TGR take a look at recent u-turns and wonder if the XBox One might actually end up being the cheaper of the next gen consoles.
Hasn't Microsoft just come out and say they are not releasing a Kinectless Sku (as in no way it is happening)
Yes, but it's always fun to hypothesis.
with all the 180's that micro$ft's been pulling its not unthinkable that they would do something like this. I think they'll wait to see how it looks in the market a little close to Christmas. We could see a price reduction if xbone is still being outsold 4to1 by PS4.
MS can change their mind down the line, but it is very unlikely at this point. Why compete on price, when you can compete on features, ease of use, games and platform? I hope MS sticks to it's guns and I think once consumers get a taste of it, they will love Kinect One. It will be sleeper hit like the Wii! The Wii was so popular that Nintendo cut all marketing, because word of mouth carried product sales to out of stock everywhere.
@mewhy2 with all the 180s they have made it wouldn't surprise me if they put a playstation logo on the top of the console!
All the changes being made by Microsoft for the Xbox One are indeed good moves however, they are of no consequence in light of the price point. Xbox loyalist my not like this but while most of the Xbox One changes are smart moves by Microsoft, these changes only level the playing with the PS4 even more while maintaining a higher price tag. Ultimately these changes only matter if they are translated into a more affordable console. No offense to Microsoft however, this latest update is something gamers have been complaining about for months while this was never an issue on the PS4. Now that the change has been made does this really make the Xbox One more attractive doing the exact same thing as the PS4? The simple answer is no as long as the Xbox One is more expensive. My point is that with the majority of the Xbox One changes being made which are great, they are nothing more than updates gamers were expecting from the beginning as the PS4 clearly laid out back in June which still does not justify the $499 price point which I believe will seriously hurt Microsoft in the US and worldwide unless they drop the price before launch.
mewhy32 raises the exact same point I believe except that if they did release a Kinect-less SKU then all the support, r&d, plus the most important MONEY they shoveled into it goes out the window that they won't be able to recoup. And that last part is where it gets really dicey for MS with investors and the status of the division already being on thin ice with said investors (not that the division is doing horribly just not up to their expectations).
They've 180'd so many times, might as well keep going.
Kinect being included is one of the main differences between the two consoles. I mean, I don't even know why the PSeye even exists, it's like, what's the point?
emphasis on the word "could" but that doesnt mean that they should. keeping kinect in the box differentiates them from the ps4 and also informs developers that everyone who buys an xb1 also has a kinect. the level of support for the device would exceed that of the previous kinect because the 1st was an after thought instead of something built right in from the beginning. What im really curious about is why did they make the use of kinect now an option? Was there a problem with making it work as previously described and being too close to launch they just decided to make it an option and will fix it after? i like the games, i like the platform but i cant help but think there is obviously more to their reasoning than we are lead to believe.
ps4 will outsell the xbone no matter what MS do now , not that it matters that much the 4 ppl with an xbone will still like it.
MS say ALOT of things though.......and then change their minds Septic will be here in a while with an essay on how MS does things right
After all the changed decisions so far, it wouldn't surprise me if they launched without Kinect at a cheaper price, with a different name, and a different console design. Almost anything is possible at this point.
they won't release a kinectless sku at launch maybe a after a year (next Christmas) they will but if they release a kinectless sku and more people buy that then devs won't develop for kinect because not enough people have it and people won't buy a kinect because developers are not developing for it thus you have a catch 22 situation. its also the reason why i think that because the PSeye is not included that the ps move is pretty much dead.
Yup, in the same way they said they'd stick to their DRM guns.
Umm... aren't you keeping a list on all the 180's so far? Do you believe anything Microsoft says now?
Microsoft PR guy said on Neogaf "if [they] were to remove the Kinect from the bundle, then THAT would be a 180... but it's not going to happen". To be honest, I think Microsoft will stick with their guns and release it still bundled with the Kinect. They either have to drop it now (announce at Gamescom) or risk dropping it during generation where some games may need patches to work without Kinect. Although, considering they said they wouldn't backpedal on DRM and the other 180s, it's up in the air what will happen.
Microsoft PR guy said on Neogaf "if [they] were to remove the Kinect from the bundle, then THAT would be a 180... but it's not going to happen". No, that would be the Second 180 on the same subject. The first 180 is the LIE that the system wouldn't work with the Kinect Connection.
MS also said there was no way they could not have DRM and always online. it's not just something you can switch off you know.... oh.. wait
They're going to run out of switches to flip. http://goo.gl/0w4kZu
Microsoft is adapting to what consumers want. Consumers didn't want what the original X1 offered, so Microsoft is changing it to meet consumer expectations. Now the last push. Microsoft needs a X1 Kinectless Sku to compete, otherwise, they are screwed. Simple as that.
With all the changes that they claimed to be fundamental for the xone earlier this year you have to wonder just how ready this console is for launch.
The might do the ultimate 180 buy an xboxone with a ps4 inside the box :-)
"Hasn't Microsoft just come out and say they are not releasing a Kinectless Sku (as in no way it is happening)" Yeah they did say that. They wouldn't just say something and then completely do complete the opposite, later. They wouldn't do a 180. The way Microsoft 180 I wouldnt be suprised if the console came out white.
Hasn't MS said a lot that isn't true so far? Why is it so inconceivable that they could sell a kinect-less SKU? They have reversed course on almost all of the "innovations" that they originally said could not be reversed. Such as: 1. always on, which became check in every 24 hours, which became just need online to register the device when you first get it. 2. DRM policies(preventing trading in of games, loanign discs to friends, ) is integrated and cannot be removed, which became no restrictions, but they removed the sharing library feature. 3. Games were region locked, now they are not. 4. Kinect is necessary and integral to the XB1, but now they remove that requirement, which apparently was never necessary and integral. So, why is it so hard to believe that they could have another SKU without the kinect and release it at a lower price?
It would remove any (of the important) advantage the One has over the PS4 as the One has been designed with the Kinect from the ground up. It may cost $100 more but everyone really look at the One. What is it without the Kinect Without the Kinect functionality it hasn't got a lot of stuff over its competitors. That is why a Kinectless sku would never appear. It would completely make the TV functionality (even if I already think it is pointless with TV going out and it needed a set top box to work) even more pointless as you can't use the Kinect to use it. I am not sure if you can use a normal controller with it (it would be vastly more difficult anyway) The Kinect makes the One (even if I think the Kinect is an more expensive way to do things/not suitable for gaming)
@iamsuperman "What is it without the Kinect " Exactly what compelling reasons have m$ showed us to make Kinect 2.0 look like something gamers will not only make use of but become something that makes the bone a must-have? For something so expensive to develop, so expensive to have included in the box, where are the revolutionary games that make it something people really need to own? Changing TV channels and checking who is holding a controller are not cutting it.
Yeah they spent as much money on R&D for the actual console as they did on the kinect. There's no way they'll release a SKU without it after all of that.
I wont be surprised if they make another 180 on this as well.
I personally hope this doesn't happen, but what "IF" they have a Kinnectless Xbox One and the price is 299 or 349 at launch! Now, that would definitely change the tide in regards to SALES. But for me, it would mean that Kinnect may not be utilized as well as I would like. One thing is for sure. Kinnect 2 is a huge leap over Kinnect 1 and Kinnect 1 was 129. Kinnect 2 if sold separately would be at least $150 to $200 dollars.
They've said a lot of things with stern and backbone, and then we got the original 180.
MS stood firm on many things since they announced X1 and have done a 180 on almost all of it. So... there goes that logic.
Microsoft is the back flip king. If sales are low. I see a kinectless X1 in their future.
Exactly, they want as many Kinects out there as they can, why not offload a bunch on the day oners.
M$ seems to be learning the hard way. Clearly they underestimated the gaming community with their betrayal policies for the xbone. the 180's are good,even though its not cos of consumers they are doing them(cos of d clear signs dat sony is dominating) thanks to sony for keeping it real. MS needs to do A LOT to get back on the good side of gamers.
And some consumers will never trust them again, no matter what.
Do a barrel roll! ...I mean a 180 :) (btw try to search "do a barrel roll" in google ;) )
Yea so now it would be a great thing if they have a cheaper kinectless SKU yea..? What happened to the "I actually WANT Kinect, it makes it much more technologically superior to the PS4"?? Such a crock of dung, you guys don't know what you want.. or if you do, it isn't the same 'One' as last wk. Pfffft
I can't see Microsoft announcing a price drop of any kind at this point. They would get mad hate over it considering so many people have already preordered at the $500 price. That is, unless they would honor the cheaper price and refund the extra money people have already spent. Then they would probably be the most loved company in the world.
It's not like the people who preordered have product in hand. Of course they could get their money back. If Microsoft and retailers didn't return the money, that'd be a lawsuit waiting to happen. It wouldn't make them all that loved, either. That's just a matter of course: it's what they SHOULD do, should they drop the price pre-release.
I doubt it. People say this as if a lot of resources and money haven't gone into the Kinect 2.0 already. What are they going to do, drop it? Okay, now how do you recoup your losses on R&D? What is the stand alone Kinect going to sell for? $200? That's probably what you'd be looking at if they dropped the price of the X1 to below that of the PS4. The other option is that they would do a smaller price drop on the X1 to subsidize selling standalone Kinects for a lower price. Then there's the issue of developers. What do you do with all of these assurances you have made to developers that Kinect 2.0 would ship with every X1? What do you do with games already in development that rely on it? Say they do drop a Kinect-less sku. That's going to cause confusion for those consumers that don't frequent gaming sites constantly. They've been led to believe that Kinect is an essential part of the X1 experience. MS would have a PR nightmare on its hands from people upset they bought the $500 sku unaware that there was a Kinect-less $400 model, and clueless parents that bought the $400 model only to hear Lil' Jimmy cry about how his Xmas has been ruined because he was looking forward to the Kinect. Lastly, removing the Kinect does not make this a PS4. It makes X1 a weaker gaming console that no longer has a gimmick to sell people on to make up for its weaker specs. They can take the connect out, but they've already sacrificed system specs to include it. That's not going to change.
It seems Microsoft is doing everything they can to turn around the bad press they gave themselves when they announced the machine. Honestly? Good on them. They are making the console look more attractive and giving players to buy it. Personally, it still won't make a difference to me, as I don't much care for their exclusives. But news like this is good for them, and for the fans. Hopefully they do well, and keep the industry healthy with lots of competition (only us gamers benefit). And OT.... seriously doubtful. They won't sell it without Kinect. Given what they have said about it being integral to the platform, and like LeCreuset says above, R&D alone will keep it with the platform. MAYBE down the line, in 2-3 years. But not soon.
I'll buy the Xbox One... ...if Microsoft apologizes for assuming we're all thieves.
It should be cheaper since it has cheaper system specs.
Think about it u know how much money microsoft spent making Kinect 2.0 and then release the console without is actually a little bit of suicide since most people have already said they don't want kinect so most wont buy it separately so i see a loss in profit.
It was suicide to put so much effort into it in the first place.now Kinect is dragging down sales that could have been theirs.
Even if it's cheaper, PS4 is more worth it.
It will end up being cheaper after the Holidays because they can't sell enough... and need to sell more... they have done everything they could to change what the XO was... and they have not only scared off consumers but have broken off all trust... They told us they could not flip a switch, that everything was Hardwire in... The Camera, and the DRM... 2 days after saying this over and over again... they flipped that switch and changed the DRM and now the Camera... the too largest things in the WTF column... So as easily this was... Consumers are scared that they will one day flip that switch again.. 2nd point and most likely the reason for every thing... Microsoft treated gamers and consumers as if they were mindless morons, That flashing some Halo here and there, that consumers would do anything to play it... That we gamers would give up consumer rights to play their games or we were to stupid to know the BS they were shovelling was just that..... We would fall for their marketing scams.... Only reason they changed was because consumers said NO to there product and they risk loosing everything they have put into this product line...
I doubt it. MS aren't known for being the cheapest especially when you consider the additional kit you will need such as chargers and extra controllers. I hope they keep the package as it is with a Kinect included in all SKUs. It would be a step too far to remove it as it would then just be a PS4 in a bigger box with an HDMI in. After all when was the last time the PS4 Eye was mentioned.... its nearly forgotten about already. Keep the product unique and differentiated from the competition please MS.
Could not agree more, people will say that its good that they are listening to what the consumers say and for the most part I would agree with that. But reality is they where from the begining and continue to be arrogant about the choices they've made. Then they wonder why theyre pre orders are lagging behind PS4 and why they catch so much flack. I dare anybody defending their strategy to say this is the BEST way to launch a product, be it a console, movie, car, cell phone, whatever. Ask anybody putting out a multi million dollar product if this is how you do things. This has been a disaster from the moment that now former MS talking head said " everything around is connected all the time, deal with it ! "
Kinect will not be sold separately and there won't be a $350 console. You people can sleep better now. :)
If you guys really believe Microsoft's original polices for the Xbox One was only for their system and Sony had no such desires for the PS4 you are smoking so good stuff. Don't think for a second Sony wasn't going to do this and don't think for a second the developers did not urge Sony and Microsoft to do this. Sony is a desperate company right now and they are doing things unlike themselves. Sony NEVER comes out with a system that is cheaper then it's competition. Sony never lets the other company reveal first at E3. Everything Sony did this time around with the PS4 was strategic and it was like they new every move Microsoft was doing and did just the opposite. Sony was going to do the same thing as Microsoft or acted like they were and did a 180 at the last moment (they did this on purpose) They left Microsoft hanging in the wind by themselves at E3 and it was clear Microsoft was caught off guard. Don't believe Sony cares about the gamers. Sony is desperate and are in cut throat mode and has pissed a lot of people off behind closed doors. Ultimately, the goal here was to destroy the influence of GameStop for they are the real enemy to the industry and gamers. They price gauge used games all day and fanboys take it up the butt yet don't complain! Microsoft was trying to wean us away from GameStop policies which would have created a purchasing environment similar to STEAM and it would have been beautiful. We won't see this now due to fanboys and Sony's desperation.
Right... because restricting trade-ins to "authorized retailers" (eg GameStop) is a way to "wean" gamers. BTW... gotta love the "Sony was gonna do the same thing!" stuff. I'm sure a little while back you were one of the "Sony IS going to do the same thing!" fellas. Didn't work out that way for ya, did it? I guess you're in a better position now that you can claim something unprovable, instead of claiming something that can be disproven in the future.
Show proof sony was planning this and backed out at the last minute. until then I choose to beleive they gave a shit about their customers
But it isn't.
I'd probably still go with the more powerful PS4 at $400 given that both require online subscriptions, I prefer PSN Plus's attitude towards free and highly discounted content. I've been burned and exploited by MS way to much this gen - my 360 literally makes me feel bad, it's worthless without Live and I can't bring myself to support MS business practices any more, specifically offering no additional content but requiring that you pay for it anyways. Timed exclusives don't count, free games do. I only prefered my 360 because so many multiplats ran better on it. I still hated MS rip-off scams but I wanted the better game and couldn't be bothered with PC gaming. Well not anymore M$
"Xbox One Could be Cheaper than PS4" But never more powerful.
Yeah, that'll happen when The Last Guardian is out. Oh wait...
I am now seriously debating if I should keep my pre-order and wait for a non Kinect SKU. ONLY because I never plan to use it and my setup just doesn't work for Kinect. So it doesn't fit for me. If I buy The $500 XB1 I'm sort of wasting $100 or more for a camera I'll leave in the box. I know MSFT says No to a SKU BUT, let's look at how they have been, they change their minds a lot lately. IF PS4 really outsells the XB1, I'm confident MSFT WILL then launch a Kinect less bundle. After all, they seem to be listening to us lately.
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