Naughty Dog co-founder Jason Rubin isn't sure that Microsoft is finished yet, and today in a panel he mentioned that he was optimistic for the long term.
No one is saying it's over. But the last generation hold they had on the American market is over. It may not be over, but Sony is in a way stronger position than it was last time around. PS4 launched a week before Xbox One in the U.S., last gen PS3 launched a full year later. PS4 is $399, $100 cheaper than Xbox One, last gen PS3 was, at one point, $200 more expensive than Xbox One. And even after the difficulties Sony faced with PS3, they still sold 80 million consoles -- the same amount of Xbox 360 units sold. So yeah, Sony is definitely the frontrunner this time around.
I agree here (shocking I know!) MS won't be commanding as tight a grip on the US market as the lat gen, that is for sure. However, we can hopefully see Microsoft get out of 'limp mode' after launch where things will change drastically. The higher price point will definitely sting and set them back but the race has just begun and the pressure is on MS to prove that the investment is worthwhile. "Anytime you sit there and say ‘it’s over for Microsoft’ – which is easy to say now – you’re generally jumping ahead of yourself." Precisely. All the doom and gloom aside, MS' quite rapid response to criticisms and quick u-turns do say a lot about how the company can react quickly adapt and that adaptability will pay dividends in the future. MS got a swift (and much needed) kick up the backside this gen so here's hoping they've manage to finally stand up straight and do things right now, especially against the sheer momentum the PS4.
No one is saying that. However lets keep in mind that Jason Rubin was fired by Sony back in the day. SO he has a bit of a grudge towards Sony. MS will have hard time selling X1 at that price. Even if price was lower, it seem like they have problem with supply. They are skipping many EU countries for now etc. First year is going to Sony no matter what, then at E3 maybe MS cuts the price and removes Kinect. But then the question remains, will it be too late, to win? Like it or not PS is much bigger brand. PS3 released year and a half later in Europe, a year later in US and Japan, at huge price difference, and still sold 80 m units, which makes them neck a neck in sales I think. MS can never pull that move, they dont have the same power in brand as Sony does. Not over and I hope its not we need competition. In the end I don't trust anyone when there is no competition. EDIT:funny how I lost a bubble when I mostly get agrees. hmm
Ditto. These new consoles are awesome. The level of competition that has happened all year will have to continue. Of course, there will be fanboys and we all know the crap they get on with. The truth is that this may well be the best console generation for consumers, ever. Even if Xbox One and ps4 were to ship the same number of units in November, then the "war" is still not over. Not even close. One million units remains a small fraction of lifetime sales. Edit: I believe that the battle of hype between these two consoles is what led to a record setting day one release. Everyone who comes on sites like n4g had a part to play. Crappy websites and click bait articles even played a part.
yes but i still wish they've done all the u-turns to serve the consumer and not because they weren't going to nake enough money. that's my problem with MS i feel like the only thing that counts for them is cash and the MS products buyers are seen as cash cows. Sony is going to win this war, they have a cheap and a powerful console, and the fact they ain't selling it at a loss (they said a couple million sales will make it profitable) will allow them to cut the price more often.
@abzdine "yes but i still wish they've done all the u-turns to serve the consumer and not because they weren't going to nake enough money. " You would have to be supremely naive if to think that Sony are doing what they are doing for the benefit of consumers alone. This is business. "that's my problem with MS i feel like the only thing that counts for them is cash and the MS products buyers are seen as cash cows. " And what, Sony operates as a charity and has a righteous goal in mind? There's an ancient proverb that comes to mind: "Cash moves everthing around me, C.R.E.A.M get the money, dollar dollar bill y'all" - Wu Tang Clan
For sure, they are both in it for the money. The best part is the two of them being locked in battle. The more fierce that these two compete, the further the end user's money goes. I would never wish bad things on Xbox One, because I know that my ps4 experience hinges on Microsoft's success, too. I am a pacifist, but I hope that we all can continue the level of hype for the next few years. I've already spent my $400, and now I'm depending on both companies to make that $400 go as far as it can. Edit: Septic, my friend, you botched the Wu quote. I still love you though. :)
@steve "Edit: Septic, my friend, you botched the Wu quote. I still love you though. :)" Ah what?! Really? Lol #forshame N'uff love back lol
May road map: 2013 PS4 2015 WiiU 2016 PC upgrade 2017 X1 ( by then it should have a price cut, nice backlog and Halo6 should be out)
Both the PS4 and XBOX ONE will do well and make money. I'm not the least bit worried about MS and Sony striving in this new generation. I'm more worried about what Nintendo will do next if Wii U sales don't drastically pick up. Even though I barely played the Wii I purchased over the last several years and passed on the Wii U. I still want them to be relevant in the industry when it comes to home consoles. Do they stick it out with the Wii U or go in a different direction faster than ever before? Personally I prefer 3 viable consoles vs only 2. I'm a gamer and could care less about which company out does one another in bank. I just want to industry to out live me. With that said on to Jason Rubin. Why does anyone care what he says? This is a guy for roughly 2 years now that is in the "mobile gaming is taken over console gaming" camp. He also said it would not surprise him if this next generation is turns out to be the last 'console' generation. That despite the demand out of the gate these consoles (X1 & PS4) have. He feels sales will start dropping off faster than previous generations. Even though all the analyst show otherwise he still sticks to this stance. He has become nothing but a mouth piece to fan flames. There isn't a thing that comes out of his mouth that I give any weight to at all. Get to work Jason and build something of substance for console gamers. After that come back and tell us what you think. Jason is becoming the Peter Molyneux of the industry. Talks 95% more than actually adding to the industry in a substantive way. If I'm being me, honest, I'd rather hear from Peter over Jason. At least Peter talks about expanding gaming with innovation and creativity and not all doom and gloom.
I definitely agree. While I'm more enthused for the PS4 and what that system is bringing to the table, I will pick up an Xbone once the price drops. I own a 360 and PS3, and will probably own both those consoles next gen as well, just not at 500 Microsoft.
Both will do good. as for MS, the one year lead and rise of sales number due to RROD is not there to help them.
@Septic: "You would have to be supremely naive if to think that Sony are doing what they are doing for the benefit of consumers alone. This is business." May be business, but it's business done at the benefit of consumers first and foremost, which is the point. "And what, Sony operates as a charity and has a righteous goal in mind?" That's a very stale argument. The differences in how Microsoft and Sony treat the consumer base is very apparent. Charity isn't the issue, respect is. Microsoft do not respect their consumer base, Sony does.
@DragonKnight That is strictly an opinion. MS has not let me down, screwed me over, or done anything in my mind to warrant the level of hate that people have for them. I just don't get it. Sony is out to make money, plain and simple. That is their #1 objective, to make money. You can be sweet, nice, care about your consumers, but if no one buys your product you won't be around. If they don't make money, they go out of business, just like every business. Everyone talks like the PS4 is cheap and the X1 is expensive. One's $400 and one's $500, neither is "cheap." The PS3 launched at what, $699? You think that's Sony being nice and caring about it's consumers? Just would like to know how MS doesn't respect their consumers. I'm sure everyone will say it was the DRM issue. They tried to do something different and took a leap, it failed. But you in no ways HAD to buy an X1, their were those who supported the DRM, and at the end of the day its your decision if you wanted one, nothing was being forced upon you or anyone else.
@Venomar: So you voice your opinion, but don't get that others have their own? Then you follow it up with the same old nonsense about companies out to get money. Some companies stay in business because they're strictly out to make money. Some companies stay in business because they're out to EARN money. Both WANT money, but how they go about it is vastly different. Don't know why that's so hard for Xbox fans to get. As for the DRM thing: just stop. They tried something that was bad, and they failed. That they failed is important, but that they tried is ALSO critical. It's an extreme example, but you don't just let someone off the hook because they TRIED to kill you, but failed. It's bad enough that they tried at all. Please, stop defending that.
@ Dragon and Hick But your point doesn't change any fact. No matter how much whoever loves whatever corporation for what reason, will not change the FACT both these companies are in it for 1 thing alone, PROFIT. I do agree with you though, the better they create the “ILLUSION of caring” then the more people will THINK they care about them, and in turn spend money with them. My real point is, too think any corporation cares at all, in any way about anything but profit, you are fooling yourself. “May be business, but it's business done at the benefit of consumers first and foremost, which is the point.” No the point is getting you to come off your money. Period. Profit first and foremost, which is their point. “Charity isn't the issue, respect is. Microsoft do not respect their consumer base, Sony does” Again if you thing for 1 second that Sony or any business out there today Respects anything but PROFIT ALONE, then you are very naïve about how the world around you works. Do you know why these are manufactured in China? Do you know why everything in the world is manufactured in China. It’s not for caring or respect I promise that shit. Ya’ll need to educate yourselves, because you just sound so very petty, ignorant and insignificant with this stupid tit for tat fanboy war. The government in China is working slave laborers and has no environmental regulations at all, this is how they save so much money moving manufacturing there. So you can imagine the caring and respect all corporations have for mankind and the earth as a whole, then get folks on N4G talking about how a worker in China deserves to be killed for the thermal paste thing, killed… f#$%ing killed, someone really said that $hit. Unreal.
Not a sprint it's a Marathon I bet Sony & Microsoft are secretly chatting on the phone chatting about the launch there not enemies so why should we be . Like Blur & Oasis in the 90's two huge Britt Pop bands going head to head but secretly they were having a laugh over it & meeting to have a drink but publicly slating each other's work ., it's just business not anything else & it depends what you want in your console .
Halo 5 alone has the potential to close any gap in sales between the X1 and PS4, I don't think any game has the system selling power that Halo has, maybe some Nintendo franchises do but it's a much smaller number of people. Playstation just doesn't have a game that does that.
@JamieL, "both these companies are in it for 1 thing alone, PROFIT" Yes both are out to make profit but the prioritisation of where profit lies in the scheme of things is important and Sony puts tech above profit. Hence why they take huge risks on things like Cell, CD, DVD, Betamax, Blu-ray, Eyetoy, Wonderbook etc. Not everything pans out in the way they want but they go all in and they treat customers with respect, they even talk openly with them instead of shoving PR lines like 'don't like it buy a 360' or 'don't know em'. Sony respects it's customers and it goes a long way. "Do you know why everything in the world is manufactured in China." Not everything is manufactured in China, Sony still make their TV's in Japan. You blame everyone as having a poisoned mindset of how the world works but you are only seeing the bad side of business and expect everyone to be the same. Not everyone is.
@ BitbyDeath Ok, you go on thinking these Corporations are pushing tech for the "good of mankind" or to "advance us" and stay defending them against REAL PEOPLE, I am going to see it, how it is. I would also like to ask you why the great customer loving humanitarians at Sony had the PS4 made in China? I can tell you why. It’s cheaper and they don’t have to worry about Japans environmental regulations. Please don’t defend corporations to me, and try to tell me they care at all. Profit that’s what they are after period, if they don’t think it’ll make a profit it won’t get done. Disprove that if your argument holds any water. Tell me one thing on this earth that is done just because? Unless it is a person doing something they personally want to do, there is nothing. The medical industry is a perfect example of my argument. These companies aren’t out to cure a damn thing. They just want to treat it and drag it out as long as possible for a steady check. I may be a bit on the extreme side on this particular issue, but this world isn’t the shining rainbow you just described either. It would be nice if it was, but it’s not even a little like that.
if MS truly want to stay in the console market I think this beating they are starting to take will be good for them. MAYBE they will drop the arrogance and actually listen to their customers.
THEY BOTH WANT MONEY, BUT SONY DID IT BETTER. Sony made their console appealing to the consumer. Microsoft made unpopular and forceful decisions.
"Cash rules everything around me, C.R.E.A.M get the money, dollar dollar bill y'all" - Wu Tang Clan *fixed* awesome line
I love narrowminded Xbox thinking, it's always good for a laugh. This idea that making money has to come at the cost of the consumer is a very Microsoft attitude. To the two people responding to me, repeating "Sony is in it to make money" ad nauseum, my answer to you is a hearty "Well Duh" What you don't seem to understand is that Sony's way of making money is to respect the wishes and desires of their consumer base with the PS4. They listened to GAMERS, not to corporate bullsh*t. They sought help from DEVELOPERS, not television studio executives and pro-corporate research. I don't know where you get this idea that you can't make money by making your consumers happy, but not only is that wrong but it's also a terrible indictment of your priorities. Just because a company wants to make money, doesn't mean they have to be Microsoft about it. Treat your consumers and their money with respect, and you'll create brand loyalty worth more than initial profit. Listen to what your consumer base is telling you, and they'll sink more and more money into your products and services than when you TELL them what they want/like. Can you guess what Microsoft's approach is and why it fails?
Well ill admit it MS had this opportunity to turn this around soo far i haven't seen much of that. Ive heard more about there kinnect than what new future games they have coming I beleave its going to be like xbox360 all over again if thats soo with the momentum sony has now with there own library of exclusives and bought studios If MS sits back leans on multi-platform again don't think they be in good shape for another xbox.
@ Dragon & club You know what you are all right. I am a fool for trying to make a simple real world point on this site. All I am talking about is simple realities of this world and it gets warped into a Sony Vs. Ms bull$hit useless conversation. I know Sony is god, and cares deeply for each and every one of you. We live in a happy little world and everything is just. Oh, let’s not forget the most important thing, Sony kicks MS's A$$, and 8GB of GDDR5 RAM Hoe!!!!!! Sony$4$foLife. Dragon you were right, this is a gaming site so real world realities have no place here....or anywhere else in society it appears.
@Jamie: What a typical Xbot response: rather than address anything actually said, blow it all off as something nobody really said. What's that called, a straw man argument? Microsoft wants money. Sony wants money. There's nobody who's ever said differently. But you pretty much have to be one of the (apparently many) blind Xbox fanboys on this site and elsewhere to look at the practices of the two companies and say they're the same. EVERY company is out to make money. But there are those that, while successful, will NEVER be considered a "consumer's choice." There are very wealthy companies on the list of "most hated." But, according to you, there's no difference between an FXX and a Prius, because they both drive. Nevermind that they go about it in vastly different ways; since they both get you from point A to point B, they're the same. The ONLY people that ever argue whether all these companies are in it for the money or not are Xbox fanboys, who try to dismiss the fact that Sony AT LEAST pretends to care about the people they're selling their products to, while there's plenty of evidence to suggest that Microsoft doesn't. People like you, JamieL.
@ hick F#$k you and your corporate loving ass. Dragon and I had a much longer conversation by PM, A completely pointless conversation but, I'm not sure why your Sony solider self felt the need to sweep in and set me strait for not worshipping Sony. Good job Captain Corporation. You must have a hard life fighting this super important console war. All else comes second to Sony. You droids are crazier than Scientologist. Edit: you know what Hick, you and dragon are so fast to attack me and call me a xbot when you both pretty much have agreed with my only point. All I was saying is ANY corporation is out for money, caring for the customer NEVER enters into it. EVER. That was all I was saying and you two are calling me names and all "people like YOUing" me. So much hate over a toy. Grow the F#$k up.
Tru It's competition. During thr PS2 era, Sony had upwards to 70% of the console market ad Ninty and MS shared the rest. Sony dominated in every corner of the world. Amazing! Last gen Ninty, MS, and Sony all did extremley well. They all had a nice chuck of the market. Sony no longer had the huge disparity in market share. All three declared last gen a victory. Ninty has had a rough start this gen. Sony on the other hand had the best launch ever for a console! We will have to see how MSs launch will go, but they should have a solid launch. If any of the 3 consoles have 30% or more of the market they will call this gen a victory too. IMO, I hope all 3 do well it's healthy for the industry and stops thes corps from getting to arrogant..."go out and get two jobs to pay for our console"..."Er we are going to cram DRM down your throat and you will like it", etc they all have been arrogant. Keep these companies humble gamers.
I agree with the competition is good sentiment, I just resent the console game exclusive stuff why do I have to pay $1000 for 2 consoles to play the games I like
I don't agree with the competition thing. As you said sony dominated the market with the ps2 which means that even not having competition the ps2 became IMO the best console in the history of gaming. Again even without competition. Sony is IMO the only company right now that is nurturing this industry as much as they are harvesting from it. All the others (especially Microsoft) are just ravaging it, and in tern us.
The X1 will probably be successful, just not as successful as the PS4, i think... Microsoft needs a few bid surprises up their sleeves in they want to sell more then the PS4.
Yeah because you know, the Xb1 has no games compared to the PS4 it has less features and inferior online. Also, Sony has a lot more money than MS.
believe it or not every gamer i know wants the x1 over the ps4. i went with ps4 this gen. tryin to talk someone into buying one, no luck though, guess its just me and some strangers lol. x1 will have success if you see what i seeing.
i dont think it's completely over for the XBOX One, but I don't think the XBOX One is going to bring in the kind of revenue that Microsoft Corp and its investors are hoping for. And because some of Microsoft's high power investors are sour to lukewarm on the XBOX brand as a whole, this may provide them with enough ammo to do away with the XBOX brand once and for all. We'll have to wait and see how it all plays out.
I think MS is getting Google Buiseness model envy seems like they are focusing on tablet/mobile phone/search engine so I agree with you Persistantthug
Yes and when it was PS2 dominated less people played also. Once the Dreamcast sunk I didn't buy a console for almost 2 years. I end up buying and Original Xbox and PS2. They both were great. You probably wouldn't have gotten a Halo and a ton of other games if it wasn't for Microsoft entering the game industry. Competition is good.
@DoubleM70 Halo would've come out without XBOX. It was first shown at a Macworld conference. Though it probably wouldn't have been as big as it is.
Don't be delusional and play the crystal ball holder.... How can something be over that hasn't even started yet MS haven't even released their console yet? so how can the market share be gained or lost????? Price is a not a very good deterrent for people buying what they want.... Sony with the ps3 and apple with their products are good examples.heck some cell phones cost more than both consoles... yes cell phones!!!!! If u want something ur gonna buy it regardless Again I keep telling ppl pre orders are not an accurate indication of future numbers. its interesting nonetheless but in the accounting books u debit cash and credit cost of item sold not pre order numbers and items sold This is n4g and logic gets lost here so easily, solace and democracy seems alien Again both consoles will sell well early on and be appreciated by the buyers and sellers.... its the gamers part of this whole equation that seems unsatisfied worrying about numbers that don't affect them in anyway..... Kinect has the Guinness record for fastest selling electronic despite ppl saying it was an over priced piece of beta crap All am saying is let the numbers fall where they may... this mines is better than yours is just silly
@VoiceMale, I'm sorry, but I've gotta disagree with at least a portion of what you said. The "numbers" do indeed affect us. I can say this with profound conviction because not only do I remember the failing DREAMCAST.......but I was also a purchaser. Business Numbers do in fact matter, sir.
@Persistantthug Fair enough bro but let me ask u this u think that pre order numbers is the culprit to poor sales??? U see what I am saying is the media and us are using pre order numbers to come to conclusions that are not accurate is what I am saying How? U see as marketing pre orders are not recorded..and they don't use these numbers to get their products distributed They use numbers that are not available to us unless u work for either MS or Sony.... that has to do with previous injected sales in each locations, targeted consumers(which might not be u but the other guy) they have boundary spanners, just to mention a few but many things goes into the equations to determine the when how where focus of the item should be in a majority and minority to increase the probability of sales.... This is not arbitrary store stocking, Marketing is in full function for both companies right now..... But unlike Sony as of right now MS has more power in marketing because of their deep pockets so they have the advantage there Now will it skew the market share into their favor???? Only time will tell cause me u nor any media site can't tell u that accurately cause the numbers we are using is guess work... And to answer ur statement about Dreamcast I too had a Dreamcast, I still do, but numbers never killed off that system bad marketing and excellent competition form Sony did
no its obviously not over for ms ,they are at hard work for every thing ,their games ,their entertainment facilities and alll over experience of their conole ,like releasing 1st party studios for which they can make more better games for xb1 which can stay on the divice forever rather than becoming multiplats ,with gaming they have also promised entertainment related things and they are working hard for where ever the console launch ,things can change in the blink like they changed at e3 2013 and there is more 10 years left for both conoles and we are alsive to see it only some monts does not define the things ,it may can also be that,who is discriminting xb1 may can turn to sony and taking side of ms ,we completely dont know and changes may can come when xb1 launch or things can go worse when the device comesout we dont know but we must expect something good.
I think we can agree Sony will likely win Europe and Asia. The biggest question is north america, which I think is at least favoring Sony. Most games stops say there are a lot more ps4 Preorders, and the ones that have more x1 preorders have just barely more.
Why do Naughty Dog keep commenting on the Xbox One? I don't hear 343industries commenting on the pros and cons of the PS4... Get off your high horse Naughty Dog. Couldn't care less what you think.
Maybe because they're part of the industry, and backed by the Xbox One's competitor? What the hell? You make it sound as if they came out attacking, when they've really been pretty classy about it all. Besides, they were asked the question. It's not like they held a press conference for this. They were interviewed, and the interviewer brought up the question. If you don't care, why the hell are you here complaining? Plenty of pro-XB1 articles out there for you to drop your two cents in.
The guy was fired by Sony , I also think his trying to defend the X1 in a way
Sorry dudes! Just getting tired of he said she said. This last few months have been exhausting trying to find quality information and I guess I just got irritated by the article. I know it's actually more of a positive bit of info, I'm just having a bad day.
Competition is good for the market. The collapse of either would greatly damage the industry. Let's just hope Nintendo redeems themselves because the market seems best with 3 contenders.
Yeah there's been a lot of fat ladies singing since the announcement and the console isn't even released yet. I know I had some remarks about the X1 but those were from a personal standpoint about issues I had with the 360 like paying for other services that were free and some others. In the end I don't really care how the X1 does since I'm not getting one but for those who are. Good for them. Enjoy
So now people care about USA sales? Hilarious. Spend 8 years talking about how the Xbox 360 dominates the PS3 in the USA and it's spun to World Wide talk... and not that the PS4 is popular, it's all about the USA numbers. Imagine that.
I think that's the point. XBOX gets the majority of it's sales in the US. So if they lose US sales, it doesn't look good for them.
Exactly. So now USA matters to them. It didn't matter to them when Xbox was stealing Playstation numbers crushing the USA Champion last gen. But now it matters. I know.
"It may not be over, but Sony is in a way stronger position than it was last time around. " Where are you getting these amazingly uninformed statements from? The only thing Sony has an advantage on is a $100 price difference and a week head start on retail sales. The fact remains that Microsoft is a far stronger company financially and due to their massive client network courtesy of the fact that pretty much every business in the nation has ties in one way or another via Microsoft's consumer and enterprise operating solutions. All this has huge implications when contracts are signed because there is much Microsoft can do for fledgling developers who need to increase their exposure.
@allformats I think he is baseing his answer on the amount of fanboys who are claiming that MS lost this generation already. When in fact it has just started. Also saying the hold on the american market is over is going to far. Lets let time dictate what really transpires. Note: This has been an ongoing battle for an entire generation. It is time that we all go back to having fun and forgetting about whats on paper and actually enjoying games. If we continue on this trend it won't be our companies failing us it will be us failing us with negative press. In all honesty once the several million hardcore buyers purchase it is the casuals who have to come in and get excited about these systems. Lets not ruin the one hobby that really gets us excited and lets embrace it. I know I am going to get disagrees oh well.
You do know the only reason PS3 caught up to 360 was because of japan right? They stopped selling 360 in Japan years ago. If you took Japan completely out of the equation it would not even be close.
You people have to ask, why he left Sony in the first place.... This guy seems to know a lot.. especially after that part-time job over at THQ.
No one has said it is over, Microsoft will have a great launch probably the 2nd biggest in history behind the ps4. I don't think it will be over at all this gen for either machine and I am looking forward to seeing how each company one ups each other throughout this gen.
of course it won't be over .. damn it's the same at every launch
Might not be quite as big as ps4 launch but I sure hope it goes smoother!
please Naughty Dog .. just shut up and make good games!
one does not simply tell any member from naughty dog to shut up.
Yeah,, Naughty Dog STFU and just try to do as good as you did with UC2.. you haven't since.
Naughty dog has earned the right to talk and share their wisdom because they make the best games in the biz (my opinion)
Jason Rubin didn't talk on behalf of ND, because he's former ND president (and also co-founder of ND along with with Gavin). Im surprised a lot of people didnt know that. Ignorance is bliss.
once a naughty dog, always a naughty dog.
they already make good games but this statement proves they are more intelligent then you think ,these people knows better than us ,they may have get to know that ms is also making its own new exclusives as we know ms have anounced that they will be aaa or aaaa titles which will bring good competition to them at making exclusives and they know that its only just some few monts have passed and xb1 is not out on stores and anything can happen and we realy dont know which one will be better console of chouise ,price does not define which is a better game.
Plenty of people/fanboys have said that it was over for the Xbox One even before any of the consoles have been released.
I did too the moment Sony announced their price at E3. If Microsoft hadn't of done the 180s, they would have really been fighting against it.