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Submitted by mukyoucom 350d ago | video

Critical Counter - Why Zelda should never swap Places with Link.

First episode of Critical Counter talks about Why Zelda should never swap Places with Link.

Michael will attempt to dissect and look at all arguments being given and address them as fair but intelligent as possible.
This series is aimed at not totally overthrowing arguments, but as an aid to strengthen your own by giving you a counter argument. If you like what you see please like and subscribe. Once again. Thanks for watching. (3DS, Culture, Legend of Zelda, Nintendo, Nintendo 64, Nintendo America, Nintendo DS, The Legend of Zelda, Wii, Wii U)

Attached Video
KumaKreations  +   350d ago
Well what about her own adventure as her alter ego Shiek?
jcnba28  +   350d ago
Now that would be interesting.
mukyoucom  +   350d ago
I am actually writing an episode about character alternatives that covers exactly how this would work.
But I already have 5 episodes written so those will be done first.
TekoIie  +   350d ago
I would much rather a co-op game with Link and Zelda where they both play different roles in both story and gameplay.
mukyoucom  +   350d ago
Still falls in the line of wisdom, she calculated the things she has to do and does not let her opposition get the upper hand, If you remember for OoT Link is the one that screws up her cover.
TruthbeTold  +   350d ago
Spinoff if anything. We have to wait a half decade between each game. They had better not ever do such a thing in the main console series as far as I'm concerned.
DEATHxTHExKIDx  +   350d ago
Theres a Zelda every 2 years almost. Im counting the handheld titles as well.
TruthbeTold  +   350d ago
Sure. But I said Main Console Series. Most people, including myself who enjoy Zelda games, want to play them on their TV.

Nothing wrong with the hand held games at all. Just not what I want from this series.
DEATHxTHExKIDx  +   350d ago
Are u going to get a link between 2 worlds
TruthbeTold  +   349d ago
Probably not. I just don't enjoy Zelda anywhere near as much on the small screen. If I find out that it's so amazing that I just can't miss it, then I'll have to end up getting it, but I'm not seeing that from the game so far.
#3.2.1 (Edited 349d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report
CrossingEden  +   350d ago
Just gonna leave this here
http://www.knightsofhyrule....
oops, accidentally dropped this
http://dresdencodak.tumblr....
how clumsy of me
http://31.media.tumblr.com/...
mukyoucom  +   350d ago
This is not "Zelda" she is effectively Link, the character that does not represent Wisdom at all. Having the word Battle Mage any where Zelda is an insult to the character, as well as lazy. To be Zelda you have to have some key elements.

1. Has to be royalty or in a position of leadership. Leader of Pirates / Doing things to try to protect her kingdom.
2. Represent Wisdom/ engaging in open combat is never wise. But I am saving this for a future episode so I am not going to go into it to much.
3. Having a full grasp at what is at steak when the triforce of power is corrupted.

But if you would like to argue these points I would love to hear it, as that is the point of the series.
CrossingEden  +   350d ago
Its called, breaking the mold, and shiek contradicts the hell out of the lame "don't engage in combat" nonsense, or how about the end of wind waker AND twilight princess.
TekoIie  +   350d ago
@CrossingEden

There's breaking the mold and just re-skinning a game. Im sorry but this is just one of those things where your just reversing the roles and claiming that its an all new game.

I mean we're completely opposed to COD going from WW2, modern day, Cold War, 2025 and wherever we are with ghosts but TLoZ doing the same thing is then fine?

Same game, same mechanics but just a different character and setting is not worth my time unfortunately. There are exceptions but thats going to make my comment longer than it needs to be ;)
#4.1.2 (Edited 350d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report
_QQ_  +   350d ago
That wouldn't even be zelda... Zelda is a character,link is a character but i guess to you they are just Male and Female and swapping their roles means just swapping gender?
Swiftfox  +   350d ago
This was terrible video containing a terrible argument. It did however show very clearly why Nintendo has simply kept remaking Ocarina of Time and just painting it a little different each time. Fans can be unreasonable and are very uncomfortable with change.

“...you can't just swap a man and a woman into things—It doesn't just work like that.”
“...there's no reason why Link can't be a girl.” The argument was so shallow he tripped over the hill that it made.

“...these are characters based on the artists, and story board people, and all the other people actually making this story for us to consume.” That's right. It means they can change everything about anything. This include the characters of Link and Zelda. Yet you are sitting there and stating outright what they should and shouldn't do with their work. That's a bit insulting and rude to presume you know better than the creators on what should be done.

“..if you say there are not enough women in games so we should swap characters. You're actually just following mainstream trends...” This is the insulting part. To suggest wanting to see more women in games, to see games more inclusive and accessible to women is just a fad , and to suggest individuals wanting to see more women in games are simply brain-dead followers of mainstream pop-culture swings.

If people want to see Zelda and Link switch places for a game it isn't because of “mainstream ideas,” it's because they've been playing the same sodding game for 15 years, and they want something different.
mukyoucom  +   350d ago
Point one, No you cant just swap a man and a women, That does not mean you cant make a man a women or a women a man. It is about context

Point two, you miss the idea that these games are made by teams, with a context to their work. You being so ignorant of the fact, is kinda laughable. There is context to the series, and what the characters "link" and "zelda".Its not that I know better then the team, I just know better then people that say the things you are saying.

Point three, if you think swapping Zelda and Link makes an inclusive game, I weep for you. You obliviously did not watch the full video or have the ability to understand it. Or you would have seen the ways to make Zelda playable in her context that represents her. Not this slap dash, lets just swap these two characters because reasons. That is not only lazy, but insulting to the context of the game and shows you do not understand the game series at its base level. It also shows that you think that a shitty swap job is good enough to make something inclusive, instead of actually making a real effort to define the character and what they mean in the world they live in. Which makes me sad for any women around you because you must not think much of them. (see I can make dumb statement that are out of context as well to your reply)

Point four, it is because of this mainstream idea that has been going around that you can just swap characters(which since you did not really watch the video, mean that the character has no meaning in the series. Its effectively not Legend of Zelda. If you want something different, play a different game. Only a moron or a made man comes back to the same thing day and again expecting it to be different. I also gave a way to explore the world in a different way while keeping context. If you watched the video that far.

Side not, I only respond as rudely as people reply. Their is a conversation to be had but non of your points are it.
TruthbeTold  +   350d ago
Exactly. People wanting something that different are saying that they don't want The Legend of Zelda. A game with Zelda as the main protagonist would be a different game, and as such, would need to be a spinoff for the sake of the series.
Swiftfox  +   350d ago
Of course I watched your entire video. Why would I comment on something I didn't watch in its entirety?

I'm not speaking of simply, for example, switching the character Link as we know him in OoT with the character Zelda as we know her in OoT, within the frame of OoT and washing our hands of it. I'm speaking of creating a unique experience built from the ground up to place a unique and individual Zelda we have never seen before in the role of the playable character normal filled by Link and vice versa. Link and Zelda are portrayed by different characters in each game anyway. The Zelda in OoT is not the same Zelda as the one in Wind Waker and the same can be said for Link. Link is the role of the “hero” he is the blank slate the player is meant to project themselves onto. The “hero” never even speaks to allow full projection. Now if the name Link is simply attached to the role of the hero, given Link has no personality beyond that of the player, why is it so radical to assume the role of the “hero” couldn't just as easily be called Zelda and made a female? Then you simply create a character, name it Link, and place it in the role of the “helper,” formerly filled by the role of the character named Zelda.

You're speaking of swapping pieces of a puzzle in an established composition and stating the obvious of the pieces not fitting correctly. I'm speaking of a brand new composition with new concepts and different pieces entirely and your rejection of this idea.

I also think it's cute how instead of clarifying your statement regarding the motive of people who wish to see gender inclusion in gaming and more female characters, you simply reiterated your confused, generalized statements and insulted me. You didn't even ask me to clarify my statements before you went in shields up and swinging. Such behavior is knee-jerk defensive and childish. You asked for a comments in your video, I gave one to you and you misinterpret my statements as some sort of personal attack. You should have clarified your position and your points further or asked me to clarify mine. Instead you regressed the discussion to personal insults. You don't want a discussion, you want to be right. Next time perhaps it would be better to end your videos with the disclaimer, “Please comment only if you completely agree.”
stevehyphen  +   350d ago
You keep mentioning context. Specifically, the two characters and their relation to their world and their story. I fail to see in what context their gender has to with it. Are there gender centric issues in these games? No. Then why do the characters' genders matter to you?
An example of what it sounds like you're doing:
The games usually involve the character, Link, seeking out or rescuing the character, Zelda.
The games usually involve the male character, Link, seeking out or rescuing the female character, Zelda.
Notice the difference in these two sentences? The second one has adjectives which are not needed, but you seem pretty keen on pointing them out. Is there any issue specifically dealing with chromosomal differences in these games? No, there's not. Put it this way: Could these games be made without declaring which gender the characters are? Yes, they can. So why are YOU assigning the gender roles? Stop putting on the developers. Yes, the developers chose the characters and their sexes. They're not the ones defending it and saying that's the only way it can be. That would be you; so you are the one who has to explain why.

Also: If Link were a female, why the hell does Zelda have to be a male. Not even going to touch on that.

If you're going to reply then you should explain exactly why the male and female roles matter within the game's context. So far you have not.

One last note: If you're going to result to personal insults then don't bother debating.
swice  +   350d ago
Why do the games always have to follow the Triforce of Courage? Don't the others matter too?
mukyoucom  +   350d ago
Well I think this is where people get confused. Courage is the journey. Power and Wisdom could have a journey so to speak, but but it would have to be before Courages journey. Courage to do something right that is not easy and almost sacrificial. Power would be about about taking gathering and controlling. Wisdom would be about Planning, calculation, political intrigue of the world at work with the rest of the powers that be. I would actually like to see them combine the time lines again.

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