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Submitted by dazzrazz 316d ago | article

X1 ESRAM & 720p Why It's Causing A Resolution Bottleneck

" The ESRAM of the Xbox One is perhaps the single largest issue developers are facing right now when porting games over to the machine. Leaks and rumors say it’s not only responsible for the lower native resolution of Xbox One Games, but also causing games to be harder to develop on the system. Let’s investigate the cause and clear up any confusion over the X1′s ESRAM." (Tech, Xbox One)

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decrypt  +   316d ago | Well said
Well there is a reason Nvidia and AMD use GDDR5 for graphics. Memory bandwidth limitations can become a huge bottleneck. Luckily even todays mid range GPUs provide in excess of 250GB/s, high end GPUs provide north of 325GB/s. Cant wait till Maxwell when these figures will probably double.

No wonder PC pushes 4k gaming while other platforms are pushing 720p and literally struggling by the time they get close to 1080p.
#1 (Edited 316d ago ) | Agree(112) | Disagree(30) | Report | Reply
shoddy   316d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(20)
worldwidegaming  +   316d ago | Well said
people do not want to hear the truth. They wish to be mislead by catchy made up words and cool gimmicks.
Even when the ship is sinking they still think things are OK right down to the part where they are drowning.
In denial.
amnalehu  +   316d ago
THE CLOUD will fix it....right..
SmokexFFx  +   316d ago
@amnalehu

Yea, what ever happened to that powerful cloud Microsoft kept mentioning. Powerful enough to do significant amounts of processing and take the stress off the Xbox One didn't they say?

Oh but maybe 'developers haven't mastered it yet', just like developers haven't mastered the incredible complexity of ESRAM. /s.
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Prime157  +   316d ago
Ok, shrink it back in scale to 2006 when the 360 came out. Do you think you think no one was saying this?

Look, I agree with you fully: Console gaming is the budget gaming. However, there is still something to learn from it.
vallencer  +   315d ago
Or, and heres a thought, maybe a majority of people just don't care as much as you or anyone else about how "powerful" a console is. That's the truth.

I'm buying both, not on day one mind you but eventually. I'm getting the x1 first and it's because of the games. I love killer instinct and im intrigued by Ryse. Also dead rising 3 sold me. I had planned on buying a ps4 at lunch but the only game i was interested in was infamous and that got pushed back.

Also as far as the rest of their games go more than half of those indie games i can just buy on steam so why spend the extra 400 when i have a pc.

But in all honesty both WILL be great systems regardless of what everyone wants to say on the internet. The amount of hate and doom everyone had for the ps3 ended up being false. Sometimes things just take awhile and microsoft knows that.
mewhy32  +   315d ago
More and more problems for the bone.
Consoldtobots  +   315d ago
for those that are technically challenged the long and short of it is this:

MS REALLY!!!!!!!! screwed up by going with GDDR3 as the article goes on to explain that as the BPP count rises this obsolete technology is up 90% slower than GDDR5 which you see on high end GPUs.
Sony knows what they are doing and MS does not, it's that simple.
mikeslemonade  +   315d ago
Yep Sony has been around the block several times at making systems.

And please stop saying 4K TV or resolution. It's 2160P which is negligible. 1080p is enough for now. 720p isn't good enough.
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thorstein  +   315d ago
You're right. What I found most intriguing from the article is the phrase "...single largest issue developers are facing right now when porting games over to the machine"

PORTING games over to the machine. Is PC the lead? Is PS4 the lead development console? Is this what was referred to last gen as "gimping" a game to make it even for both consoles?

And if it is such a huge problem, then why is MS releasing the console now? Delay and do it right.
thehitman  +   316d ago | Well said
Mid range GPUs dont have that much bandwidth I dont know where your getting those crazy numbers from. Anything higher than 160ish is high end. Everything 250+ is like super high end not even for real gaming purposes but for commercial/business purposes. Those Gpus are like 300-1k dollars.

Anyways this guy talks for a very long time if you dont want to listen to the entire vid like I did. I can sum it up. Basically ESram is not large enough they went with lowest cost over better performance. DDR3 sucks for everything gaming like most PC gamers know already... and if xb1 devs try to close the gap between the systems using the best tools it still wont be enough because of other bottlenecks. Ps4 is stronger than xb1 but we all knew that coming in he just explains why.
nypifisel  +   315d ago
Here's a good chart showing the BPP for the most common rendering technique in modern engines (deferred rendering) without anti-aliasing.

A 1080p framebuffer using forward rendering and no AA at 32 bits per pixel would be ~24mb big, using deferred rendering which is far more likely would put it at the total of 2073600 pixels so at differing BPP(Bytes per pixel) we would get:

16 BPP: 31.64mb
20 BPP: 39.55mb
24 BPP: 47.46mb
28 BPP: 55.37mb
32 BPP: 63.28mb

As a reference BF3 (1080p on PC) is 20BPP and KZ:SF is 24BPP both without AA. I can't imagine Next Gen going any lower than 16BPP.

As you can see, even without any AA a FB using deferred rendering is almost always going to be bigger than 32mb (the maximum size for the eSRAM in Xbox One). It's the reason why the eSRAM is too small to be used as a FB for 1080p and why 720p will be norm on Xbox One if they want to keep up with graphical detail.
deecee33  +   315d ago
Hey nypifisel:

I agree the ESRAM seems to be a huge hurdle at this point. I also think we might see that increasing graphics workloads could stretch the X1's fillrate to the limit earlier than the PS4 given that the gpu is less powerful than the PS4's. That's just a guess, but it seems likely.

Question for you since you seem to know a bit more about this: what types of visible issues could we see if indeed they decide to deferred render at 1080p using 16bpp? It seems like this might be noticeable?
nypifisel  +   315d ago
@deecee33

Well unless rendering techniques changes in the near future (it wont) we will see a big downgrade in visuals on Xbox One version of games to hit 1080p. Let me try put it in easier terms;

Hmm.

you got one 16 cl glass which you first have to fill half way up with resolution (1080p) which gives you 8 cl left to fill with graphical detail (colours essentially). On the PS4 which have no restrictions what so ever in that department you could just take a twice as big of a glass, 32 cl, resolution at 1080p still takes up 8 cl but you have 24 cl left for graphical detail.

16 BPP and 1080p on the Xbox One means there aren't enough space for graphical fidelity.

Some of the most visible effects will be lack of AA solution. But it will also be such essentials as lack of dynamic lighting, reflections or even big textures. We can actually already see some of this in Forza. It's 1080p but it lacks a lot of the things you would've taken for granted by now; dynamic lighting, day night cycle (which is a result of the above), and the aliasing is pretty terrible too - I think we will see a bigger disparity going forward though cause the Xbox One won't be able to keep up in these departments.
deecee33  +   312d ago
Thx nypifisel- I get you. The more details I read the more it seems like the XB1 was designed to be a fast 720p machine, which is fine, but you gotta wonder who thought of non-optional Kinect. Might not matter in ten years, because MS shareholders may nix the xbox if it's not profitable enough.
nypifisel  +   310d ago
Hehe I'm sorry if it was a bit messy, It always makes sense in my head but trying to show this to other is a bit of a struggle. And yes your conclusion is very likely and fair!
Bigpappy  +   316d ago
I don't believe ESRAM has anything to do with it. If it is under performing, it will more likely be the way the recourses are split among the 2 OS and Kinect. X1 is doing a lot more than the PS4 with its resources.

Most developers are very familiar with ESRAM. It requires the same techniques as those used on the 360.
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MCTJim  +   316d ago
Agreed :)
thehitman  +   316d ago
esram has a lot to do with it. It really just isnt good enough point and simple. Developers maybe familiar with it, but that was when they were developing games with a lot lower textures and resolution. When you are trying to reach much higher power the esram falls short and developers have to find new tricks to use it in the best way with the other resources they have. Thats why every game that will launch will be not as good as the ps4 version because the ps4 architecture is not only easy, but very efficient in all aspects to meet todays demands for gaming.

MS having 3 OS on their system communicating with each other is a totally entire different discussion in itself that wont affect gaming but the applications part of the system which they seem to not be having a problem with. If there was apps crashing and game crashing when using the apps side by side then you would have a point.
Cernunnos  +   316d ago
The frame buffer simply isn't large enough to handle 1080p.
Bigpappy  +   316d ago
So how are they doing it with forza (1080p 60fps)? Ryse is 900p. Could they not have reduced the polly count to make the files smaller?

What ever happened to developer being lazy and focusing on the lowest common denominator? How come they are not gimping PS4 games like I was constantly told was the case with PS3? Just goes to show how much of what is said on the internet is only to suit a purpose, or just plain old lies.
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thehitman  +   316d ago
@Big just because the game is in 1080p @ 60fps doesnt really mean much if the quality of the textures themselves dont require much. Your forgetting forza is a racing game. It doesnt take much power to make plastic/metal look real like it does to make a human face and hundreds of animations/effects. Then you could dig deeper about the environments around not being dynamic etc just ultimately not requiring much power. Racing games are a terrible benchmark of what hardware can do.

Regarding Ryse it should be at 1080p not 900p. The fact its not even 1080p @ 30fps in itself is alarming. Also the gimping of ps3 games was not really because of huge power differences but because the 360 was still using dvd9 which means games were built to be a lot smaller. If you look at xb1 and ps4 look how huge the files are for the games. That is how it shouldve been this current gen for all games. Ps3 exclusives took advantage of the extra disc space but when it came to mulitplats majority didnt.
cgoodno  +   316d ago
***Most developers are very familiar with ESRAM. It requires the same techniques as those used on the 360.***

This is actually very true.
MysticStrummer  +   316d ago
I don't know about other devs, but Rockstar admitted outright that things were cut from GTA4 because of 360.
Bigpappy  +   316d ago
@MysticStrummer: if things were removed from the game because of 360, would it not likely be because of DVD rather than, power. Think for a second before spewing what ever fit your argument. Also provide a link, cause I have never heard of this and you guy done let stuff like that pass.
Lord Maim  +   316d ago
No reason they both can't be true.
deecee33  +   316d ago
The ESRAM is one of a couple bottlenecks. As the article explained, the ESRAM has to be intelligently used to be useful at 1080p. There's also the issue of fillrate- you need enough raw tflop performance and a fast enough usable pool of memory to feed the gpu (and feed it fast enough) to push 60 frames at 1080p. Sony's machine seems capable with the stronger gpu- it is looking like the ESRAM may only be a secondary concern when the dust settles and developers re-learn to use it. At the end of the day they may need a faster gpu to keep up with increasing workloads at high res. Sony's best move wasn't just the GDDR5- it was a GPU with the fillrate to make true HD at stable fps a realistic goal for the devs.
Volkama  +   315d ago
The 32mb ESRAM is apaprently too small for a 1080p render.

The 360 had 10mb EDRAM, that was surely too small for a 720p render.

The 360 had 720p games.

Maybe it's a little premature to shout "GAME OVER" at Redmond?
nypifisel  +   315d ago
Maybe none of you understand how displaying pixels on a screen works. See the chart I posted above for FB sizes using deferred rendering. If the Xbox One wants to push 1080p it have to sacrifice in other areas, it's as simple as that. Whether the 360 with 10mb eDRAM could do 720p or not is really irrelevant.
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schubacca  +   315d ago
I will not be thinking about ESRAM when I am playing Forza 5, TitanFall, and Halo 5.

I have absolutely nothing bad to say about the PS4, which is the more powerful system with the best 1st party support.

However, I will still be also enjoying the X1.
Mister_Dawg  +   316d ago
PC pushing 4k?

Have you the cost of the hardware you would need to only just get acceptable frame rates?
To get it to the realm of decent gaming, you have to go with multiple gpu's. Have a look in this months custom pc magazine. Holy crap, there's no way I'm dropping £600+ to get just over 35fps minimum at 4k in crysis 3.

No thanks.
PC isn't ready just yet for mass 4k.
kane_1371  +   316d ago | Well said
Yeah, the top rigs that run 4k on crysis 3 cost actually around 6k.
They run dual Nvidia Titans, that alone is 2k+, then you have the rams, ssd, and CPU and suddenly you are bankrupt.

But hey, you can at least play crysis 3 on 4k full settings and show them console peasants who's the boss!

I hate PC elitist -___-
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Cernunnos  +   316d ago
1440p on the other hand is still twice the resolution that 1080p is. It looks gorgeous, and you can build a PC for less than 1000$ that can max bf4 with 1440p.
lilbroRx  +   316d ago
I ran Crysis at max setting at a little over 2k on Nvidia 550 Ti. It ran smoothly.

Its really not as taxing as people think on PC.
FTLightspeed  +   316d ago
@Cernunnos Presuming the same 16x9 aspect ratio as current HD, 1440p would have a resolution of 2560x1440, an over 50% improvement in resolution over 1080p. not double.
decrypt  +   316d ago
@Mister_Dawg

Titans are not needed.

You could go for 3x GTX 780s or 3x R9 290's and achieve simular results for a much lower cost.

In any case PC graphics power doubles in 12-18months time. Meaning 4k should be much more affordable in 12 months from now.
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cooperdnizzle  +   315d ago
@LilbroRX. You are straight up lying. I have a 680, I7, 16GB of ram, and can not run the game at max settings higher then 1080p. No need to lie.
Bathyj  +   316d ago
Its a very interesting read. MS have played it cheap with RAM for the sake of putting a camera in the box. Then they want us to believe having a really good band aid is better than not having a bleeding gaping wound in the first place.

On top of all that Kinect reserves 10% of the GPU and who knows how much of the RAM. MS has hamstrung itself out of the gate. If this were a racehorse it would be used to hold a chair together next month.
OrangePowerz  +   316d ago
The 360 solution worked fine for the 360 with a maximum of 512MB RAM (not even deducting yet the OS memory).

When you bump up the RAM to 5GB for gaming and change to high res textures and so on from last gen the 32MB ESRAM don`t cut it anymore. With games taking up to 50GB there is a huge amount of data moving around constantly.

4k is nice and all but it takes a lot of performance and it`s not cheap with the TVs and Monitors and will take a couple of years until those are affordable. The performance need will further increase once games actually use 4k assets.
kipsta77  +   316d ago
Maxwell is going to be sweet! Q1/Q2 2014 apparently, very interested in a 880.

Looks like the ESRAM will be the "CELL" of this gen, being a pain is the a** for devs to work with.
insomnium2  +   316d ago
Yeah well like we all know by now CELL actually worked. With the ESRAM being only 32MB I cannot see in what practical way the devs are able to use it. I just don't see it happening. It's like bringing a bus to are race where the opposition has a normal car. Sure you have lots more room for people but you are just too slow to be competitive. In this case it's the exact opposite. Lots of speed but no room whatsoever. You get the idea I'm sure.
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MichaelLito79  +   316d ago
By this time next year all games on Xbox one will be 1080p native. We already have a few examples for Xbox one so its a matter of time.
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Lord Maim  +   316d ago | Funny
By this time next year, all games on Xbox will come with a party hat and a flamingo casserole. We already have a few examples of statements that have no basis, so it's just a matter of time before someone makes another one.
lilbroRx  +   316d ago
You do know that there are many high end GPU's from Nvida and AMD that use DDR3 and work just as well right?

People have been gaming in 1080p and beyond for over a decade on RAM much smaller and slower than what the next gen consoles have in them.

Though why am I saying this here. No one cares about facts and reality on this site. All they care about is spec boasting, and ever since Sony announced that they are using all GDDR5, people have been treating it like god ram when its not.

Last gen it was the all about "THE CELL". Now its all about GDDR5.

The Wii U has enough 1080p games to make it clear that 32 MB of edram is more than sufficient for 1080p gaming.

Xone games not being 1080p likely has more to with the development decisions vs overall GPU processing power than RAM performance.
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dredgewalker  +   316d ago
There aren't any high end gpu's today that use ddr3, only the low end ones use it for cost reduction.
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SkullBlade169  +   315d ago
Never mind, replied to wrong person.
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OlgerO   316d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(6)
DarkLordMalik  +   316d ago
The article lists PS4 GPU TFLOPS as 18.4TFLOPS. It is a simple mistake here. It is actually 1.84 TFLOPS.
Deividas  +   316d ago
Not sure why you have disagrees for pointing out a mistake.
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Sci0n  +   315d ago
some can't handle the truth
reynod   316d ago | Off topic | show | Replies(5)
azshorty2003  +   316d ago
Could you imagine if it was 18.4? o.O
reynod  +   316d ago
Not a problem get 3x R9 290's in Crossfire and you are close to 17 TFLOPS of power :P Probably hit 18 TFLOPS with a bit of overclocking probably eclipse it lol.

Will cost about 1500usd though Not bad to have power that may be available on the next consoles when they launch in 7-8 years time.
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Cernunnos  +   316d ago
a pair of R9 290's are not even close to 17 TFLOPS.. It would be closer to 6 TFLOPS.
Volkama  +   315d ago
A single R9 290X is something like 5.1 tflops stock. The regular R9 290 is expected this week, priced at approximately 1 PS4 and pushing 4.6 tflops.

They're still quite expensive, but the expensive PC of today is the mid-range PC of next year.

The moral of the story is console gamers should just talk about games :)
saikorican  +   315d ago
Just because someone can't afford $1500+ of tech doesn't mean they shouldn't be concerned about visuals. A little tired of PC users coming in and commenting about on every console article abut how PC is so far ahead if you have the cash for it. There's other forums for that you know.
mark134uk   316d ago | Trolling | show
creatchee  +   316d ago | Well said
This is a well-written, unbiased article that actually explains a lot of things instead of simply saying A is better than B. Even though X1 will have developers working harder, I'm sure that they will be able to get a lot out of the console once they've learned the tricks of it.
iceman06  +   316d ago
I've heard the same thing stated from our resident "tech experts" on N4G. But, it's great to see this coming from an unbiased source.
Edsword  +   316d ago
I agree, the XB1 will likely have some very pretty and excellent games. However, I don't think its just a matter of working harder, XB1 games will likely always lag behind the PS4 in terms of graphics. MS best path forward is to focus on gameplay mechanics and new IPs to convince people graphics is not everything. However, the PS4 is pretty formidable and will likely have new IPs and great games as well. MS can still win this generation and certainly they have some capable development studios to do so. I just hope they don't try to buy this gen by purchasing a bunch of 3rd party exclusives, that is not fair to gamers of either console or PC.
Kushan  +   316d ago
There's nothing unbiased about this source, he's actually completely mistaken about the ESRAM as well. He's trying to state that the ESRAM is the bottleneck of the system when the reality is that it's the DDR3 that's holding everything back. The ESRAM actually helps reduce that bottleneck.

It's still not an excuse for cheaping out on the system Memory.
dansdooz  +   316d ago
Designed for 10 years? This shit will be redundant in 6 months, sony pushing 4k tvs hard now, if they cant find a workaround for the resolution this thing is dead in the water, according to the article it seems we can expect most titles from xb1 to be sub 1080 :-(
reynod  +   316d ago
Well even the PS4 wont be pushing 4k games. Will need a PC to run games in 4k on Sony 4k tvs.

Hence when thinking of 4k TVs both the consoles will be redundant in that context.
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dansdooz  +   316d ago
My point being 4k is becoming more affordable and will keep coming down in price, for people to say 720 is acceptable for a state of the art gaming console in 2014 is laughable, i dont expect the consoles to be able to handle 4k but 1080 at least...
I remember when ryse had the resolution debate i had taken for granted that everything would run native in 1080p this gen and was quite shocked.
Just wish we could get some answers from microsoft some people feeling quite cheated out of their money at the mo but you hang on hoping for some good news that may never come...
Gridloc  +   316d ago
4k tv's upscale 1080p signals,but I'm not sure what an Xbox game running 720p native upscaled to 1080p then upscaled again by the 4k tv would look like. It will be interesting to see the results in less than 3 weeks.
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Phoenix76  +   315d ago
This heap of s*** was redundant 'before' it even hit the market!!!
isa_scout  +   316d ago
Great read...Only one problem, I now feel much dumber after having read it. Now I must come to terms with the fact that when it comes to technology I am on the same basic knowledge level as a small child.
Don't get me wrong I loved reading(ok attempting to read)it, but if you actually understood it props to you because you're much smarter than I.
lsujester  +   316d ago
And props to you for admitting that. Most people would have made some half-assed comment to justify their console of choice.
iceman06  +   316d ago
I agree totally!!! I enjoyed the read and the knowledge therein. However, as you stated, I feel as inadequate as I suspected that I was...technologically speaking.
Juiceid  +   316d ago
Yeah, I was like whaaaaaa, and like huuuuh. Whoa, one word I understand! Then kept reading and back to whaaaaa again...now I have a headache. I think the xbox will be nifty all around, but it's Sony's game this time around.
Mikelarry  +   316d ago
lol at some of the comments you guys are too much.

OT: very informative and interesting video thanks to the person who submitted this. its all good when people say "oh the ps4 is 50 percent more powerful than the xbox one" i wanted to know why and this video answered most of my questions.
Clarence  +   316d ago
M$ " We've got custome chips here, and that my friend is what is going to set us apart from the PS4." Custome chips my a$$.

On another note. Thank you Mark Cerny.
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lsujester  +   316d ago | Funny
No, no, no, remember they have double super secret GPUs with the main one. In fact, they are so secret, no developer has found them yet.
sigfredod  +   316d ago
lol
GentlemenRUs  +   316d ago
Its even more secret that its not even found in the console!
Angels3785  +   316d ago
Even microsoft themselves have yet to discover them....they just appear within a small wormhole in every xbox one...
tagan8tr  +   316d ago
So secret even Microsoft does'nt know whats in it lol
NeoTribe  +   316d ago
I think they accidently installed there super sauce in the ps4s.
Persistantthug  +   315d ago
Actually.......

It's 3 GPUs.
Sci0n  +   315d ago
its hidden in the clouds
vigilante_man  +   316d ago
Once President Obama leaves office may I suggest you Americans appoint Mark Cerny!!

In England we already call him Sir Mark Cerny...
MitchellK  +   316d ago
Mmm custom chips. What flavor are they. Can I eat them while playing my ps4?
SpideySpeakz  +   316d ago
Redgamingtech is the most reliable information source out there, but very underrated. When I read they're information, it feels like I'm reading from actual developers, not amateurs/sensationalist like RTUSA.
Edsword  +   316d ago
Even if developers can get more out of XB1 memory using the ESRAM, the PS4 GPU has still got quite a bit more going for it. I realize this could mean the gap is bridged a little for multi-plats, but the disparity between exclusives is likely to continue to grow as the ease of development will simply mean faster optimization of PS4 hardware. While XB1 developers are wrestling to get to 1080p, PS4 developers will be looking how they can increase the world size or push better effects. All you have to do to see that is look at Killzone Shadow Fall and see how Guerilla is spending its time with lighting and volumetric 'moving' fog. While I believe both systems will have great games, I seriously doubt the XB1 will ever catch up to the PS4 this generation.
MasterCornholio  +   316d ago
Overtime games will get better on the Xbox One as the developers get used to the esram but the gap will widen when they start to use compute. Very interesting video to tell you the truth.

Like he said when Microsoft starts to accelerate Sony will just use some good old fashion NOS and beat them.

Nexus 7 2013
stuna1  +   316d ago
So what's being discussed in this video is, that the Xbox1 will always be at an disadvantage when it comes to the PS4! The Esram is possibly the biggest thorn in the side of the system, and developers and when developers finally do get a handle on the functions of the Esram, potentially lessening the gap, the gap will widen once again once the GPU compute comes into play considering the PS4 has twice the compute unit available with 72 standard as opposed to 36 in the Xbox1. Shader unit, Rops will play a role also. It's only logical to believe that developer will not be able to mask the differences between the consoles as time passes.

From what is apparent from the onset is...... Sony has built the superior console, it will likely hold that superiority the entire generation! Nothing the naysayers, Non believers, even Microsoft are going to change that. Why people are not able to see that Hardware is not Microsofts strong points is never a argument that should be up for discussion.
iceman06  +   316d ago
Honestly, I haven't seen a tech expert yet that even hinted at Xbox 1 being better. They all say that it "has it's benefits" or " might be able to compete with PS4 once developers come to grips with it..." In the end, the specs spoke loud and clear from the get go. That's not to say that MS won't pump out some great looking, great playing games. On the contrary, it's really saying that PS4 is just more powerful and easier to develop for...so there won't be any excuses for lackluster titles (in comparison to Xbox 1).
stuna1  +   316d ago
I agreed with you, but my statement is more so angled at the one's who seem to think that Microsoft can somehow squeeze blood from a rock! Sony has a system that focused on gaming first and foremost, then media secondary. Yet we have those on this very site arguing semantics, trying to fit a block through a hole, that's entirely too small. My favorite argument is, how theoretically on paper it's shown that the PS4 is the more powerful of the two, but in real life, they are somehow on par with one another! I'm of the mind that in real life the Xbox1 would still be weaker, because theoretically speaking it would also take the exact same hit that the PS4 has taken converting everything to real world performance! Theoretically speaking that is of course.

Anyway just because Microsoft has chosen to mislead its fanbase, is no reason for some of the more adamant followers to not question the true motives behind Microsoft obvious deceit! The truth or mumblings of the truth are out there, and when thing after thing keeps popping up, it's time to start asking questions.
Godhimself_In_3d  +   316d ago
I Agree 100%. I believe what happened was 1) MS was expecting a 4gb ram ps4 and that didn't happened. 2) Thinking developers were gonna go for parity. 3)Underestimated Sony because they said the Ps3 was more powerful and the 360 was running better on multiplats. I'll be playing killzone in 1080p and ryse in 900p do you think care no. I loved cod and it was running under 720p not lost in fun for me. I think its just the n4g double standard xbox fanboys diss ps fans if a game runs and looks better on there system even if it was just by a frame or better aa lol and blind ps fan would defend it to the death lmao. Now that has gone on the whole generation.simply put xbox fans its your turn plain in simple the esram is the new cell processor.
Badassbab  +   316d ago
Why people are not able to see that Hardware is not Microsofts strong points is never a argument that should be up for discussion.

Xbox was very reliable and more powerful than PS2

Xbox 360 had reliability issues in the first few years but as far as the tech it was a great piece of kit no doubt about it. It won most head to heads and was much easier to develop for than the PS3 at least for a good few years.

Xbox One for all intents and purposes looks from a strictly gaming hardware point of view very much inferior than the PS4 and I doubt the Xbone will be able to turn the tide with regards to best looking games like the PS3 did against the 360. But we will see.
#12.2 (Edited 316d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(8) | Report | Reply
Godhimself_In_3d  +   316d ago
True but i think its the xbox fanboys that have a problem with this. Ps3 was powerful but simple bottle necks held it back. Its easy to mask it in a exclusive game because you build it to its strengths and the same will happen with xbox. The Ps3 specs are better on paper but a simple oversight came back to haunt them the entire generation fact. I will have fun with systems but face it yes the tools will get better for xbox but to most blind fanboys they think ps4 will stay the same. Fact is ps4 has another gear with gpgpu and it will widen the gap.If your a real xbox fan support your system of choice i here you guys all day xbox live is better,kinect is better better exclusives graphics don't matter so why cry about it. I preferred Ps3 to xbox but i was not blind that games ran better on 360.Graphics matter your hurt behind 720p vs 1080p Im hurt i spent 3781.00 for 4k and Im getting none of that. i bought a new tv for both next gen consoles to play together and left my pc with specs for 2008 Im sick
#12.3 (Edited 316d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
iceman06  +   316d ago
Agreed. That's why I said that I hadn't seen a single tech expert say that. Not that I don't value the "opinions" stated on this site. But, when even keeled and unbiased tech people say that there is an inherent edge, I tend to believe them. The theoretical arguments mean nothing but the final thing to hang hopes on. I really don't want to pile on, but I really don't get the blind loyalty to anything or anybody. I am of the "real life", get the facts, make a decision and don't care what people think mind state. All of the denial in the world can't change facts. Statistics may lie, but numbers never do.
Plagasx  +   316d ago
I'm done with this resolution crap.
Lord Maim  +   316d ago
Good! Congratulations, and hope you enjoy your PS4!
BOLO  +   316d ago
It's alright...Resolution is done with you too.
MasterCornholio  +   316d ago
Good to hear why Microsoft used that awkward memory configuration.

Nexus 7 2013
bleedsoe9mm  +   316d ago
its a big assumption that the ESRAM bottleneck is the issue holding the xb1 from 1080p . it could just be the late final dev kits getting out and a extremely shortened dev time ,or something else , we have no idea , we won't know if there is an issue until we see the next batch of games .
#15 (Edited 316d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(21) | Report | Reply
MCTJim  +   316d ago
I cannot figure out why "sources" say its so hard to develop for. The ESRAM is the evolution of what was used in the 360 and it was easy to program for. I too agree that it would be final kits/drivers and software threw the devs for a loop. I do agree the PS4 may have an edge when it comes to development but not as much as certain people make it seem.
Cernunnos  +   316d ago
Because it is too little of it for todays games. You simply cannot fit a huge resolution like 1080p inside a 32mb frame buffer, let alone things like anti aliasing or other gpu-compute effects.

Last gen 32mb was a big enough frame buffer, today it isn't. Last gen also required a lot more work when porting games to begin with, due to the 3 very different architechtures.

This gen, devs will expect the consoles to run the PC versions, with some minor tweaks, since they are all essentially using a standard x86 architechture. Devs will then not be bothered to work around the 32mb limit, instead of just simply downgrading the resolution.
#15.1.1 (Edited 316d ago ) | Agree(14) | Disagree(3) | Report
iceman06  +   316d ago
The way that it was explained on another website, in terms of ESRAM, made it pretty simple. Think of the ESRAM as a highway. A highway can have 1 lane or several lanes. On Xbox, a simple 2 lane highway was sufficient enough to move the traffic (data) and was efficient at doing so. However, on Xbox One it's like trying to move New York or LA traffic using the same 2 lane highway. It will move, but will not be very efficient. Hence, the bottleneck. It simply needs more of that ESRAM to push the newer, larger textures through the frame buffer. Tiled resources and better tools should help this issue. But, when devs move more to gpu compute tasks it could further put a strain on the ESRAM.
vigilante_man  +   316d ago
Oh now. Not more denial. Come on guys, seriously?

We only heard about 30% differences. Now it seems up to 50% in some games. PS4 IS the most powerful games console in the world right now.

That does not mean the XB1 is not a massive step up from the 360. That does not mean owners will not have many great years of next gen magic. It only means PS4 has the raw GPU and unified Ram power advantage.

Look forward to your great XB1 games to come, the amazing TV and social features, and the awesome tech that gets developed for the very expensive and incredibly powerful Kinnect 2.

Just stop being in denial.
bleedsoe9mm  +   316d ago
come now , if you want to believe rumors as fact go ahead . i'm not ruling it out as a possibility just that you can't confirm it as the cause . and even the most staunch xbot fan can't claim that the ps4 must be easy to develop for and may have a slight power advantage , whether that coverts into a big difference down the road , is opinion not fact . and for the record i would put myself in the sony camp , although i have and will own both systems .
#15.2.1 (Edited 316d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(15) | Report
vigilante_man  +   316d ago
Did you actually read the article? Have you not read the many articles on the internet claiming developers find the PS4 much easier and faster to create games with? Have you not heard that XB1 multi-platform games will be less resolution than PS4 games?

The body of proof, my friend, is overwhelming. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The proof of the console power is in the resolution and fps (plus textures and effects).

Lets all agree and move on with enjoying next gen greatness on XB1 and PS4. To keep denying makes those in denial seem rather daft and foolish - neither of which I assume can be said of your good self.
bleedsoe9mm  +   316d ago
@vigilante_man if you believed early rumor of last generation you could have come to the conclusion the ps3 was less powerful than the 360 , although it turned out to be development issue with the cell and unreal engine . just as there is not enough evidence today only hints than can make people draw the wrong conclusion . we'll have a much better picture when these console are out and tested and the next batch of games arrive
#15.2.3 (Edited 316d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(2) | Report
stuna1  +   316d ago
@bleedsoe9mm

But many of the things mentioned of Microsoft are no longer rumors! They are proven facts, with more facts coming out daily. We know that there is a disparity concerning multiplatform titles, proven! There are difference in resolution, proven! Difference in Hardware, proven! Difference in support, proven! Difference in pre-orders, proven! What more needs to be proven!?
Badassbab  +   316d ago
It's not just ESRAM though. The GPU in the Xbone is much weaker. That's got to count for a lot more than the RAM set up. ESRAM issue is frame buffer (lower resolution or inferior renders to fit inside 32MB) but what happens in the future when games get more complicated and taxing on the hardware? It won't be just the resolution that takes a hit but the rendering targets as well in order to keep the frame rate smooth.
sigfredod  +   316d ago
I think MS made a mistake, when they learn that the PS4 will have 8gb of ram instead of 4gb and also GDDR5, they knew that were on trouble, since they already had their console designed by that moment had to find a workaround, and the esram solution came up, but i imagine that by budget reasons the amount of esram was too low to compensate, they should swallow their pride and drop the forced kinect and put more esram, its what i think
Godhimself_In_3d  +   316d ago
That's the same thing rich of review tech usa said sega did it with the sega Saturn. Once the seen the specs of ps1 they just put another processor in it and look what happened
Drewidian  +   316d ago
One of the mistakes MS made was designing a system in comparison to another console. What they should have done is designed a system that could do all of the things they envisioned and make sure it ran at 1080P games with the potential to run at 4k for the future. I get it that they were trying to keep costs down, but apparently they are making a small profit on each system. Sony in contrast is loosing somewhere around $60/PS4. Sony's decision to do this is in part what is winning this round. If MS had just sucked up the cost of the DDR5 RAM and kept the system at $499, I think they would have met all of these requirements.

The biggest problem I think is the Business men's decision to keep the entire system profitable at launch, thus leading to the compromises in the hardware. I get there are probably other reasons to price the Xbox One where they did related to wholesale and unannounced partnerships, but I still think that the business decisions influenced the engineering a bit too much.
#17.2 (Edited 316d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
stuna1  +   316d ago
Exactly! Microsofts console should have been a natural evolution of what they, and their fanbase thought should have been the next step up. This is why it's so important to listen to the feedback presented to you, it helps you determine what the general consensus is, as well as what developers want. This is also why Microsoft was met with such strong opposition following their reveal, because they simply did not listen to the warning signs.
felidae   316d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(4)
Hakoom  +   316d ago
putting all the #s aside
lets wait and see what ps4 and x1 has to offer in 2~3 years
numbers and stats dont mean anything now
rmw2hot  +   316d ago
dead rising 3 is also a 720p game and I'm positive there's a lot more xbone games next year that's gonna b 720p
#20 (Edited 316d ago ) | Agree(14) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Mithan  +   316d ago
These problems will be worked out with time and it wont really matter, but ultimately it still means the PS4 is more powerful.

However, the PS3 was more powerful than the X360 and look where that went? Nowhere for the most part.
HappyWithOneBubble  +   316d ago
"However, the PS3 was more powerful than the X360 and look where that went? Nowhere for the most part."

Look at PS3 exclusives compared to 360. More power does matter. 360 got by with timed exclusive multiplats and DLC. MS scared to compete against Sony real exclusives.
Themba76  +   316d ago
thats because of two factors #1 reason is it was cheaper than ps3 #2 reason cross game chat sony made a huge mistake underplaying it most of my friends on xboxlive said they wouldn't touch a ps3 until they got crossgame chat. sony's system is indeed more powerful but those two factors really hurt them. oh and there is a 3rd reason too xbox 360 was easier to program for as well so those are the reasons.
#21.2 (Edited 316d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Nathaniel_Drake  +   316d ago
Isn't funny though that the powerful system actually for the first time beat an underpowered system, (talking about two consoles fighting for the same demographic not the Wii), well it seems games were the reason and really Sony is the only one that could have pulled that off
DevilishSix  +   316d ago
Nowhere for the most part, how you figure? The PS3 has had more exclusives and sold more than the 360 this gen. 360 is in last place in worldwide sales. Seems other than selling more units in US, the 360 has gone no where, especially in Europe and Japan.
HappyWithOneBubble  +   316d ago
Now that 360 is last in sales, MS don't brag about sales anymore lol.
Mithan  +   316d ago
It made no difference in the end. If you don't see that, you are blind. The systems are virtually identical sales wise, only stupid fan boys will bicker about the differences.

Both systems were a success. Done.

No, that doesn't mean this will happen again this generation, but it wont matter in a few weeks times.
imt558  +   316d ago
Yes, PS3 is really powerful than X360 and only PS3 exclusives show what PS3 can do. But there is diffence. Difference in FLOPS PS3 vs. X360 is about 60 GFLOPS in PS3 favor ( forget about 2 TF Sony PR bullshit at 2006. ). Difference between PS4 and XO is about 550 - 600 GFLOPS in PS4 favor. And that is not a small gap.
Hicken  +   316d ago
So your rebuttal when people respond to your comments with facts is, "You're wrong because I say you are. The little difference that DOES exist between PS3 and 360 won't change. The only thing that counts is what I say."

Textbook.
SynestheticRoar  +   316d ago | Funny
So what X1 went the wrong way with ESRAM. Microsoft still have the best fan boys on the planet. Period.
vigilante_man  +   316d ago
Whatever side you are routing for, that was funny!!
Sci0n  +   315d ago
bubble for being clever
DevilishSix  +   316d ago
I understand what MS planned here. They wanted a media device that also played games. They needed DDR3 because its better with operating systems (less lag) and the X1 has 3 operating systems in it. MS figured if they could sell this to gamers to start with then it would be smooth sailing as more and more casuals hoped on board and wanted the other features. What they didn't plan was Sony's launch this year.

Also, MS didn't plan on was how social media spreads like a wild fire now. When they launched 360 there was no facebook, twitter, etc. and the marketing falsehoods were exposed quickly and their jig was up.

MS also figured worse case scenario, it wouldn't matter because last gen Wii was least powerful and sold most, but problem was the Wii offered a new way of playing games with the Wiimote. The kinect has already run its course last gen and nothing released in the last 3 years showed we need it for gaming.
#23 (Edited 316d ago ) | Agree(19) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
imt558  +   316d ago
God damn! Very good article.
MultiConsoleGamer  +   316d ago
Nope.
#25 (Edited 316d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(12) | Report | Reply
Juangie3  +   316d ago
You so smart!! Lol
Daves  +   316d ago
.
#27 (Edited 316d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
Daves  +   316d ago
.
#28 (Edited 316d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
Daves  +   316d ago
Memory aside, maybe the GPU isn't up to it.

Either way, whatever the problem it's just not as good as PS4... it's that simple.

EDIT: the site froze on me. Didn't mean to post multiple times.
#29 (Edited 316d ago ) | Agree(12) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Nekroo91  +   316d ago
i wasnt expecting to see any difference for at least 3 years...

Im happy for sony
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