Microsoft's director of product planning Albert Penello says the firm expected controversy over its original always-online Xbox One pitch, but was surprised by "how negative" the reaction was.
They should've paid attention to the last 10 years then. Maybe they just saw it as other companies get away with it why wouldn't they?
All they had to do was pay attention to the incident Adam Orth caused before the May Conference and E3.
Yeah micro really f-d that up. I still think the bigger problem was mixed message rather than drm itself, lol you could tell they hadn't done a "hotbrief"/ consumer focus panel which is ask themselves the worst questions or purposely try pick holes in the plan, you had different spokesmen contradicting each other....if you come out with that type of idea you need a solid plan AND reward users with incentives. Ive talked to at least 20 folks here at work and ALL of them would rather be able to share all their paid for games with as little as just 2 close friends online as oppose to being able to sell it back to gamestop. vvvv I wouldn't say out of touch..just plain wrong, a mistake, misjudgement, bad call, yo know it happens same as Sony or any other company who makes a poor decision, if they wete perfect then customers would always be happy if they were "out of touch" then they wouls STILL have the same policies.
That just shows how out of touch Microsoft is.
^ Yup, I'm surprised by how surprised they are. Well, actually I'm surprised by how surprised they CLAIM TO BE. I don't believe this recent "oh, but I didn't know you didn't like DRM BS".
They perceived the Adam Orth reaction to a bunch of internet users making noise.
they still have DRM in their mind? i believe they will bring it back at some point but i dont hope so for the X1 owners at that moment.
Ohh mann. I not gonna be surprised when they put back that DRM crap. Once the instal base is big enough about 30 million they will force DRM through your throat. I hope for the best.
The only way they could have been surprised by this is by admitting that they don't listen to the consumers. If they had, like many above have said, then they'd never attempt to do so. It's either that, or they looked at Apple getting away with it and thought people wouldn't care. But different audiences have different ideas on things like this and, as the provider of a product, it's your job to research what people want/like and what they don't want/like.
@abzdine Very true, and why you are not expeting of them not thinking of DRM is beyond me. But given the situation in what they provide at the end of it should benefit most gamers depending on the inevitable transition to digitalization. DRM will restrict gamers (something frowned on) to a sustainable digital ecosystem and why true gamers hate this. Even if it becomes successful it's perceived by most gamers that it won't last long and some gamers actually believe in this, FACT! So you are very right in what you claim along with most console gamers even if they don't know better, boy is gaming going to be sweet for PS4 owners long enough to see the rise of cloud computing. Oh YEAH, Outlast day one!
@blackbed I completely agree. Once they hit their sales goal after say a year what prevents MS from reverting policies? By that time, the Xbox one install base has two options buy a ps4 or "deal with it". I know "some" users were upset that Sony removed otherOS due to piracy/exploits. Who is to say MS won't just "flip the switch for DRM" to ON and state the same thing? All they have to do is update terms of service. .
No, the problem wasn't the messaging, it was the message itself. There is no way in hell they are going to get my money and then own the game at the same time. I don't care who they are... Microsoft, Sony, Valve, Nintendo, etc.
Honestly the reason i think they were so shocked is because they were so honed in on what they were creating they forgot what the average consumer actually likes, and who those consumers actually are. This is how I believe they think Microsoft: buy our console. you dont own it. its ours. but you can rent it until we discontinue the service...or when your internet goes down Microsoft: hmmm preorders are terrible and internet is angry. lets retract all the negatives for now and release a day one update. then when our install base is high enough and people have invested enough money...we'll slowly bring back DRM and restricted use of used games in a new update...and we'll give everyone free stuff at that time so they don't notice
@Anthotis out of touch? what an understatement. I personally think that they were too deep up their own arses!
"MS surprised by 'how negative' reaction was to Xbox One DRM" Then they are f-ing idiots
Are you listening Google and Apple? They are signaling what you need to exploit! Apple and Google are both wanting to enter the console market. Guess what? If Google is Sony's only competition with a retail disc, then Microsoft would be pushed OUT of the games market. So Microsoft is only think the online requirement was the problem? What about never really owning a game? Paying a fee to sell your game. Needing a sever to play would also mean once xboxtwo comes and they turned off the 300,000 severs the xboxone would not longer function(conveniently way of forcing your customers to upgrade). What about only being allowed to sell it to a store they approve. Only being able to buy used games from a store they approve. All this is BS, they tested our reactions several times, and even talked about polls over a year before the February reveal. So I call bs. They just thought they could wait until preorder sales came in, and they would be in business from loyal fanboys like me, and get away with it. WRONG I now hate microsoft can't wait on my PS4. Even if it had been 1/2 the power of the xboxone I will not sale myself out, not even for you mastercheif!
they surprised at that then they don't anything
Or the uproar people were in for months ahead of the reveal surrounding the rumor that the new console was going to restrict used games. It blows my mind that they were either deaf to it, or straight up ignored it and then were "Surprised."
Surprised? How in the heck were they surprised? You tell people that they can't do what they want with the game that they paid for and then tell them that you have to have an internet connection at all times to even play or your xbone becomes a blu ray player only? How did they think that wouldn't piss people off? They just thought that they could do what ever they wanted and people would just go along with it. Then came Sony and pulled the rug right out from underneath them LOL. Sony did listen to gamers and now they're reaping the benefits.
@JokesOnYou is there reason you have so many stars on site where you are heavily disagreed with on daily basis, i think i will get mod to look at your account
He says some people "understand" today and want that back, always online, in other words he just said MSFT will reintroduce DRM in the future once gamers are ready for it according to MSFT of course, they will say gamers demanded it
@JOY The problem with MS vision of sharing your games was that it was limited to an hours play only so I would rather own the disk and lend them the full game instead.
I believed people are mad at the 24/7 DRM and pay to play on another xbox DRM
The DRM was way too strict. The primary function of a game console is to play games. No one want their $500 console to become utterly useless after 24hrs of not connecting.
I think the real problem wasn't that is was too strict, it was that you had no choice. They should have provided two options - Play games from disk and continue on as you always have - Install the games from disk or download and be able to share your game, but then you have to deal with the always on and DRM Forcing it on people was the root of the problem.
@kneon You hit the nail on the head. They should of gave those two choices. Well said!
Agree with you kneon. I don't think anyone could have said it better.
@kneon Nobody would have bought into the DRM if they had been given the option. Well, not nobody but almost nobody. Nobody is going to pay for a game that they can't sell back, when they can pay the same money for a game that they can resell. People do that math in their head instantly. No one would buy the DRM system if they had the choice to buy a system with no DRM. Microsoft was hoping to use its brand loyalty to coddle / force its fans into the DRM system. But it wasn't going to work. When the pre-order numbers came in low they changed out of fear. Pure and simple. Fear is the best motivator.
@Darrius Cole I've only ever bought one used game, have never sold a game and only very occasionally lend out games, and I'm not the only such person. For people like me there are some advantages to what Microsoft was proposing, though it would need some tweaking before it would be acceptable to most people. For example they should have allowed you to play even when you can't check in every 24 hours just by inserting the disk to prove ownership. Had they given people a choice and found the right balance between restrictions and convenience then this all could have turned out very differently.
@kneon I buy used but very rarely, probably 1 out of 10 games, I buy used. Even then it is mostly stuff that is more than 6 months old. I almost never sell back. I still have Soul Calibur 2 for the Xbox 1(the real "1"), and KOTOR. But the point here is not really the behavior of the consumer, it is the value in having the option. Options to buy or sell when and if you want to, have value, that's why they trade them on Wall Street. Checking in over the internet is the only way to police any DRM. There has to be a way to know that they person actually has a copy of the game and is not simply using a copy that he made from someone else's disc. The change you listed is how the XBO is now. It doesn't have to check-in after the 1st day patch (which is still going to upset some people who don't know that), but the game disc has to be in the tray.
Right here this tells me there's a problem. The fact that they didn't anticipate this level of negativity to their DRM scheme says to me they couldn't be more out of touch with gamers, and it worries me for the console going forward. If they had even pitched these policies to a room of even 20 gamers they would have quickly understood how this would be perceived. Hell, even the rumors of the possibility of this type of DRM was setting gamers aflame months in advance of when they actually made the announcement. They just weren't paying attention, or were simply too arrogant and dismissed what gamers were saying. Saying, "We knew we'd piss people off but not the majority" reminds me of the early days of the 360 when they knew they had problems with 360's coming off the line but choose to ignore the problem, publicly denying there was even a problem for over a year because, really, it was only affecting a minority of gamers anyway. What does this say about the company when they were again willing to thumb their nose at gamers until the mob rose up and took them to task, forcing them to back off? People have in the past criticized Sony for arrogant comments related to the PS3's launch (and not without merit in some cases), but what does this comment illustrate, showing Microsoft was willing to piss off gamers from the get go, just not realizing how many gamers it would actually turn off?
lol honestly i dont see how they didnt anticipate it like common are they really that stupid to shove weird policies down peoples throat 24 hours checks up for the game you play? like really MS, sometimes my internet provider acts funny and i cant get online trying to eliminate used games? this will benefit the developers no doubt, but how about us poor students that cant afford brand new games, so we use gaming to get away from our studies for a while the list goes on and on but to me MS is lying they knew people will react to it but they just didnt think their loyal fans would care enough and still purchase the console
They anticipated it of course . They just chalked it up to us being a minority of angry nerds and the world being supportive .
This comment was so on point that it's balancing on the head of a pin with it's eyes closed. "We knew we'd piss people off but not the majority" This comment right here tells me they knew that thier policies were going to piss of the hardcore fanbase but they thought the causals were going to roll over and take it anyways. How wrong they were, lol these guys are unbelievable.
If they are surprised by the negativity of the DRM, they are more clueless than I thought. The sad thing is, they are implementing it right now under a different name/guise, and hired reputation managers are spreading lies here in N4G.
Totally agree. It's crystal clear they don't give a flying **** about core gamers beyond their loyalty to Halo, Gears, and Forza. They are more focused on their own schemes on how to get mass market appeal while circumventing core gamer concerns. Well that's come back to bite them in their smarmy asses, and their reversal of fortune and backtracking just makes them look more pathetic than ever at this point. They clearly over-estimated the ability of their core franchises to appease what would be the early adopters of the system to the point of forgiving all their bizarre rules and restrictions. It doesn't matter how much they believe in their product's original vision, without early adopters, or rather, with most early adopters rushing to the PS4 that would spell out a disaster for MS. Now they say they listened. Now they care. Get real, MS. You never did care, and you still don't.
Surprised ?, i guess MS ran out of super lube, their just surprised that gamers wont bend over and take it so easily anymore. MS got biatch slapped back to reality.
Typical Microsoft... just simply have a disconnect with consumers. Its all and only about making that dollar at all cost. Plus winning the American market this current generation clearly gave them false hope in implementing that failed DRM policy.
All this adds up to is Microsoft saying they didn't know! No difference from a judge telling a criminal that ingnorance is not an excuse for breaking the law! Bullsh#t is obvious and Microsoft is playing on the gullibility of their consumers! Just think a software giant that doesn't realise the negative as well as the positive consequential effects of DRM!? That statement alone should pry open some eyes, for the simple fact people should already know that PC's gave birth to DRM! and who has developed software for PC's since when? Microsoft! So to me all this is saying is Microsoft is trying once again trying to deflect and minimize their own mistakes.
They literally just wanted to see how far people would let them put it in....They did the same thing with the XBLG, people said they were crazy and nobody would pay to play online or have everything locked behind a pay wall, and because they were right that time and people were willing they just assumed that they could push this and everything would go their way again... They would have had better luck saying if you buy digital it will be like they wanted it OR you could continue to buy retail discs and it be the same way it was on the 360... Even though literally none of those restrictions or anti consumer crap were at all necessary for a digital "future", Sony has been offering 99% of the games digitally day 1 for like 3 years and NONE of those restrictions were necessary.
In their software division(outside gaming) restrictive DRM is absolute. It is registered to a single computer in most cases. However, they aren't ignorant of the views of DRM, and since people have been complaining about DRM since it started being used in the internet age, MS knew full well what they were getting into. They just believed that their product was more desirable, and that people would overlook it because they wanted to play the games so badly. They learned the hard way that you can only push people so far and so fast. They tried to hard, and failed because the benefits didn't outweigh the restrictions, which was the complete opposite of other successful DD models...such as Steam.
"They should've paid attention to the last 10 years then." Even if they ignored all that, they could have just paid attention to the months leading up to the reveal, when all the DRM rumors were going around and people were vocally opposing the idea. Actually, some weren't opposing the idea as much as just saying "PS4 will have DRM too!". Even they knew it was bad, but it was ok as long as Sony fans got the slap too.
There were a lot of the "It's just the way it is people", but I was still really amazed at how few supporters there were for the whole idea. Not just on here, but across the whole net and gaming media itself. Things have gone back to normal troll/counter-troll discussions since the reversals, but for a few weeks there was some uniformity among the community.
Microsoft does not read people comments, or feedback? Did they really not see that from EA thing? Really?
If MS are surprised, then that can only mean they don't know their fanbase well, or are out of touch.
Whoever were surprised by this negative reaction should immediately be fired. As far as I'm concerned, about 80% of the workers at MGS (Microsoft Game Studios) should be laid off and replace them with people who has true experience with video games.
We'll if you look at it as trying to please consumers most every one is online with everything they do. Music, movies, TV, shit even games. The miscalculation on their part is that it's most. Not all.
I do believe MS messed up, but they would have gone to publishers and asked this before announcing. As much as MS screwed it all up, I would like to know who else was behind them but stayed quiet because of the backlash. There is no doubt some of the big guys want this, but time is not right. Future consoles from all will be DRM, just hope its not like IOS.
That is indeed true, but also part of the problem. Instead of getting in touch with the consumers, they just talked big money with bid money people. So, OF COURSE they would be on board. DRM, itself, is not the real problem. The problem is the restrictions of the DRM and what options the consumer truly has inside the ecosystem that is set up by the company. Stream has managed to figure out a great way to have some restrictions and also provide an incentive for the consumer. THIS should be what any company must do to be successful with DRM. However, the fear is that the console makers and publishers collude to get what they want and leave consumers with no choice but to buy in or play somewhere else.
After how bad the SimCity DRM was.....REALLY Microsoft
Or Diablo III. Or Final Fantasy 14...The list goes on and on
There we go, its what weve all been waiting for- confirmation that MS are not a video games company but a money interested corporation. They were oblivious where as sony would never had made the same decision as they are a proper video gaming company at heart and passionate rather than profit orientated.
They saw that pc gamers would take it up the a$$ without a real fight, so they thought console gamers would follow suit. disagree all you want tis plan turth.
"MS surprised by how NAGATIVE WAS TO XBOX 1 DRM" really??? oh' shut up with that lie. if MS will make a PR comment make it true for heaven sake.good lord these companies just lie for the hell of it and expect consumers be blind sheeps.
Or the reaction to months of rumours beforehand.
DRM was/is a good thing, it's the future of video gaming and its best for developers that spend hundreds of millions to make your fav games while comp like ganestop profit hundreds of millions. 9year olds and the uneducated were the voice of change sadly. Sorry, im a bit angry about the whole thing.
That's not how consumer behaviour works with any other product so why do they think they can force it? It's quite frankly not even how the law works (not in EU anyway)
MS is retarded
See MS isn't as innovative and forward thinking at they would like you to believe, quite the opposite. Launching a console which main focus is Live TV is a perfect point seeing how Live TV is on it's way out. GO PROGRESSIVE THINKING! And being surprised at backlash when you're trying to screw your customers just shows how disconnected MS truly are.
The Xbox division sure...MS as a whole?
Maybe not every part of MS but just look at Windows 8, Windows RT and all that crap. It's just terrible.
Ms cant contract it without being sued. Ms will never revert back to the original plan but I do see them adding the family share plan which people enjoyed. If you think ms would revert you must be a sony fan wanting them to be sued all over. Its over they messsed up and corrected there ways and the consoles still not even released so there is no damage to anyone legaly.
& they still didnt learn there lesson smh
Bill gates is probably a heroin addict by now with all of the shit going down in this console race
I doubt he gives a **** to be honest.
Bill Gates doesn't care; he's not really involved with MS anymore, especially the console division.
Really? Thats news to me
I doubt he really cares too much about it. The whole Xbox division could fail and be would still have more money than the console brings in.
Bill gates retired years ago he literally has NOTHING to do with Microsoft anymore, he just sits and home and collects his checks for his company
I hated it. It was wayyy to draconian.