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Killer is Dead and misogyny; how do critics miss the point by this much?

Digitally Downloaded writes: "Just as Lollipop Chainsaw went out of its way to make you feel silly for looking up Juliet's skirt (courtesy of that "pervert" trophy that would subsequently be exposed to your social network), Killer is Dead wants you to feel uncomfortable. Just as the movie Irreversible featured a 15-minute single-take rape scene that was gratuitous because it wanted the audience to feel sick to their stomach, Suda's work here is deliberately nasty and unpleasant. It's not to titillate, it's not to amuse. It's to attack."

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SilentNegotiator1455d ago (Edited 1455d ago )

No matter how much you want to believe that, Suda51 isn't that deep.

And things like Lollipop Chainsaw aren't automatically 100% ironic just because you add a "pervert" trophy. Titillation was ABSOLUTELY a part of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

MattS1455d ago

Hi. I'm the author of this piece.

I have met Suda and he is a very intelligent and reflective artist. One of the best, most insightful conversations I have ever had about games.

You, on the other hand, are making assumptions. Unsurprisingly, you are wrong.

cyguration1455d ago

You are a gaem jurnol1zt with little cred making an anecdotal reference as the cornerstone of your argument, in which you should know it holds little or no weight whatsoever given that your word versus SilentNeogotiator's evidence = diddlysquat.

MattS1455d ago

Except I never said titillation wasn't a part of the game. Titillation was Suda's point. What people fail to understand was that he was criticizing it.

Don't they teach you kids about irony and subversive art in school any longer?

SilentNegotiator1455d ago (Edited 1455d ago )

And I've seen/played his work.
Implementation is more important than the ability to discuss.

"Except I never said titillation wasn't a part of the game. Titillation was Suda's point. What people fail to understand was that he was criticizing it"
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He uses titillation way more for the titillation itself than irony.

Hicken1454d ago

I think Matt has a point, though. If you're not privy to the artist's (in this case, Suda) intentions or general mentality, it's completely possible to misinterpret the meaning of his work. Often, the meaning is colored by prevailing social mentalities.

Sometimes, there just isn't ANY context, like with the Mona Lisa.

But I'm far more inclined to take the word of someone who's got some insight into the artist than someone who doesn't.

And that's not to say you're completely wrong, Silent. In fact, even Matt acknowledges that titillation is a factor. But to assume that it's the ONLY interpretation, that Suda Goichi had no other intentions is presumptuous of you.

Godmars2901455d ago

In light of the atmosphere surrounding the industry because of violence and sexism, how is it not surprising that ironic/sarcastic messages get missed?

spartanlemur1455d ago (Edited 1455d ago )

Because this is the Western media we're talking about XD

spartanlemur1455d ago (Edited 1455d ago )

I never get these critics. If a game promotes moral values you don't agree with, just use it to provoke a debate about the values themselves or ignore it (ie. don't attack the game).
No view is beyond criticism (eg. what if I said misogyny could be a virtue? I don't think it is myself, but I'm interested to hear arguments from those who do) and the internet and media always seem to explode when something fails to indoctrinate people towards their ideology.

Games are perhaps the greatest medium of free speech we have.
Please, let's not let critics ruin the diversity of opinion portrayed. You can disagree with the argument, but absolutely not with the game itself.

Ipunchbabiesforfun1455d ago

Holy moly vocabulary batman! Good post man and I totally agree, it's nice seeing a thought out, well written comment on N4G.

Blacklash931455d ago (Edited 1454d ago )

That's not an impressive vocabulary, at all. I highly wonder if he even knows what "misogyny" means. Or the writer of this article, for that matter.

Misogyny means you hate or dislike women. Are we going to give credit to the ridiculous idea that universally hating or disliking a demographic that amounts to half of the human population is a... virtue of all things? And really, are we suggesting that SUDA51's intention is to promote "moral values"? I mean, c'mon. :/ That doesn't even make sense.

This is for titillation and laughs, nothing more. SUDA obviously is not misogynistic, but I do understand why people find this distasteful. These gigolo missions look shallow, stupid, and completely missing of the point of an action game to make place for TNA. I don't really care about it either way, but I think SUDA should have had better priorities in mind here. Being weird and crazy is only going to carry their games so far.

spartanlemur1454d ago (Edited 1454d ago )

@Blacklash93

I'm fully aware that misogyny means hatred of women. No, I don't think we should give credit to the idea that such a disposition is in any way a virtue, but I'd like to see that argument raised, and I'd like to encourage those who do feel that way to speak their mind through media, no matter how much I may disagree with them.

There is always the possibility that the common consensus of morality is incorrect. If we try to silence people who disagree with the majority then we're taking away the very essence of a free, open society where consensus rules but minorities have the liberty to try and change it.
I agree that critics didn't get KID and with what the article was saying about the game's true intentions. What I utterly disagree with is the writer's final two paragraphs, which only show his intolerance (tolerance is acknowledging the right of alternative views to exist, while acceptance is actually agreeing with them, just to prove I know what I'm talking about).

Essentially, the author believes that SUDA is OK (or even morally good) because it tries to promote the consensus feminist morality using shock tactics. He most certainly implies here that he would be among the vicious critics had the game tried to show a genuinely misogynist viewpoint.
He then goes on to say that sexism exists in the industry and "There are games that feature a very negative portrayal of women indeed, this is undeniable. This is a cultural issue and it needs to be addressed.".
No, companies should not be allowed to pursue sexist employment policies or marginalise females in the workplace. That is a LEGAL issue which has been ruled by the majority to be against the rights of women.
The idea that games which provide a "negative" (alternative) portrayal of women need to be "addressed" (silenced/prevented from being made) is truly abhorrent. There is no justice in seeking to silence voices that disagree with you.
I think games which negatively portray women should be *countered* by games with a positive portrayal. This is how a debate functions. One person speaks and another provides a view to the contrary. To support sealing your opponent's mouth with duct tape before they have a chance to respond to your argument is a undeniable attack on the human right of free speech; such things are indicative of mob rule.

The right to freedom of speech is not absolute (ie. personal attacks).
The right to *civilised* freedom of speech is beyond question.

level 3601454d ago (Edited 1454d ago )

Did anybody check the mature content label before bursting out their tirades of political correctness?

So many pretentious comments here.