MMGN.com writes: You may have taken sides in the Xbox One v PS4 'console war', but the two consoles have more in common than you think, at least from a game development perspective.
Yup and the performance gap many are expecting will not be there http://semiaccurate.com/201... 150 gps for bad code written on Xbox One compared to the Ps4's 176 gps But with good coding 204 gigs for Xbox One And we still don't know about the additional 7 co processors in the gpu block And yes 204 because Ms says the eSRAM can read and write instructions simultaneously
Oh-uh this wont end well.
This won't end well indeed... @thetruthx1 "Yup and the performance gap many are expecting will not be there" And yet, most if not all multiplatform games have been shown on either PC, or PS4 ... There's a reason for that...lol...
I am a huge xbox fan but i don't believe xbox will hit the 201gbps because that is theoretical and even with the best code and driver upgrades it can't reach that from what i understand. However the bull**** ppl spread about xbox haveing 68 gbps or 100 is BS. Realistically i undertstand it is in the 140 gb for bad code and 150 for good code at this point and with driver and tool upgrades in the future that number may rise and match sony's 176 at best but who know it is possible to surpass it time will tell.
"And yes 204 because Ms says the eSRAM can read and write instructions simultaneously" that number is theoretical, and has been stated as such several times.
The expert says even if you try to hit minimal you can't so worse case is 140 gps which the difference on screen won't do much for the naked eye And this is before the co processors and what optimization AMD made to the units
Truth- From the article you posted: "To translate from technical minutia to English, good code = 204GBps, bad code = 109GBps, and reality is somewhere in between. Even if you try there is almost no way to hit the bare minimum or peak numbers. Microsoft sources SemiAccurate talked to say real world code, the early stuff that is out there anyway, is in the 140-150GBps range, about what you would expect. " In case you're impatient: The reality is somewhere in between (109 and 204) "There is almost no way to hit the bare minimum OR PEAK NUMBERS." (emphasis mine) "Microsoft sources SemiAccurate talked to say real world code, the early stuff that is out there anyway, is in the 140-150GBps range, about what you would expect. " In short: You've been selectively reading and cherry picking only to turn around and regurgitate nonsense to equally delusional MS fans. Just stop, you're console is in second place in terms of power. Deal with it.
all numbers are theoretical for any hardware unless it is a benchmark even then...
Just because you have many things in common does not mean you were created equal...Not that it matters...Just sayin!
thetruthx1 - Your talking out your arse. X1 - Won't come close to 200GPS, thats complete bull. You have more hoops to jump thru cos of MS overly complicated design. What 7 co-processors?, thats complete bull, made up crap. X1 - Less/slower DDR3 ram available for games you should be more bothered about. PS4 - Will hit the 176GPS easily cos of the simplified and effient design. PS4 - Can bypass cache memory for direct access to memory pool for CPU/GPU/APU Ps4 - Has more/faster GDDR5 ram available for games. LOL at the disagrees, bots think you just add bandwidths up amd get bull speeds of 200GPS. You f#ckin numbnuts, get real eSRAM is 32Mb in size. So code has to be chopped up(like I said another hoop to jump thru). You'd be pushing it to get 100GPS with it's poor overly complicated design. 4>1 X1 - should be renamed PAYBOX, it's a PAY WALLED CABLE BOX......LOL
You are wrong... Just because the Xbox One didn't go the "traditional" route when it comes to coding for the Xbox One, doesn't make it complicated. It's still worlds easier to code for the Xbox One, than it is for the PS3 & 360. Most developers code for Direct-X which gives Microsoft an advantage (as far as performance goes at least). PS4 should have the upper hand in visuals (on paper the PS4 just has the raw horse power), but that will all depend on the SDK Sony gave to developers. 15 special purpose co-processors” not counting the CPUs and GPUs, eight of which are audio http://semiaccurate.com/201...
@ShowanW, Yeah, and it's been reiterated over and over by multiplat devs that the PS4 dev tools are way more mature than Xbone's dev environment right now. So Xbone is playing catchup with the SDKs and even with DX. DirectX 11.2 with it's "Tiled Resources" is them catching up to PS4's APIs which already supported Hardware accelerated Megatextures. Both systems have an AMD APU that allows it with the Graphics Core Next. PS4 implemented it earlier though, and Microsoft tried to make it look like they came out with something totally new with DX 11.2's "Tiled Resources". So even though MS is usually better on the software dev side, Sony wasn't playing this time around and got a really early headstart.
Ow it won't come close to 200gps? Woah so I guess all those super smart guys at hot chips who explained how it works and gave actual numbers are dumb compared to you o'mighty djmarty the sony scientist. Seriously, it just makes me laugh when people like you read few articles on internet and "think" they actually understand and are o so smarter than everyone else in the world. You are sad little person. Ow and calling people"bots" just adds the credibility to your posts. /s
Dont say such things man ... Quick, add a compliment about GDDR5 before this gets out of hand !
"@theWB27 Great analogy. I actually dont mind their overhyping because once this gen kicks off they will be having smack after smack in the face when they see that the gap is as big as this gen: almost non existant. I mean remember when the PS3 launched ? All that "power of the cell" crap talk was off the wall. It was hyped like no tomorrow. At the end of the day, after 7 years you have 2 or 3 exclusives that stand out compared to 360 exclusives. With all that hype and chit chatter from Sony and its minions one would think the difference would be bigger dontyathink ?" Yes...and being that I owned a PS3 this whole gen along with my 360...there weren't many times where I felt like I was playing something the 360 couldn't do. The games that did do that came from ND and SSM. Metal Gear Solid was just too BIG of a game to fit on discs...Kojima never stated the 360 couldn't handle it.
Dude no, sorry just no. Ps4's 176gb/s isn't theoretical like esRAM. http://www.extremetech.com/... "First, there’s the fact that while we’ve been calling this a 32MB ESRAM cache, Microsoft is representing it as a series of four 8MB caches. Bandwidth to this cache is apparently 109GB/s “minimum” but up to 204GB/s. The math on this is… odd."
This is the running theme nowadays. Those expecting a huge gap in graphics will be disappointed. Both will go back and forth with groundbreaking, great looking games.
You do know you cant say these type of things on N4G.COM...Unless you want to lose more bubbles and get banned? Just go with the flow and say Sony is best and let the bubbles rain from heaven :-P
I don't know...I go against the grain pretty much constantly and I do pretty good. With that said...people thinking the PS4 is going to be a generation ahead are going to be in for a rude awakening. I'll repost what I think about power... Bugattii- 1000 horsepower 270mph 0-60 2 seconds Nurburgring- 7:40 mins Top Gear- 1:16 mins Nissan GT-R-Stats- 480HP 193mph 0-60 3.2 seconds Nurburgring- 7:24 mins Top Gear- 1:17 mins Game design isn't a straight line. Sony boys like to tease about da powerz of da cloudz When they spout GDDDr45 89 like it's the second coming...
@theWB27 Great analogy. I actually dont mind their overhyping because once this gen kicks off they will be having smack after smack in the face when they see that the gap is as big as this gen: almost non existant. I mean remember when the PS3 launched ? All that "power of the cell" crap talk was off the wall. It was hyped like no tomorrow. At the end of the day, after 7 years you have 2 or 3 exclusives that stand out compared to 360 exclusives. With all that hype and chit chatter from Sony and its minions one would think the difference would be bigger dontyathink ?
Bubble for you!!!!
WB27- What an awful analogy. The difference in track time is due to weight, center of gravity, gearing, downforce numbers/requirements and electronics differences. Either you don't know how to set up a proper analogue or you don't know a damn thing about tech or cars. I suspect it's all of the above. But, if you'd like someone to play along, all I can say is that PS4 is not only the most powerful, but also the most agile. That is to say, the architecture is much more efficient. Being able to invalidate lines and adding more cues helps quite a lot, as does the extra Onion+ pipe, of which the X1 has nothing similar. Add in the extra compute units, ROPS, texture units, shaders and a truly unified pool of memory, and the PS4 will be busy fighting for pole while the X1 will be trying desperately not to run afoul of the 107% rule. Edit: It appears as though there is at least one more person in this thread as clueless as you. Welcome to WB's party, SuperLupe.
You can honestly pick out who struggled in public school just by looking at this thread. This guy really just compared car dynamics to game development and someone actual agrees with him. The ignorance here is just disgusting.
@ the truth Its so obvious that you dont know what the hell you're talking about and are nothing more than a overzealous fanboy. When he talks about "having more in common on a high level". He's talking about the fact that the two consoles both have the same x86-64 AMD Jaguar CPU and both have a AMD GPU (but with varying performance). So he's talking about how that makes it easier to port the game from PC to PS4 to X1. He's not talking about their performance. And he's talking about when coding on a high level, like DX (which btw, PS4 can do DX11.1+ with system specific enhancements), or OpenGL (which X1 doesnt do). But if you wanna get down closer to the metal, than you rely on low level coding, that's where the real performance is. And Sony has custom to the metal low level API's. Besides knowing these 3rd parties, they are probably coding to the lowest common denominator (which is the X1), which I bet you is why BF4 is having a hard time running at 1080p. The PS4 is far more capable of hitting 1080 on BF4 than X1 is. Also, the X1 architecture is more complicated than the PS4's which makes it harder to code for. Trying to figure out what can and cant be ran through the small pool of Esram, just to match the bandwidth performance of the PS4, is going to be much harder for developers. Also, the 204GB/s number is just a theoretical number that can only be hit when doing certain algorithms that arent so common to gaming. So good luck to them with that. Pure marketing bs if you ask me. And why would MS make a consoles that has to rely on all these other makeshift chips just to try and perform close to a PS4? why not just make it simpler like the PS4? MS messed up bad and made some truly strange choices here. And to all the MS fanboys talking crap about how N4G is a Sony fanboy haven, explain to me why all the MS fanboys have alot more agrees than disagrees? Do the math
Somebody is on that good cush and alcohol.
Well said my good man. +Bubbles.
Am i the only noticing that almost the majority of multiplatform games are being shown on the PS4 where the xone version is either non existent or running on pc with some xone exclusives actually being shown on the console. but the xbox fans are trying to say the PS4 isn't dev friendly the delusion is ridiculous on their side.
Well said to you as well Xsilver. +Bubbles.
DirectX 11.2 will be exclusive to Windows 8.1 and Xbox One http://www.vg247.com/2013/0... PS4 uses OpenGL, and that is all they use. They try to borrow a lot of DirectX "features" Now on paper the PS4 is the more powerful system.. But tapping the PS4's 'juice' is dependent on the SDK Given to developers. If Sony nailed the SDK's, the PS4 is going to shine. But if it's just a bare bones SDK, it will take 3-4 years to see the results... And the Xbox One isn't hard to code for... Why because they don't use the traditional code for PC model. People really got it wrong when it comes to "Hard to Code for".. The Xbox One is way easier to code for than the 360 & PS3 so there you go. And if the Xbox hardware is the least common denominator, why do all games perform better on the least common denominator? That's a dumb thing for people to say. If Skyrim plays flawlessly on the 360 but barley able to work on the PS3, then how is the 360 the least common denominator? Now, I have a PS3 (and I love it), but, in all honesty it was the least common denominator for 3rd Party developers. The PS3 was its own worst enemy... The power was there that's a given. But for all the power of the Cell... It was presented with self inflicted road blocks (memory structure or lack of memory in general) The Xbox One isn't hard to code for, it is actually over loaded with options, that developers can take advantage of.
Slow down...It's only a console LOL
I love how you're trying to school me on sh!t that i already know. The PS4 SDK has DX11+1 extended, the SDK uses Windows 7 and Visual Studio 10/12. They also support OpenGL 4.4 and a low level API that's not quite at the driver level yet. And dont hold me to this one but they may also have a down to the metal/assembly level API. So i dont think developers have to worry about the PS4's SDK, cuz they have more choices on the PS4 than they do on X1. Also for all you fanboys, praising tiled resources. AMD has had a extension for it for over a year now on OpenGL and MS's DX11.2 while isnt even out yet. Its called Partially Resident Textures (aka AMD_sparse_textures). And MS copied the feature from OpenGL and is adding it to DX11.2 (which btw is the only real improvement to DX11.1). The only reason why devs didnt use it on the PC is because it was exclusive to AMD GPUs and OpenGL. But now with both consoles using AMD GPUs and CPUs, that wont be a problem. Btw the feature is better/more powerful on AMD/OpenGL. Heck even Nvidia has a equivalent on CUDA. so its nothing new or that special, its just MS hyping crap up, it basically mega textures, you know the stuff Carmack has been sweating for years now, so its nothing new. So yeah, MS aint got nothing on PS4 when it comes to its SDK. And developers have already come out and said that the PS4 SDK is better than MS's. And p.s. anyway you cut it the X1 will be harder to code for, unless they do something special with their SDK's and Sony doesnt. Here are some links http://arstechnica.com/gami... http://gematsu.com/2013/03/... And DX holds back PC performance btw http://www.tomshardware.com... http://www.bit-tech.net/har... http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
bubble up sir.
First of all, the "expert" you quoted likes to make special note of inconsequential matters. The "wideness" of the eSRAM is a weird thing to mention if you fancy yourself an expert. Also, the eSRAM is not a cache, but a pixelbuffer. This is necessary to maintain rendering performance. The author at least knows this much as doesn't try to tout this as a breakthrough. The most important thing to remember, is that even if X1 manages to equal PS4 in terms of bandwidth, it still has a much weaker GPU (1.3 will never beat 1.8 via bandwidth improvements) that is capable of doing far less at once (fewer ROPS, shaders, and texture units), and will never come close to equalling the GPGPU capabilities of PS4. Also, X1 is lacking an Onion+ pipe. Selectively invalidating lines and having more queues will remain PS4 only tech in the console world. But hey, keep cherry picking info to help yourself sleep at night.
"WB27- What an awful analogy. The difference in track time is due to weight, center of gravity, gearing, downforce numbers/requirements and electronics differences. Either you don't know how to set up a proper analogue or you don't know a damn thing about tech or cars. I suspect it's all of the above. But, if you'd like someone to play along, all I can say is that PS4 is not only the most powerful, but also the most agile. That is to say, the architecture is much more efficient. Being able to invalidate lines and adding more cues helps quite a lot, as does the extra Onion+ pipe, of which the X1 has nothing similar. Add in the extra compute units, ROPS, texture units, shaders and a truly unified pool of memory, and the PS4 will be busy fighting for pole while the X1 will be trying desperately not to run afoul of the 107% rule. Edit: It appears as though there is at least one more person in this thread as clueless as you. Welcome to WB's party, SuperLupe." You're right. Cause the PS3 was leagues ahead of the 360 too. But we see how far that goes. It's not my fault you don't get analogies. Everything you just mentioned can be applied in gaming. I won't waste time trying to break it down for you cause no matter how layman I make it, you'll choose to not see it since your a Sony guy. The games I see from the X1 are on par with the PS4 and also it's receiving the same 3rd party games as the PS4. Nothing is being dumbed down or taken to compensate for the X1. So....there ya go.
@jp... Blah blah blah... show me the games that look that much better. Right now games that are getting praise seem to be Ryse, KZ and Forza...
What you have mentioned is true.. But this only effects graphics, not performance.., So results can be mixed. Such as Elder Scrolls PS4: better graphics. Ok performance. Elder Scrolls X1: Good graphics. Plays smoother, better performance Metal Gear PS4: better graphics and better performance... Metal Gear X1: good graphics, good performance... All performance/graphics will always depend on what developers are given to work with. Some can make miracles out of nothing, don't get me wrong. Both consoles, will be amazing
Jesus, you can't even see the fault in your analogy even though I spelled it out. Your analogy made the point that the most powerful machine wouldn't always be the best performing. I first showed how your lack of motorsport knowledge made it inaccurate, then followed up with technical facts about the consoles to further highlight your lack of understanding on the subject. It's not my fault your reading comprehension skills are as bad as your ability to use logic. Gods - We're talking launch games and won't have any concrete answers until the first wave of games using complete devs kits come out. I can remember PS2 launch titles comparing unfavorably to Dreamcast launch games too, and the PS2 turned out to be a much better system in nearly all aspects. As far as launch titles go though, Forza is the only X1 game that looks really good. Ryse looked horrible at GC and PAX, and even at E3 showed some really bad model and animation work on antagonistic characters. Back to Forza, the lack of dynamic lighting means the game has to do a lot less work than Driveclub to get the look it does. Even so, DC has much better trackside detail and density, while the lighting is fully dynamic and leagues ahead in application. Not only this, but Evo are still shooting for 60 frames, while Turn 10 hasn't mentioned anything about updating their baked lighting and faked reflections. Whatever the case, racing games are usually some of the easiest to make pretty so it isn't too surprising to see someone getting one to work at 1080P/60, even though it does resort to faking its effects. Killzone is the only game outside that genre doing 1080P/60 and it looks much better than anything out there on consoles. Showan - More power means the PS4 can put out better graphics while performing better as well. I can see how you might be confused, since devs often have to balance one against the other, but that isn't the case when you're comparing hardware performance. More power = better everything in the same game environment. The most important thing you all seem to have missed is that the PS3 wasn't better than the 360 is all areas. In fact, it was weaker in most. The Box had better memory access, as well as more bandwidth and a better GPU. The PS3 made up for all of this with the SPUs in the CELL. With PS4 and One it's a completely different situation, as the PS4 is better in nearly every area, with the CPU being a wash. A more efficient memory system, better architecture for GPU and CPU communication using shared memory, and an overall much better GPU are the difference here. This is why WB's analogy was so terrible. It would have actually been a little better to help compare PS360. It this instance though, it's nothing more than evidence of a dim mind.
Well said JP.. There are no reasonable responses yet, and yes i don't know why people keep on using cars as an analogy ha, pathetic. bub+
The Xbox One is a beast..Optimization will prove it.
If X1 is a beast, then the PS4 is what a beast would call a beast. This is all fake btw, source is a crackpot
Blah Blah Blah, their copy-paste engine takes no advantage of additional power so this claim is bs coming from Dice. Just saying, they're similar but not identical.
=O u don't say? A multiplat dev saying that? Oh my I never would have believed it if he had not said something /s
Yes, that's exactly who you should believe, since, you know, they work with all the consoles and not an exclusive developer who has access to only one machine. Analyze things better next time, it helps with logic!!!
1. Relax 2. I was being sarcastic 3. I already know the consoles are similar 4. Relax. Seriously.
Sorry dude, totally missed the /s. Again sorry :(
Good to hear that both are great consoles and will both feature 64 players and 60fps.
LOl how do you only have 3 bubbles? here ill fix that + 1 :D.
Weird how someone not paid by either console directly is saying that they are both great consoles....
It will probably end up just like this gen where multiplats looks on par with each other but Sony Exclusives stand out. Either way I will eventually own both consoles.... for the games
yeah, they are both great systems, just not great enough for 1080p though, something pc's were doing in 2003
Seriously if they can't do 1080p then whats the point? In five years your tablet will doing BF 4 at full 1080p. Sony and MS better get their act together and enforce this baseline.
You guys need to remember this are launch titles. I'm pretty sure games performance will increase as developer learn more about each console architecture.
Sony had a few 1080 games on PS3 and is touting killzone shadowfall at 1080p 60fps while microsoft is showing off interior versions of multiplats while using superior PCs.
alot of 1st and 2nd year multiplatform games will look similiar but you will see the Ps4 start to pull away from the xbox one in the future!
I like to welcome all the N4G developers to the thread.
Yes indeed....Ignorance is bliss and being a blind fanboy on either side (mainly sony) is the norm on N4G !!! All these armchair experts are entertaining though!!!
People act like the difference is HUGE like its ps4 vs Atari 2600 & not an Xbox 1 smh...
Yeah if anything is said good about the x1 is shot down instantly by the Sony boys
so let me get this straight you guys expect a multiplatform developer to come out and say one console is completely shit yeah ok. that would discourage sales for that particular console.
I'm sure GG or ND coming out and saying this would add validity? Especially since 1st party studios don't work on the other platform. We definitely know they don't have an X1 to look at either since they aren't on the market. Who else should we look to? Carmack stated the same exact thing. From the legend himself "It's almost amazing how close they are in capabilities, how common they are," Seriously, what are you expecting from the PS4? Do you seriously think it's some high end PC that'll keep up for another 3 years? It's not...it's not. Stop dreaming. EDIT- The most unbiased view you'll get is from a multiplatform dev. How do we know if a system is too weak? Look at the support the WiiU is receiving. So yes, we expect to get a more unbiased view from a third party dev.
did i say any of that i mean seriously im just saying that u will see the difference in multiplatform games where the PS4 has been the main console i see them running on. all i know is that allot of devs are saying how fast they get their games running on PS4 but no talk of xone why is that.
But naughty dog and killzone developers proved them self and most other Sony developers. I mean second son looks amazing, killzone sf online is amazing
I've heard it all now. Delusional Bots - 'BUT WHAT ABOUT CLOUD POWER'...............LOL You can only do certain things in the CLOUD, cos of LAG accessing/retrieving data. Also PS4/Paybox 1 & even Wii U use cloud.
PEOPLE KEEP FORGETTING THE XBOX ONE SUPPORTS DIRECTX 11.1+ ALL OF THESE GAME ARE OPTIMIZED FOR DIRECT X ALMOST ALL HIGH END ENGINE ARE OPTIMIZED FOR DIRECT X IN ADVANGETE WHILE PS4 USES OPEN GL
@darkangel360 - You also forget that Sony allows closer to the metal coding on PS4 via an low level API. Bubbles Plz anyone:)
Lmao at these comments. Sony and MS fanboys are Young and the Restless cast members.
lol, well said.. bubble up
i hope what these two consoles will be remembered for the most is that they offered good games, period.