An original interview with Xbox Live Compute product manager John Bruno about why gamers should care about the cloud.
I simply refuse to buy this cloud nonsense, people who are expecting games to look or perform noticebly better thanks to the cloud are in for a rude awakening.
They should show the Cloud working, you know, talk the talk?
@ heavy exactly its all good to talk and show pretty graphs but we need to see it working in the context of how they are advertising this.i am not one to be closed minded but i like to see some proof and advantages of what the tech "can do" "not will do (in theory)"
I'm going to assume you meant to say "walk the walk". As "talking the talk" clearly doesn't cut it for you. http://tech2.in.com/news/co... http://www.oxm.co.uk/61393/... Anyways, Heavy, nobody expects you to actually believe anything positive about the Xbox One. It's just a ridiculous notion.
@Malokevi You give Xbox fans a really bad reputation, but hey, at least you try to provide some facts. Let me burst your bubble though. the first link you provided has little to do with gaming, unless there is a game where you have to monitor asteroids and stuff, nowhere there is the cloud shown working. The second link is for your Drivatar to "learn how to drive" when you are not playing the game. I don't know about you, but I would feel kind of silly by getting XP points and stuff for not playing, but again, it has nothing to do with IN GAME improvements, just a lot of talking about what it could do
uhhh huhhhh...... #1: hundreds of thousands of calculations done remotely. Doesn't matter how you slice it. Videogames are a plethora of calculations. This merely demonstrated the ability of the cloud to do calculations in real time. If you don't think that applies to gaming... well... your trying too hard. It's a tech demo. It's exactly what you were after, a concrete demonstration of the capabilities of the cloud. Suddenly thats not enough? Not only do you want a demonstration, but it has to be directly relevent to a particular game/genre? "reputation" lol. Not what I'm after. Seems like that's all you care about, though. You are so consistently cynical when it comes to XB1, that it's impossible for me to take anything you say seriously. It's clear to me that you have an agenda, as you almost always get first post in Xbox articles, and you never have anything positive to say. Wouldn't surprise me if you were getting payed straight out of Sony's coffers. If I was to appraise the XB1 based on your testimony alone, I would think that it wasn't a console, but rather a demon spawn risen from the pits of hell to reek havoc on all that is good and true on this earth. Luckily I have long since come to recognize that everything you say about the Xbox One is laden with utter BS, and I can usually count on the opposite of your "opinions" being closer to the truth. So, at least you serve some useful function, which I am grateful for! Keep at it, one day you will convince whoever it is your trying to convince (yourself?) Meanwhile I'll be playing my Xbox One and my PS4, enjoying everything that both consoles have to offer. Because they do. both. have. something. to. offer. yayyy! :) As for Forza, Turn 10 has stated how the cloud is being used for advanced AI. Respawn has explained how ample dedicated servers and remote physics/AI processing are good for them. That's not good enough for you? Fine by me. Pigeon-hole yourself as much as you want.
Do you have any idea what kind of resources NASA has to be able to do what they did? Do you think anybody else is going to be able to do the same at their house? Don't you remember the first Kinect tech demo and how the end result was completely different? You think I'm getting paid by Sony to tell facts? OPEN YOUR EYES dude. You are still talking about Forza and what the devs say it can do, you don't seem to understand that I'd like to see it in action. PS: Now that you mention if there is any Sony PR people hidden here, send me a PM, I'd love to get paid to burst Malokevi's bubble /s PS2: You are getting a PS4? yeah, sure, why don't you share your PSN id and we play some matches together?
"you don't seem to understand that I'd like to see it in action. " So go grab an XB1 and check it out. OH WAIT, IT ISN'T OUT YET! Well then, I guess your just gonna have to settle for being a negative ninny. Bummer, bro. lol. Yeah, I'm getting a PS4. Key word: getting. I have nothing to share with you. Another thing that isn't out yet: PS4. Shocking, right? And, when I do pick my PSN ID, I sure won't be gaming with people like you. Not willingly, at least. "Do you think anybody else is going to be able to do the same at their house?" Why would anyone need to simulate the solar system at their house? The idea of the cloud is that you don't have to run it at your house... lol. I thought that was evident. "facts"? point to a "fact"... have a cookie! Disclaimer: Facts are true. Not something you believe and desperately want to be true. Putting your hands over your ears, closing your eyes and screaming "NO NO NO NO NO NO!" isn't really a fact either, btw. It's just something you do. Often.
Right, because there is no way to see a feature in action until the console launches, you keep making more sense every time you open your mouth. You are so upset that you make no sense, if you did a little research, you would find out that online speed is nowhere near to the point where it would help improve graphics and stuff. Dude, I feel your pain, just stop trying so hard. Or like Xbox people say, #DealWithIt. Keep living on promises, just like when the first Kinect was going to be a revolution for gaming, now it's the Cloud, then it will be something else, and you'll eat it
"Right, because there is no way to see a feature in action until the console launches, you keep making more sense every time you open your mouth. " Explain to me, outside of the tech demos and the explanations, how something like "cloud processing" could be demonstrated to your satisfaction without you actually being able to experience it? How? Hmm? Because these things happen behind the scenes. It's not like you can watch data packets moving off/on the servers as the games are being played? What exactly do you expect? Why don't you just go ahead and admit that your an Xbox detractor, a cynic, and a generally depressing guy? That would save you a lot of time on the keyboard. Nobody cares to satiate your impossibly high standards for proof. You don't believe that these things are possible? Fantastic. Wonderful. Now take your miserable attitude and sod off, would ya? Your needless senseless fruitless and ultimately futile pessimism aside, there are those of us who choose to take a stance of cautious optimism regarding the next-generation of consoles and the sort of novel features that they support. Turn 10, Respawn, NASA, MS, Insomniac... have all come out and spoken about the cloud as something that enables them to fulfill there creative visions. And then there's you... all sad and depressed because the one and only console that you think is worth anybody's time doesn't have even close tot he infrastructure to support the sort of things that Microsoft and its many development teams are talking about excitedly. I'm excited. You're a Debbie downer. Thanks be I haven't limited myself to one console, I will enjoy everything that this generation has to offer. People like you, who endlessly troll Xbox articles with nothing but negative things to say... I feel sorry for. Life isn't so bad. Nobody is going to take your PS4 away from you if you take a breath to stop talking down the alternatives. There's really no good reason to be such a downer.
I'm sure they would be capable to make a video showing how the cloud improves graphics, if that's what they preach. I'm not asking for much, just proof instead of talking, sorry for not being a believer. If Sony was talking about their cloud and how it would make the PS4 graphics look better, I would demand the same from them. I guess a video demo is too much of a difficulty for them to do... SMH What pisses me off though is that you talk like you never go into PS articles to troll, but there is a big difference between your comments and my "trolling", at least I can provide facts. What do you do? You only make sarcastic comments http://n4g.com/news/1373769... Or you try to be funny involving my mother (very mature BTW) http://n4g.com/news/1373983... At least I don't go through Xbox news just saying "HA, Xbox sucks bad", you? Keep your not-so-stealthy trolls attempts going
malokevi bro you're waisting your time with Heavy he has a unhealthy vendetta against Microsoft so he will always downplay anything positive about X1 due to his own insecurity. All his posts like most fanboys who systematically follow what they claim to hate screams of desperation to justify their own purchase....envy has been call a bitter emotion for a reason. Microsoft has been planning, investing, and so far has actually taken the first steps to implement cloud computing into games like Forza 5. I dont know if the cloud will ever offer super duper high end pc graphics blah, blah, blah but clearly it has some huge potential for offloading computational gaming aspects that before were confined to local hardware which means when done properly it can IMPROVE OUR GAMES that 1 fact in itself is worth my support in their efforts. Im telling folks can say whatever they want about micros initial plans and I for one definitely think their messaging was f-up but without a doubt they are doing some great things for gaming this gen with some refreshingly unique ideas. I mean I understand if you disagree thinking its just BS but I dont understand why the rest of us who are interested are hated because we'd like to see whats possible.
Oh, look who it is, the Xbox defense general. To think that all this started just because I wanted to see the cloud working. Good for you if you are believers, I'd rather do some questioning before I'm sold on something
Oh Heavy, Clearly there is far more proof the cloud at work than how awesome the PS4 is and how much needed the GDDR5 is, but you don't question that! It is proven that PSN has been hacked, so do you question if PSN is secure? Has anyone shown proof of that? Yet, you blindly believe them, uh? I wonder why?
I doubt it will do much for visuals, but it's a fact that they can improve performance in online games. Anyone who games on pc could tell you this. A typical online ps3 or 360 game would have 10% more cpu for the game if they didn't have to reserve compute for host duties on a p2p game. In a cloud campaign scenario (like destiny, titan fall, or gta online), cloud compute would mean more cpu savings because the AI, wouldn't have to be processed locally. Those cpu saving could go along way to improving frame rate, so there are some graphical benefits. So there are some clear benefits that shouldn't be ignored. (I'm sure I'll get some unexplained disagrees)
Sounds like you're describing dedicated servers not cloud computing.
Also let's not forget those poor souls with little or no internet who will be playing half a game thanks to the 'miracle' of the cloud.
You can't use cloud for immediate things like enemy AI, physics that impact the player directly and need to be calculated on the fly, dynamic lighting and such things because of latency. What can be done is stuff like NPCs running around somewhere in the world as long as they don't interact directly with the player. All in all cloud is just a fancy word for dedicated servers.
Every little bit helps. Some people refuse to admit that. To them, its black/white, cut/dry, all/nothing. Of course the cloud can't offer practical benefits... that's just SILLY!
@orangepowerz There is absolutely no reason the cloud can't be used for enemy AI. It's no different than using the internet for a multiplayer game. How is relaying the decision of your multiplayer opponent over the internet any different than relaying the decision of an ai opponent? Better yet, how is it not better than first processing these decisions on one local machine, then broadcasting it to everyone else, who then had to process it again? This exactly how the ai (enemy and friendly) is being handled in titan fall, so it's proven to work. @galacticempire there is no cloud computing without dedicated servers. Dedicated servers, handle the network computations. And no one is missing out on half the game, if the game is designed to be played online... like the games i specifically mentioned.
That`s not the same, the data packages for the actions you perform and the actions other people perform are very small and we talk about MP only in that case. This doesn`t need Azure, every MMO is doing that stuff and current gen games do that because in Online games AI is never processed locally because having as example 20 players that calculate AI locally and have the server try to sync that up would end in a big mess and AI in that case is always calculated on the server to ensure it`s the same behavior for every player and that everybody is in sync. I`m talking about ways to free up resources that are not being done already since many years for singleplayer games because MP games do that stuff on every platform since ages.
I think it's a fantastic way to extend/somewhat future proof this console cycles lifespan, Sony are no doubt looking to do the same thing... Anyone who thinks it isn't possible, please explain why... it's not black magic,it's very much achievable.
Cloud computing can be done to some extend, but not on a large scale due to the latency. As example you could do the AI for NPCs that run around somewhere in the world as long as you don't interact with them. What you can't do is doing the AI for enemies in a shooter because they need to react to the player immediately and the latency would prevent that. Same example can be applied to other things. So you can offload calculations to the cloud that run in the background and don't need to be done immediate so the latency wouldn't cause problems. The thibgis most of these calculations are less calculation heavy and wwouldn't free up a huge amount of ressources. Also if you don't have internet or slow internet the game wouldn't work at all or it wouldn't be as good. The internet infrastructure and hardware isn't good enough yet and won't be good enough for cloud computing to do what MS wants it to do. Nvidia had a demo running for graphics calculated via cloud where they had to use a server on LAN with the result of very average framerate.
do you all ask for proof with every new piece of technology concept announced? Right then and there? I didn't think so. If Ford says they have new technology that allows their 2016 car models to drive by themselves, you gonna need proof before you can even listen and believe it? People acting like Microsoft is speaking about magic and the spirit world. Next time new technology gets announced and the company tells you what it can do, don't believe it.
When it's advertised as something that can work right now, then yes we ask for proof. MS have been advertising this since the reveal as something magical and have done literally nothing to show that it works. Not even a tech demo that didn't use gpus to work and nVidia did that.
Yes of course I'd want proof, BTW I have a bridge to sell you.
MS have the buden of proof here and so far they have all the reason in the world to lie and nothing to back up their claims.
Evidence is crucial in establishing facts.
I don't think MS would lie about this, it probably can be done and they most likely can get it done. I am just interested in the details and to see it working in some way. It would actually be good for the future of gaming to not have to rely completely on hardware all the time.
It is the other way around, people who dismiss Cloud are going to be in for a rude awakening. Microsoft are releasing a lot of good information closer to launch. Looks like dedicated servers have been confirmed free. @DragonKnight I can't wait to play lag free multiplayer on my Xbox One while you are being kicked every few games because the host leaves, have fun. @GalacticEmpire Right on the article that we are commenting on. 'Oh, and one other small thing: Xbox Live Compute is free.' 'It’s pretty clear that a free cloud solution for dedicated servers and other cloud features is a pretty neat bonus for developers.'
Dedicated servers? TEH INOVASHUN!!! That's NEVER happened before!!!
"Looks like dedicated servers have been confirmed free."
That's cool if true, can you provide a link to that claim?
@Palaven, that isn't proof that dedicated servers are free for all games. In fact didn't the titalfall devs already confirm that they are paying for it.
@Empire I didn't know you knew everything that's goin on at MS studios. But you ultimately don't care about MS so why you here? In fact why are Sony fans ALWAYS here? Bruno says that the real idea for Xbox Cloud was to provide all of the online infrastructure to support things like dedicated servers for multiplayer so that studios can just focus on making the games. Read more at http://venturebeat.com/2013... It sounds like MS will provide the online tools. While Devs can focus most of there attention on the core game at hand. Sounds neat.
I call out BS when I see (smell) it, that's why I'm here.
Ok then send me links debunking cloud and exposing its fakeness. Don't send me theories of what somebody else wrote, no that's garbage I want cold hard facts of this entire article being fake. If you can't provide me with anything then your just like any other Sony nut job around here. Just your everyday run of the mill hateful sheep of a fanboy. I wanna see if they can pull this off I'm cautiously optimistic to see what they can do with this whole cloud stuff. But I wanna see these facts of this being fake so go ahead and prove this entire article wrong, I'm waiting.
The burden of proof lies with the party making the claim. You can't claim something exists because others can't prove it doesn't.
@Galactic Proof Titanfall and COD supported DS. Apparently MS has a name for its cloud infrastructure. http://news.xbox.com/2013/1... http://www.gottabemobile.co... Every Xbox game will benefit Cloud. http://n4g.com/news/1374226... Proof and facts something you are uncapable of doing. Your fanboyism isn't allowing to see proof and facts. To be fair the cloud to improve game elements like AI, cloth, lighting and and apparently "graphics" all remains to be seen. And I wanna see some sort of demonstration just as bad as you do trust me. But MS doesn't work on our time. But lucky for us MS clock is ticking and they yet have something to show for it. I win @Galactic You gave me nothing stating its fake so I win this one EASILY. And what's sad is there's FACTS all over the net and sources, how blind can a person be. Lol damn Hey don't be a fanboy, and maybe your rationalism and logic may improve.
It won't. It's PR hogwash and everyone except die hard Xbox One fans know it.
You ever get tired of trolling every xbox article? Guess not.
Trolling? That implies that my statement is false which means you have proof to the contrary. I'll be waiting for it. Do you ever tire of being an MS whipping boy? Guess not.
No Dragonknight, you come into every X1 story and have some smart ass remark to say. I don't know why you are getting a free pass to do this, but you are certainly a troll. You don't see me trolling PS4 articles. Its not hard to do, just stay on your side of the fanboy fence.
Sigh. Playing a PS4 for 200 hours turns your hair purple. Show me proof this is false, or I'm right. Can you see how that logic is flawed?
@Gozer: "You don't see me trolling PS4 articles." Oh really? Well let's just see about that. http://n4g.com/news/1374014... Hmmm, looks like a PS4 article. Also looks like you're trolling because the PS4 has more indie games than the Xbox One. But nah, you're going to say that you have "legitimate opinion" about it and weren't trolling right? Yeah I'm sure everyone believes you though. And since when is stating a fact about Cloud Power trolling? If you have proof that what's being said is true, then show it to us. @Volkama: The difference between our statements is that mine is not only plausible, it's backed by analysis of cloud computing and Microsoft's track record of promises made that don't work out the way they said. Kinect 1 for example. Your example is a ridiculous one with absolutely no basis in fact, analysis, or history. Care to try again? It's so sad at how gullible Microsoft has made so many gamers.
Microsoft have invested in some pretty expensive PR hogwash then. @DragonKnight Since when was Kinect a failure? Microsoft have had a massive return from Kinect.
They always have. $500 million Kinect 1 ad campaign.
^^ 25 million kinects $100-$150 that's almost roughly Close to $4 billion dollars in return. So that 500 million is An investment well spent
"Since when was Kinect a failure? Microsoft have had a massive return from Kinect" Ummm, where did I say that? Microsoft made a lot off Kinect, but Kinect hasn't done anything Microsoft promised it was going to do. PR hogwash that they spent $500 million dollars on. Based on Microsoft's track record, they spend a lot of money saying stuff, and in the end it doesn't work out the way they said it would. So... what's your problem? That's exactly what I said. Did I say anywhere that the Kinect was a failure? Feel free to copy and paste that for me if I did.
Sit down knight your a fanboy. Your here in every X1 article known to man talking it down calling PR on something you absolutely know nothing about and apparently you Sony fans are fortune tellers. According to you and your fanbase anyone who gets little excited about what MS is offering there trolls and sippin MS's Kool-aid and "give into PR". @Dragon Your not buying the X1 so what's it to you. You clearly don't like the console so why sweat over something your don't care about? Why? Your fanbase is a sad, sad bunch. Always causing problems everyday for no damn reason.
Please. The Xbox One fanboys are getting excited over magic, rocket science, and dreams. The rest of us are telling MS to put up or shut up. For the amount of time they've been promoting this garbage they haven't shown one prototype or tech demonstration to prove what they're saying and yet here you are, getting all wet in the pants for tech promises. Like I said, it's sad how gullible MS fanboys are.
I would like to see this in action please.
100% agreed. I'm not knocking that cloud compute is possible, it is possible I see a lot of people throwing out links in defense to other companies doing this, but they aren't Microsoft and I want to see them specifically show how the cloud computing technique can significantly increase graphics and game performance and what they're going to do in regards to people who may not have decent connections to support this always online feature, do they get the bog standard version of the game or something? Not to mention this is a feature set to come about some where down the line in the console's life cycle(could be years?), it's hardly a feature to tout when it's not offered day one...and even if it is by chance not everyone will be able to utilise it.
All I ask is that you show me something..please stop telling me how it works..I get it, I understand...I just want to see it in action.
With the way tech is rapidly evolving, including the way we build and connect to consoles, this xbox potentially has less of a chance to last as long as 360. Will it happen? We cant say for sure. But one thing is for certain. This generation of the console market will not operate like any previous generation.
as the comments above state it would be nice to see a demo of this to believe it. look at Illumroom, they brought out a demo video the very day they announced it, why can't they do the same for cloud + X1? idk just show us something Microsoft the Romans didn't talk about building Rome they went out and did it.
No company has to prove everything they announce, Sony has yet to prove their game streaming service to us, why does MS have to prove everything they announce so all the nuts will believe them. We will see it when it is implemented, if it sucks then, they will be called on it.
what is there to prove? Gaikai worked before Sony, it will (at the very least) work just as it did with Sony. on the flipside, cloud computing in video gaming is uncharted territory, it has never been attempted and so, if Microsoft want to sell the idea to us they have to show us something that will back up the what they're trying to sell, especially since real world application of the tech is far off into the future. I disagree with your comment because never in my life have I seen a company announce a new, innovative product (that's gone on to be successful) then have absolutely nothing to back up their claims of what the product will bring. your point would be valid if Microsoft weren't touting up their cloud technology on an almost daily basis.
Y'all don't believe MS when they say their cloud will benefit the X1, but you want me to believe that the PS4 doesn't have overheating issues and the red line of death? Whatever
Damn son, your bubble icon should be replaced by a single salt crystal. One salty comment in each article to add that seasoning.
I don't get why this is so hard for people to believe, its already being done in the cable TV industry, I believe U-Verse uses it, they stream the HD content efficiently even in low bandwidth situations by updating only the parts of the picture that is moving or changing, the rest is just recycled so to speak. It allows high def, over low bandwidth, with less cache needed. @Leopard: Youtube does not use the technique I discussed above, in fact I believe not sure but I think its Microsoft technology, Microsoft was behind the software that runs on U-Verse set top boxes, not sure if they also developed the streaming technology.
To view 1080p video at youtube you need a decent connection (10Mb), for cloud computing the user would need almost 50Mb. However is a good concept.
Lol read the article they just explained how they 'd use it. GPU compute through the cloud has latency. So doing graphics in the cloud is not what they are looking into at the moment. Depends on internet speeds in the future... Internet providers speeds increase over time. "FACT" What xbox live compute can do "RighT NOW" is do CPU compute through the cloud as latency is not a issue to the system. This will free up sources on the xbox one allowing it to use more power for in house operations. "FACT" Its just plain common sense to understand this logic.....
You can do many things in the cloud including including CPU processes, collect data, dedicate servers, AND IMPROVE GRAPHICS. Latency is not an issue with a modern cable connection and as we head into the future this will only improve. Sony fanboys can deny this and make jokes all they want but Sony is looking into this future and will follow suit just like they will with the innovations kinect will make
You guys are mental and more than a little dumb. In what universe do you believe Cloud Compute can compare to GPU Compute on local hardware? It's like talking to Scientology nuts.
Why don't they use it for 360 if it's so great. I've fallen for MS marketing gimmicks and empty promises before. Not again. MS is always saying some tech it has can do so and so then never delivers.
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