"Remember how Sony boasted about having excellent pre-order numbers for the PlayStation 4, boasting roughly 1 million pre-orders before launch? Till now, we haven't learnt too much about how the pre-order numbers for the Xbox One are looking like."
I don't understand why people Disagree with you about anything and vote bubble down only because you say that you like the Xbox One. If those guys are watching this comment,Then I must tell you one thing:You are just immature.
Seriously? I know you aren't defending Sony and their proprietary accessories? I can't even charge my damn PSPGO because I misplaced the charger. Then on top of that, UMD? Memory sticks? Memory stick duos? Man the list goes on....stop acting as if Sony is some religion that you worship and they don't practice consumer greed tactics. How else do you think they will get their company back into the positive. Meanwhile Microsofts financial numbers are in the GREEN. You fanboys are hilarious..
The Xbox developer could be right. People have access to the available statistics, from several retailers. However, everyone seems to forget that Microsoft has its own retail stores. Combine the pre-order numbers from MS retail stores with other retailers and the numbers could truly match the PS4 pre-order numbers.
@stuna: What do you mean by "What has that got to do with anything?" No one knows how much pre-orders goes through Microsoft's retail stores. And if we don't know, how can we come up with an accurate number of the overall Xbox One pre-orders?
Yes, Sony has its own online store, but what's your point?
This website is lacking intelligence on the part of several users such as yourself.
Instead of trying to act like you told me something I as well as others don't know try re-reading my comment the way it's written! Everyone knows Microsoft have their own stores, just like everyone knows that Sony has their own stores/online stores! So my questions still remains how is this solely benefiting Microsoft!?
Seems like you're the only one lacking intelligence!
@stuna: Is there something wrong with your thinking process? This is not about the benefits of the stores. Sony has its store, that's true. However, Sony announced its pre-order numbers, Microsoft did not. So at this point folks can only go by the numbers they have for retail outlets such as Amazon etc, but they will not have close to the full numbers unless they know how much pre-orders went through Microsoft's retail stores.
The above is all I'm trying to say, why are you making it so difficult to understand?
To be fair to the developer's comment, he did just say that MS has at least "over 1 million" units. He never really said that they were neck and neck with Sony or that he was privy to Sony's pre-order sales.
A lot of people don't realize that developers actually do have access to those numbers if they are high enough up in the food chain. Publishers certainly know how many consoles are expected to sell by now. It's how they make decisions on which systems to support. If this guy is a MS studio developer, it's unlikely he would know, but it isn't unheard of for developers to talk to one another, and sometimes information gets around. I've been in developer forums, and they talk about stuff sometimes.
"As per this reply, the dev stated, “When I saw reports of Sony having a million or 1.5 million pre-orders for the PS4, I didn’t even think twice about it. We’re not disclosing pre-order numbers at the moment for accounting reasons but I know for a fact we have just as many. Don’t be bogged by published statistics. At the end of all this, what matters is the games you want to play."
This anonymous developer is absolutely right that games are what matters, not sales. Having said that, Microsoft spent the last generation making a big deal out of their sales numbers, so I'm pretty skeptical that they're keeping them confidential this time for "accounting reasons." Yeah, right.
What the heck kind of logic is that? MS is being bashed left and right in the media and in game forms every day. They have been on nothing but the defensive since the XB1 announcement. Don't tell me that if XB1 had "just as many" pre-orders as PS4 that MS would be shouting it from the rooftops... They don't need to give exact numbers (Sony hasn't), but if they were even close, there would be some announcement from Major Nelson or some other MS PR team member.
@n4rc, even well estabilished things may fall. Just in September, the PS3 outsold the 360 in the US in years! One could say, this means nothing, but haven't you noticed that MS' PR machine has been working overtime since?
So right you are, Notice how MS orignilly talked meta scores and sales to the end user, no more meta scores and the recent figured had them claiming shipped.
The " I know for a fact" thing is making me cringe because I hate it when people say "fact" like it makes the argument true no matter how much opinion is used. It is not a fact, it is his opinion with the knowledge he has, which wouldn't include Sony's preorder numbers. The only thing that is known is that as of gamescom ps4 preorders were over 1 million, Microsoft did not give them out. Ms thumped its chest through the first4 years of the current gen, we know them better to believe they would hold back.
Great news for Microsoft if the pre order numbers are true, but the consensus is people saying other wise through word of mouth or online survey in favor of the PS4. So I can't see how they can be even steven unless the consumers are lying.
What I have seen though are people on various sites cancelling their PS4 preorders and going to Xbox One as to them Xbox One has the launch games.
I'm getting both so I don't really care but it is an interesting thing going on. There are people out there that are waiting on the PS4 to get more games before they buy. That will come, but to them, it's a preorder cancel for launch day.
Your reasoning is stupid, you're assuming that PS4 has won every survey thus far because of twelve year olds? What evidence do you have that backs your theory?
How convenient for you. Polls, retailers, reports all mean nothing. Did you say something about 12 year olds? Pot, kettle , black. You are coming across as ludicrous.
All I know is that I was lucky to get a pre-order in for the XBOX One. I had the money saved for awhile and never pre-ordered.
There isnt any PS4 or XB1 available for pre-order...at least every where I looked it was SOLD OUT!!!!
Now being sold out doesnt mean that one has more then the other but it does mean that there is DEMAND for both systems. And that in my book is great!!!
This whole back and forth is pathetic. We are all gamers but this brand loyalty is extreme!!
I believe random internet polls are meaningless as well. Strange, I don't often agree with you.
HOWEVER, when every internet poll tends to come back with the same result it does start to lend credence to what the results are. When additional reports surface about the ratio's between the console pre-orders that back up the results of those polls, it does give those polls more credence. When forums and social media outlets are generally in favor in the same ratios as those polls, it does lend weight to what those polls are saying.
Also, it's a fallacy that every internet poll is set up to allow unlimited voting. Quite a few use IP to limit the number of times you can vote. I know there are crazy people out there, but why would anyone, particularly a 12 year old, sit there masking their IP to vote enough times to change the weight of those polls so drastically?
Lets look at the facts - PS4 is much higher at all online sellers on their most sold list then the xbox one. - many retailers have come out stating that the ps4 sales are significantly higher then xbox one
I believe it. I understand some Xbox fans went and ordered a Ps4 after hearing about the DRM but there's people like me that were just waiting on them to reverse the policies to preorder
80 million this gen aren't just going to all jump ship so easy especially having their Xbox Live buddies
N4G, Neogaf only make up a small number of customers
PS2 had 152+ million users at the end of its life and more than half of them jumped ship. Live doesn't mean anything. Each new console generation is a clean slate.
Roughly half jumped shipped over the lifetime of the console, and there was nothing tying them to the same console brand previously, unless you think BC is important.
This generation, people value their account and friends. The connected gamer is what gave MS a huge edge, and I expect that same player base doesn't have an issue with the DRM and only care about playing online.
So no, each new generation is no longer a clean state when you are invested!
In addition, online is where MS has their cloud for dedicated servers and gamers will know this as evident by even first party games for Sony going P2P.
MS is also far more likely to capture Wii market as well.
So they might loose some here, and gain some there.
Let's find out next year, when supply isn't constrained!
Yes, every generation is a clean slate. The beginning of this one is proof of that. No one cared about their Live accounts when Microsoft tried their restrictive DRM and always-online connection. No one cared about cloud power, or Kinect, or any of that B.S. and they still don't. It's about value for the money, and the Nintendo Wii proved that affordability always wins out initially.
"In addition, online is where MS has their cloud for dedicated servers and gamers will know this as evident by even first party games for Sony going P2P."
Put the pamphlet away and read some actual facts. No Sony first party game is going P2P. The very idea that the PS3 had more dedicated servers than the Xbox 360, and yet somehow the PS4 is going P2P is absolutely ludicrous. I wouldn't expect you to understand, given your paycheck, but the links are out there for you to read instead of taking Gozer's word for it.
MS won't capture the Wii market. The Wii market has moved away from consoles. They are fickle and are now into mobile phone gaming, not Kinect. And if you enjoy the idea of Microsoft dropping off support for core games as they go for the Wii market, then you have low standards and are the reason Microsoft can get away with all the anti-consumer, anti-gamer practices their hearts desire.
@nukeitall If you think that the Wii market is going to drop 500 dollars for features they can get on a smart T.V....I don't even know what to say to you.
Dragonknight is the perfect example of whats wrong with this site. People should be bubbled down for spreading misinformation.
"Put the pamphlet away and read some actual facts. No Sony first party game is going P2P. The very idea that the PS3 had more dedicated servers than the Xbox 360, and yet somehow the PS4 is going P2P is absolutely ludicrous. I wouldn't expect you to understand, given your paycheck, but the links are out there for you to read instead of taking Gozer's word for it."
Either you are gullible, or you know that you are lying, but KZ 4 will be P2P. You were suckered by that crap Sony put out a while back. KZ 2 and 3 were also P2P. Are Sony gamers really this misinformed?
See that? An actual article. What does the title say? "Killzone: Shadow Fall boasts dedicated servers."
Oh damn, did I just shove fact in your face? Yeah, yeah I did. Oh but wait, there's more.
"DragonKnight, did you even read the story? It says 'Killzone Shadow Fall has dedicated servers hosted in various regions around the world. These servers do not run the logic of the game' therefore it's P2P."
"This means that people with slower Internet connections will have a better (keyword “better”) time playing the game than if matches were player-hosted."
Oh look at that, the matches AREN'T player hosted? Bu..bu..but that's what P2P is. So... if the matches aren't player hosted, how can it be P2P?
Yeah, you can shut up now. You just signed up to defend Xbox fanboyism? Way to be productive bud. It's more likely you are an Xbox fanboy whose account was bubbled down to 1, and since Xbox fanboys care so much about bubbles you had to make a new account using a proxy.
Feel free to continue with your efforts. But remember, bubbles aren't important.
Reading between the lines, i.e. making bullsh*t up. The trademark of an Xbox fanboy.
KZ:SF has no player hosting. By definition that means it's NOT P2P. Feel free to ignore basic facts all you want to, but the fact that you're using language like "suckered" and "read between the lines" in the face of verbatim quotes from the developers themselves just proves that you're an Xbox fanboy desperately looking for something to make the PS4 look bad because the Xbox One has been hammered for so long.
And on top of it all, you're trying to censor me by appealing to the mods when nothing I've said goes against commenting rules, you just don't like what I have to say and you're going to attempt to "tell on me" to shut me up. Feel free to, but you'll get nowhere. The mods have better things to do than to cater to crying dupe accounts looking to steer the site in the direction of a particular brand.
wow, did the mods really just ban me because Im exposing the lies that are being spread about KZs servers?
You are quite angry Dragon.
Dragon, do you even know what a dedicated server is? You obviously dont. You have NO CLUE!
" However, the servers will only act as a hub between different game clients and any game logic will not be hosted on the servers"
Can you understand that statement? That came from GG.
This quote also came from them
"with only a very small portion of the game logic (i.e. mission/scoring logic) running on the ‘session master’, one PS4 in the game selected for its connection quality.
There you have it, straight from Boltjes mouth. KZ SF is really P2p.
Why is it only N4G users that think they are getting dedis? This is quite amusing. That link you posted from destructiod, go read the user comments, they all seem to understand its P2P but for some reason N4G doesnt.
Why are you scoffing at me for appealing to the mods to clean this site up? If people are posting blatant lies they should be bubbled down!
Shadow fail will have a proxy system to tunnel through NATs, what it will not have is dedicated servers.
In all the articles you listed they described a match making system and proxy system. But the actual game host will still be on a PS4 somewhere, and when that player quits you will still have to do host migration.... People will still be able to use lag switches. You still have the problem of your game being hosted on a home ISP, rather than in a data center somewhere.
You have failed DragonKnight, you are an utter failure, on this topic.
@The dupe accounts saying the same thing and B1663r: Let's say for the sake of argument that anyone thought you were right, you're not (no player hosting means not P2P), but let's say you were. Is Killzone the only Sony first party game coming out? Oh it's not? Oh but you know for certain that every PS4 game is going to be P2P now right? Oh you don't? So why are you trying to spread the FUD that they will be?
The headline does not match the article. It says right in the article that KillZone Shadow Fail will be on 100% player hosted servers. Only matchmaking and proxy stuff exists on servers.
You couldn't be more wrong. There are no dedicated servers for Killzone Shadowfall. It's a glorified P2P system without any centralized server to properly coordinate XYZ and bullet trajectory.
From the Developer:
"Killzone Shadow Fall has dedicated servers hosted in various regions around the world. These servers do not run the logic of the game – they only act as a hub between the clients, forwarding network traffic from one player in game to all other players in game. This allows people with a slower connection or strict firewall settings to play without issues. Almost all logic relating to you (e.g. moving, shooting and taking damage) runs on your local PS4, with only a very small portion of the game logic (i.e. mission/scoring logic) running on the ‘session master’, one PS4 in the game selected for its connection quality."
""Killzone Shadow Fall has dedicated servers hosted in various regions around the world. These servers do not run the logic of the game – they only act as a hub between the clients, forwarding network traffic from one player in game to all other players in game. This allows people with a slower connection or strict firewall settings to play without issues.""
The "dedicated" server isn't their to process logic in game, so it's main goal is to forward traffic i.e. proxy server. KZ Shadowfall is still P2P with an extra hop to another computer just like how there are multiple hops on many computers before it reaches the next peer.
You can call it dedicated server if you want, but it ain't going to prevent the usual problems with P2P, which is cheaters, lagging and so on.
""Almost all logic relating to you (e.g. moving, shooting and taking damage) runs on your local PS4, with only a very small portion of the game logic (i.e. mission/scoring logic) running on the ‘session master’, one PS4 in the game selected for its connection quality.""
Take note of the last sentence straight from your very own source!
Session master on ONE PS4 based on CONNECTION QUALITY!!!
Wouldn't have to worry about it, if it was *real* dedicated server as per the definition of a gamer, not a computer scientist!
This is just Sony's marketing muscle at it, by hiding and misinforming their customers.
Xbox 360 > PS3 Xbox One < PS4 (I my opinion.) Brand loyalty is for morons who are unable to think for themselves. Gamers will get whatever platform is best for games (In my opinion, PS4, in others it could be Xbone.)
It comes to the games, a console cant do shit without games, idk why people always scream their opinions XBO>PS4 or PS4>XBO or N64>PS1 or XBOX>PS2, to all of those people like that, stick a sock in you mouth, games is what make it or break it.
Not just speaking of brand loyalty but the Xbox Live experience and other things I like about Xbox that I won't bother mentioning because I respect opinions and not trying to start a flame war lol
In my opinion, after a full generation, Xbox 360 and PS3 are pretty much equal. They're both good for different things. PS3 has a certain type of game on it and 360 has a certain type of game on it, then you have the multiplats on both.
This gen will likely work out the same, but we really won't know for several years to come.
Things like XBL/ PSN profiles (trophies, friends list, etc.) only affect the decisions of about 20% of people who buy these consoles. The other 80% are either flat out casuals or people just looking for the next system to play their favorite FPS/ sports titles on. What affects their decision is pretty much price, and PS4 has that one (except in Brazil, wtf...). M$'s only strong market is the US, and brand loyalty is virtually nonexistent here. People will buy what's cheaper. Only a few will actually care about losing their XBL profiles.
Where the hell are you getting your made up statistics from? I'd say more and more people are interested in keeping their friends list/etc now more than ever, you can't compare PS2 and people jumping ship to other consoles when the 360 came out because there was no eco-system, no community to tie people in. Now there is, and a lot of people enjoy it regardless.
And lack of brand loyalty in the US? Tell that to the millions of iPhones sold every year, and then that are later upgraded a year or 2 later.
If I look at the people I know who own a 360 and pa3 only a few have said they are going to get a Xbox one or pa4 on the next 12 to 18 months as the games they like are still on the 360 and pa3 as they wanted games like gta5, cod ghosts, bf4, FIFA 14 etc.
I dint think the pre orders on both consoles and sales of both consoles in the 1st 18 months will be a high as people on here think.
Look at the psv, 3ds and wiiu none of them have hit the ground running it was only 12 months in the 3ds sales picked up. The psv is still having issues even though on here when the psv was announced it was going to walk all over the 3ds. The wiiu is now only starting to show signs of improving sales after so big name games.
I don't think anyone can really say which console will sell the most over the next 5 years as no one really knows its up to Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo to create the console and game advertisements to generate the sales.
Well pre-orders don't mean anything anyways to be honest, pre-orders aren't SOLD numbers, so I don't know why people get in a big huff about them, I know a lot of people who pre-ordered both consoles and waited out to see more features and games and then cancelled the ones they weren't interested in.
PS Vita is a handheld coming into the market at a bad time. Nintendo dominates the handheld market. The PS Vita needed to show why it is necessary to have it but it failed. Now, with the PS4, we can see what Sony was planning with the PS Vita. We just couldn't see it with the PS3. The 3DS offers absolutely nothing new other than 3D which any people didn't care for. There is no real separation between the 3DS and the DSi. That is why both of these units did not sell well at the jump. The Wii U just had a shitty reveal and PR team. MS should have learned from Nintendo's mistakes. People, casual gamers, the ones who made the Wii so successful didn't know the Wii U was a separate console. They thought it was a new controller for the Wii. Also, the stock in stores was horrible. They sold out, yeah, but they gave stores minimal stock and didn't replace it for weeks on end. So, if the people can't see it they won't buy it.
I remember when the 360 launched. I had ZERO interest in getting it. I was happy with my xbox/PS2. There was still good games coming out for both systems.
Fast Forward.....I can honestly say Im ready for new systems...it has been a long 8 years. GTA5 just releasing is keeping me playing current gen. But there is nothing else out I want.
BUT I do want to play BF4 on next gen....64 players is very appealing to me!! So this will be my first Launch system. And I am VERY excited!!!
Just how I waited last gen you will have allot waiting to make that move. We are what is called first adopters. I wonder if the long 8 year gap will have or is having more people going next gen instead of waiting?
Not even surprised. Xbox One : Day One :)
"As per this reply, the dev stated, “When I saw reports of Sony having a million or 1.5 million pre-orders for the PS4, I didn’t even think twice about it. We’re not disclosing pre-order numbers at the moment for accounting reasons but I know for a fact we have just as many. Don’t be bogged by published statistics. At the end of all this, what matters is the games you want to play."
This anonymous developer is absolutely right that games are what matters, not sales. Having said that, Microsoft spent the last generation making a big deal out of their sales numbers, so I'm pretty skeptical that they're keeping them confidential this time for "accounting reasons." Yeah, right.
Great news for Microsoft if the pre order numbers are true, but the consensus is people saying other wise through word of mouth or online survey in favor of the PS4. So I can't see how they can be even steven unless the consumers are lying.
yeaaaah i call this 100% bull