Albert Penello accuses Gamers of not giving him nor Microsoft the chance to have a rational conversation.
William Usher of Cinemablend's Gaming Blend offers a counter-opinion.
This is the Best response to penello and the rest of ppl at MS. http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
I was gonna post this one in the comments but I was working on editing out the expletives. My thanks for beating me to the bunch *tips hat*
@xwow that is the greatest speech in the history of gaming.... my god does anyone have a link to the original post of that comment?
I'm tellin' ya; with all of this continued talk, it's obvious that they want to bring it back.
cheers @x1 the post was soo powerful I read up on the guy 'foxix' who wrote the post... he was a devout 2X generation xbox Supporter!!! makes you feel ashamed and embarrassed for guys like frigid/jokesonyou and the rest etc they need to read this from a hardened xbox Supporter and claim back some sort of common sense and intelligence
Well said... Not sure why Penello brought the DRM fiasco back and try to extinguish those remaining flames. Don't like how Microsoft always feels like they're right for the consumer all the time. Like they could of persuaded everyone to accept it and not get any backlash from the people with no consistent or any internet connection. It's listening to feedback that will satisfy the consumer and when questions were asked, they left the community even more confused or answers never were received. Truth be told, they weren't prepared for it. Even if one year was given after E3, they wouldn't find the right excuses to convince the majority of gamers to accept it. You can say, "they were too ahead of our time" but saying that...you're also saying that Microsoft has completely lost touch of the people of today. It's what's in the present that you take and move into the future slowly, not act like the people has mostly changed quickly in a few years and change up the whole core and structure of what console gaming is about. Microsoft has lost my respect completely and with all the mistakes they keep doing now, that's not helping. I came to see next gen with an open mind on both sides, but Microsoft's take on it is too much for me with twisted up roads that lead to no clear future...
That is EXACTLY how I feel. It's like foxix is reading our (the rational consumer not rabid fanboys) flipping minds. The more MS talks the less I regret cancelling my pre-order. They know this is a disaster. Instead of simply delaying it 6 months or a year they are insisting on rushing it out along with their games. I sincerely hope it blows up in their face. Not that it will do any good because even then they will blame the consumer. X1 consumers I hope you know this is being discussed because they STILL want DRM implemented.
Looks like MS is going to bring it back through the side door.
Xwow2008 said ~ "This is the Best response to penello and the rest of ppl at MS." Agreed. http://assets0.ordienetwork...
At this point I am almost %100 positive that MS planned on launching next year, and just threw shit together to come out with Sony.
I read the whole thing and I completely agree.
Same here. I agree 100%
WHOA! That dude deserves a "Well Said". You can have an "interesting" bubble for linking to it though. I've been annoyed by that "consumer weren't ready" bs too. Instead of saying: "Sorry. we thought we could get away with that." They basically call us stupid for not seeing things in their "visionary"/ "forward thinking" perspective. Arrogance, pure and simple. To top it off it only implies the the DRM/always online nature WILL return.
'On the surface you seem to be approaching this device as a jack of all trades type of console.' Jack of all Trades yet Master of None!
Holy **** That guy is a G. +Bubs for helpful. I hope Panello read that
He obviously struggles to read anything that contradicts his own perception of what the customer mood is! He is insulated by a bunch of ex used car sales men that twist the statistics and research to meet their own pov.
Throw, don't drop the mic.
some one bring that Neogaf dude to N4G so i can give him "well said" bubble
What an absolute idiot this Penello is. To have the audacity to blame gamers for not giving them a chance is almost as bad as #dealwithit I guess they never had the chance to add in a segment over their TV TV NFL reveal, nor did they have a chance at the E3 conference nor the chance at the press thing they usually do but cancelled or at the tons of interviews they had conducted after the unveil up until the point where they done the 180s. This guy is seriously deluded or once again, running damage control. The fact is, Microsoft shunned or talked around the stuff at every given opportunity.
That...was absolutely beautiful. So accurate, so powerful. Oh, how I love a good rant.
The Butt hurt is strong in this thread.
How about actually stating a rational counter argument as to why Penello wasn't a complete ass for saying what he did instead of unintelligently making that stupid and pathetic remark. Of course there isn't a single legitimate defense that can be made for Penello's statement, so instead of just keeping quite you had to act like a butt hurt MS apologist. Very ironic. Are you just very angry because you know xbone multiplat ports are going to be performing noticeable worse when compared to the PS4 for the entire generation?
I think the reason MS are truly blind to this whole situation is because they expected that everyone wants to go the online-digital-cloud way. They are doing this with their business model, now Office is cloud based and you have to pay for the services. They have their enterprise systems starting to develop around it as well. It seems to be the way other companies are moving as well and MS wants in on it. Problem with it all is that the cloud IS NOT GOOD for users other than backing up and storing data. It is better to own your own software and control it however you want for how long you want. You have companies like Adobe with making their software all cloud base and they got hacked because of it. The business world wont raise their arms and cry about it because a lot of the big companies dont care since they got money and they just think its the next thing. But smart consumers do care especially, consumers that are watching what they spend in a struggling economy. DRM, the way they were doing it is not acceptable. People dont like their things controlled by third parties after they bought it. Treating consumers, gamers like they are their business clients was the WRONG model. They have a bunch of non-gamers running the thinking in the xbox division. MS is not an entertainment company they are a business company trying to hop into the entertainment world and the way they treat consumers is indicative of that. If MS truly thought it was good then they shouldn't have reversed it, but obviously they knew they were in the wrong.
@thehitman If MS truly thought it was good then they shouldn't have reversed it, but obviously they knew they were in the wrong. Gotta disagree with you statement. Actually, the only reason they reversed anything was due to the extreme backlash of the gaming community, gaming press, the fact that the information was "bleeding" into the mainstream (e.g. Jimmy Fallon) and MOST IMPORTANTLY, this was translating into a huge disparity in pre-orders between XB1 and the PS4. MS still has not fully recovered and its executives continue to stick their foots in their mouths. One PR mess after another. End of story.
Not gonna lie, I actually agree with some of those bullet points.
Gaf is always a great read. If this guy were on here I'd have given him bubbs+
Great point here: "You do not operate within a vacuum and this relationship does not work in reverse. You are not entitled to my money." Corporations seem more entitled than anyone these days and they are nothing without their consumers.
This is the thinking, IMO, that got MS in trouble in the first place. Having done so well with the 360, they thought that they could just simply say and do whatever and the money would flow. It restores my faith a little bit that even faithful Xbox gamers could see through the BS and call MS out on it. After supporting MS through 2 generations, the person that wrote that, obviously believed that he was due just a modicum of respect. As in, if you want my money...show me why you deserve it. MS, on the other hand, pretty much said we want your money because WE deserve it!
That response was amazing, honestly so very well thought out See how better it is though when your allowed to swear and other small stuff in a comment when you don't have to crap yourself into thinking your going to be de-bubbled.
"The future is decided by the choices we make, not the mandates ordered upon us by those who would like to dictate what the future becomes." Wow. One of the greatest sentences I've ever heard. Also applies to a lot more than just greedy companies forcing unwanted policies down our throats.
think people should stop thinking sony is the saviour of next gen. why? 1. drm was also there initial idea but removed when ms got raped by the public, why do you think both consoles will have day one patches? 2. ps cam was going to be compulsory but same reason as drm they removed it & now controller has a useless bright light ..only reason its cheaper 3. sony are doing the whole its more than a console too, in fact remember what they said about the ps3? also sony have tv streaming vita tv & 4gb (3.5 supposedly) ram reserved for os like xbone. 4. why is no one pissed that sony is charging for online? its still a p2p system & gaikai streaming shouldn't be the reason to charge people since not everyone uses it. at least ms offer dedicated servers & had a good history of dash & online updates 5. ps4 has easier access to more bandwidth with gddr5 but esram needs to be utilised properly, unfortunately late driver updates & poor dev drivers made multiplats made less use of it so more bandwidth which made cod/bf4 go 720p. its definitely possible for better res as as first party games like ryse is 900p & forza is 1080p 60, drive club is only 1080p 30 remember? & killzones 1080p 30 makes their game with smaller maps & only 24 character limit.. not a good thing for game thats attempting to be epic. just some of the crap i have gathered but remember both consoles are powerful & i look forward to there games & features. i am more excited about xbone because of features like the dash, dedicated servers titanfall, gears,halo early cod dlc & bf4 dlc but its all preference
1 - You have no proof of what you state. also PS4 can play disc games without the update 2 - Camera was removed for costs reasons, to give the PS4 a nice price advantage 3 - PS4 is first and foremost a game console 4 - Explain why BF4, COD ghosts, KZSF use dedicated servers on PS4 then...? 5 - Keep dreaming about X1 perfs, unfortunately the GAP will widen when devs start to master compute on PS4
@Xwow2008 ty for link, that sums it up very nicely indeed, classic,, rack'em, bubbles for you my good man. All I can do is look in awe of the mess MS has created, this may be hard to swallow what I say next, but it almost seems like this whole mess is by design, orchestrated & not by chance, just my opinion.
He was not telling the truth. No secret sauce never materialized. He said wait so the games speak for themselves and now that the games have spoken, he shifting the goal post until "all info is clarified". Truth is, PS4 is superior, but don't expect to hear that from Microsoft's director of product planning, Albert Penello.
Is he really blaming the consumer/community that they haven't had a rational conversation about all that? If Penello and his crew think DRM, always-online and mandatory Kinect are such good features why was it dropped within a few months? There is something seriously wrong in Microsofts PR and overall business approach.
There is no rational talk, propaganda or PR spin that would make me accept DRM because I'm well aware of what it is. When I see people saying "oh their PR fucked up and that is why their plan failed bla bla " or this dude saying that consumers didn't give MS a chance to explain their plans, that too me is just a scapegoat. Yes their PR could have done a better job but it were the policies that were rotten at their core and that is was why consumers said no! The problem were the policies, not the PR.
This vindicates the vitriol and bile directed at M$. He/They are angry at gamers for not swallowing their secret sauce! The customer is always right!
Oh Albert, he really needs to understand what it means to open a constructive dialogue. You don't just thrust something upon people and expect them to swallow. Doing that kind of thing can get you in all kinds of trouble.
OK, this is not new. It's the "let us blame others for our own mistakes" that I made me part away from MS. Let see : A video of a PS4 game appears in the Xbox's youtube. Hell it's ubi's fault. Oh, we got the specs wrong at E3 for Ryse. Crytek didn't gave the good info. So Forza needs an internet connection to achieve 1080p. Whom can we blame? Let's see, how about Moonlightswami... Hell, Microsoft, a bad idea is a bad idea and you got to learn to fess up for your mistakes.
The fact is they tried to slip some very draconian DRM past the consumers and they saw it for what it was and told Microsoft to fuck off with that, thankfully they listened.
Gamers are older and more informed about their hard earn money spending in today's economy. Customer Is always right Albert, always will be. It's time to change your business perspective and build a product for a customer, not for your own convenience. Judging from the past years of Microsoft model, I fully expect all the Xbox 1 DRM features and mandatory online anti customer policy to make its way back, slowly over time. I sincerely hope gamers vote with their wallets if that happens. It's not customer and gamers fault, we have been down the corporate money power hungry company policy before, it won't work forever, Albert.
the days of this guy are number tick tock tick tock...
How arrogant can you be?
It seems to me these guys over at Microsoft are starting to sound even more unprofessional now and are really taking things personally which is bad business. These guys have to remember they are selling us a product and a consumer can be ready for anything if they fork out the cash, if we don't buy it or like it doesn't mean we are not ready for it it means we don't want it period. Seriously guys when you purchase something your not just purchasing a product your investing in a company and what it stands for and so far even though i would like a X1 i am not ever giving Microsoft my money again until they change their management.
Agreed, they could even argue about the consumers wasn't ready for their approach internally.. but i think its wrong to state this to the public. Tough times for MS and they are the only to blame
Like I said before, I DONT like this Penello guy. He just says stupid things that hurt the Xbone's PR more. Hey, if you really think DRM was the future, why didn't you settle for it? Why did you listen to the consumers and not stick with what you had in mind? Instead of listening to the consumers (which CAN be wrong sometimes), why not TELL THE WORLD the benefits of going DRM? Would the Xbone having DRM make it more Steam-like, in which consumers get crazy and insanely awesome deals every weeks? Would the DRM-filled Xbone have a similar feature like GOG, where you can trade and resell your digital games? If Microsoft were ready to take change and innovate, they would have stuck with DRM. The media would probably hate them more now than they already do, but at least they'll have focus, and know what to do. Instead, they caved in, and now everyone associated with Xbone PR are messing up and making a fool out of themselves.
MS's butthurtiness over DRM just shows their desire to bring it back. And their lack of respect for their customers. They think they know what we want better than we know what we want. How does anyone still trust them.
BS and deceit are inherent in everything MS, not just XBox.
did you guys think it was evil ms when they added a internet port to the x1 dfor online play, i didnt, what they saw was a begining of xbox live and multiplayer, and they were also thinking about the future, it wasnt considered evil then but people did scoff at it. now look were its at, both sony and ms are vying for the best online service. couldnt it just be they were doing the same thing with the x1. for christ sake you guys take it to far.
The point is that this guy is insinuating that the whole DRM debacle was the gamers' fault. Pathetic.
kind of, because they all immediately went into this fear mode as if ms just wants to introduce kinect to spy on you and no other reason instead of thinking hey they want to introduce more options that will enhance the gaming experience the same way they forward thought about xbox live. for christ sake they already have most of the world using windows and most of them have cams, they dont need klinect to do the spying, it was hateful uninformed non forward thinking gamers who acted childlessly and forgot they xbox is about gaming. your already being spied on, they dont need to make a game consoles to do so, they have your pc CAM,, PHONE CAM, TABLET CAM TO DO SO AL;READY, GROW UP
Fear mode? They wanted to take ownership of the console and games from us. What you call fear, I call defending our rights as consumers and guess what, our "fear" managed to bendover one of the most powerful and richest companies in the world. Also I find hilarious that you believe that just because other companies spy on us with other devices it is ok for MS to do it with kinect. Since when do 2 wrongs make 1 right?
Yes, that was evil. They pulled the plug on Dreamcast's network and made it into Live.
SEGA was the one offering it to them hun. I know that hurts you a bit but MS wanted to first bring their games exclusively to SEGA's Console. Isoa Okawa basically informed them they where getting out of the industry and offered them and offered them a nice deal on the controller layout and networking technology. Now I am a SEGA Fanboy of old (turned Nintendo fan after all the Fanboy crap of the other two brands), but not even I can deny that SEGA really pulled the plug themselves.
There is a very big difference in adding new features, and adding features that restrict and enslave the consumer. The first rule of running a customer based business is "The customer is always right." If there is a problem with your product or a significant portion of customers complain about your product odds are there is a problem with the damn product. Sony did the same thing with the PS3. They were forward thinking by adding a blu-ray drive in the PS3. It would've been a whole lot different if Sony would've said you can only play blu-rays not DVDs. MS didn't outline how this was going to positively affect the customer. Instead, they said things like #dealwithit or "Keep you 360" those quotes to me sound like they come from a company that DOESN'T respect their fanbase.
"pc CAM,, PHONE CAM, TABLET CAM TO DO SO AL;READY, GROW UP" Go home Oscar, you're drunk.
That's not even remotely the same thing. Very poor comparison. What you described is just adding new technology to the console which has been available on the PC for years, which is a very good thing. So of course nobody "scoffed" at it. But what MS was trying to do was restrict used game sales, game trading, have 24 hour check ins, online-only etc. etc. etc. How blind could you be to not see the difference?
You forgot about the part where the X1 will only function on certain territories, if they have kept their original strategy. So you can't even import it if you wanted to. How can that be the future of gaming, which has always been the best medium to bridge people from across the world, I will never know.
@badkolo Not even close to the same thing. Digital content is not a bad thing but trying to control and restrict that content is. Giving customers a feature that enhances gaming=good, restricting ownership of content=bad. How do you draw the conclusion that adding an internet port is anywhere in the same ball park as taking digital rights from the consumer? Not only that their arrogant and smug attitudes are like that of a spoiled child and its sad.
I'm not a Microsoft fan, but I am a great PR person. How do these guys get paid so much to suck?
When I hear people defend this it gets under my skin. If MS was gonna make the experience anything like steam they would have said so. If it was really there vision they would have stuck with it. They didn't because they wouldn't have sold anywhere near what they project to have now .
"Jack of all trades" i.e. master of none... as a "gear-head, I see it as someone putting all-season tires on a corvette, sports cars shine with street performance tires in the spring/summer and winter tires in the fall/winter. All seasons will work, but wont let the car SHINE! MS put all-seasons in the xbone and it deserves high performance! Seems like, so far, Sony has gone with the tires ferarri puts on the Italia, the Michelin Pilot Super Sports!
Is this really the only site calling out Microsoft's bulls..t? Just followed this guy on twitter..... This article highlights why MS does not deserve a dime from anyone. They have the balls to this day to feel like they weren't given a fair shake and that they are the victims.
albert should ignore these fanboys and just focus on making the xbx one great...at this point i think words are wasted on a certain sect of gamers. everything results in insults and what baffles me is the fact these same guys never planned to get the xbx one in the first place yet they are the most vocal....smh
Well he and MS ignored all the apologists and made 180s left, right and center. I guess that in the end MS ignored you and all the people defending DRM.
Lol christocolus some of the most vocal on this subject were Xbox fans.. When your draconian policies gain you national publicity on major television networks then you know its not just "fanboys" "that never planned to get the xbx in the first place" Why can't you just accept that what Microsoft was trying to accomplish was flawed, unpopular, and very anti consumer?
it may have been..i admit but it was just too early to introduce stuff like that with the level of internet penetration and bandwith in certain areas but in the long run it will prove to be a good idea...maybe not this gen but believe me everyone will move digital finally..but that aside even if the drm pushed a number of xbx fans to purchase a ps4 for cying out loud its been months since its reversal people need to move on and stop whinning..you cant still be making a fuss over something thats been cleared up and long forgotten..people need to grow up..