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Submitted by mukyoucom 168d ago | videocast

Critical Counter – David Cage is not a game maker but a Visual Novel artist.

"This week we talk about a man I think is more confused them myself. David Cage is not a game maker of sorts anymore but now he might just be the next best thing in Visual Novels." -Michael (Culture, David Cage, Industry, Quantic Dream)

Update Yes there is a typo in this posting but not the article post, was not paying attention, as this was done as a throw away to see what would happen.

2nd I use the word American as an aesthetic, probably should have said western but its to late now. I know people here did not comment on it but I thought I should clear that up as I know there would be confusion as Cage is French.

Also from the comments I have seen posted on what people think words and concepts mean I have to state a catch all response to it.

"Games are art, period. But not all games are good art. It is important to not lose sight of what things are and are not. I see many of you saying that media changes and evolves, just like movies, blah blah blah. And you are wrong on a fundamental level. If your examples were in fact valid then, Radio shows could be called movies, and tv shows could be called movies. There are things that make them different. It would be like saying Noby Noby Boy is a game, when it is actually a digital toy, which is a very opinionated statement, I know, but having a firm understanding that a game needs rules and goal that are an on off state in order to be a game is key and in many of your defense have forgotten be cause you are so desperately reaching to justify something unjustifiable. Never the less I support all opposing opinions that are not snarky (I did not watch the video but you must be,x,y,z) comments."

Attached Video
Axonometri  +   168d ago
I disagree. He is making a genre of video game. If you don't like it. don't play it. I enjoy "Cinematic Games." along with a lot of other types. I suppose you think games are not art also.
mukyoucom   168d ago | Personal attack | show | Replies(7)
CrossingEden  +   168d ago
Um, point and click games have been in gaming since it's conception. David cage is not creating any genre. -_-
AnotherProGamer  +   167d ago
Point n click games have elements of puzzle solving and exploration.
If his games are PnC than its a stripped down version of one
LeonhartX  +   168d ago
i stopped watching when he said american visual novel artist
Blank  +   168d ago
Yup good observation I was going to point that out but you beat me to it. So after I saw that I laughed, facepalmed, and practiced my voting skills of story quality and if I like the site (hint: I didnt like it) lastly how dare they try to define and box up what "video game" is if that was the case the gaming scene wouldve definetly not rival the movie industry like it does now which is a whole other thing I wont get in to today.
Mikelarry  +   168d ago
you actually watched it, after i saw his reply to the comment i didn't even bother. maybe its just me but i expect a journalist to act mature and able to convey his point without having to resort to personal attack when criticized
mukyoucom  +   168d ago
I hate the word journalist, it really has no place in the industry. I like enthusiast press. But saying something like "I suppose you think games are not art also." is a pretentious prick of a comment, and I will point it out. Secoundly, if you are looking at pure story, David Cage's work is grad schooler, in my opinion. Also many of you did not watch the video, but here is a hint: I actually praise the man for making something different, and comment on the benefit to the industry that it has.
MysticStrummer  +   168d ago
I didn't watch it at all. The summary was enough to turn me away.

@muk - "I hate the word journalist"

Well no wonder. They can generally spell and you can't.
#2.3 (Edited 168d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Lukas_Japonicus  +   168d ago
Who is this guy? Some guy with access to a video camera to voice his opinions on the web? Please.

David Cage's GAMES (because that's what they are) are different, cinematic videogames are still videogames., regardless if they are your kinda thing or not.
#3 (Edited 168d ago ) | Agree(21) | Disagree(12) | Report | Reply
mukyoucom  +   168d ago
Game: a form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck.
ifritAlkhemyst  +   168d ago
Stop taking the dictionary's definition of a game and applying it as a defense of your opinion. If that's all you've got, then I'd just relabel games as "Interactive Entertainment", which is a much more fitting description but a larger mouthful.

Btw, Cage's games are the worst things out there because he's a terrible writer, not because of his gameplay. Case in point, The Walking Dead.
NukaCola  +   168d ago
Video games are interactive entertainment.

An activity in which you interact with a digital medium in order to progress to completion of it's end.

If you're involved any way in moving the event forward for entertainment purposes, it isa game.
Axonometri  +   168d ago
Lukas I accidentally clicked disagree on your post. My apologies.
sypher  +   168d ago
Eugh...

Visual novel games. Notice I said visual novel GAMES. Are a genre of gaming. GAMES such as Zero Escape Virtues Last Reward, 999, Hakuoki etc are just that. Games.

Baseball is a sport. Football is a different sport. They involve vastly different activities but they are both sports.
Games are the same. They are not all the same, they do not conform to your narrow expectations of what a game is.
mukyoucom  +   168d ago
Sorry you cant just change what a word or thing is because you want to. Game has a definitive construct. You can do other things with a console that don't constitute as gaming. Anyone that actually knows about VN would tell you that it does not fall in line to what a game is, but some games can look like visual novels.
sypher  +   168d ago
A game never had a definitive construct. Just like a movie never has. It evolves over time. They are mediums.

Movies used to be simple too. Black and white affairs, no sound with large cue cards transcribing the sounds or punch lines of jokes. Movies evolved. I'm sure if you took a film maker from that era and shown him/her a large selection of the varied movies made today. He/She would say. These aren't movies.

But alas, the medium moves on. It leaves those with a shallow perception behind clinging to what they believe to be 'games'.

Your need to categorize what is and is not a game purely show's your limitations of understanding. Anything with human interactivity can be a game. Eventually that interactivity will be expanded upon. One day there wont be buttons or analogs, and again the medium will evolve.

Evolution is a good thing. It expands and brings new ideas and perspectives. Right now you wish to view the medium with a limited number of idea's and surround yourself with people of a similar perspective. There is nothing wrong with that. And those experiences you enjoy will remain as long as you keep buying them.

But you will be left behind eventually.
#4.1.1 (Edited 168d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(2) | Report
MethCupcakes  +   168d ago
You’re an idiot.
Baka-akaB  +   168d ago
"Anyone that actually knows about VN would tell you that it does not fall in line to what a game is"

Sounds more like you dont know at all what a VN actually is . nor any adventure games from that matter ... a staple of gaming since the late 80s ...
ABeastNamedTariq  +   168d ago
I'm sorry - I really don't mean to "attack" you, but you come off as an asshole.

It's a video game whether you like it or not.
rainslacker  +   168d ago
Well if we're going to go by definitions

Video Game
any of various GAMES played using a microcomputer with a keyboard and often joysticks to manipulate changes or respond to the action or questions on the screen.(Fairly generic here, but it extends to modern games as well)

Game(Multiple definitions, but here's the most relevant)
an amusement or pastime

I highly encourage you to read this on Wikipedia. You will find that this "construct" you are holding on to is not so definitive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Note how various people have tried to define what a game is.

For giggles though, lets put games into a construct. Chris Crawford, someone much more reputable than you to define what a game is came to this conclusion

"Crawford's definition may thus be rendered as: an interactive, goal-oriented activity, with active agents to play against, in which players (including active agents) can interfere with each other."

So is Beyond all these?
1. Interactive: Obviously it is. You use a controller, walk around, press buttons to change things, etc.

2. goal-oriented: Yep. The goal is to continue the story and reach the end.

3. Active agents to play against: Yep, as you play as Jodie, you are playing against Cops, the CIA, the landscape, some dogs, etc.

4. Players or active agents can interfere with each other: Yes again. As you play, the other "agents"(NPC's) that Jodie interacts with hinder her progress through the game and one must find a way around them. In pivotal scenes, the outcomes of these interactions are reflected directly in the story. Because of this, just because you can't really fail in the game, it doesn't mean that you get the "best" possible outcome in the end. Thus they interfere.

Look at all the other definitions there now. You can literally look at Cage's work and see that in some way, it falls within almost every definition of what a game is.

You don't like Cage's work fine, but don't discredit his status as a game maker, because by almost any definition of the term, he does make video games.

On a side note: It's generally a good rule on here that if you want to post your stuff to not attack those who have a different opinion than you. Most people that post their own stuff are at least open to discussion on the things they say.
#4.1.5 (Edited 168d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(1) | Report
GentlemenRUs  +   168d ago
I thought personal blogs and youtube videos from non-company channels were banned?

Not only that but the Video was blocking the reports section... I managed to remove it with chrome and report though.

Beyond is a game, If you don't like it then you must be someone from the COD era =/

EDIT:
1/ Click the double-cogs
2/ Inspect element
3/ Ctrl+F "Youtube"
4/ Delete the HTML block(I-Frame) with the video in it
5/ Submit report
#5 (Edited 168d ago ) | Agree(11) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
mukyoucom  +   168d ago
Actually they are not banned and your are wasting your efforts, if you look at the submit for this you would it is under videocast. But do as you like. Also David Cage supporters seem to talk less criticism then the man himself before attacking. This actually makes me happy that it is inadvertently trolling people because of their own auto defense.
Stick89  +   168d ago
Beyond is a game. Just like Machinarium, Escape from Monkey Island etc.. are games too. Stop being narrow minded, also using a picture like that for your article isn't helping you any.
MysticStrummer  +   168d ago
"This week we talk about a man I think is more confused them myself."

"...more confused them myself."

"…them myself."

I disagree.
SolidGear3  +   168d ago
Whatever. David Cage is brilliant and Beyond is one of the best games I've played in 25 years. The Last of Us is the only game I can think of that rivals Beyond.

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