430°
Submitted by RandomDude655 493d ago | interview

PS4 only console with Huma architecture

via Google Translate: Although each AMD hardware is in the next game consoles Xbox Playstation One and 4, only the Playstation 4 is the Huma technology support for a shared memory area. This explained AMD's senior product marketing manager Marc Diana opposite c't at Gamescom. This is likely the 3D performance of the Playstation 4 is still much more put on the Xbox One, as adopted at the current level. (PS4)

Alternative Sources
DoesUs  +   493d ago | Intelligent
"Only PlayStation 4 incorporates HUMA [Heterogeneous Uniform Memory Access]"

"This should put the 3D performance of PlayStation 4 much farther ahead of Xbox One than many have expected so far"

"Our guy on the ground has heard this as well from multiplatform developers and publishers. Their PS4 game builds are significantly outperforming the Xbox One game builds."

The important bits.
MasterCornholio  +   493d ago
Oh yeah buddy.
John Carmack > AMD

-sarcasm-

Carmack might be a programming genius but theres no way that hes going to know more than AMD which are the ones who designed the APU in the PS4 and XBOX One.

Edit: "Carmack said that he didn't do actual benchmarking for both console"

So what did he do then? Did he just look at the specs and come up with a conclusion or something similar?

Thats just lame then.
#1.1 (Edited 493d ago ) | Agree(46) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
GamersRulz  +   493d ago
to be fair Carmack said that he didn't do actual benchmarking for both console, so he opinion is irrelevant atm.
DevilishSix  +   493d ago
Master

Even if Carmack looked at the specs he would have seen that:

PS4 GPU has 1/3 more cores
PS4 RAM is the higher qaulity memory
and supposedly the CPU is clocked faster on the PS4

I think Carmack spoke before he knew WTH he was talking about, because we know he isn't that dumb.
assdan  +   493d ago
First off, AMD has made a statement confirming that the PS4 is stronger.
Second, why is it still even up for debate which one is stronger for some people?
Third and most important; WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY USING THAT PICTURE?! We know what the PS4 looks like, and we'e known for months.
XtraTrstrL  +   493d ago
To be fair, when he said they were very similar, it seemed that he was talking about the main CPU\GPU hardware parts they were using. I don't believe he was talking about the power of them each, or the resulting quality of graphics and robust gaming worlds they'd each be able to produce.

He also might not have known that Xbone wasn't gonna allow for hUMA in it's hardware setup. That's a huge blow to Microsoft, that is only gonna show more and more as PS4 devs take more advantage of the hUMA and their more advanced form of GPU compute.
#1.1.4 (Edited 493d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(0) | Report
HardTileD_   493d ago | Spam
TI_21  +   492d ago
What's so vague about the article?

They reported that PS4's memory architecture can make use of the hUMA tech, while the Xbox One cannot.
That's pretty straight and simple if you ask me.

They also mentioned the source which should be a reliable one, considering he is the product marketing manager of AMD. If the Xbox One would support hUMA he wouldn't deny that.

BTW, I couldn't make any sense of your last paragraph. What did you intend to say?
HardTileD_   492d ago | Spam
TI_21  +   492d ago
So you complain that they didn't quote him word by word? They really are at Gamescom, they also held the interview and Marc Diana did make these statements.

However, they updated the post with AMD's following statement, which <is> quite vague. ;)

"During a recent gamescom 2013 interview, an AMD spokesperson made inaccurate statements regarding the details of our semi-custom APU architectures. AMD will not comment on the Microsoft Xbox One and Sony PS4 memory architectures and will not speak for Microsoft, Sony or other AMD customers."

According to Heise's update AMD really stressed the point, that they aren't allowed to comment on their customers (Sony, MS or any other customers) architectures.
Lwhit6  +   493d ago
Sooooo does this mean anything for me since i dont have a 3d tv?
sourav93  +   493d ago
The 3D performance in the article isn't about the "pop-out from the screen 3D", it's about three dimensional gaming i.e. the game world/characters/items being in 3D and not 2D.
Studio-YaMi  +   493d ago
@Lwhit6
What you're talking about is another kind of 3D bro.

basically it's what sourav93 said.
#1.2.2 (Edited 493d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(0) | Report
Lwhit6  +   493d ago
Okay thanks everyone. haha
sckipt  +   493d ago
thank you for the summary it helped
DoesUs  +   493d ago | Helpful
How it works:

On a classical system you have a RAM pool and a VRAM pool that are physically speperated. Copying data from one pool to the other creates latency. The GPU is very good ad hiding latency. What it needs most is high bandwidth. The CPU on the other hand is extremely sensitive to latency. The CPU needs extremely low latency to work efficiently. Copying data from the RAM (CPU) to the VRAM (GPU) creates latency, but that's okay for the GPU. Copying data from RAM (CPU) to VRAM (GPU) and back to the RAM (CPU) creates even more latency. It's too much for the CPU. The copying alone takes longer than the computation wich makes this roundtrip highly ineffective.

Xbox360 and older APUs have a unified RAM. This means that the RAM is no longer physically seperated, but even though it's the same RAM chips, the system still distincts between memory partition for the differenct processors. You still need to copy the data between CPU partition and GPU partition, but this will be much more efficient than copying it between physically seperated pools. But it's still too much latency for a CPU, GPU, CPU roundtrip.

PS4 will have hUMA wich means that you no longer need a distinction between CPU partition and GPU partition. Both processors can use the same pieces of data at the same time. You don't need to copy stuff and this allows for completely new algorithms that utilize CPU and GPU at the same time. This is interesting since a GPU is very strong, but extremely dumb. A CPU is extremely smart, but very weak. Since you can utilize both processors at the same time for a single task you have a system that is extremely smart and extremely strong at the same time.

It will allow for an extreme boost for many, many algorithms and parts of algorithms. On top of that it will allow for completely new classes of algorithms. This is a game changer.
Minato-Namikaze  +   493d ago
Is this why Cerny isnt concerned with the latency assciated with GDDR5 and the CPU?
MasterCornholio  +   493d ago
It does seem like an effective way to deal with that problem.
guitarded77  +   493d ago
I think that he's not concerned because the latency is negligible. Latency will always exist, but along with the RAM, Cache and CPU passing along load/store instructions from one to another, the GPU's are designed to also take some of that burden. The new consoles are both very powerful, and if the dev tools are good at the start of this gen, the games should be incredible, with far less bugs than their current gen versions. If I was Cerny, I'd be more confident in running a game (even with more demanding textures, physics, lighting, etc) on the PS4 than the PS3. Can't wait to see comparisons between the PS3 and PS4 versions of Assassin's Creed, Battlefield, etc.
ABeastNamedTariq  +   493d ago
You sir get a Helpful bubble from me. Good explanation.
ThatCanadianGuy514  +   493d ago
You could at least give credit where it's due, rather then ripping a gaf poster and pasting his comment as your own..
http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
TheTwelve  +   493d ago
Are you completely sure it's not the same person...
DoesUs  +   493d ago
Yep, my bad. I'm on GAF but not not under the DoesUs alias. I know how it works, just thought i'd post the clearest meaning.
Deadpoolio  +   493d ago
Damn fine explanation sir, couldn't have said it any better
dmitrijs88  +   493d ago
Thanks, awesome explanation!
devwan  +   492d ago
@ DoesUs Well explained, although it was almost word-for-word from GAF. Still, truth is truth and it is welcome here :)

EDIT: Sorry, already explained above!
#2.6 (Edited 492d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
DirtyPimp  +   493d ago
its ironic ps4 is the only One
Xsilver  +   493d ago
secret sauce
Gimmemorebubblez  +   493d ago | Funny
You have a sense of hUMA.
DirtyPimp  +   493d ago
+1 4u
gaelic_laoch  +   493d ago
The PS4 is the only console with the Huma...n touch!
xboxisthabest   493d ago | Spam
oliver29   493d ago | Spam
TheOneEyedHound  +   493d ago
This is big time.
nosferatuzodd  +   493d ago
nice
ABeastNamedTariq  +   493d ago
HUMA, huh? Sounds good! Powerful console, PS4 is.
xboxisthabest   493d ago | Spam
xReDeMpTiOnx  +   493d ago
Ps4: The only next gen console with its own identity
Metfanant  +   493d ago
Where is fridgid??..

Probably scouring the interwebs looking for some random hardware architecture that he can say the Xbone has since his beloved HSA and Kaveri APU has been proven wrong...
pyramidshead  +   493d ago
he's not here yet man, but if you make it, he will come...
rainslacker  +   493d ago
LOL. I was trying to remember who was going on about X1 having this but Sony wouldn't.

Wonder how he'll counter this. He's a loyal one.
Alvidta  +   493d ago
You can only take this with a grain of salt, I'm gonna come back and laugh if in years time this is total BS and xbox managed to stay there and actually is better in some games.
devwan  +   492d ago
You only need to understand the basics of what HSA/hUMA is to know that Cerny practically told us this information already, he just didn't wrap it up in AMD's terminology.

What ps4 has might effectively be a subset of hUMA or the same principles implemented slightly differently, but if a guy from AMD says it's there and it aligns to all the talk from cerny and the One's architecture prevented it from having it, that should be enough for you. Quotes below from April interview:

The three "major modifications" Sony did to the architecture to support this vision are as follows, in Cerny's words:

"First, we added another bus to the GPU that allows it to read directly from system memory or write directly to system memory, bypassing its own L1 and L2 caches. As a result, if the data that's being passed back and forth between CPU and GPU is small, you don't have issues with synchronization between them anymore. And by small, I just mean small in next-gen terms. We can pass almost 20 gigabytes a second down that bus. That's not very small in today’s terms -- it’s larger than the PCIe on most PCs!
"Next, to support the case where you want to use the GPU L2 cache simultaneously for both graphics processing and asynchronous compute, we have added a bit in the tags of the cache lines, we call it the 'volatile' bit. You can then selectively mark all accesses by compute as 'volatile,' and when it's time for compute to read from system memory, it can invalidate, selectively, the lines it uses in the L2. When it comes time to write back the results, it can write back selectively the lines that it uses. This innovation allows compute to use the GPU L2 cache and perform the required operations without significantly impacting the graphics operations going on at the same time -- in other words, it radically reduces the overhead of running compute and graphics together on the GPU."
Thirdly, said Cerny, "The original AMD GCN architecture allowed for one source of graphics commands, and two sources of compute commands. For PS4, we’ve worked with AMD to increase the limit to 64 sources of compute commands -- the idea is if you have some asynchronous compute you want to perform, you put commands in one of these 64 queues, and then there are multiple levels of arbitration in the hardware to determine what runs, how it runs, and when it runs, alongside the graphics that's in the system."
#13.1 (Edited 492d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Ganbaron  +   493d ago
One day after Sony's weak Gamescom showing and less than 24 hours after NeoGaf's trusted insider CBOAT was proven to be a blatant fraud they dig up some random article on a German website trying to prove that the PS4 is "technically superior" to the Xbox One. How hilariously pathetic.
RytGear  +   493d ago
It's originally from AMD you oxygen thief..
I think they would know.
Ganbaron  +   493d ago
AMD has already commented and said that the article is bogus. The chip in the PS4 is custom and not a Kaveri chip (ie no hUMA). NeoGAF fails again.
ABeastNamedTariq  +   493d ago
@Gan

And where's your source, huh? We already know it isn't a Kaveri chip.
joeorc  +   493d ago
@Ganbaron

no that's not what the customer service rep stated. for one Heise.de named who gave them this information! they put a name to the infor they were givin, vs. a email by a service rep over @ AMD there is a very key point , you name your source in the piece does not take away from the fact Heise.de gave out who said the information to the person doing the interview.

not a response from a Email from AMD customer service rep. which to you sounds more up and up?

"AMD has already commented and said that the article is bogus. The chip in the PS4 is custom and not a Kaveri chip (ie no hUMA). NeoGAF fails again."

Again read what the guys over at giant bomb stated.

@tescovee: Not really. AMD Customer Support cannot confirm or deny anything because of NDA agreements. If Diana said something, it was likely never supposed to make it outside of the conversation between the 2 people talking. AMD announced hUMA earlier this year, and it is kind of their ace in the hole when it comes to their APU tech by their own admission, so if the PS4's APU has it built in, that would be significant performance wise according to AMD's previous statements regarding hUMA.

http://www.giantbomb.com/pl...

again:

Right from Cerny

""First, we added another bus to the GPU that allows it to read directly from system memory or write directly to system memory, bypassing its own L1 and L2 caches. As a result, if the data that's being passed back and forth between CPU and GPU is small, you don't have issues with synchronization between them anymore. And by small, I just mean small in next-gen terms. We can pass almost 20 gigabytes a second down that bus. That's not very small in today’s terms -- it’s larger than the PCIe on most PCs!

"Next, to support the case where you want to use the GPU L2 cache simultaneously for both graphics processing and asynchronous compute, we have added a bit in the tags of the cache lines, we call it the 'volatile' bit. You can then selectively mark all accesses by compute as 'volatile,' and when it's time for compute to read from system memory, it can invalidate, selectively, the lines it uses in the L2. When it comes time to write back the results, it can write back selectively the lines that it uses. This innovation allows compute to use the GPU L2 cache and perform the required operations without significantly impacting the graphics operations going on at the same time -- in other words, it radically reduces the overhead of running compute and graphics together on the GPU."

does the XBOXONE Have an extra memory Bus on the die?

Heise.de bis a very reliable news site, so..make your own conclusions
#14.1.3 (Edited 493d ago ) | Agree(18) | Disagree(1) | Report
Ganbaron  +   493d ago
@ABeastNamedTariq My source is AMD. It's already posted on NeoGAF. The author of the article assumed since Kaveri was coming out around the same time as PS4 that they used the same technology. Not true.
Kayant  +   493d ago
The fact that Sony is part of the HSA foundation basically confirms that the PS4 is using it. Look at the members in the foundation most of them as chip makers and the rest deal produce software. Now look at what Sony is has a business there is only one place there would be using hUMA since they do hardware mainly and only make software customized for their android phones and playstation it's only logical to think that the only reasonable place they would use hUMA is on the PS4.

Btw iirc kaveri is a laptop/desktop cpu and the low watt version of that is the Jaguar architecture.
#14.2.1 (Edited 493d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(3) | Report
Deadpoolio  +   493d ago
Even without it...The PS4 is still TECHNICALLY SUPERIOR to the Xbox One80 FACT...Get over it, get a life.....Have a nice say
nosferatuzodd  +   493d ago
wow
NatureOfLogic  +   493d ago
The PS4 is superior to Xbox One in almost every way. Why wouldn't this be true? Xbox One is clearly inferior when it comes to hardware and software. And now their precious online is even inferior to Playstation. Xbox One is a disastrous console that won't come close to Xbox 360 number. Xbox is going back to it's original roots.
pyramidshead  +   493d ago
Waiting for that special comment...
josephayal  +   493d ago
only on PS4
MultiConsoleGamer  +   493d ago
Toy Story Graphics.
HugoDrax  +   493d ago
Please someone point me to where "Toy Story graphics was mentioned by Sony"? LOL I keep reading people post that, but I must have missed it in the past. Link please.
MRMagoo123  +   493d ago
it never was said by sony or any one working for sony, it was a games magazine that said it i just cant remember which one, also ppl should stop with the needing 2 jobs comment as well because that was never said either.
rainslacker  +   493d ago
It was Wired I believe that first put it in the press. The actual quote originated on newsgroups though. It was going around for a while before the press picked it up. I remember reading it when newsgroups were still relevant.

Here's a couple links from google. Didn't bother to read them carefully to verify their accuracy.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

http://www.tomshardware.com...
HugoDrax  +   492d ago
@rainslacker @MRMagoo123

Appreciate the links, I had no clue why people kept posting that. Every time I read that Toy Story reference being quoted I laughed. Thanks again
DoubleM70  +   493d ago
Yes and Xbox got Direct X 11.2 exclusive to Xbox one. Go look that up and than come talk to me.
MRMagoo123  +   493d ago
I really think you should be the one looking things up.

http://www.opengl.org/docum...
http://msdn.microsoft.com/e...
Good_news_every1   493d ago | Spam
sAVAge_bEaST  +   492d ago
pS4, built for Gaming 1st,

xbone, built for everything else, such as TeeVee, sports, nonsense.

4>1
Xtremist  +   492d ago
In my understanding the HSA approach in PS4's APU means that the PS4 CPU will be as much powerful as the compute power that can draw from the GPU without <<significantly impacting the graphics operations going on at the same time>>.
#23 (Edited 492d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply

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