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Xbox One SoC rivals AMD's Tahiti for size, complexity

We've known the outlines of the Xbox One's AMD-designed SoC for a while now, including its eight Jaguar CPU cores and GCN-class integrated graphics. One of the primary revelations to come out of Hot Chips is the SoC's sheer size: the thing is 363 mm² and is comprised of roughly 5 billion transistors; it's produced at TSMC on a 28-nm HPM process.

To give you a sense of scope, the Tahiti GPU that powers the Radeon HD 7970 is also produced on a 28-nm process at TSMC, and Tahiti packs 4.3 billion transistors into 365 mm²—so the two chips are quite comparable in size.

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NextGen24Gamer1453d ago (Edited 1453d ago )

More and more info and tech analysts keeps coming out about the custom cpu in the xbox one. On top of that, there will be some info within the next few days about the xbox one's gpu & custom chips. There is one console that has been surprising developers who have actually worked on it and not just from looking at the original specs announced months ago. Microsoft has been vague for a reason. Here is a quote from an insider and a link to where it was quoted from. I suggest reading the info contained in the link as it directly pertains to the extent that MS has gone to customize their console.

Quote:

"Insider: The x1 is more powerful.. and it supports games at 2k and full upscale to 4k some games will support 4k later.. ill let you do the maths :)

I will follow up... Any body with a thought in technology and gpu specifications. Will tell you there is no way on earth that a sub low end gpu with 748 shader cores. Is going to be doing any type of justice to a ten year plan. Not only that it couldnt even manage 16 players @ 720p 30fps in bf4. Every part of x1 is a custom silicon. A 100 million dollar budget for the control.. lol fanboys are delusional at this point in time... :)

Misterx: Well, thank you a lot for the info! We should wait more for NDA to expire.
Insider:Yes I would suggest everybody wait.. Hotchips will go into some parts about the silicon. Apu. Oban. And kinect.. there really is more stuff going on.. as kinect has two chips. Then their is Apu+dgpu and the dsp for video and audio. We should get clock speeds and what cpu core specs. and what is modified and why. :)"

http://misterxmedia.livejou...

If you read the link thoroughly, it basically eludes to something that I heard first hand months ago. The custom GPU in the xbox one is actually a dual gpu....Which MS will reveal soon.

Now go ahead and get your popcorn out!!!!!

Dragonborn3121453d ago (Edited 1453d ago )

I wish I knew more about tech specs. Thanks for the detailed post Elite24Gamer, despite the fact that I do not understand it all it is still very interesting.

XB1_PS41452d ago (Edited 1452d ago )

Specs right now seem like they're switching up at every turn for MS. I honestly don't know what to expect.

@Elite24Gamer That link you provided has some of the best reading I've done since reveal.

Sheesh, this is a very surprising quote. I don't know who this Misterx is, but throughout that link he seems to know a lot about hardware.

"Misterx: Xbox One will be the better console at the end even in specs. It already has better looking games. Enjoy the drama Microsoft created for their self. They cannot loose so fast and simple with such a man and money power."

black0o1452d ago (Edited 1452d ago )

@Elite do u understand the difference between 1k,2k and 4k go and google it
after that if u some how believed that x1 will run games at 2k u need some serious help

and one last thing do u know that dev already played with the x1 right and it's so clear that ps4 has more GPU POWER by 40% not taking the GDDR in the count

FACTS ARE FACTS .. and if MS had a stronger GPU that 'd been the intro of the revel E3/GC they want to sell the product why hid one important selling point

and the guy who wrote that is die hard xbot really "x1 games looks better" dude go play some KZ :P

XB1_PS41452d ago

@black0o If you read what the link says, it's not all about the Apu. Yes the numbers solely based on APU are stacked to Sony. I'm just wondering what the hell is going on inside of that massive chip. 5 billion transistors can hide a lot.

creatchee1452d ago

@black0o

"FACTS ARE FACTS .. and if MS had a stronger GPU that 'd been the intro of the revel E3/GC they want to sell the product why hid one important selling point"

You know, a generation ago, I would agree with you. But Microsoft has been employing a bizarre take on The Art of War in their next-gen strategy. I think that they realized that Sony would be releasing at the same time that they would, and have gone to some obscene lengths to get them to show their hand.

People want to say that Microsoft is lost or doesn't know what they want or whatever. However, and I say this only as a theory and nothing more, what if they knew what they were doing the whole time? The DRM, the 180's, the TV TV TV, the indies etc - what if this was some ploy along the lines of Coke 2 back in the 80's?

They could call the negative outcry and preorder differential a lost battle in a much larger war. Enhance confidence in their enemy only to strike them down when they least expect it. There are two main things left that Sony has the apparent upper hand on - specs and price. If the One actually is more powerful than expected and can trump the PS4 in that department, the price becomes less of an issue and buyers then have to consider the bonuses that One provides (hate to say it, but Kinect, TV, NFL, apps, swapping etc). And I don't mean just initial buyers - I mean for the next ten years.

Of course this is all conjecture and could be nothing at all. Either way, things keep getting more interesting every day until the launches!

black0o1452d ago (Edited 1452d ago )

@sofresh412 i'm wondering the same then with the 47MB as cash memory and 32MB eSDRAM and a cpu/gpu that's already too many parts and i guess that's why the size is so big

@creatchee ppl lost their jobs star with Adam O. all the way to top
so u r telling me that MS loosing ground for bigger plan this isnt a movie OK. investor will losing money and ppl love to spread bad news faster then the good news .. and finally a lot of 3rd-parties already said that ps4 is more powerful by 40% after the 6% increase in x1's gpu

edit:
so far i only owned PlayStation consoles, but if MS pulled out a 4-5 TF GPU i'd cancel the ps4 at that moment.

look at it this way ''some write this on the site''
PS4 has GPU V8 + GDDR turbo charge + custom GPGPU
X1 has GPU v6 + esdram super charger + custom ?? + 47MB of cash

in term of pure power PS4 has the lead but in term of efficiency X1 has the lead

creatchee1452d ago (Edited 1452d ago )

@black0o

I agree, it's a ludicrous idea, but business sometimes makes no sense at all. The DRM thing may have been planned and backed off of as a consequence of a larger plan - I don't know.

The 40% figure doesn't tell the whole story though. It doesn't take into account custom chips and architecture. I would also argue that that value is merely a number based off of what is currently known. Unfortunately, there is plenty we don't know and won't know until every specification is identified in both consoles - not just the APU and GPU numbers.

HammadTheBeast1452d ago

Just in regards to this article, people have 0 clue about what they're talking about, both pro and against MS.

Basically this is confirming the leaked specs/rumors, not much new, except for details.

PS4 is a bit more powerful, difference on multi-plats will be marginal, however, first parties will be more noticeable.

Remember, I condensed this for the low techy-techy peeps here.

Any questions, just ask.

PFFT1452d ago

RYSE: SON OF ROME!

"The action in the shots included custom keyed Archer volleys, Catapult explosions with Units getting blown up. Battle formations, custom Prop keyed animation, Camera Animation including Depth of Field to guide the viewers eye. Particle Effect creation, modification, & improvement for such things like birds flocking, flaming arrows, & explosions; scene lighting changes, additions, & lighting caused by effects. I also rendered all of the scenes at 2k res @ 60fps."

The shots Eric Ruskoski spoke of will be used for Marketing purposes on September 2013.

pyramidshead1452d ago (Edited 1452d ago )

@elite24gamer

Take that site with a massive ocean load of salt down your dehydrated throat man. This is a list of what that site and his cronies have predicted previously, even as recently at Hot Chips symposium and got wrong:
Things that they predicted:

3 different socs/apus
3 different gpus
ray tracing chip
hybrid memory cube
ddr4 ram
10tflop console
Paid AMD billions and billions to get superior secret architecture
"Insider: Sorry but ms did not give AMD billions.. You are miss informed"
Oh yeah and my favourite:
the kaveri CPU chip everyone was banging on about ;)

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 1452d ago
M-M1452d ago

Well, no one said that the Xbox One was weak. I would explain, but I don't want to have to repeat myself.

n4rc1452d ago

Where have you been?

Clearly not reading the posts here at n4g... Lol.. I've heard that comment made a hundred times by the Sony faithful.

Now the backtracking is in full swing...and its hilarious to watch quite frankly

DonFreezer1452d ago

What?And all the bullcrup from the ps techies about rops , compute units and teraflops?

malokevi1452d ago

As gamers, we've all got a whole ton of great things ahead of us. I'm happy to say that it feels like I'm a 7 year old on Christmas.

Having trouble focusing on my life.

😁

HammadTheBeast1452d ago

2 whole months ahead unfortunately :(

Oh well, GTA V to hold me off until November.

Sonysexual1452d ago

The Xbox ONE has been surprising developers, but not for the right reasons.

Not only are the specs abysmal, the architecture is more complex and inefficient compared to SONY's elegant solution. The size of the Xbox ONE's APU is due to the near 2 billion transistor eSRAM.
Furthermore, the current SDK environment is a disaster, with the latest update dropping performance by ~20%.

Sonysexual1452d ago

LOL... Look at all the disagrees from the Xbox camp.
There's a reason all 3rd parties, even ones with exclusive deals with Microsoft (Battlefield 4), are showing the PS4 version and not the Xbox ONE version.
It's because the PS4 version is superior.

Belking1452d ago

You are one delusional fellow...lol

akaFullMetal1452d ago

Belking you're one to talk...

NextGen24Gamer1452d ago (Edited 1452d ago )

Did you even click the link in my comment? It is basically stating that the custom cpu that everyone is just recently learning about, is the tip of the iceburg. Within the next week, MS will reveal info about their custom APU & DGPU... Up to this point MS has been hush for multiple reasons explained in the link.

With the Xbox Ones CPU, APU & DGPU, it would easily push well over 1.8 TFLOPS. More like 4 to 5 TFLOPS.

What we know is this. The xbox One hasn't given any info up till this point about the CPU...and same with the GPU or GPU's. The only thing MS has said since the beginning is that everything in the xbox one is CUSTOM built.

They have purposely not thrown around numbers. And if you read the link, you'll understand why they couldn't.

All I can say is this, anyone who has been bragging about how the ps4 is more powerful is in for a big surprise. I hope that's not the only reason you chose that console. I hope you chose it for the games.

Everyone laughed when MS said early on that their console can do 4k games. Meanwhile Sony said they can't do 4k games but only 4k movies.

So either ...

A. MS was just flat out lying
B. MS knew something about their hardware that everyone didn't know.

You know, like leaving out the fact that it has custom CPU, APU & DGPU.

That's a game changer and if having the most powerful console matters to you!

thetruthx11452d ago

@Sonysexual It's 5 billion transistors altogether and the performance drop was just a rumor and was never proved

Using the different rams as caches is said to help with the bandwidth limitations and therefor giving great graphics performance

I read the article :)

Sonysexual1452d ago

Yeah. MisterXMedia is a known nutjob and a fake.

We have been going on that the GPU is 1.31 TF with the recent upclock. Microsoft confirmed this number at HotChips.

Based on what Microsoft has released so far, I'd put my money on the VGLeaks' documents rather than some anonymous dude who has a LiveJournal page.

JokesOnYou1452d ago

@Sonysexual, where did you get that info?

"SoC's sheer size: the thing is 363 mm² and is comprised of roughly 5 billion transistors; it's produced at TSMC on a 28-nm HPM process.
To give you a sense of scope, the Tahiti GPU that powers the Radeon HD 7970 is also produced on a 28-nm process at TSMC, and Tahiti packs 4.3 billion transistors into 365 mm²—so the two chips are quite comparable in size."

drsfinest721452d ago

your wasting your bubbles lol

bandobacon1452d ago

@Elite24gamer Let me get this straight. You are saying that The XBOX ONE APU is stronger than a GTX 690.

Let that sink in.

5 billion transistors for the whole chip, compared to ~7 billion on the GTX (which btw, is just a graphics card, so no cpu, no caches, no ES ram.) I am pretty sure microsoft would not put that chip in a 500$ console when they could wipe the market for all PC devices.

I personally looked over the hotchip pics they put out. With the amount of busses and caches with the small gpu and mobile cpu Its not surprising that when you add ~ 2 billion transistors for ES ram that the die doubles in size.

I want you to open up paint and circle in red on those photos where the second GPU is. To show the world Microsofts master plan.

Your post gave me cancer.

christocolus1452d ago (Edited 1452d ago )

sonysexual??

christocolus1452d ago

i will ignore your name and just ask you to provide a link to validate your claim.....

DoesUs1452d ago

@Elite...My good god! You sir are a nut job! You can't possibly believe any of that nonsense?! If you knew anything, you wouldn't of typed that. At this point I put you ahead oh Greenpowerz in the "lost it" stakes. The release of the bloody machines can't come quick enough so's to shut the likes of you up. You are in for a shock.....

B-radical1452d ago

I dont think its just xbox fans disagreeing...........your making playstation fans look dumb

richie007bond1452d ago

Lmao at your name, you need to get out more nothing you say can be taken seriously.

FrigidDARKNESS1452d ago (Edited 1452d ago )

For those that still think the x1 is weak its ram cpu and gpu is very powerful. It can do native 4k games as it's competion cant. To give you an idea it takes 2 Nvidia Titans to do a
http://www.polygon.com/2013...