NowGamer: 'Even people who are upscaling are still using 100 per cent of the box' says Forza 5's creative director.
Wow. That's pretty damning if true. I mean, I know devs say this exact phrase all the time (and it's not likely they've maxed out the X1 so soon) but it speaks volumes if the devs are using as much as they can get at this stage and can't manage 1080p.
not really it's just saying that certain devs are gonna take time/skill to get the ESRAM working as best they can...it's evident that the X1 can do 1080p (think 4 games so far are confirmed at that) so why would those games be able to achieve it but the X1 is incapable of it in general?
People will just pickup on any scraps they are given to put down the xbox one. Games will look better on the WiiU, Xbox One and PS4 in 12 months time as developers will have better looking games on all 3 consoles through out the generation.
@mcstorm Except, of course, that the WiiU is on par with last generation's hardware, so it's doubtful they'll be improving on the visuals too much.
yes but that argument is null as it is true for both. as the xboxone is improved the ps4 will also be improved it doesn't work just one way if the gap is there already it means it will always be there if not get bigger in a few years time
Well I'm sure both consoles can also do gaming at 4K resolution, so long as you don't want to play anything much more demanding than pac man ;) Not all games have the same resource requirements, so just because some can run at 1080p doesn't mean that all can run at 1080p. As for this 100% crap, it's easy to use 100% of resources with crappy coding. All devs will be working on optimizing their engines throughout this generation.
Not really, Naughty Dog said after Uncharted 2 that they still weren't tapping the PS3, the only developer allowed to say such a thing. Uncharted 3 came out and turns out, yeah they were right.
It's interesting to note that the creative director of Forza thinks F1 cars achieve 220 mph around the track. F1 cars aren't geared for 220 on race day, and track design prohibits achievement of those speeds. So you're telling me the guy making the game knows nothing about motorsports? Oh, I forgot, it's a Microsoft developer. They never let pesky facts get in the way of their utter bullshot.
If devs didn't take a lot of time to learn the Cell this gen, what makes you think they're going to take the time to learn ESRAM optimization next gen? First party games sure, but multi-plats will go the easy route more often than not. For reference, see aforementioned this gen and Cell processing. The ESRAM set up is similar to this gens set up, however, from my understanding, MS is utilizing it to make up for a weaker GPU, and allowing things that aren't really meant for a cache memory setup...such as tiled resources. This isn't unlike the Cell being able to be used to enhance the GPU of the PS3. Very few devs took advantage of it. Only in first party, and a few 3rd party exclusives, did it really show off it's potential.
Developers on PC have been using ESRAM on the GPU for years already. The PC uses DDR3 RAM and then GDDR is baked onto the GPU. Developers know how to use ESRAM. On the contrary the PS3s CELL architecture was completely different as you could use the SPUs to carry data around but they had to use tons of tricks to do that efficiently. Another thing that hasn't been done before is having an extra BUS inbetween the GPU and CPU so they can pass 20GB/second bypassing the reading and writing. You can google Killzone Shadowfall demo postmortem and there is a slideshow but on one of the slides it gives how much data is going where and only about 128MB/second is being used. Whether that wil increase or if it'll make a difference I don't know.
Andrew- When they said they "weren't fully tapping" the ps4, they were referring to optimization. unoptimized code is the result of not cleaning up and streamlining processes, pi$$-poor code is the result of the same thing, along with not using all the resources available. I have a feeling the launch titles for both consoles are not only poorly optimized, but many don't even use all available power. But what do you expect from many development firms who have many programmers that have limited experience creating games for x86 architecture. Both consoles will improve over time but the fact that Xbone's gpu can only do 1.3tflops and PS4 1.84 tflops respectively... which just isn't that much computational power these days. PC's had that kind of single gpu power back in 2010, and 2009 for the xbox. lol.
@medman You're reaching. Under certain conditions, they most certainly can achieve those speeds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
Every dev says that for every game they develop only to find out that they never did when they develop the sequel. Even the 360 and ps3 haven't been max out.
For the 360, I don't know, but for the PS3, TLOU may have max out the capabilities of the console.
MS made a system that is hard to program for. So the learning curve is steep. The roles are reversed for next gen.
How true is that comment I wonder?
How is it any harder to develop for than the 360? It's the same basic architecture, just faster and with a different CPU/GPU
Not really. The system follows the exact same as this generation's hardware. Hint: Xbox 360 uses ESRAM as well...
Except in this generation the console that is hard to program for is the less powerful one.
X86 is PC architecture and developers that develope on PC have been using RAM on the GPU for years already. If you go out to buy a PC it comes with DDR3 RAM and the Titan(Nvidia GPU) for example has 6GB of GDDR5 baked onto it. Developers know how to use it. Unlike the PS3 which used the CELL architecture was completely different and you can see how first party devs really took advantage of it. I'm not saying there won't be a slight improvement but I wouldn't expect a huge one like the PS3 had.
1) Upscaling uses 100% of the box 2)Down the line, we'll learn to 'trick' the box I ruined my monitor by spitting out my drink when I read those lines. Awww, man! Twice!
"'Everyone Is Using 100 Per Cent Of Xbox One' Says Forza's Creative Director" That's not a good sign... I have a feeling that the X1's architecture is one big mess.
I have a feeling that you simply do not understand how programming works. Every game, even launch titles, even on the almighty PS4, use 100%. The visuals get better down the line simply because the developers get more efficient as they learn the hardware and optimize more and more and develop new tools to take advantage of the console's power.
You know the higher, higher ups should tell all their people to shut the hell up because the more they speak the more they make their company and system look bad. Its impossible to use 100% of the system this early in the systems life, and if by some miracle they did then there's a serious issue when you can't achieve a simple 1080p resolution. For all that's holy MS tell your underlings to shut the hell up.
@Aceman18 I think maybe you need to be the one that doesn't speak when you dont know what you are talking about. Just about all games use up all of the resources of a console, it is just with better optimizing and new techniques that games look and play better. Devs do need to not say the 100% statements (even though they have been for the past 10 years) because most people dont understand what they mean, like you
Even the higher ups have made stupid comments. Adam Orths #dealwithit or hows about the if you don't hage an internet connection, we fortunately have a product for you. It's called the Xbox 360.
What dmesdor said is true. It seems that 99% of you guys misunderstand what the 100% statement means.
With CURRENT tools and knowledge of the system devs are maxing out the system. Later in life they will get tool upgrades and tips, tricks and optimizations to improve the games. We hard this same thing with the first wave of games for the PS3... Remember they didn't even know how to the use the SPUs but the system was at 100% *rolls eyes*. With that said - I know there will be improvements but how much is another story.
Yeah that is what I'm thinking. Devs that do make games on PC already use RAM that is baked onto the GPU. They know how to get most out of the system. I think there will be improvements but not like the PS3. Like no one knew how to use the SPUs efficiently which is why there was a steep learning curve. But now that both architectures are x86 they can get way more out of the consoles then they could with the PS3 at launch. Only time will tell though.
It's a common-sense statement. No dev in their right mind deliberately opts against using the resource available to them. Games get better over time because devs get better at using the resources the consoles already have, not because they feel like using more of the power as time goes on.
yeah they are provided 100% power to them but it is on them that how to youse that power ,its simple with time they will learn esram is an new thing to work on it is not simple and linear to work with gddr5 ram because almost all devs know how to work with that ,but this ram is new and is very diiferent from edram from xb360 wait for some time for only some months as they learn more they will be able to deliver waht we are getting on ps4 and yeah i am little disapointed with ms becuase even at the time of e3 devs were not provided with dev kit of xb1 ,its ms fault but now every dev is having it in monts they will learn and will deliver best and stiil xb1 dev kit is not complete as it willl get better games will also get better .devs and ms is working hard.dont be fanboys keep calm.
"That's pretty damning if true." Agreed, but I doubt it's true.
Thats very bad. Before we could say maybe they just aren't good at using its new arcirechture yet. That excuse is gone.
Um, wrong. Infinity Ward said it was a challenge to learn the new architecture and that their games down the line will improve significantly. I'd trust their word over your opinion anyday.
"But the truth is that I get asked are we using 100 per cent of the box? Of course we are. Everyone is. Even people who are upscaling are still using 100 per cent of the box. What happens over the course of years is that we get better at tricking the box into doing what we want. It’s optimisation. "We had more time so we’re very well optimised and we will continue to optimise this game. If you think about Forza 2, it was a well optimised game, but Forza 4 looked a lot better than Forza 2. That just comes with time."
What the hell are you people reading? He talks about having more time to fine tune their engine for forza5. He states he cannot speak for other devs but they didn't have the time his team has had with the XBO. Read it more carefully fuzz balls.
he said nothing about maxing it out he's talking about every dev having the same resources available. I hope sony is not holding back there machine as that would be damning. He is speaking about optimization and I believe you are taking a quote out of context.
Same goes in reverse.... I find it all BS in the end of the day. Just look at all last generation..... ppl kept saying we are only USING X% from the consoles power YET they struggle to hit beyond native 720p. How little does it take to forget all these comments.
Nah, you and most of the 219 idiots that agreed with you are just clueless. Re-read what he said. It will improve a lot with time. If you think the Xbox1 is maxed out, the PS4 will be maxed out the day it releases as well, being easier to develop for. The truth is, they both have a lot of room and games we see in 5 years from now will make todays games look like garbage. CHILL.
So we can't even get 1080P with 60FPS yet developers are using 100%? If this is the case than how is is next gen than? Developers always say we maxed out this console but fact is with time developers will figure out of to get the most out of ps4 and Xbox one, launch titles will not stand the test of time in few years when games truly look and play next gen
Basically he says that their studio is using the XBOX One at 100% efficiency. Basically it took them 3 years to fully understand the hardware since they said its been development since Forza 4. Forza released in 2011 so it had to be in development since 2010. Means next year or early 2015 is when the 1080p 60FPS games on X1 should be the norm.
Not sure if the title is more of a compliment or an insult, but TBH it's kind of a misleading title (unfortunately heh heh ;x).
Yeah he obviously didnt mean it negative at all, but it doesnt sound all that positive.
Considering who they work they could be more careful for a while. :P
Completely agree, this is bad press for Microsoft. You can tell the Turn10 developer didn't mean it in a negative way but if true, which I expect it isn't, than this could be trouble. Essentially what Turn10 has said is, prior to X-Box One even launching the full 'raw' power of the system has been utilized; you will see improvements through our optimizations but what you're seeing now is pretty much what you'll be getting. Isn't this what CBOAT said? Doesn't this just confirm his leak? Still, while said with the best of intentions I find it hard to believe that Turn10, or any developer for that matter, has fully tapped into the 'raw' power of either console.
Poor choice of words
Definitely lol. Maybe the 100% can be even more balanced in the future or something...hopefully..
100%? so we're only going to be getting 720p/30fps for most games? Unlikely that developers have fully utilised the console's power at launch, but fact that launch games have been struggling with 1080p is concerning.
I expect 720p 60 fps is more likely with some games stretching to 900p or 1080p with 30 fps with the rare 1080p at 60fps title. So far Ryse is 900p, Froza is [email protected]
Um...launch games ARE SUPPOSED to struggle. And later on games look better and better. That's how it frikkin works EVERY SINGLE GEN.
"We had more time so we’re very well optimised and we will continue to optimise this game. If you think about Forza 2, it was a well optimised game, but Forza 4 looked a lot better than Forza 2. That just comes with time."
****************************** ************************** ***************************** *************************** ***************************** *************************** "What happens over the course of years is that we get better at tricking the box into doing what we want. It’s optimisation." "We had more time so we’re very well optimised and we will continue to optimise this game. If you think about Forza 2, it was a well optimised game, but Forza 4 looked a lot better than Forza 2. That just comes with time." ***************************** *************************** of course we'll just leave this part out all together right? Gotta love the internet... Click whores.
Just because an person uses all of a resource doesn't mean that they used that resource wisely. Yes I believe it will be interesting to see how the future goes.
Shut up Shut up! SHUT UP! God, everyone working on Xbox needs to be slapped with a gag order.
Ha, funny you dropped that in here. I was just reading the comments and thinking to myself, Microsoft needs to just shut up, and there you are with my exact sentiments.
Agreed. Especially when the people saying things like 100% are making a game that's 50% of Forza 4.....
Why should he when he's just stating the obvious?
Who cares. Forza 5 looks amazing and is a blast to play. I played it this weekend at the mall and loved every minute of it. Can't wait for it!!!
Thats a BOLD statement.
A similar article was here over a month ago. He simply stated that everyone always uses the max of a console. People are just using code that is far from being optimized, which can mean that games can look 5x better with more time and knowledge of the systems. Counts for PS4, Xbox One, 360, ps3 etc etc.
Smh, people don't understand how development works... Every AAA game is going to use 100%. As the generation goes on, developers get better at using that 100%. Killzone SF, is using 100%... That doesn't mean we've see all of what the PS4 is capable of... I mean really do you think a good developer is going to stop adding features and effects to a game if their only using 80% of the hardware. They want each game to look and play as good as possible, every time.