Gameranx: "When it comes to graphics, Microsoft doesn't think the Xbox One is at a disadvantage."
Oh wow. A little momentum and they're already talking gibberish over their heads. Wake up, Microsoft, PS4 is 40 percent more powerful than Xbox One. And go have a look at Killzone: Shadow Fall.
"We Don't See Anything Better than Ryse, Forza 5 on Competing Platforms" Me either. But that's just graphics, gameplay is another scenario.
I agree with MS when they say that there isn't a significant difference between the two consoles yet. So they probably shouldn't make such claims about their games yet either. Ryse: Son of Rome averages 24 -26 fps and drops down to 20fps at times. http://youtu.be/VzVlVRe9QYI... Honestly, I'm not sure why it struggles. It's not open world or anything like that. IMO Killzone and even Infamous(being an open-world game) look just as good, if not, better.
i agree i dont see anything special about killzone but pretty graphics. ummm battlefield 4 destroys it all day everyday
Well, that's THEIR opinion or view. Now that we know when the Xbox One is being released, the customers will decide whether they are right or wrong.
Lol, MS is at the point where they need to start making these crazy claims. Ryse videos show how horrible the gameplay is. Besides, Sony has a story of making great games, instead of using the same 3/4 same IPs all the time. When was the last time MS came up with a new IP from their studios?
well they havent seen ps4 games. im being serious when i say some ps3 games rivals xbox one games. killzone 2, killzone 3, gt5, the last of us, uncharted 2, uncharted 3 ratchet, gow 3, gow ascension and some others. the xbox one games looks better than those ps3 games but its not by a wide margin killzone shadow fall clearly is the best looking game anywhere and its quite close with infamous second son.
Killzone looks the best to me graphics and gameplay wise. I love the cool and open levels and the owl used for recon is cool idea. It looks so fun to me. I don't want to be a fanboy and compare it to other titles because they all look good in their way. But I am very excited for Killzone.
Oh OK so Sony can take jabs at micro since E3 but micro explaining why they are confident in their console and its gibberish. 40% more powerful, yeah right, I think he's absolutely right games like Ryse and Forza5 speak for themselves. KZ SF you say? Ryse Marius character model= 150,000 polygons KZ SF highest LOD character= 40,000 polygons ...and Ryse has more enemies on screen at once vs KZ SF, both are linear though http://www.gamespot.com/for... http://n4g.com/news/1335101...
What do you expect micro$oft to say? Of course they're going to taut their wares LOL. The facts are still the same. The bone is an inferior piece of hardware that will farther and farther behind as the life cycle of these machines go forward. Already got my PS4 pre-ordered baby.
@ShinMaster A piece of paper with numbers on it does not make a game look better. MS is saying that the actual games displayed thus far for PS4 does not look on a higher level than those of their own platform...and they would be right. You can say what you want about the gameplay, buy Ryse VISUALLY and technically is a front runner in this next-gen. Forza 5 is the best looking racer of this next gen. Quantum Break is another that makes that case. Gamers let the GAMES do the talking, not specs, not paper.
@ jokes: you can't seriously be comparing an NPC AI character to the main character you're in control over... plus one game is a FPS, the other is a third person hack n' slash. if you're going to be petty and count polygons, you'd be better off comparing infamous with ryse. while not the same genre by any means, at least it's the same POV.
@ Jokes No it uses 150k TRIANGLES not polygons and if you think polygons and triangles are the same in computing then please do some research or stop posting mis-information.
wow.. at least we know they won't be doing 180 degree with this comment.
ziggurcat Yes I compared them only AFTER folks above me already did BUT instead of just giving my opinion I gave specific graphic details yo demonstrate at the very technical level Ryse is raising yhe bar graphically beyond KZ SF. We've all got our opinions but those details are facts and sgain its not even just this site KZ SF and Ryse both seem to be the graphical standards so far on each platform and ALOT OF GAMING FORUMS ARE COMPARING THEM I guess for this reason/start of a new gen.
@JokesOnYou You troll skills are weak kid. You think 150k triangles are the same as a polygon...wow just wow. You're in for a surprise when you get pick up Ryse. I played both KZSF and Ryse at PAX and I can tell you 1st hand that KZSF looks considerably better...can you say the same thing...have you played these games yet...nope :P
If you can't see anything better than Ryse on competing platforms, graphics or gameplay, you must not be able to see the competing platforms at all. IGN called the multiplayer BORING a few days ago. I doubt that the SP is all that enthralling if they can't make a half-decent MP, capable of exciting the easily-pleased IGN staff for an hour.
@JokesOnYou I'm guessing you didn't take Geometry seriously. Cause it looks like Dual Shockers is in the same boat, as they falsely reported 150k polys as well. Still grasping. want a real triangle in 3D? Get yourself a pyramid or tetrahedron.
Firstly I didnt bring up the KZ SF and Ryse comparison, its in comments above and of course all over gaming forums yet you ask why am I comparing them as if you dont notice whats already been said, at least instead of just stating opinion I gave cold hard graphic details. "When a game artist talks about the poly count of a model, they really mean the triangle count." http://wiki.polycount.com/P... "Triangle or polygon? In general or mathematical terms, a triangle is a polygon, and I often here the term "Polygons per second when discussing speed". Are they talking about triangles, or polygons like those found in 3D Studio Max, where the word polygon refers to a specific object formed out of adjoining faces, which are in fact two triangles." http://beyond3d.com/showthr... -Which is why many gaming sites generally discuss them as the same.
@ JokesOnYou ""Ryse has more enemies on screen at once"" And they're all brain-dead copy-pasted: http://i.imgur.com/kVdry2Y.... Besides, PS3 did this: http://youtu.be/mV2xJ0Ll8T8... So don't get cocky. So great, you have one character with a high poly count. But at what cost? http://youtu.be/VzVlVRe9QYI... Everything else suffers. Try to shake it as much as you'd like, but KZ is looking and running pretty awesome :)
Why is everything about graphics. Most fun I've had came from games with inferior graphics. Graphics amount to almost nothing.
Wow people are still comparing the main character of a 3rd person game to NPCs of a 1st person game? lol
@jokes http://gamerant.com/naughty... So.....what are you saying? Are you looking forward to ND new game? The polygons count will benearly 10times that of Ryse.......Or that's different
Yeah I get it its not all about graphics and I font know anything about polygons vs triangles and I dont want to throw fuel on the fire but I have eyes and for me Ryse is the most visually stunning next gen game. Still only a fool would say KZ is far behind. Rainstorm but thats a *report about ND "looking" for a artist to make a next gen character with 1,000,000 polys, I dont know if we'll see that on these consoles but cool but that hardly diminishes what Ryse is doing NOW and obviously both will surpass launch games, right?
As far as action on screen with tons of particle effects and constant explosions, smoke/fire. Plus the perfectly smooth animation with tons of movement in the sky and background. I haven't seen something like it on a console...
@Rainstorm81 Uncharted didn't use 1million poly characters for in game. They used the 1million poly for the high res to make a normal map on the low res character. Characters were between 15,000 to 30,000 polys. And pretty much before any 3D model is brought to any game the model is all in quads. Not triangles. No developer i know refer there models as triangles but polys.
@JokesOnYou Really comparing a third person game to a fps. Then only using character models for the base of your argument. I mean you're going to leave resolution, frame rate, texture detail out of the mix when discussing?
150,000 triangles on the main character, who is always front and center on your screen? OK. But how many triangles make up each AI enemy? Because THAT would be the comparison we're after with Killzone Shadow Fall's 40k polygon enemies. Comparing the main character who is on-screen 100% of the time to random AI character models that come and go throughout the game is ridiculous.
@ N4GDjAPc Wow, you people can't read. It's about Naughty Dog's next-gen game, not Uncharted 3.
Yeah I hear Ryse plays like crap sadly.
Jokes@ Action RPG main characters tend to have a bigger polygon count. So if GOW or a new Unchartred was announced... The main characters would have more or less that number depending on developers ideas. And since when does the polygons on a character define the graphical quality of it ?
@ShinMaster If you could read you would see I was referring to Rainstorm81. @pedrof93. "And since when does the polygons on a character define the graphical quality of it ?" I would say it doesn't. Just because its more polys doesn't mean its going to make it better. Normal maps can make a low res model look like a high res model. But more polys though added to detail can make a normal map better. Really 150,000 polys might be going overboard. A good artist can bring that down to 80,000 polys (probly more) and make it look exactly like the 150,000 poly character.
Utalkin2me for the last time I'm not the one who started the whole KZ SF vs Ryse comparison, I simply gave some context to all the opinions. lol, Its all good though, its just so funny watching you guys celebrate sonys jabs and throw out opinions as if their facts but god forbid micro boast or xbox fans have strong opinions then you act as if someone slapped your mom. lol, Ultimately it doesnt matter just buy the game/games you like. Pedro poly's have always defined graphics on a technical level, what you are trying to argue now is "art style" and yes some lesser poly count games can be more visually appealing based on art style, which in any case Ryse is not bland artistically by any stretch of the imagination but again that wasn't the debate here. I agree both games are of different genres so a direct comparison is unfair but again I speaking purely in regards to graphic detail which others were already comparing.
The amount of fanboy blood on the floor is enticing! Kaz be trollin as uh... Ms be rolling over... PS4 YEAH. WOOP WOOP!
Yeah, but MS is arrogsnt, right? Its only Sony that is arrogant. Nintendo can sit there and say that the PS4 launch line up looks "meh" and MS can say "that nothing looks better than Ryse or Forza" which are opinions let me remind you, but there arent arrogant right? But if Sony says they have the most powerful console (which is a fact) they are arrogant right? The level of hypocrisy fanboys and their beloved companies exhibit is astonishing
@Jokes 2 Things. 1st they are not both linear. KZ:SF has multiple objectives which can be completed in any order (in the same level). 2nd they Ryse 150K Triangle count is only for the model level 1 LOD. So the story telling scripted part. Maybe the QTE events where it blurs the rest of the screen. Now you could argue that the blur is to highlight the kill, but handily it also reduces the poly count that it needs to render.
If people are going to try an compare Killzone ShadowFall with Ryse, let's look at one other little detail... Ryse runs below 30 FPS. Killzone: SF runs at 60FPS (At 1080p). I'm not so much arguing the two games graphically, rather the power of the machines that will be running them.
I really can't believe people think Ryse looks good, This http://news.xbox.com/~/medi... does not look good to me. I see it as "150k triangles" wasted And to think of the audacity shown to compare it to something like this http://media1.gameinformer.... or this http://media1.gameinformer.... Let's have a closer, actual side-by-side look http://s18.postimg.org/cnfm... Seriously, I can't be the only one seeing Killzone on top by a mile. Marius' face looks like crap, they used a neanderthal as a face capture model and his eyes and mouth look far from next gen let alone "setting a graphical bar" All the additional characters on screen are clones that follow a set path and even Marius seems to be on rails at times in the single player. Meanwhile on Killzone we see beautifully rendered faces, high levels of detail and characters that look like someone you'd want to know more about. All running face-paced, in huge environments, at 60fps and 1080p. Please stop the comparisons!
Ryse is the best looking next gen title so far, for either platform. Thats not an opinion, thats a fact.
Double post / Wasted bubble
@Family Guy Those pics tell it all not to mention in the Ryse pic all three guys have the same face. If Ryse's characters have a higher Poly count, those pics dont do it justice. But then again KZSF pics are probably a cutscene and Ryse may be in game Edit: nvm it says Ryse Cinematic ....hmmmm
it isnt easy to call, because ryse, forza and kz are the shining launch games in grfx department. so, best looking driving game: forza (by a mile) best looking third person: ryse (by a mile) nest looking fps: kz. i dont think bf will touch it in the grfx area
DriveClub last I heard was 30% complete and ran at 30fps, so no, Forza 5 hands down. Ryse is the best looking game on any console platform. They are good games to hold you over, but Titanfall destroys all!
Hey guys don't forget to pick up the special RYSE controller: http://i169.photobucket.com...
Based on what I have seen Drive club looks like the best looking driving game easily. And funnest with that awesome sense of speed!
@JokesOnYou "Pedro poly's have always defined graphics on a technical level" I think that is wrong. What defines graphics is the lighting and textures (by using Normal maps and I bet there going to use parallel mapping this next generation). For any game its good to have as low poly as possible to have a stable game. 150,000 poly characters is pushing it. I guaranteed you get a great artist and they can make a 80,000 poly look the exact same as the 150,000 poly character. Probly even less to.
@JokesOnYou, It's 150k triangles, not polygons, --tri=3, --poly=a shape with multiple sides, meaning 3+, generally 5 or more, -----40,000 POLYGONS FAR exceeds 150k triangles only, as most polygons are more than 3... --Also that is just character models, the entire ryse world doesn't compare to KZ:SF, -which is semi open world, there are different levels, but each level has open world elements to it, unlike Ryse, which is QTEs and button mashing until all the baddies are dead...
you call repetitive combat and unnecessary slow motion during execution good gameplay?
@JokesOnYou "Utalkin2me for the last time I'm not the one who started the whole KZ SF vs Ryse comparison, I simply gave some context to all the opinions." lol You did it on your first post. Your Xbot wires running through your brain needs some serious readjusting. "KZ SF you say? Ryse Marius character model= 150,000 polygons KZ SF highest LOD character= 40,000 polygons ...and Ryse has more enemies on screen at once vs KZ SF, both are linear though" -JokesOnYou -- "I simply gave some context to all the opinions." A very flawed opinion piece you tried reinforcing of comparing the main character to an NPC. I see it brought up and shot down many times. People aren't idiots to buy into that kind of very flawed logic. That's just the kind of logic fanboys use to cover up a disadvantage in their console of choice. - "Its all good though, its just so funny watching you guys celebrate sonys jabs and throw out opinions as if their facts but god forbid micro boast or xbox fans have strong opinions then you act as if someone slapped your mom. lol, Ultimately it doesnt matter just buy the game/games you like." The graphical difference between the two consoles has been let out and proven with the games shown that the PS4 does have some sort of graphical advantage against the Xbox One. We're talking not just some polygon count, but also in having better frame rates per second. When someone says, the PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox One, it is fact because developers have already stated it that the PS4 version is somehow a little better. I think you're just hurt that people don't specifically say, "significantly better" and they make it sound like it's a major graphical advantage. Graphically, they might be close in some aspects, but performance wise, PS4 will outperform the Xbox One due to GDDR5 alone. Either way, the PS4 is still more powerful and Sony isn't lying while Microsoft posted this. It's clear that they haven't payed attention to Killzone: Shadowfall or Infamous: Second Son. I think it's more that Microsoft has stated this, which by comparing games on both sides, it isn't true and that's why people are correcting them. Ryse is the only game showing Xbox One's real graphical power but Sony's heavy hitters squash it with some extra force the Xbox One hasn't shown. -- "I agree both games are of different genres so a direct comparison is unfair" Then you shouldn't have brought it up in the first place, simple as that. If you knew it wasn't fair, then you could of just dismissed it and never have brought it up so you wouldn't make yourself look more of a fool. Good day sir.
I looked at the image and it does say Triangles. 150,000 triangles is a good range model for next gen. What they did they tried to make it sound more impressive by converting the model to triangles. But 150,000 tri is still more than killzone 40,000 polys. When making a character model you want to keep everything in quads as much as possible and a good flow in wireframe to have a nice rig on a character for animation. So 1 poly turns into 2 polys when you convert it to triangles. So character is in the 75,000 poly range. Tell you the truth with a good artist you probly wouldn't beable to tell the difference between a 40,000 poly character compared to 75,000 poly character. It just comes down to lighting and texturing.
if you want to to go with graphics killzone got it beat by a long run and gameply ryse is like I button sequence battle thing just like heavy rain you don't even really got control of it gay.
Poor Xbosh, they're trying too hard.
In order to see anything you need to pull you head out of your own ass :) Extra benefits off this action you will stop eating your own shit M$
Ok, I don't really care about which console has the best graphics because neither console is going to compare to the quality of graphics that I will get on PC. But I just have to say that the people saying that triangles and polygons aren't the same thing (in this context) don't have ANY idea what they are talking about. A triangle is a 3-sided polygon and it is the type of polygon that essentially all modern game engines use. If you go to wireframe you will see that all the polygons are triangles. http://img40.imageshack.us/... Modelers work with 4-sided polygons called quadrilaterals in modeling software simply because they are easier to model with. But those quadrilaterals are converted to triangles for use in-engine and to be processed by the hardware. "The two common measurements of a game character's 'cost' are polygon count and vertex count. Polygon is interchangeable with triangle in these measurements, as GPUs only see vertices and triangles, not 4+ sided polygons. Depending on the use, a game character may stretch anywhere from 200-300 triangles, to 40,000+ triangles. A high-end third-person console or PC game may use many vertices or triangles per character, and an iOS tower defense game might use very few per character." "When a game artist talks about the poly count of a model, they really mean the triangle count. Games almost always use triangles not polygons because most modern graphic hardware is built to accelerate the rendering of triangles." http://wiki.polycount.com/P... When Crytek refer to "triangles" and Guerrilla refer to "polygons", in practice they are referring to exactly the same thing.
LOL did anyone really think Microsoft was going to praise a game exclusive to Sony's platform? I mean what are we, retarded? Of course they're going to trash Sony, that's all they have left to do! They need to talk their games up, and say no one makes better games. This is a competition here for money, would you talk up your competitors? Of course not!
Forza 5 will have more gameplay than any game released for next gen consoles this year!
@Jokes Yes, there will likely be a disparity in the poly counts as there often are across genres (poly=/=tri, as poly can, though not often in graphic design, mean more than 3 vertices), but polygon counts only go so far. Shaders/effects and mappings are what make the character look better. It's a case of "how you use it," not "how big it is." ;) Also, the Killzone environments look far more ambitious and pretty.
@ CryofSilence See my comment above. We aren't talking about the poly count in a modeling program like ZBrush. We are talking about the poly count within the engine, which is always measured in triangles. Graphics hardware processes triangles. The quadrilaterals that artists use in modeling software are converted to triangles for rendering by the game engine. No developer is going to brag up the poly count used solely in modeling software, since it is a lower number and doesn't represent what is being used within the game engine anyway. Crytek and Guerrilla are both referring to the amount of polygons (triangles) comprising characters within the game. That said, polygon counts are not even close to being the only measure of a game's graphics.
Kryptix lol are you slow I never said I didn't compare them, NO I said I made a comparison for context AFTER others like Shinmaster and Heavy ect ABOVE already did. I think its legit to point out boths technical specs if folks insist on comparing the 2 games. Trollcraft I gave you the links, Read starchild link for more clarification. lol one thing I notice you guys talk alot as if you're engineers but dont back up you claims with creditable links, lol I see more stupid gifs and what not than INFORMATION. I dont pretend to know it all, far from it but I also dont make blind statements thats why I include links for technical or historic info whenever I say something questionable you can bet I at least TRIED to undetstand it through reading(I google every technical subject) instead of expecting folks to take my word for it...because guess what I never ever take members word on n4g as fact, I prefer to read up for myself so this is why I just dismiss rants like yours talking tech with no links.
lol @Microsofy acting cocky all of a sudden when they finally actually have exclusives! that's so cute. have you been steadily releasing exclusives after exclusives all these years? what happened to "exclusives don't matter", Microsoft? The hypocricy is strong here.
@shinmaster in it's current state the gameplay is most likely pre-alpha, so frame rate jaggies are obvious :)
When turning your demoreel to video games, they want the poly count in quads of your 3D model. Not the count in triangles. So I just expected when they refered to 40,000 polys that is in quads. But it can be tricky because doesn't matter if its in tries or quads its still 1 poly.
Go home dude, your drunk.
@JokesOnYou "Kryptix lol are you slow I never said I didn't compare them, NO I said I made a comparison for context AFTER others like Shinmaster and Heavy ect ABOVE already did. I think its legit to point out boths technical specs if folks insist on comparing the 2 games." Actually, you got it all wrong. The posters before you were talking about an overall experience and in order it would be; presentation, game play, frames per second/smoothness, and even some of them say that graphics on both consoles are almost similar. I was stating how you were the first one that brought up Ryse and compared the main character to a Killzone: Shadowfall NPC with the number of polygons for each one. Then all the comments came in about polygons and your misinformation which prompted you to cry out the defensive, "Yes I compared them only AFTER folks above me already did," but the topic of discussion that you created was the unfair comparison between the two. I guess for you, just stating only the graphics of Ryse just says how dull the game really is for everything else. You should try debunking what people say unless it's fact. Gameplay can be opinion but when there's many accounts that it's a little or really stale when there hasn't been any complaints for any other game...then that should be taken into consideration that the game might actually be dull till the game releases to see if they changed it. From what I seen, there's a some glitches with the combat that needs to be worked out, more than any other game I seen for next gen. My, "PS4 being more powerful than the Xbox One" section of my last post is only there because you keep declaring facts as opinion. Fact is that with all the specs details released and what we know so far, the PS4 is a more powerful console overall. Which explains why Killzone: Shadowfall can do locked 30fps and can go 60fps in certain areas of the single and multiplayer. All I read and see about the Xbox One exclusives performance wise is that Ryse sometimes drops under 30fps and Dead Rising 3 had problems getting a constant 30fps. http://www.mcvuk.com/news/r...
@Jokes Using the number of polys/triangles is hardly getting at the "very technical level" of anything. There is a hell of a lot more that goes into displaying a character model than the number of polys. If you want to get technical explain how texture maps and lighting will be used to make the number of polygons rather pointless, or just explain to us what an LOD is...I know, but wonder if you do. You're comparing apples to oranges, so really, just stop. If you want to make the comparison, tell us how many polys(or triangles) are making up all those LOD NPC's or baddies in Ryse. It doesn't appear to be any more than the ones in KZ:SF, and they are actually rather generic compared to the main character. In gaming, the general rule is that polygon counts refer to triangles. triangles are the simplest way to make complex geometry, however the actual model is usually modeled in quads(rectangles), and then split by the engine at compile, or sometimes by the artist if it's required to insure mesh effects are working properly. Quads are generally easier to actual model by the artist. Generally you don't want to have more than a quad, because it can give unexpected results when it tries to convert to a triangle, which can give you wierd texture/mesh effects, whereas a two triangles make up a quad.
The Execs at Microsoft need to take a good look at the Ryse gameplay videos. I don't think they're seeing what we're seeing.
OMG all of you, wtf, poly= multi, gon = sides WTF are all u talking about, poly=2 or more, when an engine is being talked about the polycount is in triangles. NO STUPID ARGUMENT. ITS A FACT. wtf, ALL realtime graphics engines convert quads, which are 2 polys to triangles. also there is no such thing as a "Quad" they are all triangles, unless you are talking about nurbs modeling. WHICH YOU ARE NOT, nurbs is mathematical surface modeling used in industry, for real production of real products, for example when the ps4 was designed it was designed by a class A surface certified modeler, (non videogame) No product today is made with a polygon surface model, as you cannot apply a shader to a real world object, the shape has to be fully realized mathematically for molds to be created, something tris do not do. nurbs modeling is completed using PATCHES not polygon meshes. open edges and multi >3 sided n-gons are a bitch to render realtime and are the reason game engines only take quads, which are 2 tris stuck together. a 5 sided poly will never be seen in a videogame as most shading methods have trouble with interpolating surfaces that have verteces that run out of parallel to the normal. which results in shading artifacts and just basically breaks the shader. I will prepare a series of examples.
1. This Is a box, made of 6 sides, 6 "quads" as I said before Quads are 2 tri polys stuck together notice the poly count I have enabled in the viewport says 12 polys. 1 quad = 2 polys http://gyazo.com/07bb18867c... 2. I have enabled showing of the polys in the viewport in this shot, notice they are all triangles quadsa are much easier to work with. http://gyazo.com/7586d82551... 3. This is a sphere built with polys http://gyazo.com/32954601ef... 4. This is what a real world object surface like the ps3 would look like if designed with polygons/in quads without a proper shader to blend the normals. http://gyazo.com/109d6c6ad1... 5. This is a teapot modeled in polys with shading to blur the edges to give a clean shade. notice the edges http://gyazo.com/1ec9151d05... 6. this is that same teapot rendered in nurbs/ or patches notice how the edges are now smooth http://gyazo.com/5256a45cf0... 7. this is what you say kz shadowfall has... >3 sided polygons, that due to fanboy logic are somehow more than just triangles. http://gyazo.com/82a00903a6... 8. This is what game engines turn those superpolys lol. into http://gyazo.com/a19bfcd286... 9. this is why >3 sided polys are not used. because when you try to model with them.. (the verts.) A http://gyazo.com/0437ac609d... It breaks the g($%*#AMN shader B http://gyazo.com/e6fb4ee5dc... Therefore , All game devs when talking about polycount are talking about F$*#&G triangles. you guys talk SO MUCH when you know so little. WTF.
Ryse runs at 23-25 fps... Seriously that's garbage for a next gen game.... http://www.youtube.com/watc...