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Submitted by doctorstrange 358d ago | news

The PS4′s “Big Challenge” is its AMD Chip that “Heavily Relies on Multi-Threading,” Says PS2 Dev

When it comes to actually getting the game up and running on PS4, as opposed to PC, Matt talked about how “the PS4 is a lot easier because you have a consistent set of hardware that you’re optimizing against. It really is a challenge to optimize high-end PC games to be able to work on the pantheon of hardware that’s available to players nowadays, it’s just insane.” - PSLS (PC, Planetside 2, PS4)

Update PlanetSide Engine’s “Big Challenge” is that AMD Chip “Heavily Relies on Multi-Threading”, “Not Something all Developers Will Have as a Hurdle”

AcesHigh291  +   358d ago
Multiple cores requiring multi-threading? Who knew.
wishingW3L  +   358d ago
the point is that their engine doesn't fully supports it and it just took advantage of Intel's raw power. Now they are forced to optimize for multi-threading on the PS4 because unlike PC consoles don't have much raw power so they have to optimize... And if you read his quote, he said that at the end this would benefit PC gamers too because the game would finally take advantage of the multi-threading tech on PC's CPUs.
NewMonday  +   358d ago
the big point here is that PC games on AMD GPUs will improve a lot, this might tilt the balance away from inVidia in the future.
#1.1.1 (Edited 358d ago ) | Agree(29) | Disagree(36) | Report
Bobbo44  +   358d ago
@newmonday

This has nothing to do with GPUs. If you meant CPUs, it has nothing to do with Nvidia. If you meant CPUs and Intel, then Intel will also benefit from this. Intel has 8 threads on their quad core CPUs (i7) in which they will also benefit a lot from games better use of multiple threads. Not only that, but individual cores on Intel CPUs are faster.
starchild  +   358d ago
I've been thinking since the specs were leaked that the relatively weak 8 core Jaguar CPUs in the PS4 and XB1 would require a shift towards highly parallelized work loads. There is no other way to get satisfactory performance out of those processors.

This could end up being a point of weakness in the consoles if developers don't do a really good job learning to multi-thread their engines.

By and large, though, it should result in engines that take much better advantage of the multi-core processors in PCs and consoles.
wishingW3L  +   358d ago
"People who have AMD chips have a disadvantage, because a single core on an AMD chip doesn’t really have as much horsepower (as an Intel's)"

"Our engine sucks at that right now. We are multi-threaded, but the primary gameplay thread is very expensive. The biggest piece of engineering work that they’re doing right now, is to go back through the engine and re-optimize it to be really, truly multi-threaded"
---------

This has nothing to do with GPU. They are talking about the fact that each core on an Intel CPU is more powerful than AMD's. So to achieve better performance they have to optimize by spreading tasks through every core. And at the end, everybody will benefit, console and PC.
#1.1.4 (Edited 358d ago ) | Agree(14) | Disagree(0) | Report
ShinMaster  +   358d ago
Seems like it's a challenge in a good way (?)
nypifisel  +   358d ago
That's just sad. We've had mutli-core CPUs for so long now that the engines really should be catered towards using them.
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Ju  +   358d ago
8 threads on intel's quad core give you almost no advantage over 4 threads (as long is there is a single memory transfer involved). In most cases you could get a minimal benefit of running 6, but 8 threads are as fast as 4. Tested my self. You could probably gain a little by keeping data close to the CPU (caches), but otherwise hyper threading is no replacement for real cores.

Console developers were force thinking parallel since the current gen, otherwise the 360s tri core or PS3's SPUs would be under-utilized and we would not see the games we have. It amazes me, that we still have game developers (probably mainly working on PCs) which do not split task into multiple parallel work loads.
#1.1.7 (Edited 358d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(4) | Report
Kleptic  +   357d ago
^no offense, but it amazes 'you', as in...how involved are you with active game development, and in particular...overhead costs?

difficulty in writing parallel processing isn't anything new...and the biggest problem with it is lack of standardized middleware, at least in the gaming sense...

Sony has attempted to combat this issue internally through SCE and shared development cycles (a program they used to call EDGE, which was available to third parties around 2010)...Santa Monica studio's heavily utilized both Naughty Dog's asset streaming tech, as well as Guerilla's killzone 2 based lighting engine...for GoW 3...

The problem with parallel processing is simply return on investment...Clock speeds, and therefor heat output and energy consumption, weere reaching critical mass years ago...and the answer has been multiple cores and multi-threading...in which multiple instruction sets are carried out on the same amount of electricity...architecturally, this is huge...and extremely efficient...its just that its nearly impossible to ring out...the amount of time it takes to squeeze, optimize, and reduce redundancy is exponentially higher than if you are just running a single instruction set per cycle...

and that time..is money...and in the case of something like the PS3...all that extra parallel processing ability the cpu had, was still hampered by limited video resources...you could spend millions to get slightly better physics, or more complex lighting effects...but effects like that are relatively subtle...compared to a major bump to resolution and AA...and with an industry obsessed with comparing screen shots, static texture detail, and other things completely unrelated to what the game looks like while actually being played...i can't say i blame any developer for taking so long to come around on massive research on parallel code writing...
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Ju  +   357d ago
"Parallel Jobs" is what gaming is all about. Threading alone will not solve the problem because a careless designed multi threading model will quickly saturate the cores. Locking and synchronization will rape all the benefits of multiple cores fast.

With that said, game developers have started using jobs instead of "just" threads which give you much better granularity over what gets scheduled and when. In this respect it is irrelevant if you have coherent or non-coherent cores (e.g. SPUs). In fact, the SPUs are easier to "prototype" with, because you won't run into latency issues with threads and you are closer to the metal and still have total control over the cores themselves.

A really good example is Killzone SF (at least what is known today) where the "job manager" from previous titles was ported to the APU and even more tasks are now handled by jobs.

A lot of work was done on PS3 first an backported to the 360 because of this. And it benefited both. Interestingly, it seamed to be more expensive (cost wise) to implement this on the 360 than PS3 - simply because there is no middle where which does job handling for you. Sony at least offers SPURS.
awi5951  +   357d ago
@Bobbo44

AMD cpus run better for the cost than the intel chips. Intels usually beat them in single core but the amd cheaper cpus win in multithreaded aps. People who do video processing or run servers like the AMD chips for the cost you get way more for those uses.
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mantell   357d ago | Spam
Oner  +   357d ago
When you got a Naughty Dog dev praising it saying ~

"the amount of parallel execution available is just nutso. Like SPUs you need to change your thinking, but when you do..."

Source ~ https://twitter.com/cowbs/s...

It's quite important and something to keep an eye out for this next gen coming up.
#1.1.12 (Edited 357d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(2) | Report
SegaSaturn669  +   357d ago
I think the really challenge here is containing the power of god in a small box.
RedHawkX  +   358d ago
this is why pc gamers need to support the ps4 and bash the xbox one. no one who cares about pc gaming should ever be saying anything good about the xbox one at this point. the only way your pc games will look better and be better if we all support the ps4. sony fans, pc fans, and wii fans need to unite for a better gaming future wii u fans jump on ps4 bandwagon so the wii u lives because people will get the ps4 and the wii u instead of xbox one and ps4. gamers need to be smart about console choices and choose the one best for gaming and trash talk the one thats worse for gaming and xbox one is the worst.
starchild  +   358d ago
Nothing you said makes a bit of sense nor relates in any way to the subject of the article.
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RedHawkX   358d ago | Personal attack | show
The_Sneauxman  +   358d ago
dude you have two bubbles... Soon may be ONE and then you and the Xbox ONE will have something in common which parallelically we bash you.

This is N4G, anything can happen
#1.2.3 (Edited 358d ago ) | Agree(15) | Disagree(5) | Report
CrossingEden  +   358d ago
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The fanboyism in your comment is just....sad, seriously, there is not a single logical thought in that post. You are the definition of a fanboy.
JP1369  +   358d ago
I have my PS4 pre-ordered. Having said that, people like you should be neutered. Funny that you mention intellect in your second post, as it seems to be the very thing for which you are lacking entirely.
BlasterGR  +   358d ago
How old are you son?
Maddens Raiders  +   358d ago
@RedHawkX - I ready your post I nearly wet myself laughing at the level of defense force in your words. I understand your passion but you have to express yourself in a more mature, logical way. Thanks anyway!
Bluepowerzz  +   358d ago
agreed the neutral fakers who try to act like gods round here are xbots too
Koyes  +   358d ago
I would tell you to get a life but I figured that an 11 year old won't have much going for him/her anyway
gamertk421  +   358d ago
SDF level = Legendary
GodGinrai  +   357d ago
"this is why pc gamers need to support the ps4 and bash the xbox one. no one who cares about pc gaming should ever be saying anything good about the xbox one at this point"

LMAO!!..Or PC gamers can just say they are held back by two nextgen consoles that are stuck with "underpowered" laptop CPUs.

I own an intel core i7 (2600K OC @ 4.2GHz mated to a gigabyte z68-UD7 MOBO and 16GB of ram..oh and a ASUS/nvidia 560Ti TOP)that I use to make music on and play the odd game. I DONT expect ANY PS4 or Xbox game to look as good as does on my PC. Im still buying both though. I wont blame either console if PC gameing ges "held back" Ill just blame the devs for bothering with a console port. I think that is the stance most PC gamers will take on this. They wont pick a side just to suit your agenda,Redhawx.

" sony fans, pc fans, and wii fans need to unite for a better gaming future wii u fans jump on ps4 bandwagon so the wii u lives because people will get the ps4 and the wii u instead of xbox one and ps4"

Really?...im not gonna dignify this with a response...
awi5951  +   357d ago
MY pc games were going to look better than the PS4's anyway by default. My gpu is more powerful than whats in the PS4 and i have two of them so it was never contest.
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Belking  +   357d ago
The hate is strong in this one...lol
givemeshelter  +   357d ago
RedHawk...Did you go full retard?
Mithan  +   357d ago
You are an idiot.
ZHZ90  +   357d ago
Even though I am getting PS4, but the way you talk is immature.

Btw bashing XBO won't change people's, who want XBO, mind.
RachelNSmith   358d ago | Spam
annus  +   358d ago
Multi-threading is related to a single core, not multiple cores. It's one core using multiple threads.

You can have a single core that uses multi-threading, or multiple cores that don't use multi-threading.
dogdirt2000  +   357d ago
Wait... What?!

Are you thinking of hardware multi-threading/SMT here instead of software multi-threading?
CrusRuss  +   357d ago
Ummmm... No dude. Threading refers to developing code that can be run in parallel across multiple cores (either physical or virtual cores, like hyperthreading).

If you writes two threads to run on one core, they are taking turns to run, thus giving you no advantage.
pedrof93  +   358d ago
"they are looking at being able to transfer your character from PC to PS4 or PS4 to PC"

This is nice. It would help me very much.
saber00005  +   358d ago
@newmonday, I hate to break it to you, if it's any company that will die out, it would be AMD. They have been struggling to keep up with their competitors. This is coming from a previous AMD user...
PSN_ZeroOnyx  +   357d ago
AMD in every PS4 and X1, they are doing ok at the moment.
saber00005  +   357d ago
@PSN_ZeroOnyx, Yes their sales will be OK for now, however... Their technology is behind. Just like Apple. Do they have USB 3.0 yet? NOPE.. :P
GraveLord  +   357d ago
PS4 + Xbox One will heavily benefit PC Gaming as multiple cores will finally be taken advantage of.

I think all gamers should be excited about this coming generation.
Hitman0769  +   357d ago
Derpologist. Derpology is strong in this one (PS2 Dev). Lolcakes, roflcopters, roflwaffles.

@CrossingEden bubbled like you've never been bubbled before son.
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JsonHenry  +   357d ago
This is really a boon for all PC gamers. FINALLY we are going to get native x64, fully multi-threaded, and optimized games on the PC to really show off what they've been capable of for a while but the dev community has yet to provide.
kevnb  +   357d ago
that was more an issue of dx9, and too many gamers being slow to upgrade past 8800/9800 graphics.
3-4-5  +   357d ago
Damn that GBC and it's reliance on Color.
kevnb  +   357d ago
single core performance is weak compared to intel, and the processors the next gen consoles are using are weak for 2013 period.
ftwrthtx  +   358d ago
And that is why I wish all gaming platforms had been PC based last gen. Could you imagine where the developers would be now if the PS3 used an Intel or AMD chip?

Gaming would have been growing in leaps and bounds instead of baby steps.
HemDeviance  +   358d ago
Uh, the problem (from the article) is that the main game thread is quite expansive, as it was written for an Intel CPU.

It doesn't have anything at all to do with current-gen consoles, only splitting and optimizing the (always PC, never console) main thread to run across multiple threads, increasing the performance on AMD-based systems.

I have no idea where you're getting this PowerPC vs x86 processor thing.
Gster  +   358d ago
To save the confusion, I would have lovin to see your comment at the top of the pile. Makes perfect sense.
FrigidDARKNESS  +   358d ago
Sony is a non HSa member so the ps4 uses the AMD Kabini that is not as good at multi core threading like the HSA Kaveri.

http://www.theinquirer.net/...
M-M  +   358d ago | Well said
Hey look what I found.

http://www.fudzilla.com/hom...

Also, just in case you try to say it's fake, last paragraph from the HSA foundation themselves. Troll harder ;).

http://hsafoundation.com/ab...
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NewMonday  +   358d ago
FrigidDARKNESS gets owned big time
FrigidDARKNESS  +   358d ago
Nope, sony not a member if they were they wouldnt be using the Kabini cpu.
As of now nothing has been announced .
FlameHawk  +   358d ago
@ FrigidDARKNESS, you are really bad a trolling.
fr0sty  +   358d ago
"Today, those numbers swell to 23 as Sony, ST-Ericsson and STMicroelectronics joined up as contributors to the Foundation. "

Let's just ignore reality and then make some stuff up. Keep the fail rolling, it's getting hilarious.
Metfanant  +   358d ago
@FrigidDARKNESS...

so you're saying that the HSA foundation website is lying?? Because I clearly see Sony listed as a member...
pyramidshead  +   358d ago
This was some epic ownage. I brought this up in another thread too :P.

Sony even appear under the contributors section of the members list ;).
http://gyazo.com/ffce0418e7...
http://gyazo.com/e70b9affee...
http://gyazo.com/bacbcf8e22...
http://gyazo.com/748226d17b...
http://gyazo.com/71ed425b09...
Here's a beginners guide on how frigid is wrong :P
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ABeastNamedTariq  +   357d ago
GOT 'EM!

Lol..but seriously I applaud you for putting him in his place.
Hicken  +   358d ago
You've been spamming this comment around all over, knowing full well it was a lie.

Why?
JulieBurgos01   358d ago | Spam
GameCents  +   358d ago
off topic. Hicken. Real classy, to lose a PM debate and then block me before I can reply. LOL.

At least stop tracking me and replying to my every post then.
fsfsxii  +   358d ago
@gamecents
Would you stop being a douchebag for a frikkin day?? Does it itch not being able to troll or being a douche??
GameCents  +   358d ago
fsfs, yes it does, how'd you know?
Hicken  +   358d ago
Yes, I blocked you.

You bored me.

You kept using the same tired excuse, calling someone narrow-minded while being narrow-minded, yourself. You ignore what doesn't suit you, rather than giving rational explanations for why it doesn't affect your claim.

"Debating" with people who can't cope with the facts you present them is boring, so I blocked you.

Don't really care if you think you've "won." I'd already said I was done, anyway, so shouldn't you consider it "classy" that I deigned to respond to your remarks following that, anyway?

No, of course not.

And let's dispense with the false claims, while we're at it. You can likely list on one hand how many times I've replied to a comment of yours over the past month. MAYBE two hands. Which says nothing, given how many comments I've made in that time.

Whatever.
PSVita  +   358d ago
Just pack up and call it a call it a day.
JP1369  +   358d ago
"Just as the PS4 has 8GB of high-speed memory that is shared by the CPU and GPU, the Xbox One, by virtue of being based on the same APU heterogeneous system architecture (HSA), will probably be the same. In short, while there are small hardware differences between the consoles, they will ultimately have very similar performance characteristics. The PS4, with its one, big block of fast RAM, and bigger GPU, probably has the edge."

http://www.extremetech.com/...
AnteCash  +   358d ago
LOL i like when they say "bigger" GPU instead of faster.
nirwanda  +   358d ago
@antecash that's because it isn't faster it has more cu units so it can do more calculations but technologically the xbone is faster as it has the greater mhz.
Bigger is probably wrong too as they different things on the dies like ram etc.
extermin8or  +   358d ago
@nirwanda ok so both consoles are running the cpu cores at 1.6GHZ, yet the FCC passed the ps4 and said it had a maximum overall clock speed of... 2.7tGHZ(i think?) xb1 is running the gpu at 856MHZ(roughly i might be a few units out.) So the PS4's going by the FCC thing must be running at 950MHZ so actually he's right the gpu on the ps4 is faster aswell as having more CU units :p even if the extra speed is tiny ;) Someone tell the other troll btw that they are both running jaguar cores...not kaveri, kabini or any other core type :p
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CrusRuss  +   357d ago
@exterminator the FCC thing talking about the PS4s MHz was referring to frequency of the ram, it had nothing to do with the CPU core speed. This was covered a few weeks ago in the n4g comments at the time. So pls don't misrepresent that article as a fact for something it is not.
Ju  +   357d ago
I'm actually curious if the XBox is HSA in it's core. Because to the best of my knowledge it isn't. No address sharing between GPU and CPU and no UMA memory either - at least not the same way. It's SoC differs quite a bit from APUs today, so I am wondering if this even is derived from one. What we know so far it isn't. Internal bus layout, memory interface(s) etc. is quite different. eSRAM might be something AMD might add, but so far no APU has eSRAM (neither today nor on the roadmap). MoveEngines are completely custom to the XBox and probably won't fit in anywhere. The GPU seems to have a direct interconnect to the CPU, but it looks like the GPU will be heavily dependent on eSRAM.
pyramidshead  +   358d ago
they've been a member since January and are listed on the members list. It's funny though... I don't even see microsoft's logo :P
NarooN  +   358d ago
Kaveri won't be in any of the consoles. Kabini is not inside of the PS4. Both of these new consoles have Jaguar cores. You're a terrible troll.
Master-H  +   358d ago
FAIL ...lolz
reko  +   358d ago
@frigid

hey frigid its jaguar not kabini.

you fail at trolling once again..
reko  +   357d ago
@frigid

you got mad and blocked me because i posted a link that clearly says JAGUAR not kabini? LOL

and you pmd me a link that didnt make any sense haha.
Koyes  +   358d ago
Why are you dismissing factual evidence? Oh yeah, you're a fanboy, and that causes loss of logic, ignorance, delusional thoughts and lack of reasoning and understanding
pedrof93  +   358d ago
Even so Xbox ONE hardware is inferior.
andibandit  +   357d ago
Not a reply in anyway, and a sad attempt at trolling...
GraveLord  +   357d ago
Ladies and Gentleman, the PC Master Race!
TrendyGamers  +   358d ago
Planetside 2 doesn't seem to be getting much attention right now. Hopefully that changes as the release gets closer.
Pandamobile  +   358d ago
Or because it's been out for almost a year.
doctorstrange  +   358d ago
But it's awesome
Pandamobile  +   358d ago
Yes it is. Just finished an hour long battle. I took the lives of many Terran Republic scum.
JP1369  +   358d ago
I've watched a number of videos of PS2, but it's difficult to get an idea of the feel of a game unless you actually get your hands on it. In regard to how it handles, what would you compare it to?
Pandamobile  +   358d ago
It feels quite similar to Tribes: Ascend.
JP1369  +   358d ago
My only PC hardware is a laptop equipped with an i7 and integrated GPU. Needless to say, I don't get much gaming done on this thing. Are there any console games you can think of that would compare? From the videos it looks like some of the guns have recoil similar to Halo, but without as much bullet spread. I'm speaking completely out of ignorance here, as I'm not an Xbox gamer so my experience of these two games is limited to videos and the occasional game with friends, respectively.
Pandamobile  +   358d ago
Conversely, I don't know of any console games to compare it to. The shooting and movement is pretty standard, but I'm pretty sure it's the closest thing to a real war you can experience in a video game.
SpecialK  +   358d ago
@Pandamobile

You'll pay heavily for attacking the mighty Terran Republic!
Bigpappy  +   358d ago
They should have dealt with this in the current gen. The cell in the PS3 is all about threads.
Minato-Namikaze  +   358d ago
But the cell was useless remember? /s Naughty Dog is gonna have a field day with this.
wishingW3L  +   358d ago
they are primarily a PC developer and like most of them, they simply don't optimize and just rest on their laurels while the raw power of modern hardware does the rest by itself. They probably do that because Windows have restriction on low level GPU anyway, so why waste time? On top of it, multiple hardware configurations, so it has to be scalable too. Meanwhile for consoles they are forced to optimize if they don't want their games to look like PS2 games and have bad frame-rate.
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JP1369  +   358d ago
The same competition exists among PC developers, they don't get to just "rest on their laurels". If anything, PC devs have it harder since, not only are they constantly feeling their way through the forefront of technology, they also have to account for the ridiculous number of configurations that are possible.

"while the raw power of modern hardware does the rest by itself." Not even close to being true.

They already said it's multi-threaded, but that the primary gameplay thread is too much for any single core of an AMD chip to handle. This also has nothing to do with low-level GPU access, as PS2 is very much CPU bound, which was explained in the article you didn't bother to read.
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Koyes  +   358d ago
Ahh, an N4G developer. Your expertise is god like /s
Destrania  +   358d ago
Just talk to ND and they'll help you out ;-)
True_Samurai  +   358d ago
Wow are ND the only ones to rely on to give you a good game? That sucks
LordNikon  +   358d ago
Not at all. He was just saying, if you want to get help... then you might as well get help from the best.
Destrania  +   358d ago
Exactly
Destrania  +   358d ago
Not sure why I got a bunch of disagrees. Maybe people thought I was being sarcastic or something.
andibandit  +   357d ago
Cmon man, TLOU and Planetside 2, are woooorlds apart
XabiDaChosenOne  +   358d ago
Nicosia chips are freaking beast it's just that they are Sooo expensive. Sometimes I wish the PS4 would have went with an easier to develop for cell processor.
RachelNSmith   358d ago | Spam
Gster  +   358d ago
Ps4 is extremely easy to develop for. Its gone back to the Ps1 days with a time to triangle of just 1-2 months. The time required to code graphical systems at a level the hardware is capable of. The difficult PS3 was a whopping 6-12 months.
worldwidegaming  +   358d ago
Finally games companies a reason to use more cores.
In a few more years...
mmj  +   358d ago
Multiple cores was brought about mainly because of the ceiling for how far a single core could go.

The AMD 8 core in PS4/Xbone is probably slower than an Intel i3 (dual core) and much harder to develop for, so having a slow 8 core CPU which requires heavy multithreading kind of contradicts Sony's mantra of ease of development... they would have been much better off fitting a fast CPU with less cores.
#9 (Edited 358d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
extermin8or  +   358d ago
Yet no other developers have an issue with it yet?
mmj  +   357d ago
Lots of developers have problems with it primarily because gaming is better suited to less threads/more powerful cores, rather than having developers worry about juggling threads around.

You only have to compare AMD FX8350 game performance to an Intel quad core, when you take GPU bottlenecks out of the equation Intel is much faster even in so called well optimised games.

The CPU is my only criticism of PS4, they should have gone with a Intel dual core (possibly tri-core) in my view but cost/manufacturing was obviously the main factor when choosing.

Here is an article on the PS4/Xbone CPU:
http://www.mcvuk.com/news/r...

"In raw processing terms, these four Jaguar cores have slightly less than a quarter the grunt of a Core i5-3570K. It’s the same story on a core-by-core basis. Less than one quarter of the performance."

So an 8 core Jaguar is half as good as 3570K, or about the same as an Intel Pentium dual core. The trouble is to get that sort of performance you have to ensure your code is spread equally across 8 embarrassingly slow cores.
#9.1.1 (Edited 357d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(1) | Report
extermin8or  +   358d ago
Personally it sounds to me like the devs had been lazy not bothering to optimize at all for AMD cpus and utilising multi threading which would see benefits on multicore Intel Cpu's.... So I'm glad the new consoles will mean they have to sort this out and get their engine running better with multi-threading.
DevilishSix  +   357d ago
I see it being a struggle for console developers who focused on the PowerPC design of the 360 and/or the Cell design of the PS3.
dogdirt2000  +   357d ago
There seems to be confusion creeping out here with people mentioning unrelated things.

The dev is specifically talking about their 'game-play' code rather than the multi-threaded capabilities of the engine on the whole. The game-play code can be one of the hardest parts to piece out into schedule-able tasks.

A simplified example may be how we can have a massive number of different components that contribute to the game-play simulation in some way. The processing of these components each tick may lead to state changes occurring to other components/data, where they too may be processed for a different part of the simulation again, and so on and so forth. It's this potential inter-connectivity between lots of different pieces of data that can make threading game-play code extremely non-trivial (shared data, A leads to B to C to D changes, etc) to the point where keeping it mostly serial may prove to be the best strategy... at the time.

When it comes to performant multi-threading we ideally want to perform stateless functional transforms on data and keep stalls a rarity (think similar to gpus processing shaders). I mean, multi-threading ones own code isn't exactly a cakewalk anyway, and in the context of games (where we want to avoid locking, maintain high performance and be cache friendly) the data and code design requires a lot of forethought. In my opinion game-play stuff is amongst the hardest to reason about in this fashion.
#12 (Edited 357d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
Vanessa144   357d ago | Spam
killcole  +   357d ago
Before scrolling through the comments, I predict an amass of people talking about hardware manufacture when the majority really can't know as much as they claim to.

*Scrolls up*

Well I'm not wrong.
1nsomniac  +   357d ago
Am I completely wrong in saying the title of this thread was purposely manipulated to create a problem that doesn't exist & all these people have fell for it?? Surly not!!

What the article is saying is that a PS2 dev was using poor out of date game-code that wasnt programmed to run true mutlithreading as new computers do. Yet for some reason this is a fault of the PS4's new hardware thats not even released yet because it means it wont play old out of date unoptimised game-code so the poor dev is going to have to do some work for once!
#15 (Edited 357d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
taiyed80  +   357d ago
wow, so much confusion in these comments. All you need to take away from this article is that:

1. Developing for many slow cores is harder than fewer fast cores.
2. The game will run better on AMD cpus once the engine is optimized.
3. Given that Intel trounces AMD per clock, these optimizations will greatly benefit Intel cpus as well.

I think it's refreshing to hear a developer just come out and say what us hardware guys have known for a while, without any kind of fanboy spin injected.
#16 (Edited 357d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
kingduqc  +   357d ago
I really don't see why they picked up an amd chips, They are really slow compare to the intel's offering.

Quad cores nowadays can overclock to 4-4.5 ghz easely, considering consoles cpu are only clocked at 1.6-2.0 Ghz and they also have way lower IPC (instruction per flock, meaning at same clock speed they are also slower) I don't see why they picked those. Considering gaming is mostly bound to single thread due to the nature of the task at hand.
mmj  +   357d ago
Well said, I think their choice was mainly a cost/ease of manufacturing thing.
kingPoS  +   357d ago
For developers moving from the PS3 SDK, Parallel tasks & multi-threading would be a great deal more feasible thanks to hard earned experience gained from coding on the PS3.

There my be some growing pains involved for devs used not used to optimizing for CPU's with six or more cores.

End result - everyone with '6 & 8 core' setups befits.
#17 (Edited 357d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
A_Gamer  +   357d ago
I know I'm going to get dislikes for this comment lol. Both consoles uses AMD chips. Article title should read PS4 & XBOXONE's "BIGGEST CHALLENGE"
vigilante_man  +   357d ago
They have changed the title to reflect it is an issue their engine has with AMD chips even on PCs.

Reading the article reveals that the developers were doing what most software developers do and writing code not fully optimized for multi-threading.

So sloppy coding that needs to be addressed for the PS4 and then translated back to their PC version to make the game run better on AMD chips. More and more software developers need to start producing better code for multi-threaded, multi-core systems.
JillHoff4   357d ago | Spam
JunioRS101  +   357d ago
I WOULD believe this article... IF developers weren't giving PS4 all praise.
dogdirt2000  +   357d ago
They aren't knocking the PS4 though.

They are talking about the need to increase the parallelism of their engine (namely the game-play layer) to optimize for the PS4's AMD APU with a greater number of lower speed cores as opposed to the fewer higher speed cores. It's a software thing they are having an issue with, not hardware.
#21.1 (Edited 357d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
josephayal  +   357d ago
amd multiMEH! I want a PS4 no matter wut
PersonMan  +   357d ago
Canceling my pre-order now.
gk07  +   356d ago
Never had one

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