Blogger recounts how his pointing out of hypocrisy of the Polygon reviewer who faulted Dragon's Crown for its objectification of women got him banned from Polygon, blocked on twitter and had posts removed from various spots on the internet
"Modern feminism isn’t about equality: just making men play by women’s rules & be what women want them to be." ~ @HelixSundown (via twitter) Yeah, pretty much.
The sad thing is that there is a lot of sexism left in this world, but this misguided one sided focus on the issues of gender discrimination only serves to hinder the true movement. Simply put, for every ridiculous claim that clearly has nothing to do with sexism but simply someones poor reaction to sexualized material or images it lowers the impact of claims of true sexism and objectification. Basically a case of crying wolf when there is nothing there. Because of this it has become hard to take a lot of claims of sexism and objectification seriously and that creates a real problem. True feminism is not a bad thing at all. But this new twisted take of feminism serves to greatly hurt the cause.
You know, if you replace "feminism" with "racism", or any other "ism" for that matter, your argument still applies? THAT is sad.
That's very well said, sir, and indeed a sad truth.
A very well articulated analysis.
isn't the term "feminazi"?
lol this game is getting more attention by this crap than by the actual game... which I've heard is pretty good... I wonder if anyone is getting this game just for the big boobs...
It's sad. it's something I've been saying for years. Sexism is a two way road. Just because something is sexualized doesn't make it sexist. I really wish this whole "sexism in games" trope would go away. Sex exists in every form of media, and applies to both genders. Let's just move on and get to ENJOYING our games.
hear hear! There is this advert aired in my country about chocolate. Its starts off by two women sitting in a theatre ready to watch a performance. The women talk to each other in a sophisticated upper class English manner with (I cant remember the exact lines but it went something like this)-"ooh these are the best seats to see the performance inspired by the grand bulge etc". Then pan over to the stage and about 5 muscley toned men started to take their clothes off and dance accompanied by music. I thought 1. What the fuck has this got to do with chocolate? 2. had this been the other way round where the 5 men were replaced by 5 pretty woman taking their clothes off and dancing would that been allowed? Thank fuck women don't rule the world.
Let's be Frank/Francine about sexism and double standards. ^^Just avoided a shitstorm there.
Haha!! I see what you did there...
Stay classy Polygon........
Feminists and cowardly white knight media need to stop their war on voluptuous female characters. Frankly, it's sexist and I'm offended.
feminists are probably old women and real ugly and insecure about their self image. Feel bitter that they are no longer OR never wanted by the opposite sex for whatever reason. Because I cant imagine why a man would complain.
I've never seen a pretty feminist in my life. And for the life of me I've never had a decent conversation with one. They just seem to be a group of women full of insecurities and resentment.
Feminists only care about sexism when it benefits them..this is no surprise, it's always been like that. They only fight for benefits and never for more responsibilities. Have you ever heard a feminist say that women should get paid the same (without actually looking into if the same job is actually being done/same tenure/same experience...etc) and at the same time say that women should be buying gifts and dinner for men and spend the same amount on wedding rings and take their men on vacations? When feminists fight saying that women should be allowed to fight in combat on the front lines, have you heard a single feminist say that this means that women should also have to register for the draft? When feminists say that the world objectifies women (then they immediately turn around and objectify men) do they get mad at the women that purposely USE this to get what they want, and do they get mad when every single commercial/show/movie has no problem making dads/men look like stupid morons that can't do anything right while the mother/woman can do no wrong? If the tables were turned on this last one there would be hell to pay...imagine if every commercial you watched was kinda like "(husband to wife) Honey you're so stupid, you bought the wrong insurance, we can't trust you to do anything right". That's how all these groups are, it's not about equality at all, it's about being the squeaky wheel and just annoying everyone until you get what you want.
Ur on the right track. Father Tom Leykis would be proud. I honestly believe that underneath it all women or quote unquote feminists really only care about obtaining unfair advantages over men and do not believe in the word "equality" as it is formally defined. Women do not want equality, they want special treatment. Just because u were born with a vagina, doesnt mean u cant learn to move heavy furniture around or fix ur own car. ...UH OH! I guess I'm now considered a Sexist by saying that.
ever hear a feminist say they are willing to put the toilet seat up when they are done?
"Feminists only care about sexism when it benefits them..this is no surprise, it's always been like that." I care most about sexism when it infringes on my rights, yes. If sexism is infringing on your rights, perhaps you should try complaining? I simply don't have the time or energy to directly fight your battles as well as mine. If they come up in concert, I'll fight them though. Sometimes they overlap. I hate that women have to look at all men as rapists, but society requires us to, by doing this stupid narrative that men can't avoid raping a woman who's drunk. I mean, what kind of man thinks it's okay to say that men have the self-control of a duck? I'll fight that. You know what else I hate? That women are the sole caretakers of children and wholly responsible for them, and that men are hardly ever given custody of their kids because of it. That's crap on both sides. And just so you can stop complaining about this: if women are allowed to fight in the front lines, then yes, they should have to sign up for the draft too. I would prefer by far that neither sex be drafted, so if the draft were implemented, I'd fight against that instead. I choose my battles, as should you, but don't take that to mean that I don't care about the ones I don't choose to fight.
Thanks for the post Wynams.
man can't we just play the damn game w/o all this drama lets just go past that! The graphic are amazing and gameplay look amazing too. The character look doesnt bother me at all. The sorc has big boobs but look at the fighter, big buff upper body but skinny legs lmao.
Agree completely. If someone has a problem with how sexist they feel a game is they should just not buy the game. It's called voting with your wallet. If you have to have some sort of internet crusade over it than your opinion is probably not how the average gamer feels. If the game sells a lot of copies, clearly the people purchasing the game felt there was no problem with it. But it's OK to have games with dudes like Conan or Marcus. You never once hear someone complain that their male superhero just has too many muscles. Certainly don't hear these supposed offended by sexism claiming it.
Oddly enough, controversy tends to help sell games. Grand Theft Auto(earlier ones) and Mortal Kombat are prime examples. I doubt very much the publisher is sitting there going, "ohhh...we have to nip this in the bud". It's free advertising, and lets face it, sex sells. Anyhow, in relation to Dragon's Crown, all this controversy is being mislabeled as sexism, or worse, misogynistic. At most it's objectification. However, the more likely is probably true, it's just the art style that the art designer likes.
I get completely desensitized about big muscles and big boobs as video games media and other medias throw that in my face constantly. As for reviewing a game, it boils down to the gameplay and while the aesthetics can also be a factor, I don't get bogged down by over-sexualized males and females, it's nice to look at but eventually you move on and have fun it it's a solid game. I am currently playing Odin's sphere (not as in your face, if you wanna call it that) and all I care about is advancing in the story and all the rpg elements, not how my boobs or ass fare.
Man I don't understand what is wrong with the people complaining about the art of the game...is it to garner attention? If nude paintings isn't criticized why is it that game art is always criticized for overly developed breast? I mean they are both ART my goodness this is my opinion but really I'm SMH with this stupid arguments its a total waste of time just play the game if you want it and don't if you don't want to.
It's because they have these little side agendas they want to push instead of it simply being about the game and it sucks and it shouldn't be that way.
Because it gives them hits for their website. While the original author may have had the best intentions(debatable), his analysis and understanding of the issue he was tackling was cursory at best, and completely wrong in reality. There is no grand agenda here, it's nothing more than a troll on the community to make some money for a website. Way too many people are giving them way too much attention, which is why this whole sexism in gaming is becoming way overblown, and why every single website seems to have to chime in on the topic to get their own hits, using the same cursory and wrong arguments as the last, or even more cursory and wrong counter-arguments. I believe sexism within the development community, or industry as a whole is worthy of discussion when done properly, but not when it comes to the actual games since from my experience on forums, only 1% seem to actually understand what sexism is.
Lets try this 1(Sold for 148 million) https://encrypted-tbn3.gsta... Art or Sexism? 2(Sold for 106 million) http://twistedsifter.files.... Just a couple of examples, people can't cry that games are art and then cry when creators use their ability to create.
Okay, but Dragon's Crown has much more to do with sleaze comics than classical arts. Dragon's Crown takes inspiration from Heavy Metal, Smut, French Kiss and every other comics in that vein. While it IS art, it is also plain erotic titillation material, and should be regarded as so. As for me, I'm a collector of such material, from 70s sexploitation movies to comics, pin up posters and such (Even got Tom of Finland tattoos). I believe it is important to recognize sleaze as what it is.
I get you, I was just trying to convey that some of the most erotic classical art could be construed as 'sexism' to some people with an agenda. I thought it would help to show the monetary value on such art as well.
That's one way to put it, I like to see Dragon's Crown has been inspired by lots of things. http://art-eater.com/2013/0... Really don't understand why the art is in question, when realistically it's just a summary of things man has done in the past 2000 years.
Sleaze or not, the sexism that some people imply just isn't there. Edit: Bubbles to you, plmkoh. EXCELLENT link.
Do you have a problem with any of the male characters in the game or is just female characters that offend you?
reply #2. Aaaaaaah indeed, on this you are absolutely right. It does seem unfair that eroticism is widely accepted in many other art forms, yet still really taboo in video games. I mean, some of the most important movies of all time are pure exploitative trash (Salo comes to mind, Story of O, and many more), yet still regarded as the purest form of their art because, surprise, they shock. Same for paintings. Many classical pieces were, at their time, produced as pornographic material for nobles. (Cameras didn't exist in that time, they had to produce it with painting, remember), and are still exposed in the higher class of arts museums. That brings me to something though: Dragon's Crown shocks, that is obvious. If it can be remembered as a turning point in the discussion of sexuality in the video game market, I'll be more than happy.
@plmkoh Oh of course, I've read that article multiple times and it is superbly constructed. What I meant to say is that the end result was reminiscent of cult comics like Heavy Metal and co. Also many, if not most, of the stories featured in such comic books were inspired by classical arts. There's a whole lot of stories that took inspiration from norse mythology, ancient greece and such, with the added sex as a recurring theme. How can I put it... It has classical inspiration, topped with a sleazy production. Something like that. :) @Hicken: Well there is some sexism actually, but not in the character's depiction. From my personal point of view, the game lacks in sexual depictions of the male body. It has some, with Roland, the Orc monster and the Dwarf, but the overall game is slightly bent towards pleasing heterosexual men, leaving us homosexuals with only bits to chew on. I hesitate to say they left girls alone too, because I have a feeling that such imagery is kind of a macho thing. Which is fine. Not every game can target every single type of player. (Also, with the huge amount of jrpgs that feature the bishounen type of male lead, one would have to be blind to believe that no game ever aimed at pleasing girls. As far as I know, not many men have a fondness of effeminate features on men. Also, with the number of woman penned Yaoi doujins featuring Sephiroth and Co. it is pretty clear that those characters were always designed with female players in mind, the artist knows what crowd enjoys his/her work. )
The more copies we buy of this game the more we piss off Anita Sarkeesian.
The real problem is the perceived need for equality in today's world when nobody can accept that all life, species, ect, are not equal and can never be.
The problem with feminism in modern media, especially online, is that the shady, obnoxious, and/or ignorant crackpots take the spotlight and make respectable supporters of the cause look bad. Think PETA but for women's rights.
Sexist this and racist that , my god these days people are as sensitive as a freakin car alarm set on high lol You people needs to chill
People are free of everything, they need something to bitch over. Which is sad really
This is my thoughts on the subject, WHO CARES. "Journalist" should stop making stories about NON SUBJECTS and perhaps focus on these things called THE GAMES. Enough with this crap already. This is why I can't stand websites like Polygon they need to make news ABOUT THEMSELVES. Get over it already. The first lesson in journalism, YOU ARE NOT THE STORY.
you be frank. i want to be sally!
plmkoh, big thanks for that link showing the art references in Dragon's Crown; simply amazing.
Forgot which comedian termed that men think about sex - was it every 10 to 15 seconds?.. And we have to " do " it because it's simply in our genes. Men are just more upfront I think, but it's actually the women who controls.
Why always when females is presented in games the are half naked and have HUGE boobs?,gamers buy a game for the GAMEplay part of it,did you see the new metal gear solid trailer,as a man I tend to look but these days softporn and games is one genre,I dont wanna feel awkward when my someone walks in while im playing a game like dragons crown,fallout new vegas offered good female companions like Cassy,and she wasnt half naked with big boobs,she was actually a good female compion.
Then just don't buy it? When you enter a movie store, are you forced to buy porn?
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