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Submitted by Abriael 700d ago | news

John Carmack: Kinect is “Fundamentally a Poor Interaction”; PS Move has “Fundamental Advantages”

Legendary Developer and id Software Technical Director John Carmack had a lot of good things to say about both next generation consoles during his keynote at Quakecom 2013, but he had a lot less love to share about Microsoft’s Kinect, criticizing his latency, framerate and mode of interaction with the user. On the other hand he thinks PS Move has a fundamental advantage due to its buttons. (John Carmack, Kinect, Playstation Move, PS3, PS4, Xbox 360, Xbox One)

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iamnsuperman  +   700d ago
It is really the button thing. The move is a really accurate piece of kit but the buttons is what makes it. Without the buttons it would be awful. There is no need to learn unusual/unnatural gestures to get things done (UI interface here. Moving your hands in front of you but you have to look at the screen to see what you are doing). Microsoft has addressed this with voice commands but like a lot of people I rarely use voice commands. We have voice stuff in our phones and other things for sometime now and the only reason I would use it (in a phone) is if I was driving (i.e doing something else that requires attention). I actually find it easier to search for things than thinking about what I need to say to get a function done (might have something to do with my dyslexia)

Buttons (in some shape or form) are quite useful. It is why things like Siri and other voice stuff has taken a back seat when people come to buying electrical goods.
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RememberThe357  +   700d ago
I only use the "voice commands" in my phone when I don't know how to spell something. Thats it.

I'm not going to tell my console to turn on, I have button on my controller for that. Plus, I don't want my system listening to my every word waiting for me to say "Xbox on." I mean, WTF is that? The XBone would be better than fine and 100 dollars cheaper without that stupid camera.

I've had fun with Move though (bocce ball gets hyper competitive), and with true 1:1 movement it really will change how useful it can be. But even thought I like Move I don't really see me using it outside game like bocce ball.

Who knows, maybe MS and Sony with prove me wrong, but for the most part motion gaming has been horrible.
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edonus   700d ago | Spam
HammadTheBeast  +   700d ago | Well said
That's funny edonus, just yesterday you and every other Xbox "supporter" (don't want to risk another bubble) were quoting Carmack saying that the hardware was similar, now his opinion doesn't mean anything?
pixelsword  +   700d ago
The good and bad thing about motion controls is that you have to think in terms of what the controls do; if you don't, it shows in the games.

The fact that there are hardly any, if any, new genres of games that take advantage of either motion control scheme in a AAA game is a testament to the fact that both control schemes have a long way to go in terms of developer interest.

Using m-controls along with games are a good idea, but only if it is harder to do on a controller; just replacing things that can be done with a button press can be annoying.
RememberThe357  +   700d ago
edonus, I gotta say I respect your opinion. Even though I rarely ever agree with what you say, I respect the way you explain yourself thoughtfully with minimal trolling.

But this article is about his opinion, the event (the talk itself not Quakecon) was about his opinion. If you don't care about it don't click on it and leave us to our "circle jerk."

Motion gaming may have a future but jumping around and waving my arms, outside of a football game, is not for me, and I doubt will be it for most people. As a control medium it's clunky and it gets in the way more than it helps. If I'm using my Xbone for solely Netflix or something then I can see how voice commends and motion sensing with make losing the remote a non-issue. But aside from that I just haven't had the experiences you've had that would make me buy into this "your the controller" stuff.

@pixelsword: Thanks for saying what I've been trying to say better than I would have said it.
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grimmweisse  +   700d ago
Yet most devs made either made rubbish or mediocre kinect games at best. So Camack's interpretation is correct, it's fundementally flawed. You can't just say " make it so it doesn't suck", if the hardware limits you and is flawed then devs can only work within those limitations. Might as well try getting blood out of a stone!
thehitman  +   700d ago
Lol @ edonus you dont give a fuck about their interpretation? You do know that everything they create is their interpretation of something. For the most part they don't care what they can do for you they care about expressing THEMSELVES that ultimately ends up in our entertainment. If they feel something does not creatively move them they wont create so you can get off your high horse of entitlement. I dont want tacked on and forced anything that ruins the experience. Now do I think all motion controls are bad not really I have a psyeye and the move controller, but to come off saying you dont care what they think is being very arrogant.
Kryptix  +   700d ago
The Kinect hasn't proven to be beneficial to real gaming in the last couple of years. I expected something like being able to use the controller while also pointing at certain areas on the screen to make your squad go there or attack in that direction at least. But you weren't able to use the controller as you use these motion controls, giving hand gestures or something. The voice commands can be done using your headset. SOCOM on the PS2 was able to do voice commands, where you command your squad to fire at will, hold position, follow, etc. Honestly, the Kinect didn't do anything fresh for gaming. The reason why it became popular is because gamers were brought into the hype or parents wanted their kids to be busy while they did their thing. This Kinect 2.0 is really going to be the same thing with extra features. Wonder how many games in the future will be ruined because of motion controls where the developer patch in a regular controller layout for you to use or make it optional. Which backs up what gamers have been saying, why even make the Kinect mandatory for the Xbox One? The regular controller can do it better. It's the best way to play games on a console, that's why we been using it for over 20 years.
n4rc  +   700d ago
My phone waits for me to say Google.. I don't see the issue.. I'm all for useful privacy.. But cmon.. And I'm 99.9% sure you can turn off the active listening.

Look at it realistically.. What useful data could they possibly obtain? Once it hits shelves, its going to be dissected by the public.. There will be nothing shady

Having said that.. I did much prefer the move to kinect.. Hoping the increased power makes it more viable now..
nukeitall  +   699d ago
Carmack is talking about the first and original Kinect.

There is very little perceptive latency in the new Kinect One. In fact, it can to some degree detect fingers already.

For decades, the controller pad was no good for FPS, but it evolved and now the pad is preferred by many. During those heydays, people said a controller could never replace the mouse.

Fast forward, and guess what, there are far more people playing FPS on console than PC. Nobody ever thought that back then!

The fact, is Kinect is rapidly becoming so darn good that even competitors like Sony considered making their camera standard on the PS4!!!

Also, your devices already know too much about you. Speech recognition of your voicemail, software scouring your storage space in the cloud, and software peeking through you phone content including email, text messages, any voice communication going on, images, calendar, notes and so on.

Yet, you are concerned about what you say in front of Kinect?

Your priority seems completely off.
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JokesOnYou  +   699d ago
Agreed nukeitall there was a time when consoles supposedly were not suited for fps because the mouse was THOUGHT of as the ONLY way to play them, NOW no one can make such claims. The original kinect did indeed have some latency issues, space was a issue, along with lighting, it had many limitations that kinect 2 does not and many devs didn't even bother to use its strengths like voice because of course it wasn't standard so all these things kinect2 has fixed. I respect Carmacks opinion and its obvious he has a bad taste in his mouth from the original kinect but things change and I'm glad to see microsoft did NOT give up because they didn't reach their goals with the original kinect. I think one day we'll look back and tell our kids about there was a time when consoles only came with a controller and of course back then gamers ONLY interacted with a controller by pressing buttons.

I think one thing is for sure there are some games like Dance Central that are BEST suited for kinect vs a controller, but I believe the vast majority are BETTER suited for hybrid controls and there are tons of ideas yet to be explored with kinect v2. As a gamer I'm exicited about new ways to interact beyond the status quo.
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4Sh0w  +   699d ago
Carmack is obviously very smart when it comes to hardware but he doesn't like change, he only wants to keep making traditional fps because that's his forte.
Blackdeath_663  +   699d ago
voice command on phones require a constant internet connection without that voice commands are extremely inaccurate
Godmars290  +   699d ago
@edonus:
Pretty sure he's saying that he will either do nothing, or at the very least he'll put in the least amount of effort or creativity needed to pass whatever requirements MS puts on a title that needs to be on the X1.
pixelsword  +   699d ago
@ remember:

No problem. :) I think that motion controls of just about all types have a future, but the games will define it, not just adding them on to games already there like they've been doing for the most part.
tokugawa  +   699d ago
hammad, it goes both ways. yesterday all the sony supporters were calling Carmack out.

fanboys on both sides flip flop daily. nothing new there
N8  +   699d ago
Some of the reasons xb1 doesn't appeal to me right now. I have no problem pressing buttons to switch inputs and turning on and off consoles. The features it presents are worthless to me I don't need them
XmarksDaSPOT_   699d ago | Spam
guitarded77  +   699d ago
I disagree with edonus now, and most of the time, but damn... give the guy a break. I think he's aware that most of us disagree. It's not gonna change his opinion, so let it be.

Personally, I own both. I use the Move on occasion because it's fun with the right software. I don't use Kinect very often, because There rally isn't any fun software. The Haunt was kinda fun, but also frustrating at times because the motion controls didn't read well sometimes.
fr0sty  +   699d ago
Carmack is a FPS developer, of course he'll have those types of comments to make when referring to Kinect. Even the new Kinect is not going to be as good as a Move for a FPS game, because of the fact that Move emulates a gun with it's shape and it's trigger. It is just better built for that genre. It doesn't mean there aren't any cool games that can be done with Kinect. It just means that a FPS developer is not that interested in the tech because there are better options out there for him.

Likewise, you aren't going to see someone who specializes in say, a fitness or dance game, to say they would prefer the Move as their motion control device of choice. The enhanced capability of being able to track every limb in full 3D gives Kinect an advantage there that Move just can't touch. So, that developer would favor Kinect.

John shouldn't be bashed for sharing his opinion, because to do so is simply taking his opinion out of the context of coming from a person who makes first person shooters for a living.
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The_Con-Sept  +   699d ago
I hate kinect now and I will hate it later. Until it gets fine pin point accuracy with much better response time with its calculations and collision detection... Then I might be interested in it. But I don't see the kinect being any better than what we already have available today. Buttons perform the simplest task much faster than a camera trying to read our input.

My experience with kinect was 3 gaming sessions a my friends house. It is only fun when you play party games. I don't see this being implemented in anything other than carnival games.

So casual gamers.... Buy the XBONE please. Stay off PS4.
mp1289  +   699d ago
"I used to give Apple a lot of grief about the one-button mouse when anybody working with the mouse really wanted more buttons. Kinect is sort of like a zero-button mouse with a lot of latency on it."

...Ouch!
abzdine  +   699d ago
kinect is only better with dancing games, Move is better in everything else. it can be used for hardcore games thanks to its high precision, sports games are much better with move than kinect, just look at sports champions it blows kinect sports on every aspect due to the true 1:1 tracking
MASTER_RAIDEN  +   699d ago
the first sentence of your comment....its like you read my mind.
Sara55   700d ago | Spam
Hellsvacancy  +   700d ago
Sorry for sounding stupid, but could you not use a controller and Kinect at the same time? surely somebody could implement that into a game
SoundGamer  +   699d ago
Yeah, that's essentially how most devs use it, if they use it at all. Controller + voice commands. It has become an expensive and over-glorified microphone.
nirwanda  +   699d ago
You can but if your hands are on the controller they can't separate to get the benefits from using kinect.
PSN_ZeroOnyx  +   699d ago
Not on 360. It used DVD storage and Kinect requires too much programming for controls so you might get controller plus voice. But you couldn't have full Kinect controls and controller mapping. X1 being BD could change this though.
Bigpappy  +   700d ago
Good write up. M$ is approaching core games differently with Kinect 2 (So are most developers I have seen use it so far). Instead of trying to use Kinect as a loan input, as Carmack seems to have been attempting, they are using it with the controller. So you can sit there and play the game with the controller and ignore Kinect, or you could learn what added inputs you can perform with light gestures .

Despite Carmack's comments, It all comes down to how the games for it appeals to the masses. Casual gamers will still choose it over the Move, because there is nothing to hold, and the gestures are more their thing, especially for Kids (throw the ball; Shoot the ball; kick the ball; touch the red button...)

The fact that developers can use it with the controller while sitting is going to give it a whole new sense of importance and application that needs to be examined.

The Kinect only games will be games that are suited for that device. Games you would not expect from people like Carmack. I kind of wished he was impressed by the tech, but this does not sway me away from Kinect. I still have interest in seeing what they do with it and can see cool uses already.
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nukeitall  +   699d ago
I agree, and great examples of games designed for Kinect are Kinect Sports and Dance Central.

No other game in the same genre gets as close to those using Kinect is as good. Simply put, they are superior to what is out there.

Some games are just inherently better on Kinect and we just haven't explored that domain enough yet. With Xbox One and Kinect One inclusion in every box, I hope it will be explored a lot more.

Amazing technology just waiting to be applied!
scott182  +   699d ago
I have never played the Kinect, I imagine it is great too. But I do have the Move and I have always been impressed by how fun the games are for it, and how accurate and easy to use the move controller is. I hope they keep it rolling on the PS4!
GrownUpGamer  +   699d ago
Oculus Rift + Move + Kinect = EPIC x 100
blennerville  +   699d ago
The MOVE2.0 should be like the Razer Hydra motion controllers.
Jazz4108  +   699d ago
He is talking about the first Kinect as when this article was taken from kinect two was still under wraps. This is just another blantant attempt to streatch the truth. Fanboys suck and dualshockera is known for this lossey goosey spreading of the truth.
TamiWAgee   699d ago | Spam
TamiWAgee   699d ago | Spam
showtimefolks  +   699d ago
most core gamers see both as useless and niche

kinect is the reason many core gamers decided in last 3 years to switch back to PS brand and now that MS is trying to Push kinect 2 even harder now that's a true sign of what's to come down the road

if you want to play a game the best way to play is still a controller for consoles and keyboard for PC, motions controls no matter what any company will say are nothing more than Gimmick to trick casuals into buying another device they don't need
DiRtY  +   700d ago
Wait, they still sell the PS Move?
5eriously  +   700d ago
trolling lately?
HammadTheBeast  +   700d ago
Yes. Despite not having the 500 million advertising budget, it's sold about 7-8 million less than Kinect.
Bigpappy  +   700d ago
Some people bought 4 of those. So the user-base is not reflective of the number sold. Sony did not create enough new experiences specifically for Move. So most were not compelled to buy it. They have another chance at it here.
insomnium2  +   699d ago
@big

"Some people bought 4 of those. So the user-base is not reflective of the number sold"

So what?

Many bought a backup X360 in case of RROD and they still count right?

Up here in Finland the whole RROD warranty system takes 3-5 weeks until you get yourself a new X360. That's a looong wait for some people so that's why I know several people who bought a backup core-unit.

It's not all so fine and dandy as it is in USA with MS.
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soniqstylz  +   699d ago
"..Some people bought 4 of those. So the user-base is not reflective of the number sold...."

Same with Kinect, except that people bought ones and never hooked it to an Xbox, but hacked to their PC or Mac and created stuff from it. It's good hardware, it just sucks for gaming.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...
BitbyDeath  +   699d ago
@Bigpappy,

Kinects are bundled with consoles so the number sold are even less reflective of the number wanted.
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Eyeco  +   700d ago
Couldn't care less about the motion control nonsense or any other controller gimmick, just give me a standard controller or mouse and keyboard and leave it at that.
Veni Vidi Vici  +   699d ago
It's attitudes like that that would prevent us from getting something like the Oculus Rift or something even better in the future.

Progress is going to have many bumps in the road. They are required bumps. Every bump teaches us something new. Only once we've accumulated enough information and learned how to use that information will true progress be made. This can be applied to MANY fields and MANY items that we use every day.
devwan  +   699d ago
Were you around in the early 90s when VR was supposed to be the next big thing? 20 years later it's almost there and potentially living up to the old promise.

Maybe in another 10 or 15 years people will come up with a worthwhile implementation of motion controlled gaming, but for now, not for me.
T2  +   699d ago
Dude hes right ms/kb and gaming controllers, are simply convenient and minimal in effort , lag , and error....
Waving your hands and arms in front of the tv will always be a fad cuz when u get tired of it ur always going back to controllers
nick309  +   700d ago
I own both kinect & ps move and i gotta say.. Cant get into any of them.
Abriael  +   700d ago
Same. Carmack says he's not sold on kinect, but I'm not sold on move either. At least Sony doesn't force it down my throat lol.
Gamer1982  +   700d ago
Thats the killer though ain't it? You get the choice with Sony. Its holding the tech back for them but its a selling point for most. The buttons on MOVE though makes it the killer tech over Kinect. Forget the lag you get with Kinect and the small rooms as they say its fixed with 2.0 (not confirmed) that wasn't the major issue. The major issue was it was useless outside your dancing/fitness games because your interaction was limited to on rails. Voice interaction is all well and great but its not a game changer and your not really gonna buy one version over the other for voice interaction.
Bob Dole  +   700d ago
lel he called it a "zero button mouse"
insomnium2  +   699d ago
Try Okami with Move. You'll love it.
Eyeco  +   700d ago
What I learned with the Wii and Move is that they actually added nothing to gaming, did anyone ever play a Wii game when the controls were like "OMG AMAZING REVOLUTIONARY OUT OF THIS WORLD" like it was hyped up to be ? well I didn't at best motion control was responsive, at best it just worked, other than that it was a completely useless gimmick and at it's worse it rendered games totally unplayable.

The best game on the Wii is arguably Super Mario Galaxy, would that game be any worse if it was configured to a standard controller ? I really don't think so, 10 years from now we're gonna look back at this stupid fad and laugh at how useless and silly it made us look playing games, especially at Kinect, jumping around like a meth addict, good riddance to motion control.
garos82  +   700d ago
Try tumble.one of the best examples of a great motion control game, there are plenty more but that one will do
Knushwood Butt  +   700d ago
+1 for Tumble.

And Killzone 3 with the Move is awesome.
n4rc  +   700d ago
Omg.. A huge noooo Lol

I saw those Kevin Butler ads for kz3 and the sharpshooter and said "oh hell yes!"

Boy did that suck.. Lol.. Didn't realize how awkward it would be to move and turn.. Used it maybe 3 times and havent touched it since.. Lol
insomnium2  +   699d ago
Okami HD with Move is faneffingtastic!
SoundGamer  +   699d ago
@n4rc

I absolutely love how Guerrilla Games implemented the Move with Killzone 3. I didn't use the sharpshooter, but I sat down with the Move and navigation controller. It worked wonders for me. I was almost always at the top of the board every time I played. I couldn't play multiplayer without the Move after I started. I even platinumed the game with the Move.
kneon  +   699d ago
@n4rc

I completeled KZ3 on elite using the sharpshooter and the only complaint I have was that it made it too easy. It's too accurate and responsive.
RIP_Cell  +   699d ago
of course people love using Move on KZ3, you get crazy aim assist, aim at an enemy and the recticle would follow him even behind walls
Knushwood Butt  +   699d ago
Never used the sharpshooter, but Move along with the nav controller.

Was good with SOCOM 4 too, but not as good as the Killzone 3 implementation.

Really shameful how third parties haven't added Move implementation to their multiplats.
T2  +   699d ago
Ya,in fact once the novelty wore off , some most annoying wii games were ones where a vital move was mapped to a motion control ... It actually hindered the game and that was just a simple flick of the wrist... Imagine anything requiring more movement and how annoying that would be
Tyre  +   700d ago
Kinect leads us into a world of bad interfaces & poor interaction, yeah thanks Microsoft! I've always said these motion control hype is just a superficial innovation. Thx Carmack for stating the truth.
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pyramidshead  +   700d ago
Get ready for a lot of angry replies lol
hennessey86  +   700d ago
Is he talking
About kinect 1 or 2, because I thought 2 was much better than 1. I was a day one purchaser of kinect and I didn't experience any game destroying lag in the games I played.
green  +   700d ago
Kinect 1

@_FantasmA_ : You are right. Kinect for games was a massive letdown. I tried the Steel Batallion demo but could not finish it because it's motion tracking was so inaccurate.
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_FantasmA_  +   700d ago
I only tried the Kinect once. It was some Sega horror game called Rise of Nightmares? I'm not sure about the name but the Kinect was terrible. The game was unplayable. Not sure if it was the game or Kinect, but Kinect seems gimicky anyway. I'll take the Move gun over some spy camera any day. Maybe we can get a Duckhunt type of game on the PS3. That would be sweet.
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EasilyTheBest  +   700d ago
Funny how u thought Sega's Rise of Nightmares was unplayable.
I completed the game and so did my sister, its a really long game too.
Gamer1982  +   700d ago
Kinect 2 may fix the lag but it doesn't fix the fundamental flaws that games will still be on rails thanks to no controls other than your body.
CBaoth  +   700d ago
Yep I think the fundamental flaw in Kinect is they haven't figured out 3D movement in space. Kinect needs a Nunchuk/Navigator peripheral for core games. Dance, fitness, and children's entertainment IPs are fine as is, but a horror survival game like Amnesia could be awesome with it.

Kinect controls camera sway via head tracking (thus no need of a second stick) & interactions with objects like turning a doorknob in virtual space. A quick depress of a button on the Nunchuk instantly switches from object interaction to a gun. Point at an on-screen enemy and push L1 to fire. Best part, you don't have to move off the couch and flail your arms around after a long day's work.
_FantasmA_  +   700d ago
I wanted to buy the Move rifle for all the shooting games but I need all the money I can get for my PS4. I'm actually surprised that most shooters are supported by the Move and I hope even more are supported on the PS4 because I will actually buy one. I am tempted to buy the Move gear for PS3 used just to play Killzone 3, BioShock Infinte and those 2 Resident Evil rail games. I used to love playing Area 51, Time Crisis, and House of the Dead back in the day and Sony keeps tempting me to revisit the past.
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shivvy24  +   700d ago
Trust me , its really awesome but not worth it in my opinion
garos82  +   700d ago
Killzone 2 is better than 3 but u can't go back to 2 because there is no move support.

I played resistance 3 mag and killzone 3 with move all were infinitely better with it
PeEsFour  +   700d ago
The thing is: No one really wants Kinect & Move, but Microsoft focuses the whole system on that while Sony lets you decide if you want to use it or not.

I will never use any voice commands to talk with my console, i will never stand in front of my console and do weird movements. I will never clap my hands to switch the game or something like that.
I will sit on my couch/bed and play games with my controller.

Ps Eye exists since Ps2 and barely some developers make use of it. The same with kinect. Only kinect titles use it, and i wont buy kinect just to shout out my FusroDah in Skyrim.

Kinect/Move are NOT the future. Stuff like Ocolus Rift and Virtuix Omni are.
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jeffgoldwin  +   700d ago
Agreed no motion or touchpad anything for me. Oculus Rift has some real potiental.
NeoTribe  +   699d ago
Totally agree. After watching a demo of the rift I see that tech is far from being relevant. Nobody has the space to use rift.... how can you walk around a room with that massive device on your head without bumping into stuff. Rift is the very begining of virtual reality, unfortunately it looks painfully boring, awkward, and unplayable.
DoubleM70  +   699d ago
Speak for yourself.
oscarcat59  +   699d ago
I am looking forward to Kinect 2 myself. I like when someone speaks for me (no one really wants) lol. It is something new and if it works a advertised I will be very satisfied. If not I have a choice not to use it. Besides if I cant afford a 500 dollar console I know I would not spend 400.
pyramidshead  +   700d ago
Wonder how dedicated X1ers are going damage control and take this seeing as they took his views on the power difference between the consoles as gospel. :x
DigitalRaptor  +   700d ago
Was about to say the same damn thing.

The best part of this, is that it is simply logical and not based on any kind of allegiance or preference. The Carmack statement about the consoles being "close" in power, still doesn't do anything to debunk the PS4's clear technical advantage.

Not saying the new Kinect won't have some impressive tech and cool implementations, but what Carmack said holds true. People are meant to buy into the whole Kinect 2.0 as being a fundamental part of the console and games, and yet they've shown nothing significant, as though they're expecting people to fall for unfounded hype again. Are they even ready to release this thing?
jeffgoldwin  +   700d ago
People should make their own opinions and not be such followers. But with that said, it is influencial to hear someone important like that in the gaming industry state their opinion.
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Grown Folks Talk  +   700d ago
Wonder how many PS4ers who said Carmack isn't the be all, end all in the other article will now claim he's Jesus incarnate about this one.
Abriael  +   699d ago
Eh, every console fanboy will disregard what doesn't fit his agenda and push what does, even if things are said by the same person.

Fanboyism is platform agnostic.
RIP_Cell  +   699d ago
I thought Carmack is biased because he's a multi platform developer and has to stay neutral so can't be trusted when comparing consoles, from the comment section of the other article
TheGrimReaper0011  +   700d ago
I believe you can do interesting things with both
Unfortunately, nobody tries anything with them
An Killzone 3 doesnt count, it wasnt made with the move
The only game that sorta takes advantage of this was dance central
Sorcery was mjah, bit boring
Media Molecule did some interesting stuff with it in LBP2
Other than that, they need to convince developers to use these things or drop them completely
iamnsuperman  +   700d ago
Killzone (and in a way Socom 4) did show that the Move can be used for the FPS genre. The problem was no one else used it. When ever I pop in K3 or Socom 4 I still use the Move. Apart from that and Singstar dance (for drinking games at uni) that is all I used the move for. That is the big problem with the Move.

Side note a big problem with motion controls is when they are put into games where they do not belong. I just started up Need For Speed and that Move compatibility thing came up. Why? its a driving game.
#10.1 (Edited 700d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
5eriously  +   700d ago
Tell that to the guys killing (murdering) me using the move controls on KZ3. Rather talk of something you really know something about. (wink)
TheGrimReaper0011  +   699d ago
1. How would you know they use a move controller? It doesn't show that
2. I tried it and while it def works, it doesnt need the move. dont believe me? Killzone 4 wont support move, even the dev know it doesnt need the move
3. Have you considered that you maybe, I dont know ... suck at it?
5eriously  +   699d ago
At my age I AM BOUND TO SUCK AT IT BUT MY SON ARE VERY GOOD. I have spoken to a few that are good using move and there are prove on the internet. Google is your friend not run along baby boy. (wink)

From the forum

[Time and time again I've encountered these type of players running in a zigzaging position and firing their weapons accurately (I'm talking about 3-round burst kills while running) , and Japanese Move players have done this with ease... I suggest on the next KZ title that there should be rooms exclusively to Move users to level the competitive playing field.....]

It's not about need it's about an advantage vs disadvantage.
#10.2.2 (Edited 699d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report
Bathyj  +   700d ago
Dont care about motion controlls but at least Move can be used for real games. Killzone 3 is brilliant with the sharpshooter. Its an experience that handles unlike any other shooter.

Also hoping Media Molecule do something cool with their creation tools. Their tech demo showed great potential.
from the beach  +   700d ago
The new Kinect should be a big step up in terms of usability and the fact that it's part of every console this time marks a seismic difference.
gamer7804  +   700d ago
psmove was never really supported, I don't see sony doing much more with it for ps4. Despite Kinect 1.0 limitations it still was supported and sold much better.

Time will tell this generation, but I don't see it playing out much differently, whereas move has stayed the same while Kinect upgraded and included with the console.
shivvy24  +   700d ago
I reckon the only PSmove exclusive that was awesome is Sorcery
imt558  +   700d ago
Pew, pew, pew.... Good old Kevin.
slampunk  +   700d ago
Yet another flame bait article on N4G....This interview is old news and was linked yesterday....
christocolus  +   700d ago
I believe his cmments are based on his impressions of the current gen motion controls. The ps eye2 and the kinect 2 are both upgrades over the current ones. Hideo kojma, shinji mikami,suda 51 ,dice, ea,ubisoft etc are a few out of the many devs who are intrigued and impressed with the kinect 2.
Electric-flamingo  +   700d ago
Lol at Sony fanboys agreeing with carmack today. And coming from someone who leans more twords the Xbox side, i hunk kinect is a waste of money. The only thing my kinect has ever done is sit there while my kids run up to it and press on the lens because they think it's a button.

Hopefully they improve on the next one.
iamnsuperman  +   700d ago
"Lol at Sony fanboys agreeing with carmack today"

Ha I know right. It is crazy how they agree to one thing he says and disagree with another. Talk about doing the impossible. /s

Seriously think before you put stuff like that. It isn't so black and white with agreeing and disagreeing with people. You can agree with one part but disagree with another part.
#17.1 (Edited 700d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
Jaqen_Hghar  +   700d ago
lol at Xbots saying Carmack doesn't matter now despite saying that a vague statement yesterday proves that on paper specs don't matter.
pyramidshead  +   700d ago
lol this. ^
windblowsagain  +   700d ago
I don't think It's sony Fanboys agreeing with carmack.

It's common sence.

Move works better, because it's tracked properly and has buttons. Kinda like the bar on the new controller could be used for different things with the camera.

As for Carmack the other day stating he likes Intel and Nvidia.

Watch the video, and QUAKECON is sponsored by INTEL AND NVIDIA.

Truth of the matter is, I.d's engine has fallen behind.

Cryengine3, Nd's engine, Ubisoft's and DICE engines are the future.

I'm a big QUAKE3 lover and back in the day i played that game day in day out. Some awesome mods etc.

RAGE was poor.

Carmack has a chance to step it up for DOOM4 on PC,PS4/XBONE.
gazgriff2k12  +   700d ago
Im currently playing heavy rain its a amazing game and i couldn't imagine playing it without the move controller. Ive also played okami with the move. These type of games are greatly enhanced with the move controller, I cant think of any game enhanced by kinect and there are 0 kinect games that interest me that said i think its great for young kids and would be better off as a nintendo product
jcnba28  +   700d ago
Who cares Wii Motion Plus destroys both.
5eriously  +   699d ago
trolling much lately? nothing to do on your Wii-pee?
#20.1 (Edited 699d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
jcnba28  +   699d ago
How is my comment trolling? It's a fact. Name me one stellar game that uses PS Move or Kinect?
Hicken  +   699d ago
Your comment's trolling because the Wii isn't discussed.

And the Move has proven more precise, while the Kinect has greater potential... though not necessarily in games.
TheEvilGeneral  +   700d ago
There is a reason why MS hasnt shown any XONE games that are Kinect only- Kinect isnt a killer app for Games and their current stance supports it.

But it's a killer app for TV.

That's why its bundlled in with the system, cause the system is a media center too. And I think there wont be anything to match that experience from anyone else around. If you've tried a similar setup you know what I'm talking about. No need to find remotes, point at tv etc.- you just say what you want to see from somewhere in your living room and presto, you're watching it.

Kinect 1 was pushed for games, Kinect 2 is pushed for media consumption and shortcuts. And I cant wait for that.
FlunkinMonkey  +   699d ago
Which is why Ryse (meant to be their killer kinect app) has completely flopped with regards to its original planned use of kinect.. It's been downgraded to using just voice commands instead of a full blown kinect game.. Not very convincing.
PSN_ZeroOnyx  +   699d ago
No need for a remote? Everyone I know who is dumb enough to pay outrageous cable bills has a DVR, if you plan to record or playback recorded shows then you'll need your cable remote BC X1 can't do that for you.
pacostacos  +   700d ago
I like Carmack he speak the truth with no B.S. Like saying the ps4 and xbox are close in power (like a lot of devs have said) and now with the Kinect 1 criticism. I agree Kinect 1 along with its implementation in games was very poor. That being said i am intrigued by Kinect 2 and its uses in video games and its use in enhancing the xbox console. Kinect 2 from what we seen so far is a very impressive piece of tech and much more powerful than Kinect 1. The possibilities are endless. The biggest problem that kinect 1 and ps move experienced was that they weren't widely adopted so devs didnt really support them in games and when they did it was half a%#ed. But with kinect 2 it come in every console so devs from triple AAA games and indies can take advantage of it. I for one am looking forward to some kick a#% horror game (and other genres) where kinect reads your facial expression and heart rate and the room lighting and adapts the experience providing a even more immersive game world. But I think creative indie devs are the ones who are really gunna let Kinect 2 shine.
#22 (Edited 700d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
PSN_ZeroOnyx  +   699d ago
More games on rails, awesome!
SaveFerris  +   700d ago
Games with Kinect are not immersive because there is no force-feedback of any kind. MS even put rumble in the triggers for the new controller to heighten the experience. Until we get holodeck/lawnmower man technology then people will continue to use controllers.
christocolus  +   700d ago
@saveferris,I hope you know the new kinect2 recognises the new xbox one controllers?so you will have scenarios where both will be used in tandem to produce better immersion in certain games. i.e dead rising 3.
#24 (Edited 700d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Excalibur  +   700d ago
One of the arguments I hear in favor of Kinect is that Devs will use Kinect because Microsoft is putting on in every box.

Right there you have a Dev saying he is not sold on the tech and will still use their current coding methods, I'm quite he is not the only Dev that feels this way.

Once again Microsoft is shooting themselves in the foot, When they first launched the 360 they released a version with no hard drive, for many MANY years this held Devs back from what they could do with the system and they are doing the same thing now but this time they are holding back the consumer because of the mandatory Kinect.

The other thing Microsoft has to look at is the attach rate.
Sure Kinect sold 15-20 million units but it's attach rate was 1:1 meaning one Kinect sensor sold and one game sold.
Some of the most popular Kincet titles barley sold a million units.

My thing is, if the thing is so great then EVERYONE (Dev and consumer alike) would flock to it like free ice-cream on a hot summer day but bottom line, they're not.

I'm sure at some point they will wise up and release a Kinect free sku but how my times can you shoot yourself in the foot before you completely gimp the system with the Devs and the consumer?
#25 (Edited 699d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
VTKC  +   700d ago
both are trash. I am just grateful Sony doesn't try and shove it down consumers throats like certain other companies- by trying to implement it into the console and making it a compulsory purchase. No clues on who I am referring to.
#26 (Edited 700d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
PFFT  +   699d ago
They would rather shove down your throats a useless clickable touch pad. Ohh JOY! Now you can double click your mouse while playing Shadowfall.
The_Sneauxman  +   699d ago
Do you even... That's what you're defending with? Ouch! Maybe you should use the whole "Useless light on the controller" argument. From what I've seen it gets better results.

*EDIT* Clickable Pad is also used as a Touch Sensitive pad. Make sure you include that in your argument the next time you decide to fail again.
#26.1.1 (Edited 699d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report
T2  +   699d ago
Oh , brilliant comeback lol ... Ya a touchpad has no use just its on every phone , ipad, etc... Hell even my car stereo is touchsxreen now
PFFT  +   698d ago
Still useless on the PS4. Its not as if you are stupid enough that you wouldnt know how to navigate with you DS4.
#26.1.3 (Edited 698d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report
Foxgod  +   699d ago
Well, i agree with him on Kinect1.
And that is what he seems to be talking about.
kewlkat007  +   699d ago
Kinect 2 is Beast from what I have seen...expect more integration..

The developers don't need to hold back..everyone will have one.

Now I tried the Move at best buy but not something I would ever buy..if it was included then sure I try it more. Even
#28 (Edited 699d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(12) | Report | Reply
FrigidDARKNESS  +   699d ago
WeLl thats his opinion when other devs. Loves it and 2 of Japans most prominent game developers prefer Kinect Kojima and Shinji Megami.
#29 (Edited 699d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(6) | Report | Reply
Salooh  +   699d ago
We hear they compliment it but they don't use it so what's the use of that talk . And they didn't mention ps move..

Kinect is a great camera but it's not something serious gaming need to force it . Just like the ps move , PS move have buttons and it's faster to respond then kinect and serious games support it but we still don't brag about it because motion gaming isn't as advanced as the tech because the tech isn't useful enough for the games. I see future in both devices but right now both are worthless and forcing them won't get support from me..
#29.1 (Edited 699d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
AceBlazer13  +   699d ago
Yeah I'll stick with my controller.The two of them suck glad I at least have a choice with the ps4.Now if the devs happen to make something that is practical towards gaming then I'll certainly get one.
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