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Submitted by Sev 325d ago | news

Shuhei Yoshida Further Discusses PS4 Game Installs, Data Will Stay HDD After Playing

PSLS: Back on Monday, we let you know about Shuhei Yoshida revealing that those massive PS4 installs were cached data and you could easily delete them if you needed to.

Since it left some people confused, Shuhei took to Twitter and answered some questions, with the first and foremost coming when someone asked if “so when you say cache, you mean install? Just that it is installed automatically in the background?” Here’s his answer (PS4)

SonyNGP  +   325d ago
Isn't this pretty much like how it is right now?
sigfredod  +   325d ago
If you are doing this right now then please explain me how you do it, i would love to install my games on the background while i'm playing it, wwhat is your secret?
#1.1 (Edited 325d ago ) | Agree(22) | Disagree(7) | Report | Reply
SonyNGP  +   325d ago
I meant the installation (not for every title) and the fact that it stays on your drive unless you decide to delete it. No need to smartass me.

@xPhear Noted. Thanks!
#1.1.1 (Edited 325d ago ) | Agree(16) | Disagree(8) | Report
abzdine  +   325d ago
the installation files will stay in the HDD as it is now, but the new feature is that it installs while you play, and that's a good thing. I also think the reason why they did it this way is because the install files must be massive.
i might already think to upgrade that 500GB
darthv72  +   325d ago
Im confused. Are all PS4 games required to install while playing? We arent going to play right from the disc?

So if the game installs, will the disc still be needed after installation (like the 360 does) for verification?

Honestly, i was under the impression that Ps4 games could be played from the disc and that it was the XB1 that did the whole mandatory install the game in order to play thing.
lsujester  +   324d ago
PS4 has to "cache", which means data is going on your HDD regardless. It's not a full install, so it will read the disc while playing, but the most heavily used data will be your HDD for quicker loading. There's no way around it, so there will be no playing from the disc only.

It is still an option to fully install the game to your hard drive if you'd rather, though.
inveni0  +   324d ago
This is perfectly fine with me, as long as it really does install while playing. This way, I won't mind clearing data out in order to make room for another game. For instance, let's say I want to make room for The Order sometime next year. Well, I haven't played Shadow Fall for a while, so I'll just remove it. Uh oh. My son came home from school and has an online match of SF scheduled with his friends! No bother. All games install while playing. So we don't have to wait on fixing something someone else removed.

That sounds like a great way to handle installs.
dantesparda  +   324d ago
I dont like this, it wastes way to much space. I would have preferred say a 50 gig area for caching game data, then the rest of the HDD be ours to choose what we wanna do with it. The option to install games would have been nice. This is basically just mandatory automatic game installs. No different than X1. The only plus here, is that at least Sony lets you change the HDD, whereas MS doesnt. But i do think that Sony should allow external drives to, if this is the case. Cuz, 400~ gigs is not going to be nowhere near enough with 10-50 gig games
#1.1.6 (Edited 324d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(2) | Report
zeee  +   324d ago
off topic but do you guys think that due to the x86 architecture the next gen consoles will be easily hacked? I'm no expert so I hope someone with better x86 knowledge will be able to shed some light on this.
xPhearR3dx  +   325d ago | Helpful
No. On PS3 you have mandatory installs. Meaning like GTA V for example, you'll have to install 8GB and wait a good 20min before you play anything. 360 has no (with the exception of a few) mandatory installs, but can install the entire game optionally. Which could take anywhere from 10-30min.

With the PS4, you have a mandatory install for the entire game, however it's done in the background as you play. You put the disc in, hit play, and as you game, it installs to your HDD. That data (30-50+GB) will stay on your HDD until you manually delete it.

In short. It's basically PS3 mandatory installs but the entire disc, and it takes place in the background instead of making you wait. It's a good thing. You're HDD will fill up fast, but since you don't need to wait to install anything, it's not that big of a deal.
#1.2 (Edited 325d ago ) | Agree(18) | Disagree(8) | Report | Reply
Fireseed  +   325d ago
+1 For helpful, thank you was a bit confused myself but thank you for clarifying. So I take it the HDD space isn't too much of a concern then seeing as you can easily delete and re install games.
MizTv  +   325d ago
I hate waiting for installs so this is a good thing
alexg587  +   325d ago
So are you saying that since it downloads while i play....what if i save my game quit it delete the data then play again later on would i be able to proceed with my game after deleting the install ? You seem to be well informed lol
aCasualGamer  +   325d ago
Thanks for clearing that out. If it's true that it's mandatory install for the entire game on PS4, then it's pretty much BS. Idiotic to fill up the HDD for no reason... Does this mean that if you delete the install you'll have to play the "gimped" version or the version with more framerate drops?

It's not a problem since the install is done in the background, but the fact that you have to delete it manually to reserve space in HDD is just stupid beyond belief.

I don't want to have my HDD being full because of installs, i want it to be full because i buy lots of digital games and full because i port my movies to PS4 etc...
ZodTheRipper  +   324d ago
^"but the fact that you have to delete it manually to reserve space in HDD is just stupid beyond belief."

Maybe next-next-gen can read your mind and delete automatically what you don't want anymore.

"So are you saying that since it downloads while i play....what if i save my game quit it delete the data then play again later on would i be able to proceed with my game after deleting the install ?"

Of course, the process is simply reiterated. Your saved game will not be touched by deleting the game data. It's really not that complex, but it's awesome :D
#1.2.5 (Edited 324d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report
xPhearR3dx  +   324d ago
The install automatically starts every time you put the game in if the PS4 doesn't detect the game cache on the HDD. Sure you can delete it, but next time you start the game it will proceed to install again.

However, you'll need that space required or you can't play the game. So for Killzone, if I remember correctly is like 45GB or something. If you don't have 45GB free on your PS4 you'll need to delete other games cache data, PSN games etc before you can play said game.
aCasualGamer  +   324d ago
^Zod... well isn't it stupid though? That we get 500GB of storage, and it goes to waste because you have to reserve 50GB for every game you purchase.....

I mean, if that isn't stupid then i don't know what is.

And yeaaaah... there should be an automatic setting for deleting the installed game after you quit. That would be preferable over having to do it manually after every playthrough.

Can't believe this truly is what nextgen will be like... ugh...
GribbleGrunger  +   325d ago
The main difference is with an install you have to wait for it to fully install before you can play while with the PS4 you can play while it's installing. It makes it much easier to juggle the space if it starts filling up.

For instance, let's say you buy Driveclub but your HDD is filled up. You would delete KZS and play DC until it's fully installed, but the key here is that you are 'playing it' while that process takes place. Then a week later you want to play KZS again and delete DC. ALL the caching does is improve speeds of loading menus and levels so it's not a great problem to keep switching.
#1.3 (Edited 325d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
BISHOP-BRASIL  +   325d ago
Exactly, this means that even if your storage fills up fast, deleting and reinstalling is much easier/faster and hence 500GB is not that restrictive even when you have to install the whole game.

I would add through that it's potentially bad news for those expecting to use a SSD, as with SSD you can only rewrite so many times before a block is no longer useable... So if someone is planning on using SSD for PS4, you better get a huge one and not need so much rewriting.

Also, for anyone interested in SSD or hybrid storage solutions, does you guys know what SATA port does the PS4's southbridge have? I believe it's "SATA 3" (or Sata III, Sata 600, basically a 6 GB/s connection for those unfamiliar with it, it's needed to take full advantage of SSD, Sata 2 and Sata 1 can be potentially maxed out with much cheaper HDD and I don't feel like burning money at launch unless it's worth it), but I had not yet seen any confirmation.
Blaze929  +   324d ago
So does the PS4 require installs for everygame like the Xbox One too?
mosaic37  +   324d ago
no is not because the install are a fraction of the size when compared to the hard drive size that you have in your console. assuming you have 120GB or more. But with 500GB and an install of this size it's like having a 20GB hard drive when the PS3 first came out. Not enough space at all. And this goes for XB1 as well. In the end customers will eventually have to spend more money in upgrading their consoles.
acharlez  +   325d ago
My PS4 hard drive is gonna fill up fast.
esemce  +   324d ago
If the PS4 blurays are 50Gb and we need 45Gb for killzone then this is almost the same as a full install, If you delete the 45gb cache then the next time you want to play the game it would copy the files to your Hard drive again.

Sounds very similar the what the Xbone does, if you dont have 45gb free on your hardrive the no game play for you.

This is basically a mandatory full install, unless I see a PS4 game that is 40+gb in size but only needs <10gb cache file to prove otherwise.

Thank f@k it installs in the background.
#2.1 (Edited 324d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
KrisButtar  +   325d ago
I'm more confused now than I was.
Kryptix  +   325d ago
Let me explain in simple terms...

As you play the game, the disc automatically installs itself into the hard drive which results in better loading times the next time you decide to play it. This not only speeds up loading times, but helps textures to load up quickly as you play and also prevents the blu-ray laser from getting extra wear and tear because the disc data can be easily read from the hard drive. (where the PS4 keeps the memory.)

Just play the game as you normally do and if you run out of hard drive space, you can delete the disc data to make room for other games. This article also says the data deletion has to be done manually and not automatically. Really, it's a lot like the PS3 but you don't have to wait for games to install to play them.
#3.1 (Edited 325d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
KrisButtar  +   325d ago
[b]Really, it's a lot like the PS3 but you don't have to wait for games to install to play them.[/b]"

Thanks bubble up "helpful"
I_am_Batman  +   325d ago
Some PS3 games did install in the Background as well. My concern is that the games that did that on the PS3 suffered from bad framerate while installing.

I wonder if it will have a negative effect on PS4 games. I'm not sure if sacrificing performance in the first playthrough make sense just to improve the performance of the second playthrough..

The installing seems to be mandatory so one might think that the disc drive isn't fast enough to load all the data needed in time. But that wouldn't make sense either cause if the disc drive would be too slow it wouldn't be possible to install while playing.

We really need to get an in depth report on how this will work while playing the game.
dantesparda  +   324d ago
i share your concern Batman
Kayant  +   325d ago
Well I take back what I said early it looks like full install for everyone this gen better get that 1TB HDD ready :p

So the confusion was that we thought by caching he meant the data was temporary.

But what he meant was that instead of having to wait for it to install like you do now it is instead done automatically in the background. Which would mean it's caching the data from the disc as you play until it's fully installed.

Is this right???

FAQ is needed twitter is not enough for this.
#4 (Edited 325d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
MasterCornholio  +   325d ago
"Well I take back what I said early it looks like full install for everyone this gen better get that 1TB HDD ready :p"

You mean PS4 owners because Wii U users and Xbox One users can't upgrade their HDDs and they are limited by the slow speeds of externals.

Nexus 7 2013
Kayant  +   325d ago
Not so much with XB1 when the patch arrives as long as they get a 3.0 external HDD speeds should be fine I think. Like GribbleGrunger explained above this is actually not too bad as long as you don't too have much DD content because you can always delete the disc data for one game you haven't played in a while then play your current game without waiting for it to install and repeat that process each time.
#4.1.1 (Edited 325d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report
GribbleGrunger  +   325d ago
Correct. What happened is that Yosh was describing the 'process' and people were confusing it with the end result. As I mentioned above though, it makes juggling your space very easy because you can still play while you are caching.

They're obviously using the same tech they are gong to use for PSN downloads, in that you can start playing before it's fully downloaded. This suggests to me that it's hardware based and not software based, which should mean the process will be faster too.

I was worried too, but I really don't mind swapping as long as I can get straight into the game. I juggle space regularly on my PS3 at the moment and it's a pain in the bottom because I have to fully uninstall and fully install before I can play.

I'm happy with this solution. And who's to say that there isn't (or will be in the future) a setting that allows this process to happen automatically in the background. Maybe a system that determines which game you play the least or which game you haven't played in a long time, and automatically deletes it as you cache the new game.
#4.2 (Edited 325d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
PositiveEmotions  +   325d ago
We already know this well at least allot of us do.
Wedge19  +   325d ago
I still don't understand why the installs of disc games are almost as large as the download version though. That's never been addressed.
Drekken  +   325d ago
It is basically copying the whole game and putting it on your HDD. The benefit of the disc is you can just delete the cache if you need room and install on next playthrough. You can also trade your disc in...
fpshooter2  +   325d ago
After the installation is completed will we be able to play without the disc?? Or will we still need it?
dantesparda  +   324d ago
you'll still need the disc
#6.1.2 (Edited 324d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report
StrangerX  +   324d ago
Sorry to say this but originally sony had the same ideas as Microsoft to install games because they have DRM included in their system and that's why of the day one mandatory update that, apart from fixing some bugs it bypasses the DRM check and allows the game to be traded but at the same time whe you trade the game it wont let you play the saved game and it just be taking space. If you guys don't believe me like I would be some fanboy or something, this link has the patent to prove it:

http://appft.uspto.gov/neta...

Installing a game has some benefits that are related to faster loading of game, direct updates inputs, better bug fixes, apart from checking that you still have the game by verifying it with the disc. good day
:)
#6.2 (Edited 324d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Idba  +   325d ago
Im glad we can download and install in the background, waiting for a game to download then install felt like hell!
ANIALATOR136  +   325d ago
i need to know whether we can play music from our hard drive in game or not
WeAreLegion  +   325d ago
They have confirmed that you can play Music Unlimited in-game, but nothing else. I'm personally hoping Spotify and Google Play Music get apps on the PS4 I can use. Music Unlimited sucks.
Withdreday  +   324d ago
Hopefully that's improved via a patch.

Having current gen systems that can't play MP3's is nuts!
LOL_WUT  +   325d ago
Yea they only mentioned you can listen to your music with the Unlimited Music app which was really disappointing I hope that changes come release day.
esemce  +   324d ago
Having to stream games and your own music from the same HDD would create disc head seeking problems (stutter/lag).

And no you will not be able to play the game without the bluray in the disc drive.
ANIALATOR136  +   324d ago
I thought the PS4 had dedicated chips including one for music
#8.3.1 (Edited 324d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report
WeAreLegion  +   325d ago
Who thought 500 Gb would be enough?!? After a year of games and PS Plus, you'll be deleting and re-installing games every time you want to play something. I already do that on my PS3. Half of my games aren't even installed!
Destrania  +   325d ago
Um, it still seems like you don't have to 'cache' games if you don't want to? I don't know lol.
Dlacy13g  +   325d ago
So this basically is working exactly how they originally discussed it. Put the game in the drive...it starts to install....in approx 5 min you can start playing while it installs the rest of the game. Appears to the be same as with Xbox One. Both consoles effectively have mandatory installs for all games its just with the next gen you can start playing mid install (for games that allow it mind you). You most certainly are still going to need to monitor your HDD as it fills up unless at some point you opt to add a different drive.
feraldrgn  +   325d ago
Pretty much like a plug & play, instead of having to wait for the install to finish.
Thankfully we can delete the games we're not playing & if we ever go back to the game again, it'll just install in the background again & you won't notice.
#12 (Edited 325d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
svoulis  +   325d ago
This guy is buying a 1tb drive in prep for Launch.

Caching or not I think this is to blame for the Blu ray slow Read speeds.

Think of it this way. Next Gen consoles will be like PC's (in a sense) regardless you need to install the game data, as the disc will just be too slow with all that's going on in the games.
solidboss07  +   324d ago
It works like GT5, no?
Mikeyy  +   324d ago
Sounds like it works exactly like oblivion worked. Put the disc in. Start playing. The data will be installed in the background. The further the install gets, the quicker your load times will get.
isarai  +   324d ago
Well, i am most Definitely upgrading my HDD
kingPoS  +   324d ago
It's a good thing HDD capacities & capabilities are on the advance. A 2tb HDD in the PS4 is a close reality, heck we're at 1.5tb @ 2.5in x 12.5mm form factor already. Even stuffing SSHD hybirds into the PS4 look promising.

Thanks Sony for looking out for us gamers.
dbjj12088  +   324d ago
Gotta replace that HDD fast.
mosaic37  +   324d ago
Typical of Sony always hiding stuff until they have fooled many custumers into preordering their products. They always tell us what we want to hear, but they don't give us what we want. If you leave aside your fanboy mind and think about this, you will notice how dirty they marketing skills are. That is more arrogant than microsoft. This is why I just cancelled my order. At least Microsoft told us like it was and when they changed their mind it was for the best not worst. Thanks Yoshida. What else you are hiding from your fans?
#19 (Edited 324d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
MAULxx  +   324d ago
Ok, so, if I decide to do a full game install of AC4, I can start playing while the game installs in the background?
Also, full install with background install for every game?

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