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Xbox One Less Powerful than Even Microsoft Thought? Ryse Obviously Ran on PC at E3

Apparently Xbox One is less powerful than what even Microsoft thought! Not only the recent surge of downgrades show Xbox One's real power but it also proves beyond a shadow of doubt that Ryse ran on a PC at E3.

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ape0071423d ago

it might be a downgrade or a "re balance" as the developer said

but i don't know if he says the truth or simply damage controlling

anyways, 85K polygons is still freakin phenomenal

xharrypotterx1423d ago

Triangles not Polys. 85k tri would be around 21k Polys. Not Impressive.... now 150k Triangles....

DamntaionEternal1423d ago

Yea exactly. No only did they cut the Wow factor by half, they downgraded from 1080p to 900p

ape0071423d ago

in engineering, a triangle is a polygon

SephirothX211423d ago

In DirectX 11, all polygons are triangles so yes each model has 85k polys. Voxels are not supported. I know this because I'm writing a game engine using DirectX 11.

a08andan1423d ago (Edited 1423d ago )

A polygon is a figure that has 3 corners or more. Poly stands for multiple and gon, I guess that stands for corners. So technically you can say triangles and polygons to describe the same thing, however a triangle is the smallest possible polygon.

Edit: A circle isn't really round. Its just a polygon with an practically infinite numbers of corners. So that would be the "largest" polygon possible.

LolololRumz1423d ago

85k tris is 42k polys
A tri is 3 sides and a poly is generally 4 sides however some people class tris as apart of the poly count.

The character can still look as good as before depending on how well the textures/normal maps are, but still for this generation I'd expect a little more on main characters

Winter47th1423d ago

a console that will last 10 years my ass developers already downscaling their games.

ChrisW1423d ago

Are we taking some Tweet from a guy in Pakistan seriously?!?

annus1423d ago

How are you people getting these numbers? That's not how meshes work. A triangle is a polygon.

What is the poly count of a single triangle in a 3D world? The answer is one. If you said some stupid number like 1/2 or 1/4th or anything else other than one you need to stop giving advice.

A polygon by definition is something that consists of three or more edges, whatever your high school teacher taught you is wrong.

From a rendering point of view you cannot turn two triangles into a single four sided polygon if they bend different ways.

Go read this and get educated before you start spouting your bullshit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Eonjay1423d ago

I don't think Microsoft was ready for E3 at all. Obviously the games were on PC. Its funny how Digital Foundry did a report afterwards and came to the conclusion that everything was running at 1080p and solid 60FPS. This is a bit deceiving. They could have saved alot of face by presenting their games at spec. That way they wouldn't look so bad in retrospect.

Honestly, I think they always knew what they could do with the hardware THEY built, but they didn't want to look bad compared to the competition.

BallsEye1423d ago

Traingles = polygons. Now with that being said. If you would read cryteks statement, they did it so they can further improve other effects such as shadows. It's a tradeoff. Also you will see 0 difference in downgraded model, it's still highest poly model for a character made in game, and as other slides state, NPC's also are made same way.

Now here is an interesting pic, showing how much difference you will see.

http://www.cgexplorer.com/_...

Right model has HALF LESS verticles and it looks EXACTLY the same. Yey for normal maps. Now stop being so dramatic people, most of you have no idea how these things work, you just read numbers and think you are so smart.

Freedomland1423d ago (Edited 1422d ago )

Actually problem is not polycount but the problem is, why they did it in the first place like they showed titles using highend pc with nvidia cards, why? what's the catch?

Ryse has been in development for nearly 2 to 3 years now, why suddenly this move now just before the launch.

Why Microsoft a software giant couldn't able to fix the drivers or it's just an excuse.

Think and decide yourself.

NatureOfLogic1423d ago

Rushed console ftl. They must have really fear Sony getting a headstart. I don't think MS is ready to release. They did survive a faulty Xbox 360 launch, so I don't think they're concerned at all. Xbox One buyers beware.

MysticStrummer1422d ago

@BallsEye - "Traingles = polygons"

Yes and no. They're sort of the same thing, and one can be converted to the other, but the numbers aren't equivalent. Triangles are the smallest polygons, so triangle count is always higher than polygon count.

annus1422d ago

You can't directly convert triangles to 'squares' though. A four sided polygon cannot curve, where as two tris can go separate ways.

Most modelling and game engines convert everything to tris anyway, so when Killzone devs talk polys they may very well be talking the same polys as Ryse devs.

NoLongerHereCBA1422d ago

My friend, you are wrong on so many levels... It amazes me that you get more agrees than disagrees. People here are really pathetic.

85k polygons are just 85k triangles, since i doubt they use quads to depict the polycount. The way you are calculating is saying that they have tons of n-gons in their characters.

AsimLeonheart1422d ago (Edited 1422d ago )

@ChrisW

What do you mean by that!? Do you believe Pakistanis are subhuman or something? They cannot and should not be taken seriously? I am a Pakistani as well and most do not even know that because there is no difference. There are many highly educated, well-informed and accomplished Pakistanis that are better than you in every way. Pakistanis who speak English are usually highly educated and university graduates because average people do not know English. Get off your high horse and see humans as humans!

nirwanda1422d ago

@harrypotter show me any dev that uses sqauares instaed of triangles.

gaffyh1422d ago (Edited 1422d ago )

@nirwanda - You can model an object in polygons (four sides+), and with the 3D software, automatically split these into triangles, and then make minor changes, although 3DS Max, and Maya will usually do the smoothing for you. So you could model a 40,000 poly object, and do the split, and it would create a 80k triangle object.

So technically polygons and triangles are NOT the same thing because a polygon has more than 3 sides, HOWEVER, it depends on what the developer themselves refers to the triangle as, as they might just prefer calling it a polygon.

I would guess that 85k is a triangle figure rather than a polygon figure. 150k seemed to be causing a lot of framerate issues for them so its probably a good thing that they dropped it down.

LetoAtreides821422d ago

@BallsEye, why in that picture are they zooming in on the vein on his arm, the least detailed aspect of the models? I can for example easily see that the left model has more detail on the 6 bullets strapped to his chest, you can see the circles in the center of the bottom portion of the bullets.

You can also easily see more detail on his elbow band on the left model, you see more vertical lines.

starchild1422d ago

@gaffyh

So many of you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

A triangle IS a polygon. It is a three sided polygon, and it is really the only kind of polygon that modern game engines and game hardware works with.
http://wiki.polycount.com/P...

Artists will use quadrilaterals in modeling software because it is easier to model with quads, but it is always converted to triangles for use in engine.

When Guerrilla gave the presentation about their engine and one of the slides listed the poly count for the characters they were of course talking about the triangle count--the two terms are used interchangeably in the industry.

This was a presentation on their engine and of course they would give the poly count for characters as they appear in engine.

They aren't going to list the poly count of models in z-brush or whatever because its irrelevant to what gamers actually see or what the engine is actually working with.

Besides, why would any developer want to give out a smaller and less impressive number? Especially when the rest of the industry reports the poly count of characters as they appear in the game, not whatever it was in the modeling software.

jetlian1422d ago

a polygon is an inclosed figure. 3 is the minimum amount of sides needed to make a polygon!

Dreamcast was the first console to use triangular polygons the second was xbox 360. nobody uses 4 sided polygons anymore

DragonKnight1422d ago

Here's a question. Are any of you really going to notice the amount of triangles, squares, octagons, tetrahedrons, or trapeziums in the character?

assdan1422d ago

If that's true, doesn't that means kz shadowfall's poly count completely destroy this game?

stragomccloud1422d ago

Why are people making such a big deal about poly count? A good game is a good game. Graphics is nice icing on the cake, but first and foremost comes gameplay, story, and creativity, hand in hand.

Feralkitsune1422d ago

This comment just proved that most of the fanboys blow steam out of their nostrils and spout false information.

gaffyh1422d ago (Edited 1422d ago )

@starchild - the link you posted proves that what I said is correct. A polygon IS NOT triangle, IT IS converted into a triangle by the game engine, which essentially splits it into two. I practically said the same thing you said in your post, but somehow you managed to think you said something different,

I'm NOT saying that triangles and polygons are completely different things, just that one has four sides, and one has three, simple. And as I said, the Devs probably are used to calling triangles polys, which is where the confusion arises.

I personally call a polygon a polygon, and a triangle a triangle, in my 3D models.

P0werVR1422d ago (Edited 1422d ago )

@stragomccloud

You know why? Simply because they have no clue what they are on about.

It's so obvious.

150k of polygons for a model was pretty much like, whoa! Now what are the trade-offs for that if it's just one character? And I was kind of iffy.

But now it's reduced to 85k, STILL it is heft amount of polygons for a model, and probably a finer experience overall for better graphics.

So this is nothing, I WANT MORE SP gameplay. Aren't we here for games?! If so, WTH are you guys complaining as if you know the hell your talking about?

EDIT:

Btw, this guy who wrote the article knows hell of what his talking about. Smart people would take this with a grain of salt and moved on...but you know how things turns out on this site.

Fanboys, yes annoying. But Sony fanboys?! Boy are they on another low level of stupidity. As a PC gamer, I can still remember in how PS3 was far superior than PC. I'm talking about moonshot claims. Just ridiculous.

N4GDgAPc1422d ago (Edited 1422d ago )

@gaffyh

You are wrong. Start any 3d modeling program and have the polygon count and triangle count on. You have 1 triangle and 1 quad.

Polygon = 2
triangle = 3

Now convert that to triangles

polygon = 3
triangle = 3

Game engines can't use quads so it converts all quads to tris.

If the game engine would allow quads the polygon count would be 2.

@Death below

Them crying about polys is kind of a joke. With a good artist your not going to see much of a difference between 150k tris to 85k tris.

The question that proves it was running on pc's in E3 if the game was running perfectly at 150k tris with 60fps and at 1080p then why did they have to downgrade it to 85k, 30fps, 900p? Its because it wasn't running on xbone. But developers do this all the time when they reveal a game and its not actual ingame. They make it more prettier than it looks. Touch up images of the game is done alot also.

Death1422d ago

How people can say "rushed console" let alone write it is astounding. Both consoles have been in development for the same time. It's been almost 8 years since the last gen launched. If you consider the longest span in console history to be "rushed" something is seriously wrong with you.

Microsoft made the more technical console. Sony went with quick and simple with their approach. Both are based on the same AMD architecture. If you are still hung up on the high end PC's at e3, you have absolutely no clue how consoles and games are developed and should really keep quiet on the topic and maybe listen and learn. How many systems peak at launch? You guys are doing nothing for the industry with your constant spewing of bs. It's sad and insulting to the rest of us that atleast have a clue.

You want to do some good with your free time? Why not petition Sony to support Cerny's first attempt at a game system? It would be really nice tosee Sony acknowledge the Vita as something more than a remote for the PS4. Hands down most powerful handheld released. Worst support I have seen since the Virtual Boy. How is that not an issue?

Gozer1422d ago

At 85k triangles, Ryse still has double the triangles of the character models in Killzone SF. So you sony fanboys might want to get your priorities straight.

Ryse is still the most graphically impressive next-gen title to date.

marcofdeath1422d ago

People here's the problem with articles like this, the facts. This game was never 60 frames per second that's a fact. "Performance-wise, the target is 30fps,-"
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
The developer never said triangles he said 85,000 polygons. This is another case of the PS4 not keeping up with this hardware if you remove moving the LODs that means your hardware is rendering each character at any 85,000 polygons per character. So that means that this hardware is rendering 2.5 times more polygons than PS4 that uses LODs so that it's hardware has a easier time rendering polygon characters. His original message is here. http://gearnuke.com/ryse-do...

N4GDgAPc1422d ago

@marcofdeath

Killzone developers did say 40k polygons. Now there is some developers that say polygons they mean tris sometimes not. I do believe that 40k that was mentioned is in quads. So I believe its 80k. But will never know unless they say so.