Rick Sherlund owns Pachter – ‘Xbox is cool, but Microsoft has not made any Money off this’

Furious Francis from Playeressence talks about Michael Pachter, his inaccuracy as an analyst, and Rick Sherlund's take on Microsoft's income with the Xbox brand.

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iamnsuperman1546d ago (Edited 1546d ago )

What is with the creepy conspiracy theory music....

Also I am not sure what argument you are making in this video. It is the same one point for 10 minutes over and over again. Also when you thought you one upped him by talking about E-shop sales, you completely missed the point. The E-shop did come too late. It should have been around when Sony and Microsoft showed off their stores. That was the point pachter was making. You theory that he is wrong because the store sales are soaring is just mind blowingly stupid. That still doesn't change the fact the store has only come in 2012 and not years ago (when these things were new)

AbortMission1546d ago (Edited 1546d ago )

Dude, playeressence is a Nintendo fanboy website lol that Furious Fanboy clown has been exposed as a fanboy by some guys on YouTube. This is the same guy who claimed Pikmin 3 is a "system seller" and also claimed that 3rd parties are "scared" of Nintendo. They're nothing but extreme pathetic fanboys trying to justify their purchase *cough* Buyers Remorse.

RicardJulianti1546d ago

Right because when Pikmin 3 released it didn't help move Wii U systems.

Try harder.

chadboban1546d ago

So then... what are you exactly? Every time I see you in the comments (I don't follow you around so I could be wrong about this) it's most of the time something negative.

AbortMission1546d ago (Edited 1546d ago )

Right because a measly 20k jump in console sales for a Nintendo game coming out with no competition is such a "system seller" Lol. I love how you fanboys downplay terms like "next gen" and "system seller" just to accommodate for the Wii u's lacking hardware/sales.

And I only comment "negatively" on fanboys.

chadboban1545d ago

"And I only comment "negatively" on fanboys"

Not from what I've read but whatever. I get so sick of these console wars anyway. They make grown ass folks act like damn children over which console is DA BEST. It makes me sick the way some of you behave.

BattleAxe1545d ago

Look out, Francis is on the war path!

Let's just get this out into the open. And just so people are aware, I have decided not to buy a next generation console at all, so I don't have a dog in this fight:

#1. Compared to Xbox Live and the Playstation Network, the E-Shop IS years too late. Both Sony and Microsoft have brand recognition associated with their respective market places and social ecosystems. Meanwhile, nobody outside of hardcore Nintendo fans knows what the E-Shop is, or even what the Miiverse is.

It's clear that when the Xbox One and the PS4 launch, all of the attention this holiday season will be focused towards Microsoft and Sony, but Sony in particular. At the end of the day when you look at worldwide numbers, the PS Vita is selling better than the WiiU based on year to date sales, and the funny thing is how people are talking about how bad the PS Vita is selling.

It's not complicated, the WiiU is in serious trouble, and so lets just hope that Nintendo's upcoming software releases can change the tide. Even if there is a large sales spike in Nintendo's hardware, it will be the hardcore Nintendo fan that buys theses games, and who will ultimately buy the WiiU. I don't believe that the WiiU will attract new gamers on anywhere near the scale of what the PS4 will, or even the Xbox One (unfortunately).

#2. Steve Balmer should have been fired years ago, and it's good to see him announce his departure. Xbox One was a complete public relations disaster, and I'm glad that they are turning back some of their policies that they originally announced around E3. I believe that Don Matrick and Steve Balmer were really holding Microsoft back, and I think there may be a great opportunity for Microsoft to chart a new direction once Blamer has finally left the company.

Personally I don't think Microsoft should leave the gaming industry, but it would make sense for them to drop the Xbox and concentrate on the PC. Recent news of Microsoft hiring a former STEAM executive to take charge in redesigning Games For Windows Live, leads me to believe that Microsoft might actually have something good to offer on the PC at some point in the not so distant future.

This would be great news for PC gamers who want to play Microsoft exclusive games on their PC's, and who knows, maybe they'll adopt a STEAM-like approach to doing business on GFWL, kind of like how EA is trying to copy STEAM's success with Origin. The great thing with Microsoft is that they have all of the assets and resources to put something great together for PC customers.

I say ditch the hardware (Xbox One) and concentrate on the PC, especially since PCs are the way of the future, and eventually we'll all be playing Playstation on the Playstation Client for PC at some point in the next 10 years anyway. I think that once Iwata finally gets the boot (and deservedly so), we'll all be playing Nintendo games on a Nintendo Client for PC, or maybe on Steam and Android devices. Nintendo is missing a massive market of consumers by keeping their games on Nintendo hardware only, and shareholders aren't stupid, they'll demand that Nintendo adapt to the new realities that todays technology offers, otherwise Nintendo will fizzle out into the dustbin of history.

The Wii was a fad, and they will never make another home console that will sell up around 100 million like the Wii has done. Soccer moms, senior citizens, baby boomers and casual gamers will not be buying the WiiU as they might have done with the Wii. Those people are playing on their smart phones, tablets, facebook and the Wiis that they bought 4 or 5 years ago. It's time to change the business strategy, and Francis, I know that you know that way deep down inside, you know I'm right.

Theyellowflash301545d ago

All of that rambling and you proved nothing BattleAxe, if PSN and Xbox Live were so profitable, why isn't Microsoft and Sony making any money in their gaming divisons?

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Belking1546d ago

This Rick guy is delusional if he thinks MS hasn't made any money off the xbox brand. XBL alone takes in over 1 billion a Xbox360 was making profits years ago.This stuff is hilarious.

Biggest1546d ago

You may not have a full grasp on the way business works. Profit on each device sold does not equate to overall profit. Xbox may be "making money" as we speak, but Xbox has a lot of loss to cover before it becomes actual profit.

Dlacy13g1546d ago

The problem is the Xbox has traditionally been lumped into The "entertainment and devices" division which includes much more than just Xbox. The loses in that division can be attributed to other things like Zune, Windows Phone (so far) Surface RT, and the like.

MS will be interesting to watch in the coming year though as they phase out Ballmer and whoever the new chief is steps up.

iamnsuperman1546d ago (Edited 1546d ago )


That is completely true and it would be interesting to see how Microsoft reacts to this as that division needs a shake up. The question is what do they get rid of and what do they focus on. Tablets (despite the losses) and Mobiles are probably to important to pass up especially when Microsoft and consumers are moving towards a unified OS system but the xbox penetrates the home space (they need to see if that is still important now). Some people have said they should focus on a software future than a hardware future. It is going to be interesting what the new boss does.

Belking1546d ago (Edited 1546d ago )

Dude, I know how business works. Every division in ms has lost money. This doesn't mean they aren't making profits. Xbox division makes money off games,xbl, and additional stuff. Why you think sony has come aboard the online charge Xbox division does well. Believe that. Now sony on the the other hand is another story. It's pretty obvious they aren't doing as well. They didn't even start profiting on ps3 til 2011. Those profits were totally wiped out by ps4 development. That's why they had to sell off building assets to help with the cost and stay afloat.

Dude, you are misinformed. xbox division is profitable.

And that was way back in 2009...holla!

Mikeyy1546d ago


Wow, just wow. Its funny how people have ragged on the ps3 for "not making any money". While ignoring the fact that the PlayStation brand is also in an entertainment division that had numerous products of varying performance. Then they turn around and use that same defense for the Xbox brand. MS doesn't have anywhere near the amount of products in its entertainment division then Sony has...

Manic20141546d ago

They Did to better for the 1st quarter this year:

Dlacy13g1546d ago

@Mikkey yes the playstation line of products is part of the Sony Consumer and Products division... Both companies hide other devices and costs with in these divisions. That is why when people start trying to quote financials I question their sources. If you drill down on either company you can find specifically how certain hardware has done but far too often financial quotes are for the divisions as a whole and not the products and specific services they offered.

Muerte24941546d ago

Then why propose a sell of specific part of that division if that's the only part that's profitable? I mean, why would investors single out Xbox Division only?

Don't know this ultimately doesn't matter. Xbox One will launch with a pretty good launch lineup. I guess this is why they aren't dropping the price. Kinect needs to be a success given all the R&D money that went into it.

n4rc1545d ago

Your right... But the value of the Xbox brand I believe is a marketing tool.. It draws people to other Microsoft services and gets their name into the minds of young future customers..

They didn't enter the space to make billions.. They already do that.. its a promotional tool imo

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 1545d ago
porkChop1546d ago

The Xbox brand as a whole has yet to make Microsoft money. They're still trying to recoup their losses from over the years, losses that are in the billions.

MonkeyNinja1546d ago

1 billion a year minus ads, money-hats to devs for timed-exclusivity deals, shady deals with the media, paying for celebs at conferences...

What he's trying to say is that compared to Microsoft's other divisions, the XBox brand barely turns a profit, so Microsoft would be better off handing it over to a company like Samsung. I agree.

RicardJulianti1546d ago

Here's the thing though.....MS may have been turning a yearly profit back in 2009...and possibly even SINCE 2009...

BUT, they have not posted a net profit for the lifetime of the 360...or the Xbox brand in general even with games, XBL and so forth. That's what Rick Sherlund is getting at when he says they haven't made money.

They may have spent less than they earned YoY, but LTD is a disaster. I wouldn't be surprised if losses are close to $10bn honestly.

aawells071545d ago

It's funny how you criticise Pachter yet you're doing the same exact thing.

RicardJulianti1545d ago


It's funny that I'm not the creator of the video. I simply posted it here.

3-4-51546d ago

By making money I think he is referring to profit.

They overspend hundreds of millions of dollars.

They spent about 200-400 million on this connect BS and they will NEVER recoup that money from JUST kinect products.

That isn't a smart way to do business.

The thing with xbox is, it's good, it's solid, but considering who Microsoft is, it should be a whole lot better as a brand.

I love my 360, but there have only been a few games that really impressed me this gen.

Everything that is missing from the xbox 360 can be found on the PS3/Wii or handhelds.

360 is great for sports games & FPS, which I like, but there aren't many good RPG's, or action adventure games or 2D/3D platformers, or random various genres we haven't even thought of yet.

It all feels watered down compared to the games I played on the OG Xbox.

We didn't get anything even close to Crimson Skies this generation.

Nobody has topped that game or eve come close yet in terms of online multiplayer fun and it's addictiveness.

80% of the games on xbox 360 are souless and shouldn't have been made or should have been made much differently.

Once again, 360 is solid, I've had great memories and experiences on it, currently running through Borderlands 2 for the first time and liking it, but it's not enough.

All the game types from SNES/GBA/PS1/N64 era were abandoned or changed so drastically that they aren't even fun any more.

PS4 seems to be going back to the drawing bored and realises " Hey, we've been forgetting these 15 genres that people love "

n4rc1545d ago

People need to realize one thing....

All these analyst and youtube economists all want to talk about what's bad for bUsiness and how shortsighted ms is..

They are one of the most profitable companies in the world and have been for what? 30 years now? these people claiming to be experts couldnt hold a candle to microsoft in terms of success..

Its absolutely ridiculous.. When your company rakes in 10+ billion a year.. Then you can talk about how little microsoft undetstands about business

kewlkat0071546d ago

Microsoft has been making money off Xbox division over the last 5 years but they are still in the RED as a whole because of other factors.

Counting RROD, devices like Zune, Surface and the "initial brand investments" has kept them in the Red.

I think, those device are all in the Entertainment Division.

Eddie201011546d ago

This guy is not very accurate on what he is saying but as far as Microsoft making money from the Xbox division he partially correct.

Microsoft has made profit on sales of the system and games but they have never actually recouped the initial R and D investments in the division which were in the billions and were probably written off long ago by Microsoft but in the end was still money used to build the business and money they never got back.

assdan1545d ago

Have you heard of the XBOX? That thing was a MASSIVE money pit. And the profits of the 360 still hasn't made up for it.

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No_Limit1546d ago

Can't believe I am saying this but Pachter is right on this one.

Eddie201011546d ago (Edited 1546d ago )

Nintendo is still making money and for the most part since the Wii, have been. Just there profits have went down a considerable amount. does not mean they should get out of the hardware business.

Xsilver1545d ago

its called 3ds thats whooping ass

WrAiTh Sp3cTr31546d ago

Pacther is right. Another thing I'm just now realizing is that he was right about PSN charging for online gaming.

KwietStorm1546d ago

Anybody could have assumed Sony would charge for PSN. In fact, a lot of people did. XBL subscribers year in and year out have told not just Microsoft, but the industry, that they are fine with it. So now Sony is using a similar model. The only reason they didn't do it sooner is because the gamers never would have accepted it in the middle of the generation. But look at the reception now. PS4 can do no wrong, and because PS+ is such a great service, it can be overlooked. Pachter just made an educated guess, that's all.

WrAiTh Sp3cTr31546d ago

They way I'm interpreting your comment is that Sony added model because they seen how good they were doing with PS+. That's fine, but Pacther predicting this long before PS+ was thought about. I personally would have never thought Sony would go that route and I'm still surprised.

iceman061545d ago

I agree. Seeing as though it was an "untapped" source of revenue when Xbox was released and, as you said, gamers didn't seem to have an issue with was a pretty easy guess. Sony, just like MS, need as much revenue as possible. They didn't have a lot of non-traditional revenue sources outside of Home. Thus, they had to do something to generate revenue. They put out the PS+ service and it seems to be gaining a lot of steam heading into the next generation. It only makes sense to wrap the multiplayer into the service that way you can generate revenue and still trump the competition by offering a little something for the troubles. That being said, I hate that they have to do that...but I understand fully that these businesses aren't charities and have to make money some way.

KwietStorm1545d ago

No that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying paying to play online on PS4 has pretty much been accepted by the gamers themselves, because of a combination of PS+ being so good, PS4 being so widely appreciated this early, and just not having issue with it. The reasons Sony went with it, besides the obvious constant revenue stream, is because of the necessity for an upgraded infrastructure, in compliance with many of the new features coming with the system and network. If Sony made boatloads of money off PS3, then MAYBE they wouldn't look at it as a necessary source of revenue, but I'm sure the income will be a large help regardless.

As far as Pachter goes, yea regular gamers were saying the same thing before PS+ too, because Sony's financial problems were persistent for a good while, and everyone already knew XBL was a good source of revenue for Microsoft, so it didn't take a crystal ball or an insider to presume things would change. It's not like he KNEW this would happen. He makes a lot of educated guess. Some turn out to be true, some make him look like he has not a clue what he's talking about.

Dlacy13g1546d ago

lol... this guy is funny. Full of sh*t mind you but he is funny to listen to in a creepy way.

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