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Submitted by Nineball2112 496d ago | news

Microsoft's Slow Response To Xbox Harassment Leaves One Woman Stunned

The story is sad yet familiar: Last month, Jenny Haniver was playing Call of Duty online when another player started saying some nasty things. (Culture)

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Maddens Raiders  +   496d ago | Well said
Unfortunately, I believe MS is too busy responding to other things atm. Hopefully they'll have time to respond to her concerns in the near term, but I doubt it.
Gman0173   496d ago | Spam
Crazyglues  +   496d ago
You can't be serious right now, I think MS has better things to do then explain to people that this is the internet... I mean really

What exactly should MS do... track down the idiot and what?, prosecute him for being a complete idiot and having very low brain cells...

The dude is an idiot, no question, but in-case this is your first time playing on the xboxLive service, that's actually really mild compared to what I hear on there everyday, also there is a little feature called block user...

I mean come on' what are we twelve...? Someone says something stupid to you, you report and then you hit block user... then you go on with your day..

how silly are we getting, what's next you just start doing whatever someone tells you to do online- http://bit.ly/19l6U6W

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ABizzel1  +   496d ago
People shouldn't have to deal with ignorance, no matter where it is. He's a disrespectful piece of $#!%, and I can guarantee he wouldn't have said it in a public area.

M$ needs to get this under control the best they can, XBL is full of sexist, racism, and all things derogatory and they need to crack down, especially if someone is sending you messages and you report it. It shouldn't take weeks. MS and Sony need to make sure reporting this kind of behavior is better handled with the PS4 and XB1.
rainslacker  +   496d ago
When everyone accepts something as the norm, it becomes a norm.

I don't know where you live, but I've never heard at any point in my life the kind of hate, ignorance, or immature idiocy that I can hear in one hour online, or even just reading on N4G. Probably not even all my life combined could match 1 hour of online.

It isn't normal. And it shouldn't be accepted.

Sure, we can just ignore it, but shouldn't we actually demand better? Too many people on the internet have no standards for themselves, or for others except when they feel they've personally been wronged...and then they expect everyone to understand their reasons.

Hypocrisy at it's finest. One word that gets thrown around here constantly, yet so many people can't see it in themselves because they're willing to accept the status quo.

No I believe all these idiots that ruin it for everyone else should be called out and disciplined. Lack of discipline is the reason these things happen, and it's a systemic problem with our society as a whole, because we just accept it as the norm, and are too damn lazy to speak out against it. People, including those that just allow it to happen, need to be held accountable, but very few people want to take responsibility for anything when the spotlight is on them.

Ignore it and it'll go away...that's your message in a nutshell. Seems like that hasn't worked since I first got on the internet over 20 years ago...back before there was a world wide web.
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slimpickens  +   496d ago
Frack that! At the movies you now get kicked out for talking or texts because you're disturbing paying customers. This same rule should apply for XB0x live since it's apparently a payed unique service. I was on live once and overheard a guy picking on another so bad to where we believed he was about to kill himself. MS simply needs to ban IP addresses and start teaching discipline which is apparently whats missing in these homes of menace users.
CommonSense  +   496d ago
"People shouldn't have to deal with ignorance"

yeah...well welcome to the real world. You are going to have to learn to deal with it or you can just be a victim your whole life.

You don't get cancer from being offended. You don't wake up the next day with a broken leg from being offended.

Get some thicker skin and learn to deal with it in whatever way you can that doesn't involve blaming a third party for somebody else's actions. MS gave us the ability to block, mute, and report. That's plenty.

I'm so sick of this entitled, victim, pc society.
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miDnIghtEr20C_SfF  +   496d ago
And she did what any normal person would of done right away right? And muted them and left them bad feedback and ignore them right!??!?!?!?
Gamer Muzz  +   496d ago
Seriously people!
This guy didn't break the law or anything. Was he a Jerk? ABSOLUTELY! but he has the right to be obscene as much as anyone else does.

I have to ask.
Did she COMPLETELY FAIL to see the ESRB alert when she booted up the game?
"Online interactions are not rated."

Let me tell you all something right here and now.
If those morons from the Westboro Baptist Church get to say the horrible, hurtful, and shameful, things they say while protesting the funeral of an American soldier, under the blanket of free speech, then This guy should be protected as well. Period. He spoke his mind and he has that right.

IMO, he shouldn't be banned at all. that's why we can block people. The "Rep" system will be an added bonus to the new live, but seriously. No one deserves special treatment and if you don't like what people say online (that includes PC and PS4 as well) then don't play with strangers. (I play my online games with people from my friends list only)

She should have blocked the guy and moved on.
Question: Why is she so special that when SHE doesn't like someone they should be banned or suspended?
Answer: Shes Not.
MsMcClever  +   496d ago
Those people can say what they want in an open forum, but XBL isn't an open forum. They charge people to be able to connect to their service, so their customers should have a basic right to not be verbally assaulted every time they join a match. Also, if the person was threatening her with bodily harm, he was breaking the law, not "speaking his mind".
RavageX  +   496d ago
If I am going to pay for a service, I expect it. I would not pay(and don't) for a service where verbal abuse and harassment is allowed and you are simply expected to ignore it.

You act like that and there is proof, your account should be banned. No if's, and's or but's.

You can act a certain way, but that doesn't mean there aren't consequences. You might get beat down, fired, even killed. You opened your mouth to say stupid things to someone, you take that chance.

The people defending this guy are probably the very ones that act in a similar manner.
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rainslacker  +   496d ago
You are bound by MS terms of service. Here is their page regarding their code of conduct online

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/l...

This isn't a free speech issue. You sign away your right to free speech on the service when you sign up. It's in the Terms of Service.

Just because there is an ESRB warning, that doesn't mean that people are allowed to be abusive. 1st amendment free speech doesn't even cover abuse or harassment. There are laws that explicitly say so.

It's the same on here. When you sign up, you can be banned for being abusive to other members. You explicitly agree to it when you clicked that little check box.
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iMixMasTer872   496d ago | Spam
darkride66  +   496d ago
"Seriously people! This guy didn't break the law or anything."

Of course he broke the law. Threatening someone with rape or violence is absolutely against the law. Doesn't matter if they don't mean it, if it's in person, online, over the phone..what he did couldn't be more illegal.

How can people not know this?
Angeljuice  +   495d ago
Speaking from personal experience, all you have to do to provoke these imbeciles is be black, sound black or be female. Honestly, if you defend this crap you're as bad as them.
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Gamer Muzz  +   491d ago
@darkride66
@MsMcClever
You're wrong. Threatening to commit assault is illegal ONLY IF it is accompanied by the apparent ability to carry out the threat.
The user on XBL making threats does not have the ability to follow through with them unless they personally know the person they're speaking too. These treats were made by a guy who did not personally know this woman, and that was not capable of getting her personal information. He could not carry out his threats and therefore, did NOT break the law.

@rainslacker
I never said he didn't break the TOS. I said he didn't break the law. IMO, people should expect this because it's a sad fact of online gaming. People are jerks. Boo Hoo. If you don't like it, then just game with people on your friends list. That way you know they wont be nasty.
I don't see why people get banned when we have a system for totally blocking them and it's as easy as pushing a button.

@RavageX
You'd be wrong. I've never spoken like that to someone online. Making accusations based on some narrow minded assumptions on your part is nothing short of ignorant.

As for the rest of it.
As I said, that's why we have the ability to block people.
If she thinks shes so special, then she should be patient and not whine about MS not acting swiftly enough, because as we all know, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS ONLINE. not just to women, not just to people of other race, gender, Sexual orientation, ETC. But to everyone! and there's so much of it, I'm sure it takes ages to get every case handled. She's no more special than anyone else no matter what she may think.
it's happened to me too. But I just block and move on. I'm an adult, I don't need to cry like a 6 year old with hurt feelings.

LASTLY,
I also consider that we don't know what she said to him at all. She could have been a prick too while they were in game. We don't know. I've heard females on XBL talking smack just like the guys do.
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BallsEye  +   496d ago
Only in America. Place where it's cool to call girls b!tches. Place where a dude sings he cannot find a better word than "sexy B!tch" to describe a girl without being disrespectful is being played atleast 20 times a day in every major radio channel.
Gozer  +   496d ago
I dont know where you got the idea, but its not cool to call women bitches in America. Call an american woman bitch and see how long it takes you before you are slapped. Rap makes it seem cool, but rap is a fantasy land. Call a woman a bitch in Tennessee, you will be lucky to escape with your teeth.
JsonHenry  +   496d ago
You can mute them, block, and remove them from your friends list. If it takes MORE than one of those options you should probably take out a restraining order. NOT blame MS for a "slow response".
slimpickens  +   496d ago
"Slow response?" Hell what response? MS isn't doing anything but pretending there is nothing they can do. I don't even understand the point of muting after the person being an idiot has already said things to tick you off and even scar young ones.
JsonHenry  +   495d ago
As I said- if it takes more than a simple mute/block then call the police. Not MS.
slimpickens  +   494d ago
Disagree completely!
iMixMasTer872   496d ago | Spam
Blaze929  +   496d ago
lol look at kotaku reporting about something no one cares about. Don't act like you all care one bit.

This female is mad because no one gave her personal attention? Well...that's new.

What you do all expect, Microsoft to answer every complaint? It's the internet. Report, block, move on. What did you want, an apology?

She wants this user punished like she is some sort of queen or something ha. And you all are falling for that sympathy why?
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slimpickens  +   496d ago
I disagree and yes this does bother me. The problem is MS does nothing no matter what you report which is insulting since we are paying for this service. Why you would attack her for trying to get something done about about an everyday problem is beyond me. Sure the negative Xbox news is a bad thing but this is something that needs attention.
Blaze929  +   496d ago
blah blah blah - that's all I hear. Tomorrow we will all wake up, and still - not care.
StoutBEER  +   496d ago
Take you're headset off or mute the guy! Im pretty sure if i walked up and started jackin it in front of her shed leave. I don't mean to sound incencitive but really? Top story? WTF is wrong with n4g lately!?
StoutBEER  +   496d ago
BS shin. I constantly use it to congratulate someone on what i thought was good teamwork, tell them there server is awesome on Battlefield 3, or just tell them there gamertag is awesome. I got called a fag on PS3 CoD 4 a LONG time ago. Its not the console its the games/ game community. This is not only expected, its seen every minute of every day on CoD. Just a fact.
Skizelli  +   496d ago
@Maddens Raiders

That's not how it works. Microsoft employees people whose job is to investigate these reports and act accordingly. They're basically moderators of the service.

I'm not taking any sides, but I find it hard to believe she was innocent in the matter. It takes two to tango. In my experience, girls on there are either bitchy or silent. I guess they have to be with all the little boys on there giving them a hard time. She should've muted him from the start. That's what it's there for. Everyone knows COD diehards have nothing intelligent to say. Ever. It comes with the territory.

That being said, he definitely deserves to be banned for making such comments. That's basically a threat.
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sorceror171  +   495d ago
"I guess they have to be with all the little boys on there giving them a hard time."

That's the point. You don't have to "tango", you just have to show up and not be male.

Go ahead. Set up an account that claims to be female, get a girl to speak through your headset. Play exactly the same as you usually do. See how you get treated...
Skizelli  +   495d ago
I'm not arguing the fact that women take a lot of crap from idiots online. But again, that's what the mute option is for. It's not difficult to use unless you like arguing with people. It sounds to me like she's just as guilty. Case in point: The article states he sent her a text message followed by a voice message. Why didn't she block all communications with him after the first message? I can tell you why: Because it takes two to tango. If a scrub sends you a text message, you're pretty much forced to read it. If they send you a voice message, however, nobody is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to listen to it. I sure as hell don't.
Psn800  +   496d ago
That is one of the reasons I gave up playing on Xbox live & went over to Playstation & people say why don't you turn the volume down & I'd say why should I gamers should be civil to one another banter yeah but harassment no way that was just a nasty piece of work he should be banned for life .
Ksar  +   496d ago
Unfortunately, things like that happen every day.
zeal0us  +   496d ago
She's playing CoD ffs what did she expect?

@inveni0
Calm down you're taking what I said too seriously. The CoD community has one of the worst reputation in the game industry. It is filled with bro gamers who have little respect for each other much less a female gamer.

If she wants to enjoy her game without being harassed I would recommend her to change to a different game with a friendlier community. Honestly given the CoD community she's bound to encounter a similar event.

You can't change the way people act far as online gaming goes.
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inveni0  +   496d ago
She expected to be able to enjoy a game like everyone else, that's what she expected. With your mentality, women shouldn't walk past construction sites because the workers will whistle and say gross things. In reality, they should be allowed to walk wherever they'd like, and the men who make it so they can't should be reprimanded.
DragonKnight  +   496d ago
@inveni0: zeal0us makes a legitimate point though. In CoD everyone is a target. There comes a point where you have to accept that.

But I also agree with you, and based on what PHATDOG said, he went too far and deserved to be reported.

I love how CoD players, not all mind you, have this idea that because they did well in a CoD game that they are somehow something big and important. Can't wait for life to smack people like that upside the head with a 2x4.
Baka-akaB  +   496d ago
"She expected to be able to enjoy a game like everyone else"

Well she is getting insulted LIKE EVERYONE ELSE . It's not gender specific overall , it's an idiotic mindset where you'll get harassed or insulted whatever gender or ethnicity you belong to , by a minority , but still huge quantity of idiots .

So she is completely right to complain about it , but others are right to when they advise to change games and avoid the dregs of online gaming .

I agree with one of the kotaku posters however when he says :

"Microsoft (and soon Sony mind you) - You expect people to pay for your service? Than you need to MONITOR your service, so they can play without being hassled."

And by that i mean actually monitoring stuff . Not pushing some agenda about using real IDs as proposed in the past . Real IDs dont work , people have been using them for ages on social networks without acting any differently
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Kurt Russell  +   496d ago
*selects user* *mutes*
cyclindk  +   496d ago
Yeah holy crackers... if anything they should include a disclaimer with COD preparing people for the online community there, but I really think some sort of player rating system would go a long way to fashioning a community where "like-rated" persons can interact and play together without much chance of running into total a$$holes 24/7. Though dividing one's gameplay community can have its own consequences especially concerning online arenas.
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HiddenMission  +   496d ago
@Baka-akaB

So I guess you hadn't heard yet but now all the address info about your FB account can be pulled up easily with google so if your console and online ID is connected to your FB account then shit could get real.

Think of it this way you talk trash to a random person in a match, that person then looks up your ID and sees it connected to FB. If that person lives in your city then they can drive over to your front door and cause a real issue for you.

Do you see why real ID's will help to curb some not all but some of this bad behavior. People like their gaming and social experiences connected so it's just a matter of time before people learn you can't conduct yourself like A holes.

The funny thing is this already happened in New York last year I believe.
Baka-akaB  +   496d ago
@HiddenMission

In reality it doesnt work like that , most times . In the real world those people are either too dumb to consider that , or feel no one is going to bother tracking them down with a lawsuit or physical harm .

Wich means that no it hasnt been a deterrent so far . People are as rude and insulting with their real identities on Facebook and the like of twitters than within the confine of being anonymous .

Wich is why i hate it when company hide behind Real IDs concepts as a way to escape doing their job better , that is to properly control and punish offenders . Maybe it will change , but right now when those companies mention those , it's a cop out .

Again i reminding folks that it's an actual paid service , not the free wild internet
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StoutBEER  +   496d ago
Damn it. Should have read you're comment before posting mine. (:
kewlkat007  +   496d ago
"Unfortunately, things like that happen every day."

Unfortunately...it does...
insomnium2  +   496d ago
Doesn't mean I wouldn't still want to have a "chat" with this guy face to face no matter how common it is. I'd let my fists do the talking.
sckipt  +   496d ago
and sadly multiple times a day to sometimes the same person
Claudinho69   496d ago | Off topic | show | Replies(2)
gamingbeast718   496d ago | Spam
pacostacos  +   496d ago
this is why im always in party chat when playing mp games
ziggurcat  +   496d ago
"Jenny Haniver was playing Call of Duty online when another player started saying some nasty things."

... and here i thought that the CoD community is one of the most respectful, and courteous bunch of people on the planet...

Related video
Wikkid666  +   496d ago
Too funny...

Report, then block. Done... you will never hear from that person again.
DragonKnight  +   496d ago
She didn't just want that though. She wanted him punished. Which is kind of immature. She should have just left it at reporting him and let them deal with it whenever. Why does it matter so much that he was punished?
IcicleTrepan  +   496d ago
I agree with you. She wanted his account banned so bad she kept checking it to see if it was banned yet. When it wasn't, she took up a social media crusade. She had no idea if the person had received some sort of warning from MS that if he did it again he'd be banned etc. She was out for revenge and thought her particular situation was higher priority than everyone else's issues sitting in the same queue.
TekoIie  +   496d ago
While this sort of talk is absolutely disgusting it does not warrant a permanent ban unless he's doing it frequently to other players.

A 2 week ban would be good IMO as a warning. I think she took the comments perhaps a bit too personal? If I held a grudge like that against every player who's said horrible stuff to me I dont think I'd have too much time to play games :/
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darkride66  +   496d ago
I think she did the right thing. The only way we'll ever get a handle on these bullies is if we hold those who are ruining our communities responsible for their behavior. If she just ignored and blocked, how long would this guy's harassment have gone on unchecked? How many more would have had to endure his bullying before something was done?

Online harassment is a crime. It's everyone's duty to speak out when they see a crime committed. You wouldn't sit idle if this joker came into your work site and shouted these at you there would be grounds for him to be arrested and charged. We wouldn't accept it if he left harassing phone calls. People need to be held accountable for their actions. And people are saying he shouldn't even have received an account ban? He threatened her with rape. Clearly he's broken the law and should be charged with a crime.

And this is how it starts. It starts with online harassment, and as they get away with it, they become emboldened. Then they start sending emails, then it escalates to words shouted on the street. Then the violence starts. There's a pattern to how abusive people escalate their harassment. Of course not every online bully goes this far, but psychologists have long theorized a link between online bullying and future real world violence.

We've got tools at our disposal to report these individuals. The reason why online gaming is such a cesspool is because we, as gamers, allowed it to happen. She should be pressing charges. Trash talk can be fun. Threats of violence are against the law.
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HiddenMission  +   496d ago
Really...she is the immature one...I think your the immature one here who must not have a daughter!

Attitudes like yours disgust me! You never know what she has been through in her life for all you know she could have had a horrible miscarriage in her life. Think before you comment!!!
CoLD FiRE  +   496d ago
Maybe that asshole was right about "that time of the month" /joke

On all seriousness, whenever some jerk acts like an asshole to me on Xbox live I just respond with "LOL noob" and then report them and forget about it. Life is too short to get hung on what some random douchbag on the internet says about me.

Also, there's that invention called the mute button, people should use it so that trolls will only be talking to themselves, don't give them the attention they want.
clearelite  +   496d ago
Maybe she wanted revenge.

Personally I've been trying to avoid people more rather than trying to control their behavior.

Not surprised to see an article like this from Kotako for some reason.

They like to play the sensationalist sensitivity game it seems.
CaptainCamper  +   496d ago
I'm curious as to what the response would have been if the comments in question were aimed towards a male gamer.

I'm not defending the guy. I'm always up for a bit of gaming banter but that's taking it too far. Still..I can't imagine there would be so much uproar if a male reported something similar.
DragonKnight  +   496d ago
There would have been no response. If it happens to a male gamer it doesn't matter. Double standards are as much a part of gaming as code is.
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HiddenMission  +   496d ago
Not sure how you got so many bubbles but you really don't think before you comment. This isn't about double standards it's about the way we conduct ourselves as human beings!

If you attacking someone over the web, during a gaming match or in person there are punishments for that kind of behavior and you are condoning that conduct!

It's gaming it's supposed to be about having a good time...at what point did it become about attacking others who can't kick your teeth in right there on the spot. If want to trash talk hop on party chat with your friends and bust their shit...not randoms who may not feel like being attacked while playing video game.

You disgust me!
cyguration  +   496d ago
@HiddenMission

Your response to Dragon Knight makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

He's bringing up the fact that there is a double standard (and this news story here proves it). If a guy made a big deal about being talked to negatively or harassed verbally, no one would care.

It's interesting that some female gamers are asking for equality but yet want special treatment as well. If a guy reported another guy harassing him, how quickly would Microsoft or the gaming media respond to his query? Would it be on the front page of N4G?

A female gamer does it and it's "big news" and you can expect all the social media justice warrior pundits to talk about the evils of man and how "male dominated" gaming is.

It doesn't sound a lot like equality to me but a plea for special treatment. I don't play COD but it is something I'm observing from the outside looking in (also if you don't think guys don't get harassed in COD, just look up Minossota Burns).
LeCreuset  +   496d ago
Come on, dude. I take it you're a dude? We both are. Don't try to play that game. We both know what it is, or at least you should. Stop playing the "I'm the real victim" card.

If you're a grown man, chances are rape isn't the threat to you that it is to women. If, as in your little "What if?" scenario, it had been a guy then what? Do you think he would be going off about the dude being on his period? Do you think he would leave a message threatening to rape him and force a late term abortion? Come on with this stuff. It's not about YOU.
IcicleTrepan  +   496d ago
He's not saying that at all. He's saying that if some guy starts telling you he's going to rape you until you bleed or whatever and you're a man, then it's not a priority. But if you're a woman and a similar situation, then it's ZOMG lets ban the account immediately.

Both situations should be treated equally. He's asking for equal treatment. not about him at all.
DragonKnight  +   496d ago
LeCreuset: So just because a guy can't become "impregnated with triplets and forced to have a late term abortion" that means there isn't a double standard?

What if the guy said something that was specifically gruesome about men? I'd write an example but it would be flagged. But you know if someone said that to a guy nothing would come of it. You wouldn't see this white knight crusade all over the internet because it doesn't matter if men are abused that way. We're supposed to just take it. We're men, we're not oppressed we're the oppressors right?

This girl goes on a revenge crusade and that's her right, but if a guy did that you'd never see it on Kotaku and if you did, that guy would be ridiculed for being butt hurt about losing to someone in CoD.

@LeCreuset below: You simply don't understand. Your mind has been poisoned to think that rape is not equally as threatening to men as it is women so you can't conceive of a situation in which these things can play out the same way. You also missed the point entirely. I'm not pissed that people are speaking out about anything. I'm questioning her mindset. Why she had to be so vengeful. I'm also bringing to light the very real fact that had she been a he then this wouldn't even be a discussion. Rape isn't the only insult one can make so open your mind and stop White Knighting for someone who was out for blood because she had to deal with a typical CoD player and didn't like it.
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LeCreuset  +   496d ago
@IcicleTrepan

Both situations should be treated equally? Did you read the article. It wasn't handled at all until she went on her blog and other blogs picked up on it. Is a dude going to see it through like that to bring the issue to light? Probably not, because rape isn't the threat to most grown men that it is to women. Instead of crying about a double standard, the next time it happens to you do like she did. Don't just keep your mouth shut, then wonder why you get different results.

@DragonKnight

See my response to Icicle. If you have a problem with something said to men, step up and do something about it like she did. You seem more pissed that people on the internet are speaking out against such behavior than you do about people on the internet saying stuff like what he did.

@Dragon above
You call it being a white knight. I call it having some freaking decency. She has every right to want him banned. What he did was criminal. At the least he should be banned. There's a decent chance he reads gaming sites like this one. If he's reading this, who does he see you criticizing more? Him, or her? Time for the gaming community to stop enabling these losers with the "boys will be boys" attitude.
#8.2.3 (Edited 496d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(8) | Report
-Gespenst-  +   495d ago
@Icicle Trepan: In an ideal world of actual gender equality, then yes, both situations should be treated equally. In reality however, we need to do more about the fact that women are dramatically more victimised than men. A situation in which a man is threatened with rape by another man over a videogame is simply not as serious as when it happens to a woman in this society. Culturally, men have been conditioned to handle such a situation differently. Men in this culture are the "active" ones, the aggressors, the movers and shakers. A rape threat means considerably less to most men- has considerably less reality. If we decide to give AS much consideration to rape threats from men to men, we run the risk of not tending to a more immediately problematic area in society.

You're simplifying the issue much more than it can ever allow. Plus, none of this is about asserting female dominance or something, it's about levelling an asymetrical power relation within gender politics- it's about achieving ACTUAL equality, not maintaining a form of tacit exploitation and ambient systemic oppression.
mfletch512  +   496d ago
she posts videos like that on youtube all the time, just report them and move on. i wanna know what she does to provoke these people.
Wikkid666  +   496d ago
It's actually a breach of Xbox Live code of conduct by posting that video. So technically she can be put temp ban too.
LeCreuset  +   496d ago
People act like idiots so it's proof she's doing something wrong? What makes you think a response like that can be provoked? In other words, who in their right mind would think to respond to any form of provocation by saying something like that? I tell you, there are a bunch of Noah Crooks-minded people out there giving a bad rep to gamers.
mfletch512  +   496d ago
all im saying is that if i am playing with a group of people and they are playing the game properly and at least trying then everything is fine, however, if they are acting like an idiot in order to get a rise out of me so that they can record it and post my gamertag on the internet so that people will retaliate on me. then who is really in the wrong. she may have said much worse things and they responded as such. im not trying to justify what they said, im just saying that she could be just as in the wrong as them, she is just the one that posted it on the internet and is acting like she needs defending.
techuser  +   495d ago
This needs to be the top comment.
DragonKnight  +   496d ago
What I'm wondering is, why did it matter to her so much that he gets punished and why did she have to hound and hound and hound to ensure he did?

Most people would report him, block the guy, and be done with it. She went that extra mile and continued to stalk the guy's account to make damn sure something was done to him. That's vindictive, and vengeful, and should be questioned.
LeCreuset  +   496d ago
Probably because she's sick of it happening and feels like the lack of punishment is enabling these people? Gee, I wonder why she would think that. Let's criticize her some more though.
DragonKnight  +   496d ago
Don't try to feed me that horse manure. She had no idea what MS' Enforcement program were doing, or if he received a PM warning of any kind. She deliberately escalated the entire thing after stalking his page (which defies logic) because she wanted revenge. It's plain and simple. She was out to get him for insulting her.

It isn't her job to set enforcement standards or tell them how to do their job.
LeCreuset  +   496d ago
GTFOH man. How about this? He wasn't banned. That's what should have happened. Nothing less. You threaten to rape someone, then a ban should be the least of your worries.
ziggurcat  +   496d ago
i know you're not exactly defending the guy's behaviour... but perhaps it's because he kind of threatened her with rape, and murder? i know that kind of garbage is ubiquitous within that particular community, but i don't think it should ever go unpunished.

sometimes it isn't enough to just report and block, and it obviously took a bit of hounding for MS to actually do something about it. and at least now there's a minutely slim chance that this idiot will think twice before he acts like a troglodyte.
DragonKnight  +   496d ago
I'm not defending what he did, he did deserve to be reported. Here's my problem though.

What does stalking his page and starting a social media crusade end up accomplishing that is of any REAL value? Say he gets banned. Ok, but then the next day some other guy does the same thing to her. Is she going to once again stalk that person's page and start up a new crusade playing the victim once again for something that happens literally to thousands of people every single day?

There is never going to be a perfect monitoring system and this girl is always going to be vengeful and vindictive. She shares the same personality type as the person she wants punished, only with a different focus. This cocky douchebag likely beat her at CoD and decided to rub it in her face in a disgusting manner so she decided she'd beat him in another way and rub it in his face all over the internet.

She's not doing herself or anyone else any favours this way. I'm not saying she should have done nothing. I'm saying she's vindictive and vengeful and childish. She didn't handle it like an adult and he's definitely not going to change. If he gets banned he'll just make another account.
#10.2.1 (Edited 496d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(4) | Report
MarkusMcNugen  +   496d ago
Well said on all these comments DragonKnight. Too many people jump to a conclusion without actually analyzing the whole story. There were multiple ways this could have been handled without the need to call for a "personal army" as this woman has.
#10.3 (Edited 496d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
Erudito87  +   496d ago
Maybe the problem is defending P.O.S. that hurl needless abuse at other people.
I'm surprised at the people here who are guilty of this especially ones with sooo many bubbles.
LogicStomper  +   496d ago
To be honest, I sort of do the same thing when I report people. I like to find out for myself whether or not the 'file a complaint' actually does it's job.
Erudito87  +   496d ago
Maybe you're desensitized to the bs thats said online and shes genuinely offended. I've suffered from online racism on xbl and its not a nice thing especially when player reports are mostly ignored.
I think sony's solution is the best at dealing with this situation, which is using real names. I hope other platforms implement the same thing. People wouldn't say the horrible disgusting things they do if didn't have anonymity to hide behind.
jmc8888  +   496d ago
Actually you are far less safe in other ways if you use your real name.

You're only inviting real life criminals to engage in real life crime. You know because criminals are always looking for a sure thing.

I really wonder how many people are robbed by the info they post on Facebook. You know like....I'm going on vacation for 2 weeks....

Then they come back and their place is broken into and everything is stolen.

Using real life names in an online setting is a recipe for disaster and REAL bullying and intimidation. Online can be turned off or you can go to another website. But by putting your name out there and other identifiers you can be harassed and bullied in person, or worse.

I still see a bunch of cranks with facebook logged forum posts, like what ESPN just introduced and has been sweeping the web the past few years infecting more and more forums.

All you dissuade are the honest people who don't want to take part. Revealing people's identity really doesn't help, only hurts. So be careful what you wish for, you may just get it...and regret it.

Even the new Xbox One thing will backfire spectacularly. The people who will file the most complaints will be the biggest offenders. Hell over the years I heard some of the biggest morons on Xbox live while they were flaming everyone how they were going to report everyone in the room and such.

What the guy said was horrible, however she should take it with stride since EVERYONE that games online is a victim of such things from time to time.

Sometimes its out of the blue. Sometimes its just some dummy who's antagonizing the entire room. Sometimes you get a couple people fighting back and forth and back and forth. We've only heard one side of the story, and while it may paint a complete picture, we cannot assume it is so.

She too might have been spouting off and pushing the guy over the edge. Things escalate and idiotic comments are made. Who is at fault then? It would be correct to call both morons, and in this case we simply don't have the info to judge it.

You do have to pick your battles. In the grand scheme of things, there's millions of more important things to do...that effect whether we live or die in reality, more important then online idiots acting a fool.

People should put their focus on issues that really matter. Like your deposits being stolen to prop up worthless derivatives bets a la Cyprus which is now the law in the EU and US. But we get distracted by things numbered 2,003,436 or less on the list of important things to do.

Use the tools at your disposal and be rid of the problem with that person. I wonder what 'group' she was a part of as xbox live has you select what sort of group setting you want to be a part of. If she's on the mature trash talking group, can't remember what it's called specifically, perhaps she should switch out of it. Mute. Block. Report.

I don't blame her for trying to do more, but again I don't have the info other than her side.

Hell about an hour ago I read a news article about a 21 year old girl in my locale who called the police about some dude that forced his way in and was assaulting her. Turns out she was arrested too. Why? Because she and another dude were selling drugs out of a hotel room and all three were arrested. You just never know unless you hear all sides, until then we're all just guessing about who is right and who is wrong. Perhaps we're right, perhaps we're wrong.
rainslacker  +   496d ago
It's not required to show your real ID to everyone on the new PSN. People that act like this are unlikely to show that information off, and I don't know why anyone would want to show off that information to the general public.

Facebook is one thing, but on Facebook you generally aren't actively engaging with people that would act like this. Sometimes they will approach you however. Facebook though has swift responses to abuse of it's members, and things said on Facebook that are criminal are followed up on by the police. For this reason alone, people tend to act better, relatively speaking of course.
kalebninja  +   496d ago
she takes it to seriously its a cod player
bub16   496d ago | Immature | show
Fireseed  +   496d ago
I think as games have matured we've seen that it's the developer and console platform owners responsibility to help foster a healthy and non-toxic community. Take League of Legend for example they've done an admirable job at keeping toxic members out. We pay for XBL as a premium service and I would have expected them to sink more time and resources into this problem much earlier, but better late than never I suppose :/
IcicleTrepan  +   496d ago
The problem is that you ban an account, the person comes back next time with a new account. There are people that buy a month on xbox live at a time because they know they will likely get banned at some point and they'll just make a new account.

It's not going to stop unless they start banning at the console level.
Fireseed  +   496d ago
I agree, they would need to change the ToS to state that at any point they are allowed to deny you access to Xbox Live. So if they wanted to re-access it you'd have to buy a whole new system. Sounds harsh, but seriously if you see even half the shit on FatUglyorSlutty.com you'll understand why it's necessary.
MarkusMcNugen  +   496d ago
Yes, ban consoles. Thats the logical thing to do here... you know, because its not like multiple people use their accounts on one Xbox. There simply is no gold standard for monitoring users. Every single online community has this problem, whether its more prevalent in others or not.

Last I checked Microsoft does ban consoles, but for people who hacked their consoles. IF they were to change their policy to ban people in a more extreme way, I would imagine it would be IP based, and probably only temporary.

Banning consoles for user misconduct would hurt game sales and their reputation. Used consoles dont make Microsoft money, but the games bought for those used consoles do. Everyone would start saying they are a facist organization that exercises full control over their products and is very anti-consumer.
Erdrick  +   496d ago
this is why multiplayer games have a disclaimer like "game experience may change with online play and is not rated by the ESRB" or something
DwightOwen  +   496d ago
Yep. It's a CYA world we live in nowadays.
LeCreuset  +   496d ago
Why anyone would go online and make rape jokes to a stranger I have no idea. Well, I guess I do. Telecommunications contracts come with a set of balls these days. People get bold when they aren't face to face, can remain anonymous, etc.. Idiots need to stop and consider that maybe the person that hears that rape joke was raped, knows someone that was raped, or is just generally a decent person that's not going to tolerate the stupidity.

@Ice You're right. You can't talk sense into them. People act different when they get to play a persona online. Banning them is all that works. That should have been done.

@DragonKnight "Political Correctness" is the scapegoat for people that want free reign to act like a-holes and not be called out on it. Rape jokes? Cool. Don't criticize me for it, or ban me for violating the TOS for this service, because my misunderstanding of the 1st Amendment leads me to mistakenly believe I have the right to say what I want anywhere without consequence. All you people exercising your freedom of speech to respond to my offensive comments though? Oh, nah. We can't have that.
#15 (Edited 496d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
IcicleTrepan  +   496d ago
Why would anyone go online and say anything hurtful to anyone? Because they can. Some people just want to hurt other people. You can't talk sense into them. You won't change them.
DragonKnight  +   496d ago
Or maybe people need to grow up and stop needing their feelings coddled every second. I agree with tact, civility, and respect, but I don't agree with political correctness and walking around on eggshells for fear of the big O word being thrown around.

You go online, you have to accept that certain things are going to happen. If a report function is available, use it and be done with it. Censorship never works, people just have to develop apathy towards the words of strangers.
Neixus  +   496d ago
Would be fun if the kinect tracked your eyes,so you were forced to read through the rules when you sign in for the first time.

Would create a problem with players that are actually nice though. But this kind of stuff doesn't happen that often really, but when it does, it's from the cod community.
nick309  +   496d ago
People shouldnt listen to whatever bad stuff people say, just block and go on.
ajax17  +   496d ago
She most likely wouldn't have experienced this if:
1. She wasn't play COD
2. She wasn't playing on a 360

Simple as that.
MarkusMcNugen  +   496d ago
Yes, because people who game on the PS3 are just so much nicer... you are living in a fantasy world if you dont think this type of stuff happens on PSN to about the same degree.

No argument about the CoD statement though.
LogicStomper  +   496d ago
Prove to me that your second point is valid please.
sly-Famous  +   496d ago
Kotaku:
"This sort of harassment isn't uncommon on Xbox Live—Microsoft's gaming platform is well-known for having a large swath of immature users, to the point where the Xbox team built an entire system called Reputation in an attempt to improve things for their next console, the Xbox One."

Point proven.
LogicStomper  +   496d ago
"Point proven."

Nope. All you proved was that there are immature users on Xbox Live. Your claim was that she wouldn't experience it if she played on another console. So if you've ever written an essay before, you ALSO have to PROVE that this WON'T HAPPEN on ANOTHER console.

The quote you supplied only proves HALF the point. Now prove the other half before it can even be considered a rational point.

Also if you think other consoles won't have immature users, tell me what the other companies do differently that 'decreases immaturity in users'. Because clearly IF your point is correct, there MUST be something that gets the majority of immature users on one console and mature users on the other.

So still, point invalid.
#18.2.2 (Edited 496d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report
PFFT  +   496d ago
AAAND soon enough all these little immature fools are gonna Sonys problem. There is a high chance this fool in particular is gonna get a PS4.
ajax17  +   496d ago
Regarding #2: I meant she probably wouldn't have had a slow response if it had been Sony she was reporting to. I understand COD trolls are on every platform.
Loki86  +   496d ago
Here we go again with Kotaku trying to stir the pot.
FullmetalRoyale  +   496d ago
I'm so sick of these people. No man, woman, or child deserves to be treated like garbage while trying to enjoy a video game.

I'm glad that he FINALLY got banned or suspended.

I'm not a Live user, so Idk how common the voice message thing is. But I was shocked that he had the guts to send what he sent. The psychological problems that that kid must have...

I get flabbergasted simply because I cannot comprehend behavior such as this.

The worst part is that she/we is/are virtually powerless to stop it.

Kids these days...
Cueil  +   496d ago
she wanted to be updated and that's against Microsoft ToS... they are not allowed to update you or notify you about bans or punshiments
Dlacy13g  +   496d ago
Look, you can't deny it was a bad situation, nor can you deny that she was justified in reporting the offense. That said do I think it took putting the article out on websites to get action? Hard to say, when you are talking 40+ million gold subs there has to be an avalanche of reports that come through so I wouldn't be shocked if it really did take them 2 weeks or more to get to it. I am sure they are prioritizing things like account hacks higher than bullying online (I know it sucks but that is probably reality). I also think this kind of situation is why MS is creating the new policing program on Live to try and speed up the process.

In the end I honestly don't care whether or not she is happy with the amount of time it took to get action. I just am glad to see action was taken. Guy was a Dbag and deserved the ban.
pabadamus1  +   496d ago
People shouldn't downplay this. MSFT and Sony have codes of conduct that define how we should interact with each other on their respective networks. I understand that there are probably a deluge of complaints that are generated everyday, making it nigh impossible for MSFT to respond in a timely manner. If that is the case they should eliminate the means of offense so everyone can enjoy the experience.
In games like COD I suggest they eliminate all forms of communication outside of team or clan communication. Therefore, only voice, text and chat communications would be enabled for friends and clans. I don't play shooters online but I do play fighting games online. I always mute everyone else because the chatter can become distracting. I don't see how communication outside of clans or friends can be beneficial.
#22 (Edited 496d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Dlacy13g  +   496d ago
well...talking to new people is how you make new friends so there is value there. That said there is a handy thing called "mute" and you can mute and ignore anyone you deem not worthy of your time if you want to be in public chat.
pabadamus1  +   496d ago
Mute doesn't curtail antagonistic communication like what is described in the article. I guess she could just delete the voice message and text and move on but it doesn't fix the problem MSFT and Sony can't seem to fix. What if he chose to harass this lady to the point she wouldn't want to turn on her Xbox. Right now that is a grim and possible reality. Well maybe she should just ignore it but that still does not address the underlying issue moving forward.

My methods are indeed a bit antisocial and extreme but there is no question that it would solve all problems like this...be it at the detriment of socialization. Is this not a simple solution? That's all I am saying. Take away a man's gun, he can still punch you. Take away his arms and he can still kick you. Take everything away and he is rendered powerless. I hope that wasn't too creepy. Lol
#22.1.1 (Edited 496d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report
MarkusMcNugen  +   496d ago
Even if communications were set so you could only speak to people on your own team, these things would still happen. Ive had tons of messages from people that were playing on my side sending nasty messages about my round ending score.

There is no simple solution for these problems.
pabadamus1  +   496d ago
The onus is then placed firmly on your shoulders to pick your friends and clan wisely. Look, I am not proposing we eliminate the competitive spirit that sh!t talking fosters. What I am suggesting places all power in the idividual's hands as to what kind of communication they want to be exposed to. Imagine the friends system in place on Nintendo's consoles but less cumbersome. if 2 people who are not established friends want to communicate the only form of out reach would be a simple ping alert minus any text. If one chooses to respond then so be it. Before this initial acknowledgement by both parties, no other forms of communication would be allowed. If after you become friends you are subject to offensive communication you can eliminate that person from you friend or clan list and all communication again will stop. This would curtail a whole lot of bullying that is so prevalent in these games.
#22.2.1 (Edited 496d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(2) | Report
MarkusMcNugen  +   496d ago
Im not saying a system doesn't exist that would curtail this kind of behavior. Just that no system would ever be perfect at trying to monitor its users. Misconduct from immature or angry people is always going to be a problem. As the current system stands, you can just delete any incoming messages and block the person sending them. One extra step required to never hear from them again. In the scenario you proposed, things would probably be better, but there would always be the possibility of ping abuse from people. To which I say, what would be the difference besides its a ping instead of a actual message. You would still have to ban them from sending you pings just as you do now with messages.

Another problem is that as Microsoft owns the service, people will always look to them to be the watchdog in these situations. Simply leaving it up to the consumer would have some backlash.
Outsider-G  +   496d ago
Reason why I mute everyone except my party & I only receive PM's from people on my friends list.
NeoTribe  +   496d ago
Its a video game. People talk shit. Stfu and go on with your life. Microsoft has more important things to do anyway.
Outsider-G  +   496d ago
This is no different than someone being bullied/harassed outside of a game. Is this what you would say to your mother, sister, cousin, or someone important in your life?

Things like this can lead to suicide. But this girl was strong enough to overcome idiots like this.
#24.1 (Edited 496d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
iMixMasTer872   496d ago | Spam
SpideySpeakz  +   496d ago
CoD community is immature in general. Racial threats, death threats to developers, and sexual harassment. CoD gaming community is the lowest community there is. Those who defend this sadistic behavior (NeoTribe) are the main ones who participate in it. MS/Sony should create something that bans these clowns forever.
Funnymonkey013  +   496d ago
Here's. in a ideas just block him really its like people don't know what to do with trash taking bitches.
porkChop  +   496d ago
So they only took action after she made a fuss and all the major news outlets ran her story. How typical. Shit like this makes me sick.
ElementX  +   496d ago
I don't remember the last time I even chatted in a video game... Most games I have joined in the past were silent. The report/block feature should be utilized to get the person out of your face. If MS or Sony receives multiple reports for the same person then they will escalate punishment as they see appropriate. Trying to escalate an issue to increase punishment for an individual is immoral and immature. Hell if some kid steals a pack of gum is the store owner going to go to the police demanding time in juvenile detention? Would that solve the issue or make the kid more resentful and escalate his anger?
Phoenix76  +   496d ago
I don't blame her at all for reporting this sick sod. Im a father to a little girl myself and I have had stuff said down the about doing things to little girl.
You wouldn't go out and down the high street saying that to ppl, yet some twisted ppl feel they can say it whilst hiding themselves away behind an account.
MS should have responded quicker to this.
ElementX  +   496d ago
They have a process to report these things, expecting them to go above and beyond because somebody's feelings were hurt is just silly. Sadly the world is a rough place and not everybody is going to act in an appropriate way. The best we can do is instill good values in our children and hope for the best.

Apparently she thinks cussing in regards to the MS response time is mature behavior along with online stalking of a user she should've just blocked.
#29.1 (Edited 496d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Phoenix76  +   496d ago
I agree with you on the merit of teaching good values to ours kids and hoping for the best.
However, lets say that you started to get phone calls from someone you don't even know threating to do things to you whilst at the same time also getting letters posted through your mail slot saying that they will come round and butt-F*&% you all because they simply can threaten to do so, wouldn't you want action taken against that sick person. I know that I would. And I would expect my phone company and post office to do there up most to ensure that this person is and can be penalised in the strongest possible way possible.
trolling is for cowards only.
NeoTribe  +   496d ago
Dude, microaoft nor sony can defend your littoe girl from shit talkers on the internet. There here to stay. You have any idea how hard it would be for a company to anwser every complaint about someone being an asshole online.... how about you keep your LITTLE girl off of games she's obviously not old enough to be playing. Its like bringing your kid to a bar and telling everyone in the bar to not say anything adult like.
#29.2 (Edited 496d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
LAWSON72  +   496d ago
I must be a bad person because the whole time I read that I was laughing. It is just a game move on I get crap from other gamers all the time.
Funnymonkey013  +   496d ago
IKR yo I mean really just block him or her and move on ur always going to have people troll on u when playing online.
sly-Famous  +   496d ago
Do you also get guys telling you that they are going to impregnate you and then let you have a late term abortion?...............Intere sting.
#30.2 (Edited 496d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
LAWSON72  +   496d ago
Actually I have and I cryed all night and was worried they were going to travel across the country in their helicopter to do it too
mouzone  +   496d ago
i know right. I cant count how many times i have been called an N word or some other racial epithet, or witnessed some anti-Semitic or homophobic abuse. you mute file a complaint and move on block communications if they send you a message. this whole save the female online gamer crusade is getting ridiculous, xbox live is alot milder online than it was say between 2002-2004. when i read these articles i feel the need to turn on sad violin music give me a break
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