Msoft XBox One SoC has 47 MBytes cache in 363mm2 die! In the pic of the architectural design you'll see the "theoretical throughput" of 204 GB/s peak BW. Confirming Digital Foundry's inside claims.
K Buttery popcorn is needed Convas They were right in what context and the popcorn? Seems to be unexpectedly stronger than originally thought. " Bandwidth is at a premium in the Xbox One owing to the slower DDR3 memory employed in the console, which does not compare favourably to the 8GB unified pool of GDDR5 in the PlayStation 4. The 32MB of "embedded static RAM" within the Xbox One processor aims to make up the difference, and was previously thought to sustain a peak theoretical throughput of 102GB/s - useful, but still some way behind the 176GB/s found in PlayStation 4's RAM set-up. Now that close-to-final silicon is available, Microsoft has revised its own figures upwards significantly, telling developers that 192GB/s is now theoretically possible." http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
Can somebody please explain what the heck does all this mean ? Sorry Im no spec nut :)
it means only 32mb can go threw the fast ESRAM, witch means very limited application for it, the bulk of data will have to go threw the slow DDR3 ram, this mostly effects textures and loading time.
Essentially, this: http://images.wikia.com/dra... Basically this just confirms the rumors, the same things from a week ago are true.
It means nothing has changed, but some people forgot the definition of the word "theoretical".
Gaf breaks it down...nothing has changed it's still... PS4 > Xbone :D xD :P :3 :O http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
ESRAm helps nothing more .. and thanks to it we may see the same thing happened this's cur-gen where Xbox holds ps back just to let games being fit into HD-DVD instead of bluRay MgS4 30+ GOW 40+ UC3 40+ GB ..etc mean while FF13-2 were 7 GB for the poor x360 now will have to deal with files been fit into 32mb or 47 mb so x1 can run it smother, while the ps4 is setting on 8 GB I bet ps exclusive will shine more this up coming gen much more the cur-gen
PS4: 1152 Shaders Xbone: 768 Shaders PS4: 72 Texture units Xbone: 48 Texture units PS4: 32 ROPS Xbone: 16 ROPS Not even counting the the superior ram and ram setup, still just Means that PS4 is massively more powerful then xbox.
@tokugawa agree anyone can go and sign up in neogaf and comment, the info from there is as reliable as in here.
GP and her nasty green mind.
people angry at facts notice non of the XB1 fans try to give a credible explanation because the truth is hard to take.
The ESRAM is still essentially its own thing, memory read/writes to it can be 109 gbs right through to 204gb/s, but it's now a two way communication, not just a framebuffer cache like it was on the 360. What that really means is post processing/defferred rendering is slick. Hellishly slick. Rendering is again, a one way traffic system, but any post processing can happen soon as the frame is created in the ESRAM. No GPU to DDR3 read/writes. All win win stuff (like last gen). Clock speed increase means it has a throughput advantage (over PS4)in terms of the rate at which it process data, with almost zero stall pipeline in place. Very slick. OP/s still low compared to the opposition, but there is enough here to suggest that it will run efficiently enough. Outside of the raw compute advantage on the GPU (for PS4), the Xbox one has a faster HSA bus, running at 30gb/s compared to "nearly 20gb/s). It's all half a dozen of one and 6 of the other, someplace's XBO has advantages, others it doesn't. Raw rendering, hell I wouldn't be at all concerned, it appears there's more than enough caches, and with the esram, and the dedicated swizzle hardware, this will hold it's own. A good solid piece of kit that shows what a closed box customized system can do to beef up individual components. Color me far more impressed with the dedicated silicon than I would have been if they had just taped the GPU and CPU together. There is some smart stuff in here, wherever they know the CPU or GPU are gong to be bogged down doing mundane stuff, they have added silicon to alleviate it. http://www.neogaf.com/forum... that seems like a good summary.
Nice to see N4G has so many engineers. Hope to get a chance to use their products in the near future. As far as the spec's are concern, I am a Tech, not an engineer. I know what FSB, clock speed, Bandwidth... ) all that tech stuff means. I am no engineer though. I will look at the quality of the games an discuss those when released. The features, which make the console more of a pleasure to use, are also more important that over all power. But if the PS4 turns out to do way better graphic than Xbox 1, that could be a selling point for many gamers, if it turns out like this gen, People talked up Teraflop and cell to high heavens, then when the games came, most looked better on 360, could happen here. release the games and let's see. That is all that really matters in the end. No?
@DayZ, Yet... Even with Kinect, XboxOne should be cheaper because of its crappy low specs. Seriously! Isn't it odd that it's not?!?
Also, what the 8GB Flash memory are for? Really interesting...
What needs to be taken into consideration, is that this is an SoC. A single chip system, everything is on a "silicon die". So as a result if the ESRAM points directly at the GPU, that alleviates the CPU in it's own right committing to other tasks. Just because it's DDR3 don't mean it's slow, it's fast because of low latency, significant Data Flow. The design was built from the ground up, no beefy components simply put together. Don't want to ruffle any feathers, but that is a major leap in architectural design Microsoft brought it's A game here folks. @ tuglu_pati Yes very interesting. What's more, is that Microsoft had a tutorial yesterday at Hot Chips called "Flash Trends: Challenges and Future". We'll find out more once the techies hop on this. But I'm on beyond 3d as we speak and it's as much buzz. Very interesting, scratches that exotic architecture itch i've been hoping for out of the new optimized hardware.
To expand on Dayz comment, since big numbers are nice, but not as nice as knowing what you're getting with those big numbers, I offer the following. Shader: A program that is used to do shading. Basically, when you have a polygonal model, the models aren't always completely lifelike. For instance, a sphere can look blocky. A shader can help make it look smooth. In addition shaders can apply special effects to models, or even 2D images. Shaders handle how the final texture will look when on the screen. The more shaders, the more can be done at one time. Texture units: These are used to map the actual textures onto a model. Textures are flat images that have to be drawn on the model's polygons. These textures can be used not only as the basic colors of the image, but also the light texture, bump textures(which give it more realistic looks), or any number of other special textures used to effect the way a model looks when it's finally rendered. Basically, the more you have, the more that can be done at one time. ROPS: Short for "Raster Operation Unit". This is a bit more complex, but the basics of it is that before the image is displayed, each pixel is processed to give it it's depth information. This is where AA comes from, as well as many other nifty pixel and screen effects. Again, the more you have, the better the image can theoretically look. Otherwise, I can offer this to those that don't care what all this means. All these specs discussed here means that the X1 will be able to play next gen games. It's not a bad set up. Has advantages and disadvantages, and like all consoles to date will require talented devs to make the most of what it offers.
Microsoft is lying! Plain and simple, with those specs it just doesn't add up once you add in the fact that they said they up clocked the CPU.
@black0o do urself (and to us!!) a favour PLS before u start try talking technically again..go to study... whta u said is a freaking big nonsense BS lol
Microsoft is revising there specs saying that "its much faster then we previously calculated" lol
No we can't. Why haven't you asked the same when Sony pr chaps talked shit about teraflops , rops and shit?Why do you need explaining know when most of you played it computer engineers when Sony talked nonesense.Shut your mouth ps fanboys.Xbox One has won before the game even started.
Yeah, cuz you know if it comes from a website called semiaccurate.com then it must be true :D!
@DonFreezer Pre-order numbers for PS4 games say otherwise. http://www.vgchartz.com/pre... Wait, you're denying the higher PS4 numbers? Damn, you're more blind than I actually thought.
This is something I knew a ways back and thought that Microsoft would explain that to the masses. They never did and it's obvious this is "HUGE" news to those who think that "RAW" power means anything. Microsoft has been showing & talking about the next gen games, while Sony has been talking about the numbers. Maybe now people can stop talking about numbers and let the "GAMES" do the talking. I know this for a "FACT"...Developers have been pleasantly surprised once they got the final Xbox one specs & software tools. It's actually BETTER than they initially thought. I've said it before and I'll say it again. "It's all about the games" My personal taste is I love xbox exclusives a little more and I love the xbox live community a lot more.
Agreed Elite, Games as it should be. Specs is fine the way it is.
This would explain why there is no gap whatsoever in graphics betwen Xbox One and PS4. On the contrary, Xbox One games are actually looking to be more impressive graphically. Its just that MS shows the power rather than talking about it. I have yet to see a game that looks as good as Ryse running on the PS4. And with all that incredible power Cerny is talking about I would have thought Driveclub could give Forza 5 a run for its money. On the contrary, Forza 5 is making DriveClub look last gen. Its quite surprising to see that all these N4G engineers were completely wrong about the power of both consoles ... NOT !
@elite the reason Sony talked about numbers is they already have devs to really utilize the hardware,killzone 2 and halo 3 weren't launch games but there is a difference in the way the look and I'm not to talking about art direction differences,considering bungie had been with Ms longer than gg with Sony
there's gap between ps4 and x1 is the same gap between ddr3 and GDDr5
Most gamers won't choose their console because of a bunch of specs that they don't understand anyway. They are going to choose it based on the games, and how they look. And right now, the PS4 can't touch Ryse, it's not even close.
Am I missing something? What is being confirmed here that hasn't been in the rumored specs for months now? What's wrong with you people?
God of War 3 is a fantastic game, yes. But I am strictly speaking graphics, which is what "Joe Average Gamer" will see in commercials and base his decision on. And in that regard, yes, Ryse looks better than anything they have shown on the PS4 so far. I'm not trying to start an argument here, I'm getting a PS4, too, it's all good. (I just wish inFAMOUS Second Son was a launch title, because I don't care about any of the other games announced for the PS4 so far.)
Nothing says 'I admit the Xbox One is weak next to the PS4' like saying 'who cares, it is about the games'. Dat Wii U defensive technique. Did it ever cross your mind that those games would be even better if the console was not so weak compared to the competing console?
So now that devs have been saying the ps4 is more powerful and then we get this news confirming the ps4 is more powerful , we now are talking about games ? Lol you xboners are funny, if you haven't seen anything that looks better than ryse you aren't trying very hard , second son looks miles ahead and it's open world kill zone looks far better and it's 1080p 60fps and even forza looks better on the same system lol you guys are crazy or just blind. Nfs has been said to look like a pc game on one console , which as we know now via specs is the ps4 and yoshi pretty much confirmed it days ago, the ps4 doesn't need pc gameplay to look good it runs on the actual hardware , most games still haven't even been seen running on the xbone. Well at least now we can put the power argument to rest , we ALL know now that the ps4 is at least 40% better
"those games would be even better if the console was not so weak compared to the competing console" And "it would undoubtedly run just as pretty if it was on the PS4's more powerful hardware" Ummmmmmm... Ok, so why isn't it? Not Ryse, obviously, it's an XB1 exclusive, but if games in general are going to look better on this "more powerful hardware", where are they? Why haven't we seen anything that looks better? I have no doubt that the PS4 will produce some amazing looking titles, but as it stands RIGHT NOW leading up to launch, the XB1 is winning in the visual department.
@Bobshi Why? That's what Sony gamers are always telling us PC gamers. "who cares if graphics are better on PC, it's all about the games", they tell us. So why is it wrong for Xbox gamers to say the same thing? Besides, that doesn't seem to be what most of them are saying. They are saying that they think Ryse looks better than anything on PS4.
can someone make it clear for me, what console got the most preorders? what's the most wanted console after seeing what we needed to see?
"Microsoft has been showing & talking about the next gen games, while Sony has been talking about the numbers." Are we being serious right now? Microsoft unveiled their console and talked about TV. Sony unveiled their console and talked about games. And they've been talking about games ever since. Sony also released the spec's of their console because some people are interested in that (me included). Microsoft refused to release the specs of their console until today. Your interpretation of that history, is that Microsoft is all about the games, and Sony is all about the numbers? Even though Sony was first to allow self-publishing and has given the lime-light to small indie titles. Yep, all about numbers. I'm getting both consoles. PS4 first, probably. But man, your perspective is off with that statement. Oh and Killzone: Shadow Fall looks better than Ryse.
@Kobe - "Am I missing something? What is being confirmed here that hasn't been in the rumored specs for months now? What's wrong with you people?" You're not missing anything. Just some grasping at straws. It's really weird to me that people hold Ryse up as the visual pinnacle so far. There are better looking multi plats and exclusives on both consoles. "PS4 can't touch Ryse" Laughable. smh But, that type of person shows that graphics discussions are indeed meaningless. If they think Ryse looks amazing compared to titles (on both consoles) that are demonstrably more impressive visually, then what's the point of arguing? They either have a different definition of what looks good, or their vision needs checking. Either way, changing their mind is out of the question.
What if the devs for need for speed were actually talking about the Xbox one since they thought that the Xbox one would be weakier.... So the game would look better on the Xbox :0
I would be open to preferring Xbox exclusives if there were enough (not just timed). Have people already forgotten that the last 3 years of the 360's life have had a dismal lineup? Disagree with the truth if you want. It also doesn't help that 343 is on halo now and cliff has departed from epic. Fable has also been going down the crapper in a similar manner to insomniac if not worse.
Ugh the fanboys are blind. Ryse will get mediocre scores but if we're talking graphics it's hardly leaps and bounds ahead of what we saw with god of war this gen. Of course the people saying otherwise wouldn't know though since they didn't play any of the ps3 exclusives. Also have you see the HD footage of killzone multiplayer? The games not even done but it blows away every other fps graphically and even somewhat high end games like ryse (which is essentially scripted cutscenes that depend on qte). Edit: your disagree makes you objectively right buddy.
UnHoly_One: RYSE does look good but to say nothing on the PS4 is even close is a blatantly fanboy statement. http://www.youtube.com/watc... Maybe not quite as good but not so far behind as to be considered "not even close" It is also fully open world and has a very high level of environmental destructability which makes it much more impressive than it seems at first sight. http://www.youtube.com/watc... KZSF is no slouch either, Again some very open environments. http://www.youtube.com/watc... Multi-Platform, Completely open world, and online multiplayer with real time dynamic events. The PS4 isn't nearly as far behind as you make it out to be. Also it hasn't even launched yet. Give it a year or 2 after launch for some of the heavy hitter first party titles to launch and you will start to see what the PS4 can really do. As far as people comparing Driveclub vs Forza 5, According to the developers of Driveclub, the most recently shown gameplay video is still Pre-Alpha footage, around 35% complete, Pre-Alpha means the completed textures aren't even in the game yet. I'm not saying Forza 5 won't still look better, i don't know one way or the other, just saying wait til after launch to decide.
lol @ Ryse being claimed as the best looking next gen game. That is just pure comedy.
It means as was "leaked" before really, only this goes into absolute detail(s). The peak bandwidth figure is the theoretical maximum. But remember, although the BW available on the ESRam is very high, only 32 meg can be utilised.
The 204GB/s is a best case if you can exactly issue one read and one write access @ 102GB/s which is very unlikely and a pure theoretical value.
It's isn't any more or less powerful than it was 1 month ago.
Well in theory I could fart so loud that I could break the sound barrier, but pobably not gonna happen. This is just MS trying to make up for the hardware shortcummings. Yea, we know, if you use a bunch of technical mumbo jumbo then it makes it true.
Well no, theoretically you couldn't fart so loud that you would break the sound barrier because you aren't capable of delivering a fart that could be faster than the speed of sound. It's about how fast something is, not how loud it is. Every time you fart and make a sound - it's not a sonic boom, it's just the sound of the gas exiting your body. So in conclusion - The Xbox IS theoretically capable of what is being said, whereas your fart isn't theoretically capable of what you are saying it is theoretically capable of. Yes.
32 mb is to small for graphic or frame rate the PS4 has a large pool of unified memory that can be used for anything the developer want . The PS4 memory has no limitations the xbone does. Mark cerny look at eSRAM but did not use it becuase of its limitations . So the xbone is still 62GB/s for graphic and frame rate .difference, and was previously thought to sustain a peak theoretical throughput of 102GB/s - useful, but still some way behind the 176GB/s found in PlayStation 4's RAM set-up.
Did someone noticed that DDR3 bandwith is shrinked : http://i.imgur.com/LkCN75O.... Oh, i forgot! eSRAM can't do read/write operations at the same time so it's not 204 GB/s it's 102 GB/s.
Sorry to burst your (enthusiastically INCORRECT) bubble, but ... http://i.imgur.com/gqyaZAM.... Yeah. DDR3 BW is still the same. :)
PS fans all they can say DDR5 DDR5 DDR5 DDR5 lol. DDR5 wont mean crap at all to games. AMD used DDR5 for years before nividia made the switch and AMD cards still lost out in performance and FPS in games on max settings. The AMD cards that gen were cheaper and thats why people bought them but DDR5 didnt help one bit they still got their asses kicked in-game FPS performance by the so called slow nividia cards with DDR3.
It was pretty much proof when Microsoft were terrified to just tell us the specs back on 21st May. And even these documents are STILL not directly from the source.
Que? Games won't look better than PS4 first party titles even if you could control a satellite with the x1 so...
In all honest the xb1 clearly will out prtform the ps4 . 47mb cpu vs a 20gb cpu. Still waiting for ijnfo on how many threads coan be done on the cpu. The gpu hasnt been revealed yet.
How's that HSA Kaveri working out for the XB1 there frigy? ;)
WTF!?.... i mean you've got to just be joking right now right??...or you just have no clue... wtf does 47mb cpu vs 20gb cpu even mean!?
In all honest you're wrong. You keep saying "X hasn't been revealed yet", even though every time we get rumors confirmed it's the same hardware we've all been talking about for months. Nothing has changed, and PS4 is still more powerful.
He's a boy that don't know anything!
"47mb cpu vs a 20gb cpu" I think you need to do some research on CPUs before you say anything lol.
Perhaps you can explain the difference between a 47mb cpu and a 20gb cpu to those that don't understand tech that well.
@FrigidDARKNESS: wow - in all honesty you should stop making xbox one look like the perfect hang-around for people with mental problems.
Never go full retard.... even on N4G that's just embarrassing.
About XO presentation and about bandwith. Microsoft's bullshiting again! Ars Technica Similarly, the company claimed that there was more than 200GB of bandwidth within the system. Again, the number had no context or clarification and if rumors are to be believed, it suggests some rather creative accounting: 68 GB main memory bandwidth, 102GB bandwidth to an embedded SRAM buffer for the GPU, and 30GB bandwidth between the CPU and GPU. While that does add up to 200GB, there are no two parts of the SoC that can communicate with each other at 200 GB/s. AnandTech According to their data, there’s roughly 50GB/s of bandwidth in each direction to the SoC’s embedded SRAM (102GB/s total bandwidth). The combination of the two plus the CPU-GPU connection at 30GB/s is how Microsoft arrives at its 200GB/s bandwidth figure, although in reality that’s not how any of this works. TechPowerup Xbox One chip is a slightly different beast. It uses the same eight "Jaguar" 1.60 GHz cores, but a slightly smaller Radeon GPU that packs 768 stream processors, and a quad-channel DDR3-2133 MHz memory interface, which offers a memory bandwidth of 68.3 GB/s, and holding 8 GB of memory. Memory between the two subsystems are shared in a similar way to PlayStation 4, with one small difference. Xbox One chip uses a large 32 MB SRAM cache, which operates at 102 GB/s, but at infinitesimally lower latency than GDDR5. This cache cushions data-transfers for the GPU. Microsoft engineers are spinning this off as "200 GB/s of memory bandwidth," by somehow clubbing bandwidths of the various memory types in the system.
There is no way to look at it otherwise. The facts are as clear as day that believing otherwise is just delusional. Thanks for gathering all the relevant information in one concise comment. Cheers.
Yep. Exactly like the PS3 "512 MB or RAM" last gen where in fact it was two different pools.
You are back? -_-
I first heard that 192ish G/Bs was possible, but then it switched to 102. But I really dont care, this is just more trouble for devs to use esram, and it is still limited vs having the full pool of ram.