A few months back, the popular narrative was that Microsoft was on the ropes with Xbox One. They had flubbed the reveal badly, and Sony had revealed PS4 so perfectly, that the console race was already over.
Now it remains to be seen whether Microsoft will maintain this humility, flexibility, and openness to consumer criticism. The Don Mattrick debacle earned them a great deal of well-earned skepticism toward their intentions. However, it also remains to be seen whether Sony will respond to the waves of adulation and support by charging ahead, rather than rest on their laurels and fall back into the sort of attitude and mentality which made the the initial reception of the PS3 go so poorly. Only time will tell.
Journalists keep saying that MS listened to the feedback from the fans, but that is not true, even before they announced their previous policies, fans were aware of things like the DRM, and they spoke their mind. Did MS do anything about it? Of course not, they thought they would still have a following. What happened next? The PS4 sold out way before the One, which is why MS did the 180. If anyone should be thanked for MS's reversals, it should be Sony
Very true there was plenty of time between the reveal and E3 and during all that time they stayed their course. What they did was to cancel interviews so nobody could ask them about their stupid DRM. Once the pre order numbers came in they changed their DRM and didn`t even apologize, they came of as butthurt that they had to change their policy. Their plan that Sony will do the same didn`t work out.
I'm a fan. I still want the ability to rip all my discs to the HDD and access them anytime and anywhere like I do digital content. The DRM they proposed is what made it possible. Thank Sony that this was ripped from the console? I really hope Microsoft allows users to opt in for this in the future. People claim that their rights were violated since they couldn't sell their games to their friends or give them away. It's great that you protected this so called right, but those rights violated my rights to do what I want. The difference is I actually pre-ordered the console unlike most that bitched just for the sake of bitching.
Oh my god.... Thank god this is only on N4G.... This is fanboy central.....
Wasn't Edge the same magazine that has a front page telling the world PS4 was going to destroy the X1? Now they've gone and pulled a 180 just like Microsoft! Looks like MS has been giving them the D (and by D I mean dollars).
@ Death The thing is, your personal desires would've come at the cost of actual ownership of your games and the rest of the anti-consumer bull that came with it. Sometimes you just need to stop and think what is for the good for your fellow gamers and the industry as a whole. "Bitched for the sake of bitching" - oh yeah, it was definitely that. Microsoft absolutely did nothing genuinely criticism-worthy.
You could still trade in your games Raptor. The only difference is you had to go to a retail store to do it. We have no idea how values would have changed. If their initial proposal of one trade per disc stayed in place, supply would have been limited which should have driven up the trade value. It's also possible the added fee would have been passed to the person trading the game in. We will never know since this was removed. As for the cost of ownership, the only options we have are: 1. all digital that we do not "own", can't trade, sell, or give away. 2. a physical copy that we can trade and sell, but can't access digitally without some form of DRM. The proposed feature Xbox One had was a combination of the two. We had all the benefits of a digital copy, but also had a physical copy that we could sell or tradein. The restrictions were it had to be at an authorized retailer and a 24 hour check in was required to verify our libraries. To me and quite a few others it was a good compromise. We no longer have that choice though thanks to the vocal few that most likely aren't buying the console anyway.
@Death Trade value is determined by what people will pay for the game. Supply only means something on new releases. Older games would still be worth little to retailers, and it's quite possible with the fee, they would just stop accepting older games because people wouldn't pay the price+fee to get an older game. I can also pretty much guarantee that that fee would be taken from the trade in value for this very reason. A game will only sell if the price is right, and these retailers aren't going to take a hit for the gamers benefit. You seem to be OK giving power to the retailers and MS in this regard. Yet see no problem not being able to do private sales or trades? It's anti-consumer. They offer recourse, but not in ways that are beneficial to the consumer. If MS wants to do this stuff with digital content I say more power to them. Let them be a leader in the DD market because of it. However, I think what you'll find is that selling your digitally purchased games isn't going to be the awesome feature that many are making it out to be. What's the point unless you sell it dirt cheap? In this what makes it any better than just going to GameStop to trade it in for a new game?
Just based on history, one of these companies is far more likely to stay their current course than the other. I doubt anyone has to guess which.
To be fair, Microsoft will not stop flip-flopping until they're all the way into your pockets and have a hand up your rear like a puppet as far as your consumer freedoms and ownership rights go. They may be more subtle about it, or try and be upfront about it next time to act as though they're doing you favours by taking control, but they are certainly dedicated to their original vision of DRM and anti-consumer policies and nothing will change that, whether they try it a few years down the line, or at the start of the generation after next. http://www.gamesindustry.bi... http://www.theguardian.com/...
@PS4beaver HAHA, A fanboy complaining about fanboys, Typical Xbots.
Sony has a "perfect" reveal because they've been listening to their fans ever since the psn hack, but MS gets the edge because they made a extremely stupid decision and turned back on it because of fan rage?
I think it was the pre order numbers that forced them to turn back
ikr they didn't listen to fans they just looked at their low pre orders and the backlash they got and then changed it so their big investment wouldn't go to waste.
It's a logic instilled through the MSFT fanbase through repetition. Behavioral modification at it's finest.
I disagree that Microsoft is listening to us gamers. Maybe they should show us why we need a kinect
You don't need it... but they want you to use it. The voice commands are going to define it much more than the motion control. Examples: Xbox snap friends or Xbox snap Twitch Xbox On... and have it turn the console on along with the tv and the tv going to the proper input
Snap feature seems kinda cool, but I would rather have those system resources going toward what I am playing. Granted, I have a 55 inch TV sitting right next to my 60, so I have less need of a snap feature then most. I am also concerned that the Kinect 1 could do most of what this new one can (voice command etc.), and nothing compelling was ever done with it. Why will the new one be any different? I don't see how increased resolution will suddenly lead to good ideas
That's my whole issue. I really don't care about what a wonderful piece of tech kinect is, and I'm not willing to give it a chance. Cool for people that want it, I'm sure it'll enhance your particular experience. I don't want it, and I will not purchase it. So, I feel it is anti-consumer to put it as a mandatory purchase, that's it. Nuff said. That's where me stance is, and it's not changing. I've got nothing against Microsoft, but I want to like their product, but nothing they've presented is doing anything for me. Only the prospect of a better Halo, like when Bungie made it, is what's keeping a little of my interest.
Kinect is what will make them a lot of money through ads, the thing will be listening to you and watching your place to pop up ads in yohr face according to the information in gathers. This they said already. That's what will make them millions so they don't give a flying fck about what us gamers really want.
Staticdash.. So i guess you are the defacto in the subject huh.. Soo because you don't want it means its anti-consumer?! What about those like me that don't want to see 2 ps4's in the market, if you want 2 ps4's then buy Two! Stop trying to turn the xb1 into a ps4.. Do you even realise how ignorant you Sound? Right from the start of your post you say you won't even give kinect a chance then end it with " i want to like it" c'mon man just take your lop-sided stance over to the ps4 line with all the other weirdos that think they are above everyone else.. Wikki.. Im glad ms is including kinect imo i think it can add great experiences and immersion to games, now don't get me wrong Im pretty sure i won't be much of a fan of the kinect only games.. I just want the simple things like head tracking voice command gestures etc.. To compliment the buttons, i really don't want kinect to take over my kind of games just add to it..Can I will probably buy the eye toy or whatever the camera for the ps4 is called just to show support for the tech and they have some cool features too i noticed those little space suit men, my kids would have a blast with that... I hoped Sony would include it too so the tech could have full support, oh well my best wishes for kinect i hope it really takes off...
Perfection V humility? Perfection V humiliation.
Somy had an entire last gen of humiliation, kudos to them for getting it right after 7 years. MS made changes in months, and change for the better is not analogous to humiliation. Sony came out eating humble pie, and MS with Sony's(past) arrogance. I am glad MS got knocked back a peg, it was good for it.
I would say that Sony got it right a LOT faster than 7 years later. It just took the media, and gamers that didn't own one, longer to jump on board. In the end, I'm glad that Sony and MS have been able to prove why they still belong in the industry...for the SAKE and economic health of the industry, if anything else.
I agree, that it's better for the industry if both companies are healthy, and better for the consumer.
"Sony eating humble pie, and ms with sony's (past) arrogance" That is so frikin True! Im glad they got knocked back a peg as well and, despite what many will say, a quick change upon demand was a very important and great move although i really think ms simply needed to present it better. I think ms was not ready, i think Sony caught them completely off guard when they announced the ps4 and that's why they couldn't relay their vision all that well just yet. Imo ms came with a better over all console, for me any way.. I know everyone here wants their console to play games and nothing more but being a game from the Atari days Im glad to see a video game console at least try to take over not just games but my tv as well and all by voice Too?I! How can a old school gamer not get excited about kinect and the hdmi Input?
I am still puzzled how Sony = perfection. Their launch lineup is pretty weak except for Killzone. Microsoft and Sony both have made mistakes already. Yet somehow Sony's are waived? Dat n4g logic.
Sony's the embodiment of perfection. Jk
Well said. I think Sony's launch lineup is horrible. I've never liked a Killzone game, so even that one means nothing to me, personally.
Awesome. Dead rising is tedious, Forza is half baked, Ryse looks boring... and that's about it. Killzone looks like a true joy, can't wait for it and all the other fun looking games.
Everyone has their own opinions... I love Dead Rising, and I think Ryse looks fantastic. I'm not really into racing sims, so I won't be playing Forza, either.
And Microsoft's launch lineup is any stronger? What about AFTER launch? Cuz, you know, you'll be playing more than just launch games for the next 7 years or so. Well, I will, anyway. And name ONE mistake Sony's made that's been as grand as Microsoft's. I'm sorry, but nothing in gaming has been as bad as their forced DRM was. Not just the policy itself, but the "deal with it," "buy a 360," "people don't know what they want" kind of comments that they tried to pass off as justification. Edit: Nobody acts like Sony is some faultless deity. It's just that MS fans see how few mistakes Sony is making and then ASSUME that's what Sony fans think. There's a difference between being flawed- as we all are- and going out of your way to screw things up. That's the difference between Sony and Microsoft, right now.
Sony has made quite a few mistakes, I was just using the line up as an example. The driveclub delay less than a month is pretty big. No HDMI capture at luanch is a rough one. Making a controller with a built in Move bar, then removing the camera just to cut costs. There are a few. And those mistakes are permanent, where as the whole M$ DRM thing is pointless to argue since its not happening. Next year for Microsoft we have Fable Legends, Quantum break, Sunset Overdrive, Halo 5, and Titanfall. 2014 sounds great already. I am not trying to somehow justify Microsofts mistakes...but you people act like Sony is some god who has never made a mistake.
"That is probably one of the dumbest things I have read on N4G" Have you been reading any of your own comments and somehow finding logic in them? You're saying these "mistakes" (not mistakes) are permanent. THEY ARE NOT PERMANENT and they are not exploiting a consumer in any way. You are trying to spin this to make it seem like sony has screwed up in some way. With a delay of drive club, with no hdmi capture right at launch or camera included. Are you kidding me saying what I said was dumb, you sound like you a 5 year olds logic with your odd points you're trying to make. They wont force a camera on me, they will give me HDMI capture in an update, I will gladly use my controllers move bar when I decide to buy a camera someday and I will buy Drive Club knowing Sony didn't force labor to make it.
Those mistakes are permanent.... The PS4 will not have HDMI capture at launch. That is not changing. Choice of a camera? You do know Sony themselves have said they were going to add the camera but didn't due to cost, not customer choice. Again Eye will not come with every console. That's permanent. The Move bar was added because originally Sony was going to include a PS Eye with every PS4 and to increase the features of the Dualshock 4 , again that's from their mouths. No one was denying that Sony wont have great exclusives. I didn't say they wouldn't. Which is why I will be picking up a PS4 when Infamous hits. It is pretty obvious you are trying to somehow justify your purchase of the PS4 because you felt the need to say somehow Crytek went into "crunch" mode and weren't allowed to see their families, and somehow Evolution delayed Driveclub so they could see their families. "Drive Club being delayed because they don't make devs crunch to get games done for launch (crytek), they allow them to see their families. " That is probably one of the dumbest things I have read on N4G
double post* "That is probably one of the dumbest things I have read on N4G" Have you been reading any of your own comments and somehow finding logic in them? You're saying these "mistakes" (not mistakes) are permanent. THEY ARE NOT PERMANENT and they are not exploiting a consumer in any way. You are trying to spin this to make it seem like sony has screwed up in some way. With a delay of drive club, with no hdmi capture right at launch or camera included. Are you kidding me saying what I said was dumb, you sound like you a 5 year olds logic with your odd points you're trying to make. They wont force a camera on me, they will give me HDMI capture in an update, I will gladly use my controllers move bar when I decide to buy a camera someday and I will buy Drive Club knowing Sony didn't force labor to make it.
@Hicken "What about AFTER launch? Cuz, you know, you'll be playing more than just launch games for the next 7 years or so." What about it Hicken? Do you have a DeLorean that will transport you seven years in the future? So we have to wait seven years and see if MS will "supposedly" drop support but until then keep getting the great games like we are now from launch. I'll take that risk, and lets not forget that now it is acceptable to use 3rd party multiplats (and indie games from PC)to boost a line up. Such AWESOME logic this guy Hicken has. Once again making himself look like an absolute tool. "And name ONE mistake Sony's made that's been as grand as Microsoft's." How about the one little incident of Sony's whole network being hacked and having to shut down for close to a month. Remember that little incident that actually EFFECTED their user base and not something that was reversed before it hit the shelves!!! And how about little great sayings like "you'll want two jobs to get a PS3" or "Next gen starts when we say so". Such a pick and choose type of memory you have that only supports your own agenda.
"Nobody acts like Sony is some faultless deity." Except of course for almost everyone on N4G. Seriously now, read some comments around here and you would think these people are expecting the second coming of Christ on 11/15. It's embarrassing.
@scott Ask Sony interns about forced labor.
The PSN hack, what are you even going on about right now.
I can ignore what they originally wanted to do, because it's, once again, NOT HAPPENING. The driveclub delay less than a month is pretty big. No HDMI capture at launch is a rough one. Making a controller with a built in Move bar, then removing the camera just to cut costs. There are a few. If you really want to dwell and point fingers at a company for something then look at the PSN Hack. Sony lost customer data, by your logic we shouldn't ever trust Sony again.
I like how you felt the need to edit your comment.....
I have no need to edit what I said. I'm not using a 5 year olds arguments. I messed up editing instead of replying.
@4logpc Well said mate. Sony had an amazing run after E3 but for me (getting both PS4 and XB1) Sony have been riding that wave for far too long.....Sony (only) fans have also given a free pass to a bad launch lineup (except KZ) and online subscription fees. I feel that MS dirty laundry has been well and truly aired, but Sony is still not telling the full story regarding PS4. IMO. Firstly, the launch lineup aside from KZ and Knack is either indie or released PC games. i game on PC and nearly all the so called exclusive games are already out on PC. After all these rumours about MS being behind in development, drive club is delayed? Second, now they are charging for PSN, what are Sony doing to combat MS azure network and the fact that all developers have access to dedicated servers? This for me is where next gen is......everything that both companies have been showing is revolved around being online, yet Sony hasn't mentioned any upgrades to PSN infrastructure.? Third - Gaikai? when will we get it? I'm not in the US so when will it be coming to the rest of the world? The more i think about having both consoles, the more XB1 is appealing to me in year 1? Time will tell. This isn't anything against PS4, i have it pre-ordered for a reason (naughty dog), but if infamous and the order aren't absolutely amazing games, the first year on XB1 will certainly make PS4 gamers envious when looking at DR3, Ryse, Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break, Killer Instinct, Project Spark, Titanfall, Fable Legends, Halo 5 and possibly black tusk's game. I have no idea where i'll find time to play all of the games coming out over the next year for both consoles, but I'll be having a shit ton of fun trying though!
I know some people would have preferred Xbox hadn't done thier infamous "180". Some people act like that's a bad thing. Or maybe they think Microsoft should be giving away the X1 for free?
I am one of those that wish they hadn't changed. I was looking forward to the digital sharing features that are gone now.
First of all there's no such thing as perfection. Microsoft truly screwed up with their mixed messaging and Sony played well upon it by sticking it to their competition and not saying much about their own features, but I expect things that we haven't really seen or known about with the PS4 to start appearing after launch. I'm thinking usability issues. There's a lot in that patch 1.5 article that was interesting and remains to be seen how well any of it works. Things Sony has not mentioned a word about up till now that you'd think they'd be talking more about previously like multiple logins with facial recognition. In fact a lot of this 1.5 update is playing catch-up with features that Xbox One already has. I'm by no means saying that Sony will screw this up at the finish line but I think I see cracks appearing in the perfect facade. Most people around here are just too pro-Sony to see it. I couldn't care less, I'm getting both and I see good and bad in both.
Sony didn`t specify what comes with the 1.5 update. They only said that those are the features that will be available on launch without giving details what is there out of the box and what is added with the update. I couldn`t care less about voice and facial recognition. Using a controller will always be faster overall to navigate than some voice commands that will never work 100% perfect.
Sony did the same thing, they listened to complaints of ps3 being difficult to develop for and expensive at launch.
spoken like true sony fans. a change is a change. especially when its a good chance. no one gives a damn why they changed. focus on what the machine is now. its a worthy opponent for the ps4 and maybe even more with all of the extra bells and whistles that are accessible to this device. it will be more than most peoples expectations can fathom. hate will get you no where. it will only scare idiots for a look title while, but all it takes is for those same idiots to get their hands on it and experience it for themselves without having to rely on the Sony fans views of a console that they clearly wanna see fail anyway. they will say anything to scare a consumer out of looking at the Xbox one and wanting to purchase it. so it can't be trusted. buy what feels right to you after both systems have been released.
nice article...people laughed but in the end its paying off for ms and thats the plain truth.
Not enough to beat Sony but at least to stay alive that's the plain truth.
lmao...i didnt even mention ps4, i simply implied ms reversals are paying off in the end..lmao..dude your insecurities are gettin the best of you...lol..
PS4=Ultimate Perfection Anyone who guesses where that saying is from gets a bubble ;)
Funny how some people still believe that Microsoft changed their policies because they listen to gamers. You have to be blind to believe that. Microsoft many times insulted their customers when they were giving feedback and say many things like "deal with it", "if you don't like it buy a xbox 360",that is what you call humility? Microsoft dropped their policies to follow PS4 business model when they saw the initial pre order number and how the PS4 was crushing the x1 on every online poll made including Amazon's. They changed because they had no choice not because they listened to their customers. The changed helped them of course but even with that it was not enough to beat Sony's PS4.
Funny how some people still believe that Microsoft changed their policies because they listen to gamers. You have to be blind to believe that. Microsoft many times insulted their customers when they were giving feedback and say many things like "deal with it", "if you don't like it buy a xbox 360",that is what you call humility? Microsoft dropped their policies to follow PS4 business model when they saw the initial pre order number and how the PS4 was crushing the x1 on every online poll made including Amazon's. They changed because they had no choice not because they listened to their customers. The change helped them of course but even with that it was not enough to beat Sony's PS4.
360 gamers don't want Kinect with it's high pricetag. How is that listening? They only rolled back the policies that were offensive to consumers. Now it's time to roll back their policy on Kinect and their pricing strategy...
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