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Submitted by s8anicslayer 256d ago | news

How Mandatory Game Installations Will Work On PS4

Call it installation or call it caching, but the bottom line is that you will have to save large chunks of PlayStation 4 games to the system's hard drive. It's not an option. It's mandatory on Sony's next-gen system. Today, at a stylish waterfront hotel in New York City that's been taken over by Sony for all things PS4, the system's lead architect, Mark Cerny, explained just how these requirements work. (Mark Cerny, PS4)

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Lukas_Japonicus  +   256d ago | Well said
Physical gaming ftw! No need to buy a new HDD for quite some time for me. Ill just delete the install data when im done with a certain game...then if i want to play it again i will just re install it and start playing while it is doing so. Nice.
#1 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(99) | Disagree(12) | Report | Reply
slimeybrainboy  +   256d ago
I agree with Lukas Japdolski!!!
Lukas_Japonicus  +   256d ago
LOL, i think ill use that for my next PSN ID or gamertag if anything happens to my current one, if you don't mind XD.
darthv72  +   256d ago
Why cant the ps4 just play from the disc?

edit...i guess it wasnt designed to do that. oh well. At least it will vary from title to title in regards to how long you wait to play after a game begins to install.
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dantesparda  +   256d ago
You's make it sound like its no problem, no problem at all, when in reality is it, its gonna eat up the HDD way to quick. Heck even if they had included a 1TB HDD, i would still be concerned. They need to come up with a better solution than this im my opinion
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Ju  +   256d ago
There is no waiting with the disk version of a game. The game runs off the disk but installs in parallel during the first run. After that it runs from HDD. You won't need to wait. It's nothing like PS3. You wouldn't even notice it installs - until you run out of HDD space.

It differs from online, where you have to download a certain amount of the game.
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Gridloc  +   256d ago
Ted would use Lukas Japdolbrewski....
ShinMaster  +   256d ago
@ dantesparda

After about 12 games maybe. But I don't think I'll be playing 12 major titles at the same time, back to back.
EPiCDiNGO   256d ago | Spam
CaddyLss  +   256d ago
@ EPiCDiNGO thats not the point. it doesnt matter if i can switch out the HDD in 2.5 secs. If im going to pay for a new system, 2 games, ps plus, warrenty, a extra controller, maybe the cam for the total exp of the ps4...You expect a bigger HDD.. I guess sony just wants us to drop a cool 9 bills for a complete game exp that will last us a solid of 7 years of gaming.. SMH dont even get me started on the no mp3 music on the ps4.. lol
rainslacker  +   256d ago
@Caddy

Or, you could do what you do on the PC, the X1, the 360, the Wii U, or the PS3, and just delete the installation files of games you don't play anymore.

From the looks of things, once the initial "cache" of the game is installed, you can start playing while the rest of it installs. It's not like now where you have to wait forever for it to install.

Unrelated to your post:

I do hope Sony offers the option in the future to auto-delete games which haven't been booted in a while. I'll likely be getting a larger hard disc though when the prices and sizes go up more.
MazzingerZ  +   256d ago
I agree as well but for some reason I get the feeling last gen and this one, many still don't know game data and save data are 2 different things, that you can save one without affecting the other
JackBNimble  +   256d ago
@Caddylss

500GB does seem kind of small when games are so big, but at least with the PS4 you have options to upgrade the hdd unlike the xboxone.

Being a PC gamer I have all my games installed on my hdd, and I prefer it that way. I am going to upgrade to the largest hdd that I can.

You can't be mad about having options.
Ju  +   256d ago
"You expect a bigger HDD"...why? $399...you'd expect more than 500Gigs...maybe your expectation is wrong here.
Brutallyhonest  +   255d ago
Cache on the fly is a lot better than waiting for a mandatory install.

From what was reported yesterday from RGN, the X1 requires a mandatory install for their games. If this turns out to be true I would much rather buy a game, put the disc in the console and go right to gaming over waiting for it to fully install before I can play it.
kreate  +   255d ago
again, its the same thing as the ps3's installs.
sure its mandatory with ps4 but its pretty much the same thing. not really news. stop recycling the same news that the ps3 already does and make it sound like its exclusive to ps4.
juggulator  +   255d ago
KZ Shadowfall is 45gb required HDD space. That's a huge didference from the 5mb that KZ3 required. Its obviously a sign of how huge the game may be but hopefully GG can minimize that load as they work more with the PS4.
dantesparda  +   255d ago
Im sorry but you fanboys are being stupid here. You's all know damn well that this is an issue, especially with all the free Plus games coming. The PS4's HDD is like 408Gb's after formatting and the system takes it reserves and with games being between 30-50GBs, its going to get filled up quick. I dont want to have to manage storage (at least not so quickly). I want to be able to have many games on it, not just a dozen. This is fanboyism gone bad. This is worst than a PS3 with a 320GB HDD, cuz at least on that you can put way more games on it than you can on the PS4's larger HDD, Im getting 3 (maybe 4) games and then there is Resogun, Contrast and all the the F2P games. There goes half the HDD right off the rip. And its only just begun
Lunarassassin  +   256d ago
That's what i plan on doing. Just delete the game and not your save.
I don't see why people are upgrading their HDD when you can just delete the game and spend the saved money on more games!
Lukas_Japonicus  +   256d ago
Exactly. Spend a few minutes deleting some data or buy some new games. Easy choice. Unless you have a preposterous amount of games to juggle.
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DonMingos  +   256d ago
People are upgrading HDD and allways will on ps4 because PS+ is to big, to fast, to strong, to good... (Stacey King style)
Underworld  +   256d ago
I don't like deleting and reinstalling. Plus, add on all the DLC and all the content from PS+, and it's not gonna take long to fill it up, even with deleteing some game installs.
badz149  +   256d ago
there should be 1 reason and 1 reason only that people are planning to upgrade their PS4's HDD is because PS+!
aCasualGamer  +   256d ago
See, i'm a little pissed at Mark Cerny and Sony. What is it with these companies and their marketing? You can't say one thing, and then not deliver on it when people buy the products.

----------------
If a PS4 user decides to download a game, they will have to wait longer to play. Cerny couldn't provide as narrow an estimate on how long a player who decided to download Knack would have to wait. That depends in large part on a user's Internet connection speed. Ideally, he said, they wouldn't have to wait more than >>>>> an hour <<<<<< before beginning to play the partially downloaded games. Other games may be set up differently, allowing users to start playing them sooner or requiring them to wait longer. With these kinds of download speeds and requirements, players may want to queue their PS4 downloads long before they want to start gaming or download in the background while doing something else. Or just drive to the store and get a disc.
----------------

From Playstation Meeting, Mark Cerny: "PS4 has a secondary custom chip that manages uploads and downloads... and we're taking this further, digital games can be played even while they're being downloaded. When you purchase a digital title >>>>you download a fraction of the data and begin playing<<<<< the rest is being downloaded in the background as you continue to play."

Since when is an hour a fraction of the download time?
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yellowgerbil  +   256d ago
an hour is a amazingly fast amount of time considering you are downloading nearly 50GB of data. I downloaded Hitman on PS+ it was 17gb, it took 11hrs to download the ENTIRE thing. So with my internet connection if I download knack the ENTIRE game would take like 24hrs to download. So the 1 hour fraction is incredibly convenient
aCasualGamer  +   256d ago | Well said
I'm really pissed. I mean, people aren't talking about these kinds of manipulative marketing when it comes to Sony, only to Microsoft.

I'm sick of all the fanboyism. It's right to Microsoft when they have shitty policies. I fully support that! BUT i also fully support any criticism against Sony for lying and making it seem PS4 is heaven on earth, when it's really not that innovative as we expected from Playstation Meeting. I mean, i remember going away from watching that meeting that i was going to get a true nextgen experience come launch. But now i don't think that it'll happen. It will just be a slightly upgraded PS3/PC with the only innovation being put in the hands of game developers.

Yes, it's amazing that Visual Concepts are pushing for nextgen experince... unlike other companies... but that shouldn't be it when purchasing $400 consoles.
Outside_ofthe_Box  +   256d ago
Reading comprehension is your friend.

***"you download a fraction of the data and begin playing"***

Where in this line is download ***TIME*** even mentioned? The answer is that it isn't.

How quickly you get to play depends on how quickly you can download. This is how it's ALWAYS going to be when it come to downloads. If you have extremely slow internet don't expect to play your games within 5 minutes... Let's be real now, you can't expect to play a game with only 5 kilobytes worth of data.... lol

***"i also fully support any criticism against Sony for lying and making it seem PS4 is heaven on earth, when it's really not that innovative as we expected from Playstation Meeting."***

The "innovation" isn't how quickly you get to play, but rather how much you have to download before being able to playing instead of having to download the entire game before being able to play. No company can control how fast your internet is expect your internet provider. Either get on the phone and see if you can upgrade your service or simply get a better internet provider if you are unimpressed with your download speeds. Don't blame Sony or MS for your poor internet.
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thehitman  +   256d ago
@aCasusalGamer

Not sure if you are genuinely mad or just trolling.. BUT ill give you the benefit of the doubt.

Try downloading anything off the internet from ANY server that is more then 1gb in size and see how long it takes. Then compare that to 30-50gb size games. I would probably never want to buy a digital copy this gen unless its lower than 10gb in size and its an arcade or psn only title. The time in which you can downloand and play is almost SOLELY based off your OWN connection speeds. Mark was just giving a ruff estimate. There is nothing deceitful in what Sony has done or claimed. In fact you can already do it on the ps3 its the SAMETHING!!! there are no smoke and mirrors like what MS does so please dont compare Sony to MS its pretty disrespectful.
aCasualGamer  +   256d ago
@outsidethebox

When did i mention my internet speed?

I simply said that saying "you only need to download a fraction of the download and start playing" is a bit misleading when you take into account what he said in this article, that it'll take minimum of an hour to start playing.

AN hour is alot. It's stupid beyond belief to even mention "you only have to download.... before you can play" when in reality it'll take an hour. It was said in a way that made it seem it was being able to give players instant game downloads.

And you need reading comprehension not me. I never said anything about internet speed. I personally have pretty good internet speeds on my wireless router.
Ju  +   256d ago
Excuse me...maybe you should respect physical boundaries and not accuse people of lying. It is physically impossible to "stream" 50GB of data in a way that you can start playing immediately. This quite a technical challenge and calling Sony liars is disrespectful. Some data simply must be available for a game to function (random access) and are simply not suited for "streaming" over the internet. Some games can be partitioned into levels and this can be loaded ahead and is the minimum of data the game needs to function. Over time this will hopefully be streamlined and optimized, but today, this size is ~7GB to begin with.
aCasualGamer  +   256d ago
@hitman

Why would you think i'm trolling? Is it because it's against Sony? Dude, lay off with the fanboy shit. I don't follow brands, in fact i've been a PS owner since i started gaming, i haven't bought an xbox. I've played many times on it but have never bought one.

Yes, i do believe it's deceitful to say it in a way that makes people think it will be fast to play downloadable games... but i don't thin an hour is fast. He probably should have mentioned that on the PS Meeting so people don't get confused later, like myself.

Yes, i believe it is deceitful. I really enjoyed and got excited during the PS Meeting. It was one of the features i was mostly looking forward to... you know since the PS4 is supposed to "simple, immediate... etc".

There was some magic after that meeting about the PS4 and how the user experience would be like. It's gone now. I don't feel a sense of excitement for the PS4 UI or the user experience. I only expect it to be like PS3, which is sad considering this is a new generation and i wanted something new. This goes hand in hand with my disappointment over the lack of "immediate" download and play from PSN store. But hey, if i'm the only one with balls enough to talk about it then so be it.
aCasualGamer  +   256d ago
@ju

Listen, i'm not too familiar with the technical requirements for games to work, but i figured they would stream the first part of the game until the download was at a point where it could start playing from the HDD. But what can i say, it isn't the reality we'll see come 15th november. I guess i really did expect something "impossible" to be possible with a next generation console. Call it too high expectations if you want but it seemed like that was the least to expect during the meeting conference.

I'll never make that mistake ever again when it comes to Sony.

edit: And don't say i'm not understanding the physics of how large games are and how slow downloads really are... just watch Sonys trailer of the user interface and you tell me if that took a minimum of an hour or a couple of seconds(took him about 30 seconds to be exact) for the guy to download and start playing the multiplayer portion of Killzone Shadow Fall...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

That's the magic i'm speaking of... the true PS4 user experience... not the "an hour to download and start playing" experience.
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thehitman  +   256d ago
@ Casual

After reading your last two posts it seems you are confusing what this all is.

1) There is the installations that work when you buy a physical disc from a retailer. You put it in start it and it installs. The game can take probably 1-5minutes before you can play it while its still installing. It probably will be the same for xbox.

http://n4g.com/news/1391724...

This article for reference its not an hour if you bought the game from the store.

2) The hour Mark was talking about is when you start downloading the game from the PSN store as a digital game. That time is MUCH longer because the data rate is solely based off your connection. Data transfer speed of the internet is not as fast as a physical disc.

I hope that clears things up for you. If you still have problems then idk what to say to you or what you expect... and I would have to conclude you are really trolling or dumb.
Rhaigun  +   256d ago
I honestly don't know what you expected. How long do you think it takes to download games digitally on the PS3? Now consider the fact that games now are 10x that size. That fact that you can start playing within an hour, is amazing. By the point, you will have only downloaded something like 4% of the total game.
Outside_ofthe_Box  +   256d ago
First off...

***"And you need reading comprehension not me. I never said anything about internet speed"***

Huh? Why'd you say this then?

***"Since when is an hour a fraction of the download time?"***

The amount of ***TIME*** it takes for you to download something depends on your internet speed, no?

The hour Cerny gave was an estimate based off what he thinks the average gamer's internet connection speed is. The faster your internet the less time you have to wait which is why I brought up internet speed. Your issue is the amount of time you have to wait, isn't? So if you want to decrease the time you have to wait then you have to increase the speed of your internet. That is why I made the suggestion...

***"It was said in a way that made it seem it was being able to give players instant game downloads."***

I'm sorry you got that impression, but that just isn't possible right now. Instant game downloads? How would that be possible without fast internet connection speed? Also note that he said "ideally you ***WOULDN'T*** have to wait more than an hour" So it's possible for you to have a waiting time of less than an hour... it isn't the minimum, but in actuality the average. So if your connection is indeed faster than average like you claimed then you'd be done well before an hour has passed assuming Cerny's estimate is accurate. So you're good to go and should have no worries...
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Sevir  +   256d ago
Its a case by case basis with some of these games. also keep in mind that not all games will have this feature, and i suspect that open world games wont while more linear games will support this feature.

in reference to your complaint, what was said at the PS4 conference in feb, where a gamer can buy a game from the PS store Download a fraction of the game and play while the rest downloads, is not a lie, o far whats been documented out there so far is that most games in linear progression is able to execute and start playing after the user has downloaded 7gb of the digital title. Killzone Shadow Fall is confirmed as the first to have that small a requirement...

Now the caveat here, is how fast your connection is, It took me 6 hours to download Hitman Absolution on my connection and that was a 17gb game on PS3 from the PSN store... by comparison, Remember Me took me 1 hour and that game totaled in at 6.5gb.

You simply cant expect to beable to play a digital game immediately after you start a download, its far more technical. Cerny stating that it may take an hour for gamers is as rough as he can get. he's got no way give a precise response because Download speed is all based on the quality of your ISP's network and how much bandwidth they are willing to give you without capping and throttling you.

I think you should temper your expectations, In our current connected lives, ALL digital is still in its infancy and just not feasible, The world itself still isn't 100% on broadband, internet connections in first world countries are variables at best! You're ok with going physical!
rocky047586  +   256d ago
"That's the magic i'm speaking of... the true PS4 user experience... not the "an hour to download and start playing" experience." aCasualGamer

There's reality and then there's fantasy, what you want isn't in the realm of reality and has been explained to you a lot over the course of this post. I'm a bit late but I still thought I'd say this anyway. It's like getting angry at a TV show for showing someone traveling from America to Japan in 10 minutes!

It's a commercial to show off what the PS4 can do, time elapses will occur to show off what the system can do. So when he started the multiplayer download in the store then went back to Knack you have to assume SOME time went by before he could actually play it.
JackBNimble  +   256d ago
"That depends in large part on a user's Internet connection speed. Ideally, he said, they wouldn't have to wait more than an hour before beginning to play the partially downloaded games. Other games may be set up differently, allowing users to start playing them sooner or requiring them to wait longer".

If this is a problem for you then buy the disc based game and play with in minutes.

EDIT: By the way , nowhere does he say minimum an hour.
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Hicken  +   256d ago
Maybe you're not trolling, but you certainly are bitching about nothing.

Read it. Again. Whether it's physical or digital, you can play the game while it downloads/installs. Meaning you don't really have to wait forever to start playing.

Furthermore, a 1 hour download for the file size you're acquiring is damn good. Obviously, it's gonna depend on your internet connection, but grabbing 30+GB in an hour or so is impressive no matter how you slice it.

And you even twist your own words around:

"you download a fraction of the data and begin playing"

"Since when is an hour a fraction of the download time?"

You're pissed at Sony because your reading comprehension skills are lacking. Again, you may not be trolling, but if you calm your happy ass down and take the time to process the words in front of your eyes, you'd have your answers, and far less pointless anger.
AndrewLB  +   256d ago
You guys are hilarious! How the hell is it "disrespectful" to call out Sony on comments that were clearly meant to deceive?? You act as if Sony is your mother and someone just called her fat. LoL!

You guys need to understand that Sony lies, Microsoft Lies, and even your Mother lies. Heck, I just saw a great youtube video which clearly showed Obama lie 20+ times about us being able to keep our healthcare plans... period. Yet Just this last week 15 million Americans had their insurance canceled because for example my policy didn't have maternity and prenatal care. WTF"??

I respect the office but not the man. And he's a liar. Just like Sony in this instance. :)
aCasualGamer  +   255d ago
@outsidethebox @rocky @hicken and others...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

This is a video from a year back demonstrating how fast the downloads is through Gaikai... which Sony bought. It takes a couple of seconds before this man has booted up FIFA 12 from download.

I was expecting something like this because it was demonstrated to work in this trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

In conjunction with what Mark Cerny said about downloads only taking a fraction of what they used to take.

NOW... you can call me out and say "Hey, you had too much expectations, and that's not possible"

BUT! It's not like my argument was based on air. I actually made references to my claims by both Mark Cerny and Sony's marketing team.

So why are you attacking me for being mad at Sony for bringing me something less than what was advertised? I'm not attacking a brand nor am i a fanboy, but you guys act like i am.

I'm just trying to understand why "a fraction of the download" means "an hour" in general terms.

YES! I do understand that downloading 50GB of data takes ALOT of time. My internet speed is really good, i donwload 5GB in less than 50 minutes. My point isn't "hey if you have faster speeds you can download faster" DUH! My point is that they advertised it differently.

Now we can argue back and forth over this but that doesn't take anything away from my argument that THEY ADVERTISED IT THEMSELVES!!!! It was in their commercial, their conference speech and some unconfirmed gaikai tech demo video.... SOOOO, it's only natural to think that that's what the PS4 will be like.

Not enough... okey... here is another part from the PS Meeting explaining how Gaikai can make "Instant play" work for downloadable games on PS Store(ala the PS4 trailer i linked earlier).

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Starts at 2:30 into the video.

Please don't start saying "hey it's download speed that matters and nothing else". I UNDERSTAND that download speed is vital. But an hour and what they were advertising earlier, there is a difference there.

Call it high expectations or not, but you can't argue the fact that they did market it differently.
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darthv72  +   255d ago
Perhaps acasual is likening the download and play side to how you purchase a digital movie. There is a certain amount of data that is buffered before the movie plays but it usually starts playing within a couple of minutes.

i know a game can be much larger than a movie but the concept is still the same. so it should only take a couple of minutes to buffer a portion of the game data to allow the player to actually begin their game.

The player plays while the game continues to install/buffer.

What acasual seems rather vocal about is the percentage of the game data requirement will be roughly 7gb (as an example) for certain games and much smaller for others. Its that 7gb buffer having to fill up (install) before the game can even be started.

He isnt that far off base. Digital game should be like on demand instead of having to wait an hour (just for example) to begin play. obviously a physical game will let you start playing within minutes of putting the disc in. If they can refine their digital process to be 10 minutes from start of download to the game start process then we are talking.

i believe that IS what gaikai is touting as the future delivery system for PS digital games but it isnt ready.....yet.
JamieL  +   255d ago
Wow aCas, I guess no one here can see past there "Sony defense mechanisms. I understand what you are saying, ALL tech aside they did make it seem that it would be so much faster. They advertised it wrong, I don't know what else to call that but a lie. They made it seem like it’s would be this "super amazing NEW thing" and it is not. now everyone else is here calling you out when that is 100% true. It came off to me the same way, with the alien fast RAM and duel reading whatever’s, I thought it was about to do some amazing "NEW" stuff. Not the same old but a little better stuff. That’s how it’s been on this site since the announcement. The PS4 is just so far advanced for so cheap MS has no chance. All that from a company hanging by a thread. A little too good to be true? I don’t know but I do know that’s why they are so quick to discount your legitimate concern. Imagine if this was a MS problem, I don’t think they would be so understanding, and you’re not even a fanboy and they turn on you so fast.
wsoutlaw87  +   256d ago
10 minutes is way better than some of the installs this gen even though its over 30 gb. There new system is much better.
sypher  +   256d ago
He didn't say 10 minutes. He said 10s of seconds. You won't see an install bar or anything, the game will just play seamlessly. Doing the cache/install as you are playing in the background. That initial 10s of seconds you will be waiting is to load the initial boot for you to begin playing (menus etc)

:)
RedHawk02  +   256d ago
I agree with you completely. Some games just don't need to always be on the hard drive.
JunkieJedi  +   256d ago
That's all very well and good - but it's when it comes to down to PlayStation Plus that things start to get a little more complicated than that when it comes to storage.
tanis_halfelven  +   256d ago
Oh Dang Sony gives me too many free games! I Have no HD Space! :)

#PS4Problems
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Jaqen_Hghar  +   256d ago
As long as you stay subbed (not sure why you wouldn't) you can redownload any games that have been free at any time during your subscription. A man just redownloaded Borderlands which had long been off the IGC.
Blaze929  +   256d ago
the fact that its mandatory installs on both PS4 and Xbox One lead me to believe both companies were planning similar ideas for DRM.

"The disc installation is required on PS4 because the console is not designed to read games off of discs. "

So pretty much, similar to MS's original XB1 approach, discs after their first use would not be needed anymore really. But obviously the backlash might have changed that for both companies.

If we see the return of online passes lol then well, i guess we know why.

Just a thought
darthv72  +   256d ago
it does seem like both were on a similar path at least in regards to game installs.
14Feb-R  +   256d ago
I think they had a deal with specs but not in policies. Never saw sony being so greedy like MS except for online not being free any more. As for installs i think it's common sense to do the same thing since both are using the same Blue ray tech ...
XboxFun  +   256d ago
Very interesting thought Blaze. It does sound like both had the same ideas for games.

Of course one was a little bit better at hiding it than the other.
thehitman  +   256d ago
@ Blaze

In the article Mark Cerny explains the reason for it that developers didnt like the bottleck of the loading from the discs and the HDD was faster. However I still think there should always be an option and hopefully something is done about it later on in the generation. I normally dont come back to games after I finish beating them but I also dont like having to worry about clearing space all the time either. This maybe my biggest gripe with next-gen. I did buy a 1TB HD for my PC that I might end up swapping into my ps4 will see...
PsylentKiller  +   256d ago
Beat me to it. Sony had similar policies in place but the royal screw up by MS made them think twice. Although, I didn't see anything wrong with their idea of what the future of gaming should be like. It was their idea of how to execute that plan that I had a problem with.
Sevir  +   256d ago
If thats what you think then you are looking at a reason to drag them into MS's own pit falls,

Mark clearly stats the reason for this is because it was faster to read information from the HDD in comparison to the disc. Not because Sony was on a path to DRM but changed heart because MS came under fire!

The technology of streaming or reading from HDD has even been present on the 360 in which you can install a whole game to the HDD from the disc and have it read from the HDD. Its nothing foreign.

MS's plans for the xbox is their own plans, and you were very much ready to accept it and you were wishing the PS4 and Sony would follow suit!

doesnt make sense, They Announced the console in FEB 2013, and the opening of it was play games the way you enjoy them on PS3. but you'd miss that if you were looking for reasons to say Sony was up to no good.
rainslacker  +   256d ago
And? That isn't the case. So what's your point?

The fact that it's mandatory installs on both PS4 and Xbox One lead me to believe that both companies looked for ways to improve game performance by using the much faster hard drive to store content. Optical media is painfully slow, particularly when it has to fill up 4-6 GB's of memory. Have fun with those loading screens without installing it.

Funny how what I was lead to believe and what you were lead to believe could both be right, however, in my case, I'm sure that at least the end result was correct.

Quite frankly, MS probably would have had mandatory installs regardless of their DRM policies for the same reason Cerny stated. Hell, most of the big AAA games nowadays don't even use the optical drive for data loading.
#1.7.7 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report
MarkusMcNugen  +   256d ago
BL3H. Sony is just like any other company and wants to make as much money as possible. They dont really care about gamers, they just put that facade on to trick you into thinking they care. Microsoft and Nintendo do the exact same thing too.

For all corporations its about the bottom line. Thats why they can spend insane amounts of money on R&D which will be recouped as long as the system sells decent and they arent losing a profit on every console sold.

Both Microsoft and Sony took this route which is why certain other aspects of the system seem to be drull. Namely the HDD. They are very cheap these days, but if that one item was going to put them in the red for every console sold, then they say screw it. The gamers can spend more money on another HDD, just as long as they are making a profit.

Think about it. This is the first time in the past two generations where the console isnt be sold at a loss at launch.
#1.7.8 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(1) | Report
ZBlacktt  +   256d ago
Comment sounds familiar, lol.

http://n4g.com/news/1388593...
#1.8 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
Lukas_Japonicus  +   256d ago
*checks link*

First sentence is similar.
s8anicslayer  +   256d ago
True, but a 2tb HD never hurt no one..;).
#1.9 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Lukas_Japonicus  +   256d ago
True, true. I guess i will have to get one at one point when i have a mass amount of games, but i think the standard 500GB will do me fine for a long time.
s8anicslayer  +   256d ago
Yeh but the size of these games are such a factor now, and 500gb is hardly enough.
AndrewLB  +   256d ago
Yea... $150 later. And you can't use an external, which sucks. It would be nice to be able to use a 3tb external 3.5" drive ($119 @ newegg) because it's much faster than laptop 2.5" drives. Guess that's a +1 for xbone.
Mosiac77  +   256d ago
i don't mind not playing it from the disc. when you install it the system is quieter because the drive is not running. in my 360 i install all my games when i play it. Personally i think the system will last longer. it is easier to replace the hard drive if it goes bad vs the disc tray.
CaddyLss  +   256d ago
But what will you do when you D/L plus games that you like and want to keep. Mind you that i know theres enough GB for now.. But if this is going to be a 8 years system..Then 500GB is as much as a joke as 20gb system. (mind you that i share dlc with my gf and friend as they do with me) AH the waiting game here we go again.. hopefully sony doesnt take too long b4 they re-milk the gamers with a decent size HDD model.
showtimefolks  +   256d ago
So both consoles are taking the same route, great now one less issue fanboys will fight and argue over

Can't wait be gamers not fanboys
clouds5  +   256d ago
Haha. N4G... Let me translate that.
"This sucks, but I'm so in love with Sony and PS4 that not even the fact that I have to install every game like on PC and juggling installations or invest money in a bigger harddrive right away can change my fanboyism.
I JUST TURN THIS INTO A GOOD THING IN MY HEAD."

sorry but everyone has to troll once in a while :-) People buy consoles over PC because they are easier to handle? These times are obviously over... And PC has still better graphics.
#1.13 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
boneso82  +   255d ago
All of my comments have more agrees than disagrees yet I have recently lost a bubble? WTF?

Yet this troll above me has 5 bubbles! Who administrates this shit?
#1.14 (Edited 255d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Phoceenatic  +   256d ago
Well at least I will be able to upgrade the size of the drive.
AaronMK  +   256d ago
I don't see the 500GB as small enough to need to upgrade. People usually only stick to a few games they are playing at a given time, and the system can hold at least nine games for instant access with plenty of room for all your saved games.

Swapping something back in from blu-ray it seems takes less than a minute before you are playing.

It will only be an issue if you opt to purchase "digitally" and have to wait hour(s) for enough to download, and on metered Internet, use a good chunk of your monthly data, to swap games in.
Ju  +   256d ago
I'm gonna go with disk less this time. Prefer it on the PS3 and remote play is just the icing on the cake. Means, I can actually pick a game through the Vita without the need to put a disk in. With that said, a 500GB drive only has room for about 10 games. I have much more already on the PS3 and I am constantly full with games much smaller. I hope I can replace it with 1.5TB or a 2TB drive ASAP.
#2.1.1 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report
bobsmith  +   256d ago
large chunks of a game? it better be the whole game so the disc doesnt spin all loud the whole time, like xbox 360 just the first minute to verify it
Irishguy95  +   256d ago
Hope so too, just for the sake of the Disk drive lasting longer and to kill off any potential noise the disk drive may produce as it gets it's wear and tear
bobsmith  +   256d ago
ya man have you played bf4 disc on ps3
the campaign the disc reading sound is so bad non stop the whole time I was cringing didnt even want to finish it. I stopped half way and returned it to red box I have a brand new ps3 slim too.
gona get all my games digital if this is the case. too bad gt6 wont get digital like gt5 but that games good at not having loud disc reading
s8anicslayer  +   256d ago
I don't understand why they just didn't go with 1tb HD's? especially knowing this gen how big the files for these games were.
Aceman18  +   256d ago
doesnt the game still spin while in the drive even after some of the info is installed?
Irishguy95  +   256d ago
Depends, not sure what PS4 is doing. PS3 had partial installs so the disk was required. Xbox had full installs so the disk was essentially DRM. But it only span for the first minute or so to confirm you owned the disk still and didn't sell it. THen it stopped spinning. Xbox 360 installing was basically the same as downloading a game onto your harddrive on either Xbox or Ps3
Aceman18  +   256d ago
that's what i'm wondering if the disc still spins it's not full DRM like some people hope it will be so they can have something to complain about.
BLKxSEPTEMBER  +   256d ago
Scratch that...10 second wait time is not bad at all
#5 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
MasterCornholio  +   256d ago
I'll just back up my saves and when I fill my HDD I will just get a bigger one.

Thank you Sony for giving me permission to replace the HDD.

Nexus 7 2013
1nsomniac  +   256d ago
This is not how Yoshi explained it would work.

He said If you have 2 games both 50gb it's not going to take up 100gb of your console HDD. It will cache the game you are playing while you boot up & while your play.

Once you finish that game it will empty/delete that cache & will repeat the process for the next game & the next & the next.

So which one is it??
Kayant  +   256d ago
He never said it was deleted automatically iirc. It is as explained here why ask the question when it has just been explained?
1nsomniac  +   256d ago
Because I explained exactly how Yoshi explained it & yes he did say about a week or 2 ago that it would automatically delete after you've finished playing it.

That was exactly what he said, which is very different to what is explained here, which is exactly the reason why I asked!
#7.1.1 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report
rainslacker  +   256d ago
I think I'm somewhat confused over what is considered install data, and what is considered cache data. Cache to me implies some sort of virtual storage that is only used when the game is running, and can be loaded from the disc. Install implies that it is actually being installed onto the hard drive for storing the data until you run the game(Which is the current model for installs).

Right now, it seems that most people are assuming they are one in the same, however that may not be the case.
#7.2 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
1nsomniac  +   256d ago
That is exactly correct, that's why Yoshi said it doesn't install, it caches. There 2 completely different things.
#7.2.1 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report
rainslacker  +   256d ago
See that's what I initially thought when I read about caching data. The meaning is in the definition of the term.

I'm sure there will be some installs to the PS4 hard drive, but it sounds like there may be a reserved place in memory for these cached games as well. They may even pull from the installed data, so the cache is more like a virtual memory.

However, it seems that Cerny is implying something different. But maybe he's just talking about two different things that co-exist.
KrisButtar  +   256d ago
IGN and Kotaku both say reviews are coming the 13th. Seems like thats when the NDA is finished
osamede1  +   256d ago
well since replacing the HDD does not void warrenty http://www.newegg.com/Produ...

GREATNESS AWAITS!!!
#9 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Aceman18  +   256d ago
dammmmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnnn that's too much lol. imma wait a couple of years for prices to drop lol.
qu1ckset  +   256d ago
Such a waste of money, cost more then a xboxone and ps4 doesn't support trim launch. I picked up a 5400rpm 1.5TB HDD for my ps4
PSVita  +   256d ago
Why in the world you buy that ridiculously expensive one?
#9.3 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
osamede1  +   256d ago
why not? =|
Godmars290  +   256d ago
Might what to do some research. Heard somewhere that there might be an issue with SSD and the console especially.
PSVita  +   256d ago
http://www.amazon.com/gp/fe...

All of these would work
Neonridr  +   255d ago
$1000?

No thanks.
TristanPR77  +   256d ago
Just as I do now on my PS3! I check the game data folder once in 2 months, if there are game data of games I no longer play I deleted it.

I'm glad Sony left it that way, the user have the right to manage the data the way they want.

About the console reading from the HDD. That nice, that give more speed and less loading times.
Sarick  +   256d ago
Three is some, two is one, one is none. We're talking options here. The customers should have a choice between manual, auto and ask.

Just manual can be advanced for a portion of the non-geeky gamers out there. For instance a family member who owns her own PS3 can't, backup anything, run a system update manually, or remove old trial games. I only listed a few. Without constant help from me she'd need to contact Sony tech support.

Not everyone is capable of managing their HDD space. I see it as a disservice to not have the auto deletion as a user configurable option. At least ask the users
"System notice: you haven't played this game in over 3 months. Would you like to remove it to recover space for new games? You can always re-install it from disk or re-download it. (This is dependent on the original install.) Keep in mind if you delete downloaded game data it will need downloaded again."

If you agree to delete it'll ask if you want to delete the PATCH data. It'd only ask to delete saves if after a year of no access. It could also offer encrypted external backup solutions for clingy types.

Bottom line. manual, auto and always ask deletion shouldn't be hard coded as the single management method for everyone. Having multiple options would better suit the broad base of customers who each have their own personal preferences.

By not offering multiple options to the end user they may inadvertently disrupt the users ability to efficiently manage their systems in some cases.

Bottom line: Some people just want to play games. Not micro manage their systems. It's not like everyone has the same technical understanding to manage them effectivly.
#10.1 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
isarai  +   256d ago
fine with me, it's not like i have to sit there while it installs, and from what i understand it's only going to cache what's ahead of you, so if you delete it then start off in the middle of the game it will not cache the first half of the game. anywho, 10secs to start up and no install screen all done in the background so it really doesn't effect anyone at all really, just delete the cache afterwards if you want to free up the space
azshorty2003  +   256d ago
I like the part about the auto delete idea for games you haven't played in a long time. I think they should make that a check box option. Instead of having to manually go delete stuff.

Just ordered a 1TB 7200rpm drive last night from Newegg. With coupon code it was only $70! So I'm good for a bit.

Was going to post a link, but it looks like they're sold out and the price is back at $180.
RedSoakedSponge  +   256d ago
well i was planning on being purely digital with this new generation so its not an issue for me :)
phantomexe  +   256d ago
Looks like there is a 2tb harddrive that fits the ps4 from samsung. Worlds smallest 2.5 inch harddrive. Bet this cost 200 bucks.
DxTrixterz  +   256d ago
As long as I do not have to wait 30 minutes to install games and like said with Knack just 10 seconds it's cool. After all when you finish playing one game delete it and play another. I like it that the installation happens when you play instead waiting for the game to fully install.
#15 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Codygliss121   256d ago | Spam
jhoward585  +   256d ago
Installing games on the Ps4 hard drive and deleting it over and over again might put wear and tear on the Ps4's blu ray laser.

getting a bigger Hard drive will solve this issue...
#17 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
TheDarpaChief  +   256d ago
"Cerny said that there had been some internal discussions at Sony about having the PS4 auto-delete installed data from games that players hadn't used in a while. They decided against it, figuring that gamers would never want to feel "blindsided" and would prefer to make their data management decisions manually."

And that right there is why im so biased towards sony. Wont even delete unused crap without the USERS permission
troncoparati  +   256d ago
I bought a 1.5 Tb hdd but I'm wondering if the upgrade needs some kind of arrangement like the PS3 did...someone knows?
My_Name_BTW_Is_Dante   256d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(1)
kingPoS  +   256d ago
So let met get this straight. Some people are worried about running out of hdd space even when Sony offers an easy way to upgrade the hdd.
Underworld  +   256d ago
So the installs are permanent? Why were people saying they were only temporary? Man, I'm gonna run out of room really fast. Both consoles should have had a bigger HDD with games being as big as they are. I don't even think 1TB will last.
KERV0RKIAN  +   256d ago
Anybody can tell me how much GB HDD the ps4 can hold?thanks
Socio22  +   256d ago
Both next gen consoles are geared to come with 500 GB HDD
Rageanitus  +   256d ago
I am all for Installing games on your HD like on a PC... but its funny how some PS Fanboys think 500 GB is alot of memory or is enough. Just for the sake of defending the system!

On my computer I have 15 games on my Origin acount and that takes a total of 200 GB..... That is NOT including my main gaming service Steam (which is MUCH larger)

Do you really want to install and reinstall the games. The reinstall aint so bad, its the patches that take a while.

I much prefer the full installs, but this gen should have come with min 1tb of space if they wanted full installs combined with DD.
#24 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
CaddyLss  +   256d ago
And this goes back to why i wont being buying a PS4 right Now.. its like a cold flash back to the PS3 PHAT 20GB days.. lol i still feel the cold shivers from those fools who bought it, only to see a year or 2 down the road that 20 gb is not enough.. lol
Hicken  +   256d ago
Too bad you could never upgrade that 20GB, huh?

And here's Sony, making the same mistake with the 500GB HDD in the PS4.

Oh, wait..
kornbeaner  +   256d ago
These machines are now specialized PCs and just like PCs they WILL install all their games as has been the norm for years now on PC. At least they are using streaming tech where you don't have to sit through the entire install first, that should reduce wear on the BR drive which in turn should keep heat down and increase the life of the unit.

But 500GB is not a lot of space, I thought 320GB was a lot but when PS+ started having free games that space dried up quick.

There's good and bad here but it either installs or multi-disc. I prefer installs with streaming tech over multi-disc any day.
#26 (Edited 256d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Maxor  +   256d ago
It's not just disc installs we have to be worry about. There's PS+ games too, so if a typical PS+ game weight in at around 20gig or so then I'll be looking to upgrade from the tinny and slow ass 4500 RPM stock drive in roughly 6 months to a year.

I hope Sony will support external USB 3.0 drives or eSata by then, because high speed laptop drives with 2 TB capacity are not only expensive, but they will likely cause additional heat inside the unit. External drives are the way to go.
The_KELRaTH  +   256d ago
I guess the PS4's 500GB is like the PS3's old 60GB which was fine without psn games, photos, music, TV etc etc.

Shame you can't use the USB 3.0 ports for external Hard drives.
AndrewLB  +   256d ago
You can on xbone. :)
The_KELRaTH  +   255d ago
Really? well that's a plus for MS then!

I think I'm about to cancel my PS4 pre-order after reading the new forced T & C where it states I must not resale my disc or digital games unless expressly authorised by us (Sony) and by the publishers.

Sony say one thing then sneak in exactly the opposite.
worldwidegaming  +   255d ago
Sounds like hidden DRM to me (in relation to having a disc but needing to install) but you know we can just wait until we smell the roses or a mean turd...either way we are all gonna eat up!

btw requirement! a neat word that means must! think about it!
Dubaman  +   255d ago
Aren't mandatory game installations sort of defeating the point of a console? You know; convenience?
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