210°
Submitted by PockyKing 301d ago | opinion piece

Microsoft or Sony — Who’s Better for Indies?

OnlySP: It’s no secret that indie gaming has been a huge talking point during this year’s console war. Sony hit the indie ground running back in February when they announced a PlayStation 4 port of Jonathan Blow’s The Witness during their original console reveal event. The company made a big deal from the beginning that the PS4 supported self-publishing. Sony then followed up in a big way, presenting an armada of indie titles that are making their console debuts on PS4 or Vita during E3 and again at Gamescom. (Microsoft, PS4, Sony, Xbox One)

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Regis  +   301d ago
Let the flame war begin
PockyKing  +   301d ago
Why even post that comment? Why not start a discussion so a flame war doesn't start?

@Thepharaoh

I've been on this site long enough to know that. But it doesn't help posting a comment like that, if you don't want a flame war to start, or whatever you like to call it, start a discussion. Easy as that.

Personally, Sony's my go to console for indies at the moment until Microsoft takes a warmer embrace to indies.

Really looking forward to seeing how people use the debug portion of the Xbox One though since every console is essentially available as a development kit.
#1.1 (Edited 301d ago ) | Agree(15) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
Thepharaoh  +   301d ago
It's inevitable this site is going to have a large flame battle over this article don't bother trying to have anything close to a logical discussion over the state of both companies and their stance on the idea of indies .You want a different gaming site most users only come here to laugh at the fanboy fights anyway. And he is right it is going to begin rather soon.
I for one think they will both do equally well for the indie industry although currently Sony looks to be doing the very best However not every ps4 is a dev kit something the Xbox one has over the ps4 in terms of the indies so they both seem to have great stances from the get go. t That's me trying to start this off logically can't wait for it to go more south than a Redneck convention.
@edit that #1 comment is more productive and reasonable than about 90% of what is usually thrown on this site and since really it's already begun i don't really see a big problem
@
#1.1.1 (Edited 301d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(2) | Report
xHeavYx  +   301d ago
I believe Sony is the only one of the two who lets Indies decide the final price of the game, so I'd go with Sony
P0werVR  +   301d ago
Well, Microsoft has more experience with indie developers so might provide a better service for them to facilitate sells. History says so, but at the end of it...their indies!

Either way they'll be on PCs and any accessible device, at least a significant amount of indie games.

EDIT:
@xHeavYx

Microsoft offers the same option.
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darthv72  +   301d ago
honestly, i dont understand where the MS is not keen on indies came from.

Especially since the 360 brought the idea of indie gaming to consoles. Ms made dev kits very reasonably priced. They even went so far as to create an indie section in the live marketplace.

Sony may deserve some credit for embracing indies as the 'new thing' for next gen but they should give credit where its due and that is to Ms for starting the movement.
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tokugawa  +   301d ago
lol @ pockyking

this article was wrote especially for n4g, and the flamewar and hits that it is guaranteed to create. smh
Regis  +   301d ago
Well its also a no brainer for a flame war when you put Microsoft vs. Sony discussion.
Hatsune-Miku  +   301d ago
Microsoft or Sony who's better for gaming In general?

We should compare positives and negatives.
One company online service was down for three weeks, another had almost half of their consoles breaking for years.one constantly released AAA exclusives that are highly regarded while the other had a handful of exclusives and sequels to them the whole of this generation. One charged for online gaming while one didnt.

Games are the most important thing and one company constantly provided new exclusives and games the whole gen while the other companies ip listing is meager
#1.1.7 (Edited 301d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(2) | Report
ABizzel1  +   301d ago
Based on potential sales for their games (excluding PC)

1. MS / Sony
3. Nintendo

Based on ease of dealing with

1. Nintendo
2. Sony
3. MS

Based on experience with Indies

1. MS
2. Sony / Nintendo

Based on developer response of support

1. Sony
2. Nintendo
3. MS

Overall

1. Sony
2. MS / Nintendo (MS if you want to sell well, Nintendo if you want complete freedom)
#1.1.8 (Edited 301d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(6) | Report
AceBlazer13  +   301d ago
Dude a flame war is inevitable.The topic could be your favourite ice cream flavour and then *boom* it becomes sony vs micro
Army_of_Darkness  +   301d ago
Hmmmm.. . According to my very basic, n4g, YouTube, not even trying to hard unextensive research, I would say the ps4 has the upper toe.
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come_bom  +   301d ago
No console can beat the PC in indies... that's the platform where i get most my indies.

If i can choose to get a indie on pc or consoles, i will go with the PC version without second thought. I only purchase exclusives for consoles.
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Relientk77  +   301d ago
I think its clear from all the press conferences and announcments

"PS <3 Indies"

there are so many indie games coming to PS4 its unbelievable
noctis_lumia  +   301d ago
sony ofc
Goro  +   301d ago
Obviously Sony, thought i'm not sure if that's a good thing considering most indies suck...Keep in mind i said "most".
PlayStation_4  +   301d ago
depends on your tastes, what indie games have you played anyways?
Goro  +   301d ago
Journey, Thomas Was Alone, The Unfinished Swan, Sound Shapes etc...
Jughead3416  +   301d ago
Sony knows that most Indie titles won't be worth much. But every now and then, an Indie Dev will create an amazing game. For instance, Media Molecule (an indie studio) created Little Big Planet. That game became a blockbuster title and Media Molecule became one of the top devs for Sony. Sackboy even bacame one of the mascots for playstation. I'm pretty sure with their indie support, they're looking for that diamond in the rough again, and they'll find it.
#4.2 (Edited 301d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Regis  +   301d ago
Could be Rime
JackStraw  +   301d ago
lol. i'm gonna call bs.
Goro  +   301d ago
You know they mostly suck your just trying to get agrees from people who think exactly like you...which for some reason is most of this site.
JackStraw  +   301d ago
lol. yeah, let's go with that. still calling you on your bs. doubt you've played any of those games.
PlayStation_4  +   301d ago
I loved all those games but I guess indies are purposely not for everyone, they usually just find a niche and capitalize on that.

I'm sure that there'll be an indie for everyone though!
adventureghost124  +   300d ago
Well think of when postseason cost started, like crash bandicoot, a 3 man team it was an indie game, now known as naughty dog they are one of the most known respected and liked first party developers of all time. a lot of big companies/developers got started with indie games,
IHassounah  +   301d ago
From a perspective of "Who's better" , I have to say Microsoft and I know a lot of people will disagree with me but hear me out , Microsoft is giving out 2 free dev kits for every developer and they are also making the console be a dev kit it self meaning the it's a future proof for any developer to have the console between there hands and easy to access to certain features without the need of payment .
But when it comes to the perspective of who have the better support , I'd say Sony for supporting the indie development from the whole beginning .
GiantEnemyCrab  +   301d ago
Not only that but MS has been on the indie bandwagon all last gen. XNA and the Indie developer contests and even having a whole section of the Marketplace dedicated to Indie developers.

Sony seems to have the indie buzz right now but MS are making a lot of moves as you mentioned.
Death  +   301d ago
It's amazing you are getting disagrees on this. Not many know what XNA was mainly due to the fact indies weren't a big thing until people thought Sony invented the idea with the PS4. Microsoft did it first and no one really cared. Sony announces it and it's a revolution in gaming. Funny how this place works at times.
Bathyj  +   301d ago
You lost me at MS did it first. Its like Net Yaroze never existed.
Death  +   301d ago
If you want to include "hobbyist" you will have to go back further to the original Famicon. XNA was the first to take indie developed games and have them published. Net Yaroze didn't have the ability for indies to get their games out to the masses or have a business model around it. It was simply for people programming as a hobby.
isarai  +   301d ago
Sony "DevNet" has dev kit loaner programs(that are completely free) and a "Pub Fund" which is a direct funding program for any indie dev that might need some extra funding but it does not carry the contractual burden of publishing funds.
adventureghost124  +   300d ago
Sony has also lent out dev kits and those X1 dev kits can only run direct x and if you need a dev kit that can run other codes for the one, I believe it costs around 5000 where as purchasing a ps4 dev kit costs around half that.
Jughead3416  +   301d ago
Well at least for Sony, many Indie titles will truly be free to play and not behind a pay wall. Which not only is a slap in the face to gamers, but also to Indie Devs who actually won't see any of that money. It's awesome that on Nov. 15th, I'll actually be able to download at least 5 games for free. PS+ won't be required.
#6 (Edited 301d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
pabadamus1  +   301d ago
Sony looks more indie friendly as of right now. The article does bring up legitimate concerns regarding quality controls and discoverability. I think we should give Sony the benefit of the doubt that there are robust QC and approval measures in place.
XboxFun  +   301d ago
Definite MS.

They were on board with 360 and they are on board with the One.

Sony seems to just be capitalizing on the recent "indie" buzz train.
Jughead3416  +   301d ago
MS just jumped on the bandwagon recently. They seen the success of Sony and wisely did something about it. But, if a game was to be free to play on PS4 and XBOX ONE, which platform would you choose. PS4 won't require PS+, but MS would require XBOX LIVE. The games will still be behind a paywall. So a gamer that can't afford XBOX LIVE I guess is screwed.
ExCest  +   301d ago
That's completely irrelevant to the current argument. This is about indie support and benefits.

MS has supported indies earlier than Sony but Sony could easily put out the same, if not more, support as MS.

Neither are better (unless one costs more to develop for and provide updates. Both Sony and MS are pretty expensive to update your games).
XboxFun  +   301d ago
Xbox 360 had the indie channel which supported anyone who wanted to make a game and submit it to the console. They had a low develop entry fee ($100 I believe) and even gave you the tools to make whatever (XNA). The whole channel was supported and ran by it's own community.

Also Xbox 360 used to regularly have a Kotaku best of Indie Games. Where they would pick their favorite game from the indie channel and feature it.

Not to mention 360 also had a similar Summer of Arcade promotion but for nothing but their Indie games.

Long time 360 owners will know this.

As for the rest of your rant, it's off topic but I'll address it.

If a gamer can't afford Live then how could they afford the console itself?
But if you want to spend $400 bucks just to play F2P games on your shiny new PS4 then go on ahead.
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Jughead3416  +   301d ago
How many Indie games are for XBOX ONE? How many Indie games are for PS4? No comparison. Even developers have praised Sony for their support. MS is making better strides to support them than before, but when the people who actually make the games support PS4 so overwhelmingly, that should tell you something.
nukeitall  +   301d ago
@jug:

MS not having indie games at launch doesn't mean MS does not support them. If anything, MS is still the friendlier console in terms of letting indies ultimately anyone to build and release a game.

Sony still requires that pesky and expensive dev kit like they did their entire Playstation history.

MS is the only one really pushing for indie developers and I mean REAL indie developers sitting in their bedroom coding the night away. Not the relatively well funded 10-20 manned teams that can afford several thousand dollar dev kits.

Sony might have reached out to some (indie) developers, but they certainly hasn't shown in their history to support them in the real sense with cheap access, free tools, developer support from engineers and forum/community.

Because a little marketing speak doesn't make it real!
JackStraw  +   301d ago
@nukeitall "real indie devs" lol. go play in sand, man. you are such an xbot drone. to just belittle every indie studio out there, and then call yourself a gamer. just wow.
DigitalRaptor  +   301d ago
@ XboxFun

The question is why the hell are there no indies at launch? Why did Microsoft go from such staunch support last gen to something completely disapproving this generation? The developers have spoken.

I mean zero indie games on XB1 until 2014??? Are they serious?

@ nukeitall

"I mean REAL indie developers sitting in their bedroom coding the night away. Not the relatively well funded 10-20 manned teams that can afford several thousand dollar dev kits."

Of course you believe Microsoft are the only ones "really pushing" for indie developers. You honestly don't know who these developers flocking to Sony are, do you? And you CLEARLY don't recall that Sony has been loaning these teams dev kits for a long time now.

Let's guess for one moment who were the ones stomping on the importance and relevance of indie games? Trying to downplay them, because of Sony's overwhelming support? YOU. Your comment history confirms it. And so, all of a sudden, Microsoft are in the better position as far as indies are concerned, because they're late to the party and are not ready with their assbackward policies, as usual?? How convenient.

You folks are beyond deluded.
--

So let's ask ourselves some questions, in response to those saying sony are riding off "recent indie buzz".

Which company has been supporting original vision and indies for almost 2 decades? SONY.

Which company was supporting indies and nurturing creative ventures during the PS3's lifecycle? SONY.

Which company was supporting indies on PS Vita before PS4 was even announced? SONY.

Which company is supporting indies years before their new console is even out? SONY.

Which company won't have any decent indie game support until early 2014? MICROSOFT.

Which company is hosting a quarterly meeting for indie developers? SONY. http://www.vg247.com/2013/0...

Which company is the Premier sponsor for IndieCade and has been for years? SONY & PLAYSTATION. http://www.indiecade.com/sp...

Time to re-analyse.
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XboxFun  +   301d ago
@ digitalraptor

Who has a dedicated Indie channel NOW? Not something on the NEXT system. Microsoft

Which company gave indies the tools and the platform to create and sell their games NOW? Microsoft

Which company is offering server support at a huge discounted rate for whomever, whether it's indie or a big dev house? Microsoft

Which company advertised and put Indie games right next to the main arcade dl's and On Demand games? Microsoft

Which company HAS BEEN supporting indies years before their new console is even out? Microsoft

Which company STILL WILL HAVE decent indie games ON their current console? Microsoft

Which company offers FREE dev kits to members and has dev kit feature on every retail Xbox One? Microsoft

Which company gives indie developers access to the full range of Xbox features including Achievement support, Kinect functionality, SmartGlass support and access to the Xbox cloud.
Microsoft

Your the one who is deluded now that Sony has this all of a sudden supposed mass indie appeal when it has been their on the 360 ALL ALONG.

You keep saying that there's no indie games on the Xbox One until 2014, but there's indie games on the Xbox 360 RIGHT NOW. And there will be more than ever on the Xbox One as well.

Explain that?

hilarious that this is the topic everyone is so passionate about when before it was a non-issue and indies were NEVER discussed before or even regarded as games when talking about exclusives for the 360.

But now it matters.
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pyramidshead  +   301d ago
they are only JUST on board with the XB1 you mean. That's why you won't get indies on the XB1 until 2014. Sony has been capitalizing on the indie buzz because there was at one point, for a long while, no real competition. MS have been playing catch up ever since with their 180s and finally coming out with some decent policies and features.
JackStraw  +   301d ago
you must not have much knowledge on the history of gaming... you probably only got into gaming last gen. which is fine, but educate yourself at least. sony's history with indies goes back to the ps1 days with ND. sony fell off with the ps3 when it comes to indies, but with the ps4, they're going back to their roots.
SoulSercher620  +   301d ago
Care to mention how many negative articles MS has compared to Sony when it came to indies? Sony FORCED MS to change their policies because the Xbone was anti-indie. MS just made the Xbone a free devkit to try and satisfy indies yet they still control the pricing. That is still anti-indie when they control how much a game is worth.
isarai  +   301d ago
Just because they had a market for indies does not mean they were supporting them. you HAD to have a publisher and if you didn't you had to let MS be your publisher which gave them free reign to control whatever they wanted. They also sent many indie devs through hell and not only that XBL provides the lowest profit ratios of all three platforms. MS seems to be backtracking on those cumbersome regulations but we won't know just how much they've changed things for the devs until we hear from the lot of them well into next gen.
Dlacy13g  +   301d ago
Sony has made great strides with Indies and MS while once really good, let some antiquated policies stay in place for far too long. MS clearly is rallying but I would say Sony right now seems to be the clear choice between the 2 consoles. That all said PC is still head and shoulders above either if you ask me.
arbitor365  +   301d ago
anyone who says microsoft is deluding themselves. you can count the ammount of exclusive indie games on xbox one with one hand

https://docs.google.com/spr...

by the way, arent the xbots the ones calling the PS4 "indiestation 4" and all that crap?
Dlacy13g  +   301d ago
Dude...while I think Sony has done great...the indie channel on the 360 is filled with games that are exclusive to the 360 marketplace. They may not be top tier games but there is a gagillion of them.

edit: I see you are just talking Xbox One... which clearly Sony has far more that are publically known but MS has been good for indies on a whole.
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amnalehu  +   301d ago
The fact that this question is even being asked is laughable.
Rageanitus  +   301d ago
If you want INDIES, get a PC
Just looking at the indie games found on ps3 and xbox you find they charge more for the same game on PC
CGI-Quality  +   301d ago
Except that in Sony's case, they're mostly free titles. Besides, a PC gamer myself, their strategy seems much more user-friendly.
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PowerPlayaaa  +   301d ago
@amnalehu

i was about to say exactly the same thing hahah

+ bubbles for you sir :)
S2Killinit  +   301d ago
well, we kind of know which company was thinking about supporting them before hand, and which company only did so after finding out that indies would flock to the other if they didn't give concessions. So, yeah. Its like that.
PockyKing  +   301d ago
Not really true. Microsoft had XNA and an indie platform way before Sony really jumped in on the indie market.
Crazay  +   301d ago
Well said Pocky. Bubs for that sir.
S2Killinit  +   299d ago
thats true, in fact I remembered that once I commented, however, in light of microsoft's more recent moves it can be argued that microsoft only makes concessions when they feel that they have to and not for any other reason e.g. advancing the gaming habitat. At the beginning of this new generation both companies had a clean slate and could draw their approach in whatever way they wished (and we all saw where they wanted to take us; their so called "vision") whereas in the previous (PS3/360) era, the two companies (especially MS) didn't know where they stood as far as in relation to their competition. Sony probably thought they were going to dominate again and MS probably thought "we need to get a bigger piece of the pie". So yeah, i think MS's company policy this next gen is more telling of what they are made up of .
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BG11579  +   301d ago
Sony has the best indies for the next generation. Microsoft is loosing by default, they don't have indies yet for the xbone.
Crazay  +   301d ago
I have no idea who's better for Indies because I've never tried to develop a game. I do know that the fact that every XBoxOne console can be used to develop Indie titles will certainly make for an interesting generation. I think it would open the doors for many weekend warriors and their friends who have always wanted to try to make something and it could well help to usher in some new and entertaining stories/concepts.
Goku781  +   301d ago
What does it matter, ultimately they will go with where the money is and who allows them the most freedom. Next question?
Belking  +   301d ago
No contest. xbox360 was better for indies and xbox-one will be the same.
Wizziokid  +   301d ago
I'm going to go with Sony simply because they came into the new generation with the love for indies where as MS still didn't get them, sure they have changed there policies to become indie friendly but the fact Sony was doing right by them from the start is a pretty obvious advantage
medman  +   301d ago
Is this headline a joke question? 4>1.
jcnba28  +   301d ago
Sega
ziggurcat  +   301d ago
is this a rhetorical question?

because the answer is obviously sony...

edit: and i shake my head at all of the xbox fanboy hypocrites right now - last month, all of you were making fun of sony for heavily supporting indies, now, all of a sudden indies are MS's best friend?
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persona4chie  +   301d ago
....Sega? Persona 5 FTW?
IanVanCheese  +   301d ago
I have to give it to Sony on this one, though Microsoft are working their assess off to rectify this. Give it 6 months and they'll be on an even footing.
XabiDaChosenOne  +   301d ago
I would figure it is the company with the console currently being called the "indiestation" isn't that right Xbox fanboys
TheOneEyedHound  +   301d ago
Actually, Sony has never fucked indie developers in the ass.

Edit: or tried to.
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etownone  +   301d ago
Who the heck really really cares about indies?

The 360 has a shtload of indie games and the all suck.

Give me real ganes... And I'll play little crap indie games on my phone when I'm taking a crap
isarai  +   301d ago
Sony easily, they've been supporting them since PS1 and have always given them tons of freedom. Hell you can even decide to NEVER let them see or check the game until it's ready to be submitted for distribution, then you could make it completely free if you want to.
josephayal  +   301d ago
microsoft hands down
AceBlazer13  +   301d ago
So the Xbox guys want to be the indie lovers now?
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