn 10 has praised as though it's the next best thing since sliced bread? a freaking PSP game! @mystogan wait til you see how poor Forza 6 is, compared to GT7 on PS4 then we'll see who's fooling who like seriously instead of being a delusional fanboy how about going to the Turn 10 forums and taking these people to task for this incredibly shoddy game? Microsoft will always fall behind to Sony as their audience embraces mediocrity!
Enemy stop with your nonsense. This site is terribly childish. 30 likes for a complete and utter lie? It doesn't look as good as the e3 trailer. Besides some areas that have been improved. But saying that it doesn't look good at all or the same as Forza4? C'mon guys, stop being such fanboys and drag your head out of your asses.
People need to see the neogaf article on car prices in forza... McClaren f1 32 DOLLARS... this is with a discount... no way I would ever support this game...
Yeah, that looks really bad. I hate it for the guys who were all waiting for this. Now I cannot wait to see the final version of Drive Club.
Hmmm geee i wonder why Enemy convienently left out the killzone e3 vs final build comparisons which were a fucking major downgrade, borderline lieing to consumers. Thats like going from Ultra to Medium on a PC. http://m.neogaf.com/showpos... Oh yea hes a sony fanboy with an agenda but the whole site already knows that.
Wut? What Killzone downgrades? The game was one of the few that looked identical or better in game play in its retail form than when it was shown at the reveal you nubbin. The thread where you take that post from on neogaf generally agrees on that too, Killzone is basically unmolested...The pictures speak for themselves. All that is done is gamma correction on lighting or texture refinements etc
Considering this thread is about Forza 5, and Killzone: Shadow Fall looked even better at retail than early builds, there's no reason to bring it up. I like how you say major, completely confirming how delusional you are. If Killzone: Shadow Fall looks worse to you now than it did back then, then you have not seen retail version. They improved texture pop up, frame rate, shadows, and more.
Call me crazy, but the final build looks better.
First image is old and second is new, it got a huge upgrade not downgrade lol Nice attempt though
lol,it still looks amazing heck even some shots from the final build look better if not all of them.
Wow those are beautiful pics. I don't see one person who went from 3D to 2D though. When you said it was a "fucking major downgrade, borderline lieing to consumers", I expected to be able to… you know… notice. Instead what I see is incredibly close to the original. Looking at those pics just makes me wonder how the flying F anyone ever made the claim that Ryse was the best looking game. EDIT - lol You might want to read the comments from the thread those pics are in...
and even with minor downgrades its still lightyears ahead of forza.
Sorry to disappoint you Pinkdolphinyfg but since you brought this up here, Sony games have the trend to look better between final builds and previous ones, and you are clearly delusional or just don't want to admit the truth that final build of KZ:SF looks better than the reveal. Those pics just prove that, and in those pics it really look beyond next next-gen: http://www.neogaf.com/forum... Especially this one, NOTHING comapres to that on ANY PLATFORM: http://i1.minus.com/iMfsaaS... And for comparison between last-gen and next-gen in both respective titles: PGR4 vs Forza5: http://www.neogaf.com/forum... KZ3 vs KZ:SF: http://www.neogaf.com/forum... The pics speak for themselves. I think you know now which one got the jump into next-gen rightfully.
That is a big downgrade wow lol the whole game looked miles better on the old build.
Just imagine the downgrades if the cloud wasn't handling some of the processing work. ; )
Looks like theirs not enough clouds.
Did you know that Killzone was down graded from what was shown at E3 to try and fix the frame rate. You guys want 1080p, 60fps in all games. Guess what the graphics could suffer as a result with these consoles. Both PS4 and X1, until they can optimize engines latter in the life cycles.
There is ZERO information to back up your statement. You are full of shit.
Nope Killzone actually got upgraded especially the textures which were improved by 4x. Just accept it the PS4 is stronger than the Xbox One which is why its able to produce prettier games than it.
The needs to be a downvote in bubbles added for 'nonsense' on this site.
They added a lot of stuff since E3. Have you seen the fog? You keep kidding yourself , Pappy. You've been doing it for years on here. One of the biggest Kinect cheerleaders , right there.
So where Sony shows a pre-build and it comes under fire for not delivering - KZ2 - here's an instance of MS insisting that they'll deliver and it ends up only as over hype. And people think all competition is a good thing... Edit: Honestly, that pic looks so bad it makes me worry what the PS4 can deliver.
To be fair KZ2's was vastly different from the build. This is still different but not at the same level.
You think this is a bad downgrade? You should check out Killzone 2 fake gameplay trailer sony made and said it was real gameplay footage when it was later proven to be CGi.
Have to reach that far back huh Xbot? lol Ryse was downgraded, Dead Rising 3 was downgraded, and Flopza was downgraded...On a technical level Killzone 2 kicks the crap out of most Xbone launch titles.
These pictures are doctored. I'm playing Forza 5 right now and it looks nothing like the "Final" version. Fanboy food.
Yeah man we can't deny this one. I played Forza yesterday when I got my Xbox One and it looks like the final version, except a little better when looking at it in person.
Massive denial. Unhook that cool-aid drip and start accepting visitors, you need to be studied.
@Enemy Your fanboy brain is making you see something negative. An average person would say it held up very well (in which it did). There's a difference but not enough to blow it out of freakin proportion like you did. Your opinions don't matter here in Xbox articles, they don't, your just wasting your time. "Everyone should post this on Turn 10's forums. It's beyond deceitful that they wouldn't even mention it." Lol wow GTFOOH kid...
Only when its sonyfanboys huh?? I don't see you taking action against mysogan's comments.