230°
Submitted by Shadowolf 390d ago | opinion piece

60fps? Don’t Believe the Hype

One should expect a game like Madden Football to play at 60fps because it’s simulating a live sporting event while a game such as HALO or Killzone on the other hand, is better presented as 30fps which is closer to 24fps resulting in a cinematic look.

Of course this is all subject to artistic interpretation, vision, and the imagination of the developers. They ultimately choose how to make their respective games, all I ask is for developers not to take advantage of the ignorant gamers who fall for the ‘big number’ marketing and also not to give into fanboys who constantly fan the flames of this ignorant 60fps type of thinking. (Battlefield 4, Call of Duty: Ghosts, Halo 4, PS3, PS4, Xbox 360, Xbox One)

Prcko  +   390d ago
30 is enough
malokevi  +   390d ago
Quality over quantity.
ShinMaster  +   390d ago
I see the author's point and I agree that 60 or 30fps does not determine the game's quality, worth or validity.

When it comes down to it, I prefer solid 30fps in games like Uncharted or Last Of Us which run pretty smoothly instead of pushing for 60fps with physics and lighting taking a hit.

What matters most to me is frame rate consistency.
For example, Ryse http://youtu.be/VzVlVRe9QYI... runs at 30fps but it tends to have drops and people say it looks the best of all E3 games.
#1.1.1 (Edited 390d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(9) | Report
WrAiTh Sp3cTr3  +   390d ago
"30 is enough"
Oh really?

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

and...this

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

Be sure to use Google Chrome.
#1.1.2 (Edited 390d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(16) | Report
Kietz  +   390d ago
I read that as "graphic over gameplay" which, in every other conversation on this site, as far as I have seen, should apparently not be the case.
It was like how I felt about the majority of console games at the end of this gen, where I was seeing sub-hd resolutions and sluggish framerates.
I would have largely preferred proper clarity and overall smoothness over pushing consoles beyond their limits engine-wise and hitting them in the areas mentioned.
Games feel better around 60 frames. 30 is simply passable and anyone who plays at those speeds regularly know there is a huge difference.
Where are all the DmC whiners that were complaining that it only ran at 30?
#1.1.3 (Edited 390d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(3) | Report
JokesOnYou  +   390d ago
While I love Halo I dont think its genuine to say 30fps is a artistic choice for a more cinematic look. NO, system limitations and game design are why its 30fps and its a good choice rather than cutbacks in other areas to make it 60fps. Bottom line is 30fps is fine but 60fps is better, at this point I think 60fps should be the target fps for all shooters, racers, sports and of course fighting games.
XmarksDaSPOT   390d ago | Spam
ShinMaster  +   390d ago
@ disagrees

60fps is obviously better than 30fps. We know that.
But my point point is, if 60fps comes at the cost of physics, lighting, etc taking a hit, then I'd rather the game be in 30fps. In which case, it better be a pretty consistent 30 frames with virtually no drops or stutters.
HammadTheBeast  +   390d ago
Only when the graphics look damn amazing and can rival high-end PC's.
AngelicIceDiamond  +   390d ago
30 is enough but if 60 is achievable, then you can do no wrong.
logan_izer10  +   390d ago
As the article touches on. It's a preference. Not all games should be aiming for 60. Killzone:SF will be just fine at 30/1080p. But sometimes... 60fps looks so dang smooth.
Shadowolf  +   390d ago
Yes it does!
SlapHappyJesus  +   390d ago
FPS is THE genre, if any, that should be pushing for 60 frames.
Pandamobile  +   390d ago
"HALO or Killzone on the other hand, is better presented as 30fps which is closer to 24fps resulting in a cinematic look."

Hahahahaha.

Choosing to target 30 FPS is not an "artistic" choice. Games don't look more cinematic by having lower framerates - that's absurd. Every time console game production is started, developers will sit down and discuss what their goals for this game are.

Last generation, you couldn't make a game look very pretty and run at 60 FPS, so cutbacks were made. COD is the best example of that; targeting 60 FPS on consoles at the cost of graphics.

Now that the new generation has arrived, console game developers suddenly have a lot more room to add pretty graphics AND target 60 FPS. I can pretty much gurarantee that Guerrilla Games didn't want KZ:SF to run at 30 FPS. Their initial target was certainly 60 FPS, but had to drop that when they realized that they couldn't achieve the level of graphical fidelity they had intended.

There's never been a single moment in my 15+ years of gaming that I've ever thought to myself: "Damn, this game would be SO much better if it was running at a slower framerate".
Shadowolf  +   390d ago
Then you may have never played COD. Ultimately, I believe what the author is getting at is the balancing act of framerate and overall performance.

Since you've been gaming for 15 years I would assume with your experience you understand that a higher framerate doesn't make for a better game, and that is the point being made.

In COD's defense, running at 60fps is perfect for what the game does however, as we can clearly understand, the game offers a shooting gallery affair with dumbed down enemy A.I. for it campaigns while offering a more intimate MP encounters mainly played on smaller maps - All at the expense of 60fps.

There is a trade-off. On the other hand, games like Killzone and HALO can afford to offer larger more cinematic eye-candy b/c of a solid framerate and 30fps has been that mark this gen. Next-gen due to the CPU and GPU horsepower we should begin to see more games at the 60fps mark. Yet, I would always take quality over quantity any day of the week.
#3.1 (Edited 390d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(6) | Report | Reply
Pandamobile  +   390d ago
"higher framerate doesn't make for a better game"

It doesn't make the game better, but it does make the overall experience better. You have faster response times and smoother motion. Obviously, trade-offs have to be made in order to achieve higher frame rates on consoles, but 99% of those trade-offs are visuals. You don't have to dumb down your AI in order to up the frame rate.
#3.1.1 (Edited 390d ago ) | Agree(11) | Disagree(5) | Report
wishingW3L  +   390d ago
what a joke. /facepalm
Shadowolf  +   390d ago
"It doesn't make the game better, but it does make the overall experience better."

Not necessarily - Sure smoother motion and quicker responses are direct result of a faster frame rate but is that always the best results? I have to say no. Oh and yes a faster rate because of the added CPU stress does subtract from other gameplay influences which are depending on the resources at the devs disposal.

However, as I mentioned before this may more than likely change for the better beginning with large scale MP battles presented in BF4 which is running at 60fps. You're right, it is a trade-off.
Pandamobile  +   390d ago
You have no idea what you're talking about. When you're dealing with ANYTHING interactive, you always want to minimize the time it takes between a user action and a program's response.

60 FPS > 30 FPS. It's as simple as that. There is no other scenario where a developer would choose 30 over 60 other than to maximize graphical fidelity.

AI computations are generally asynchronous, which means they can be updated at a lower rate than the rendering output. Physics are also asynchronous, and are often updated at a higher rate than rendering output.

30 FPS is not an artistic choice, it's a technical limitation.
#5.1 (Edited 390d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
Shadowolf  +   390d ago
I actually do - You're correct in stating that 30fps is a technical limitation however, it isn't a bad limitation. It is a tradeoff.

While a faster response time is accompanied with a higher framerate oftentimes it is at he expense of adding multi-layered shadows, wind and particle effects, and levels that changed in real time.

Check out what 343 Industries had to say about being locked 30fps.

Kiki Wolfkill, Halo 4’s executive producer explains - “We are full 720p this time around; we are 30fps, which we have always been. For us, making sure we are locked at 30fps is the priority and that those large-scale encounters feel good.”

She goes on to say “This version of the engine is based off the Halo: Reach engine but we’ve done ton of work on it and in some cases rebuilt whole parts of it from scratch. That was driven early on by the parts of the game we really wanted to invest in.”

“Lighting, is certainly one of them, AI is another and audio, too. Areas where we really wanted to push beyond what had been done before and some of those systems have been extensively rebuilt.”

Apparently at 60fps their vision of HALO 4 would not have been possible on a current gen console of course.
Pandamobile  +   390d ago
Yeah, it's a trade-off due to technical limitations.

Your quotes from 343 don't mean anything. We already know that you can't do Halo 4 at 60 FPS on an Xbox 360. The hardware is not fast enough. One might say it's a (wait for it) "limitation".
Hicken  +   390d ago
Lower framerate will ALWAYS be an artistic choice, because you can ALWAYS cut framerate for improved graphical fidelity. Doesn't matter if we're talking about dropping to 30fps, or dropping to 200fps; if you want more graphical fidelity, you will cut framerate to achieve that.

There's no scenario where you can have ALL the graphical fidelity you want AND ALL the framerate you want. To make no sacrifices would require technology without limitations. And since that doesn't exist, there's no point in trying to state it as a technical limitation.

30fps IS an artistic choice, and only that.
Pandamobile  +   390d ago
The argument was that 30 FPS is the artistic choice, because some people believe that a frame rate closer to that of film is somehow more cinematic.

Aiming for 30 FPS is a compromise of game play in exchange for increased visuals.
SlapHappyJesus  +   390d ago
Sorry, but I have recently got into PC gaming after spending my life playing on consoles.
Games feel and play a lot better at 60. It's as simple as that. Some games are fine hitting under that, but not the majority.
Games, going back from 60, really do feel sluggish and inaccurate.
AgentSmithPS4  +   390d ago
Riddle me this, why can't game makers let people choose in the options menu if they want 60fps or 30fps. Have two options, shiny pretty mode and ok looking fast mode. I remember in left 4 dead on the pc i made things look ugly so my slow pc wouldn't get me killed.
dcj0524  +   390d ago
Exactly. I don't see whats so hard about that.
mmj  +   390d ago
One of the main reasons developers target 30fps is because they don't have to spend as much time on optimisation, plus if they added a 60fps mode then those people running 30fps would be at a disadvantage online.
AznGaara  +   390d ago
As long as games don't dip below 30fps I'm good but honestly I wouldn't go as far as to call it an artistic choice. The Witcher 2's art style is an artistic choice and at 30fps it's beautiful but at 60fps on Ultra it's gorgeous. I personally like the fluidity of 60fps. It' definitely makes it "feel" more like a videogame than a "cinematic" experience and I'm fine with that.
manageri   390d ago | Spam
fsfsxii  +   390d ago
I want to believe.
eman3d  +   390d ago
As a director of visual story telling, which video games are a part of, you have to decide how you want to present your story. Anyone who know anything about movie production understands the effect different frame rates will have on the look of the movie. None of the comments posted in response to this article addresses this fact.

Any movie you watch at a theater is playing at 24 frames per second anything faster then that and a movie will no longer look like a movie. Thus the point of this article- the director and producer of any video game made decides if they want their game to either look more like a movie which is 24fps or like a video which is 60fps. It's an artistic choice as with any visual medium that tells a story.

You guys seem to think a game or system that can not play a game at 60fps is due to limitations, which may be true in some cases, but is not the standard by which all games should strive for because it's an artistic choice.

The easiest example I can think of is the following: As a fan of movies and a fan of video games, my ultimate dream is for video games to look and play exactly like a movie. For me to turn on a game like Spiderman and it looks no different then it's theatrical counterpart, that would be the ultimate standard for a video game. For this to happen, the system would have to play back the game at 30fps (24fps seconds would be the best) It's as simple as that, anything faster and it looks more like recorded video.

If you still can't comprehend this play any of your favorite movie in your blu rey player and set it at 60fps and notice how 'video game like' the movie begins to look, especially if the movie has cg character such as a super hero or creatures. These animated assets no longer look realistic and begin to look like a video game which in not a good thing.

60fps is a product of geek talk and not artist. Most geeks have no clue on theatrical principles and put their focus on amounts of ram and frame rates. They can fix a computer in their sleep but have no clue about story telling, color theory, photography, lighting, etc. Due to the technological advancements video games are now built more and more on the same principles of Hollywood movies. These principles are hard coded rules which include frame rates for cinema vs frame rates for video. If you want your game or movie to look like what's on the big screen at your local theatre then 60fps is NOT what is needed.
manageri   390d ago | Spam
BallsEye  +   390d ago
Gotta correct you there. Halo 5 was announced to run in 60 FPS. E3 dude.
kakashi81  +   390d ago
@shinmaster, how can 60 fps have bad physics??? last time I checked that was apart of having good physics.

I'm sorry, I know the difference between 60fps DMC4 vs 30 DMC reboot.
#12.1 (Edited 390d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
BallsEye  +   390d ago
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

To whoever disagreed. Halo 5 runs in 60 fps and it's a fact. Look it up. Stop disagreeing because you don't want other consoles to have good games, fanboys.
solidboss07  +   390d ago
This gen (PS3/360) 1080p @60fps - not actually 1080p I know - was exceptional, even 720p @30fps was good. Next gen 1080p @60fps will be the standard from decent studios, no reason for software to fail in reaching this target. Launch window games are struggling but a couple of years in and most games of quality will be 1080p @60fps.
Some people seem to believe that as the next gen progresses more and more titles shall be forced back to 1080p @30fps or 720p @60fps but this is the reverse of how things will be moving forwards.
PS4 games at1080p and 60fps, no worries.
BallsEye  +   390d ago
Maybe in the future we will see more 60 FPS games on ps4. So far the one's that were shown are 30 FPS except multiplatforms like battlefield or call of duty. Drive club killzone and infamous sport 30 fps unfortunately.
manageri   390d ago | Spam
Mkai28  +   390d ago
60 frames just make things look and feel better all around.. Boishock has the feature where you can change it from 30fps to 60fps.. There is screen tearing by this, but they give you the option..
60fps is like standard definition to HD.. It's a big difference..
Destrania  +   390d ago
For me it really depends on the game. I think a lot of games are perfect at a solid 30fps like TLoU, God of War, etc. and then some other games are perfect for 60fps like Burnout, etc.
#15 (Edited 390d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Hufandpuf  +   389d ago
Lets compare BF3 on consoles to BF3 on PC for a second. I think EVERYONE on console would have loved the game even more if it were running @60fps. Never have I heard someone say that having lower frames is better. For a movie maybe, but a game? no.
eman3d  +   389d ago
Would you guys rather a video game to look exactly like a movie or a great looking video game???

If you were at the movies watching the new Star Wars and during the movie they paused it, handed you a controller, and told you to now play it as a game and there was no difference from the game and the movie- that would be mind blowing and can only be done at 30fps.

If the goal is for a game to look EXACTLY like a cinematic movie then 30fps is a must- if that's the goal. It has NOTHING to do with how fast a cpu is, it's about cinematography.

There's too many computer geeks making comments and are confused about cinematography and technology and don't realize making video games is no different then making a blockbuster movie which is a beautiful thing.
vinniects  +   385d ago
what you just said makes no sense to me. if halfway through a new star wars it switch to a video game it would still be better at 60fps than 30 fps. the human eye can't tell the difference between the two anyway. that's why movies stop at 24 fps does not make sense for a movie to go faster. But 60 fps second response time for controls is way better than 30 fps. you almost made it sound like going from 30 fps to 60 fps was like hitting the fast forward button on a vcr.

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