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key word's? 'says Microsoft' let's forget the fact that plenty indies came out and spoke of their disgust at Microsoft money pinching ways it's just another 180 from Microsoft which of course is fine until they start trying to claim their way is best... like the last couple months of backlash from the indies was just our imagination.. seriously Microsoft need a new PR team and a bit of humbleness
I agree, they annoy indie gamers, the indie gamers speak out, MS change their policies towards indie gamers and now MS are saying they have best approach...its like they think we forget about the past few months. Your blindly loyal customers might fall for this PR crap Microsoft but half intelligent gamers see right through it. You announce policies and stick to your guns on them, then a few weeks later after tons of backlash you perform a 180 and act like they have seen the light and have the "best approach". MS, this is for you. http://williambeem.com/wp-c...
i think this is to target the casual gamers who have not been in the loop. some gamers are not in the know about all that happened last couple of months and ms is banking on their early adopters to get this new message across to the casuals. it will work only the well versed of gamers will remember this and when we bring it up in discussion in the future don't be surprised when you get "link or it never happened"
LOL says MS.....
That looks yummy. Lukas.
You forget that MS pushed XBL Arcade, then they pushed indie games before it was popular with XNA. Even to this day, nobody allows indies to publish a console game for a mere $100, let alone the fact that MS has free tools and a great developer community behind it. The competition requires indies to pay several thousand dollars for a dev kit, if they are even approved for one. Low barrier to entry is with MS platform, not the competitors. Maybe that is why they get so much flack, because the other devs getting a dev kit isn't going to speak up. They would jeoperdize getting banned, whereas on Xbox, anyone can publish and it is peer reviewed, thus no banning is possible. You can't get banned and there is no review by the platformholder to get a dev kit, because your Xbox is the dev kit! I expect a similar model on Xbox One!
@nuke That's all good and fine, but that's not what they were doing with the X1 when all the devs spoke out against it. The worst part that got all those indie devs pissed off was requiring them to have a publisher to put a game on Xbox. I haven't kept up with it, but from my understanding, MS has dropped support for XNA as of last year. Unless they have something else in the works, don't expect it to make an appearance on X1. I guess there's always Unity though. The indie games in question here are a step above XNA. They are fully certified games that go through the same process as big budget games. Not all indie games are crap, nor all they all from small hobbyist studios. The ones we see talking out now are fully-fledged studios who decide to make smaller games with more production value than the average XNA game. Also, On this day, Sony allows you to develop on the Vita for $99 through the use of PSMobile. PSP dev kits could be had for around $2000. Vita dev kits are around the same amount for the qualified indie studios out there. PS4 dev kits are being loaned out to qualified indie devs. Sony is pushing indie games hard, whereas MS has backed away from everything that made indies love them this gen. Don't believe me? When did you ever think that you would see indie devs get a spotlight on the E3 stage? Notch maybe, but 6 devs all with a few minutes dedicated to showing their games is golden for them, and shows that Sony see's indie games as more than the most popular ones that happen to sell millions of units.
Exactly lol when a company has to go out of their way to praise themselves then there is a problem. Indies have spoken.
I bet mentally he is doing this http://cdn02.cdnwp.celebuzz... during the interview. No Indies to back up this claim unlike Sony who had more then enough devs that were praising their indie approach.
So can u give me a run down list of the differences between MS and Sony on HOW and WHAT they do to support Indies? Self publishing? Full access to console/dev kit? Software support? Other perks: cloud support? It seems u just like to listen to what people say, but not on what they actually do. Any idea on how sony gonna support indie developers? Xbox lay out their plan, where is Sony?
@baodeus Sony gives out loaner dev kits. Sony gives heavy recognition and advertising to indies allowing for greater discovery. Sony outright helps fund indie studio games such as Journey. Sony has amazing software support for their development systems, I know, I've used it. Sony has opened up internal channels so indies don't have to jump through as many hoops to get their game through certification. Sony has a relatively low licensing fee for indie games. MS layed out their plan, and indies spoke out against it in a big way. Now MS is changing some of those policies, and I have yet to see a single indie dev say how awesome it is. You know why? Because they don't know yet. If they don't know, then it's readily apparent that MS isn't telling them, or us for that matter, how or what they are doing to support indies.
'Microsoft's approach to indie developers is best' - says Microsoft!
Microsh!t losing all respect from gamers (informed that is) one interview at a time. Their arrogance is disgusting! Pathetic!
everyone giving MS slack here like they personally spit in your coffee individually. I don't get whats up with Sony fans and mixing their feelings into a business/gaming. But anyway that's another topic: "Every retail Xbox One can be unlocked to serve as a development kit at no additional charge, given the manufacturer's permission. Developers no longer have to pay a fee for Xbox Live game certification or title updates." How is this NOT the "best approach" for indie developers? To where you can simply buy an Xbox One and unlock it as a devkit instead of relying on availability, make games on it, self publish, take down, price, etc? Complete control? How is Son'y approach any better for indie developers? What exactly are they doing different that makes it a better approach?
Because "wahhhhh wahhhhhh wahhhhhh" That's why. As if anybody cares, anyways. They are all phonies.
@Blaze929: According to indie devs, it's the support. I guess that means a lot than just having a "dev-kit" out of the box. Or they can use a PC.
In 2 months my current contract runs out with the program I am developing for a research study. These past couple months I, along with a few other people I know, plan on starting our own indie studio to produce a game we've been talking about for a while. I have a comment up above as to what Sony offers in their indie programs, I won't repeat it here. While all those things you say are good from MS, the fact remains that is all that is known about their indie policy at the moment. Believe me I've scoured high and low for more information, because that information is vital to what we will eventually do. I've even contacted MS directly, and all I get is a form letter saying more information will be made available when it's available. On top of that, all those things you mentioned have no firm plans in place, and absolutely no word on when they will become available. Sony on the other hand has a pretty firm indie policy in place. It's also extremely flexible. Sony doesn't hide it's indie policy from developers looking to get into it, they just don't go screaming from the rooftops that they have the best. They only assert the fact that they heavily support indie devs. From my own research, I can say they are well within their rights to do so. MS on the other hand had the audacity to say that indie's HAVE TO HAVE a publisher to put a game on their system. They've since reversed that policy. Given that though, and the reveal, you'll have to forgive me for being a bit skeptical on what MS definition of "complete control" is. @Malokevi From this comment I just made, I think you can see why I care greatly about what MS indie policy is. What I see is a bunch of xbox fan boys who know nothing of indie development defending a policy that even indie devs aren't up to speed on. Not one single indie dev has come out praising MS new policies, yet you all want to say that MS is now doing the right thing because of a few corporate press releases and scripted interviews.
says ms and so? dont see any indies complaining anymore since they announced the programme.infact harrison said the last time they hecked they had thousands of applications..most indies know ms started this indie stuff with the 360 and many of them were made popular cos of ms and the 360 so the change of policy they wanted wasnt just to suit them it was also to make ms more focused and give gamers the best.most of them wanted the change for the better and ms did it so jst shut up and stop trying to spin everything into the negative..give it a break.
You're right that there aren't any more complaints from indie developers. But you know what else? I don't hear of many- if any- new indie titles coming to XB1, either. So, realistically, why would they keep complaining about a platform they've got no future plans to work on? It made sense at the start, because the consoles and their indie policies were just being made known to the public. But now, after all this time, there's no reason for indie devs to give their opinion on why Microsoft's policies suck, or sucked.
Fart apps incoming since they are in total control of what they develop.
How can any indie dev not be annoyed/insulted by this.. A few months ago its f*** Indies, now it's we do it the best?
when was it ever f indies? http://marketplace.xbox.com... http://marketplace.xbox.com... theyve been doing this with XNA and competitions since 360 launched...3,101 total indie games up right now on Xbox LIVE vs how many on PSN? But they don't care? Yeah ok
Not what I saw over the past few months... ITS A TRAP!
I've just read where it says "best approach" and they don't say their policy is the best approach, why else would the title only quote "best approach"? It says: "And maybe we're taking a slightly different approach to other platforms but we think this is the best approach to getting the most developers and the best games on the platform." They're saying the way they are allowing indie developers to have the freedom to do what they want with the console is what they think is the best approach to get more developers making games for them, doesn't mean it's the best policy around... Why are people trying to put a spin on everything that every company is saying, whether it be Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo... MS might have goofed up earlier this year, they are making changes. They could have stuck with what they had, got less sales and completely flopped. Not all companies get it right the first time. It's like how people spout about how Steam is amazing and such, but I am pretty sure Steam hasn't always been amazing. I've read that it took them like 3 years before they started making a profit and took 3 years before they could get any third-party support. Steam has become what it is most likely through trial and error, it's a great service with many great deals, yet it took years for it to become anything. Another example, PSN. PSN was slow as hell years and years ago, it was free, but that's all it had going for it. They brought in PS+, it only offered some discounts, betas, and such. It took them 2 years before PS+ was worth anything, which is when IGC came along.
Despite all that, so little is really known about what their actual policies are. So little is known about when they'll be implemented. So little is known about how much support they'll actually give indie devs. It's one thing to toot your own horn, but that has to be backed up by actions. The things they announced are great for an indie dev, but it's still new policy, and it hasn't been realized yet. People think that all these policies are in place now, but they aren't. In the end, it's not really the gamers on forums MS has to convince. They will talk about what they will talk about. It's the indie devs themselves that MS has to convince, and I think that MS turned a lot of them off due to their initial policies, not unlike they turned off many gamers for their initial X1 policies. If MS policies are good for indie devs, then they will get support from indie devs. It's not really that hard to grasp. If they were good now, we would see indie devs now speaking up. They aren't. This is why it's hard to take MS seriously on this. The title doesn't match the quote, no denying that, but just because MS thinks it's the best approach, doesn't mean that indie devs will feel the same way. I'm sure some will come around though. In fact I know some are coming around already. MS will have indie games, they just aren't a focus from what I can tell.
Media loves spin. It's good for hits.
Whats the point of Indies on such powerful consoles anyway. If you look at most indie games a cheap android tablet wouldn't even be pushed with their games
I think Microsoft like to forget things that happened. They already have been pretending like the whole announcement disaster never happened in the first place.
Have they even got any indies announced?
They better buy some of those developers and kiss up to the rest of them after the way they WERE going to handle indies.
Cool can't wait to see Microsoft letting Minecraft Xbox One Edition's profits going 100% to the developer since Microsoft won't be the self proclaimed publisher of it that takes 50% of the profits like the last one on 360. Yeah lets wait and see if that happens.