Microsoft executive Albert Penello explains how they were able to increase the clock speed of the Xbox One GPU.
Interesting, so pretty much they found out that they could use a little bit more power without having the box sounding like a vacuum(it didn't before), nice. They just saw the opportunity to boost the performance without any negatives.
and 4 months before lunch .. that's planning
Im pretty sure they had lunch today
Calm down Carmack knows more about system hardware specs than this whole site combined and he said the consoles were very close in performance even before this news. Folks are overreacting this is just a little bump in clock speed, thats all... so don't worry Cerny said your ps4 still has 'teh best launch lineup ever.
Carmack didn't say the two were neck and neck performance wise. He even acknowledged the performance differences in memory and the GPU. His comments were based on the fact that both systems essentially use the same CPU, and both are AMD based GPUs based on the same architecture. Then fanboys like you took that and ran with it, as if he had said the two were the same performance-wise. In fact, he even went on to admit he hadn't done any performance tests on either system. It's good that they were able to squeeze out that extra 6%, that will help them offset the 10% of the GPU that the OS reserves for itself, it'll only be taking 4% now from where it used to be.
Playing catch up
@JOY It's like you just took a bunch of 8th gen console war buzz words/names, threw them in a virtual blender, hit "pro-xbox puree" and posted the results.
Not to sound like I have my thing in.someone butt but I'd listen to mark before John
6 percent ! ohhh lets make it sound like it's a huge number !!!!! lol maximum of 2 more fps in games, EHHH
I hope they had lunch. Poor guys must be starving.
It won't squeeze a "couple" of FPS out of anything. It might give you that "one" frame - 6% @ 30fps is 1.8. So what was 28 occasionally might as well hit 30 now (aeh...Ryse...aeh). But that's about it.
JOY's joking on herself, as usual. =/
...or maybe the PLAN was to see how the chips were turning out closer to release date, and making adjustments to the clock speeds then.
MS is playing ketchup.. wait..
@blackOo, You sound pretty naive. Do you realize that the actual performance of prototype hardware (8 core Jaguar APUs aren't even on the market) varies drastically until AFTER launch? Case in point, Sony designed the PSP to run at 333 MHz... and underclocked it to 222 MHz for the first couple years of its existance, because the hardware wasn't reliable and power-conservative enough to run at 333. Another example, the Cell processor design actually has 8 SPUs, but there are only 7 "available" (actually 6, because the OS reserves one) on the PS3. This is because initial Cell CPU yields were SO BAD, that they had to allow chips with one broken SPU to qualify as fully-fledged PS3 CPUs. In short, hiking the clock of the GPU by 6%, 4 months before retail hardware hits the shelves... that's not surprising. It's a smart move my MS to not claim their console can run at some outrageous clock, and then either (a) downclock it and get bad PR, or (b) have to shell out 1 billion USD (see: XBox 360) to fix units that die within a short time. Before you criticize something, try to understand it. Frankly, I would not be surprised to see it get hiked again, if AMD can demonstrate that the hardware can handle it, or MS wants to update the design with some better cooling, etc. You may hate to hear this, but its entirely possible that the smaller, power-supply inclusive, bigger GPU PS4 may actually have some reliability problems that the XB1 may not have. It *is* packing a lot more heat in a smaller space, after all. Its not magic, its physics.. and smart design only goes so far.
why are you guys speculating too much or reading too much into this! the only reason they did it is because they can! simple as that.
@Ulf You said some very interesting things that is actually true regarding to Sony's platforms; but this is an entirely different story. The PSP give or take you are sort of right sort of wrong. The upclock was because they figured out how to utilize the hardware much better kind of similar to what MS did with the Xbone but there is a huge significant difference. The PS3 at first needed to deactivate the 8th SPU because of yield issues. If I am not mistaken Sony has figured out how to finally utilize all the SPUs but it was too late because the PS3 was all-ready in the pipeline. This is why so many people thought that the PS4 would include an enhanced cell chip, because Sony figured out how to master the chip. This up clock on the Xbone, will not have a significant difference, actually it won't have any significant difference that will matter in the long run. The percentage increase truly does nothing. Because of this reasoning it is truly a PR stunt. I think this increase would have faired better if it was done silently, and make a statement after the system released.
@UIf u made good point .. also it could be a desperd move just like Sony's (from 4 to 8) but Sony was still in development stages back then and they had to act after the feedback from the dev don't u thing ms may just got same feedback and had to do something to say in close with the ps4 ... but they can't just come out and say that ms invested more into the Camera and Sony ask where the dev want the money to go and dev said Gpu so ps4 ended up with a nice gpu "future proof accourding m.cerny"" bottom line ms has been rushed by Sony and they are playing catch up
Just watch though, we're going to see wack articles soon saying "Why this 6% GPU boost spells trouble for Ps4" lol.
Guarantee you we won't see a single one. Let's not lie here, this site has a MAJOR PS bias.
It's funny as not that long back this website was all doom and gloom articles about Sony and PS3. I don't think there is a bias, I just think the general community are pleased with Sonys offering specs wise and really really disappointed by microsofts. I know I feel let down by Microsoft, they seemed to have forgotten there roots a few years back and designed a new machine aimed at the casuals and have now done several 180's since announcement after realising there machine is not as saleable. You cannot blame people for sounding Sonys horn when it has been such a positive one. You knock it's launch line up as it does not have titanfall etc(it will have in twelve months) but Sony fans now they will have killer apps, look at the ps3 launch the games then were average and look at the masterpieces that have been created since.
but i thought it was all about the cloud? and they wasnt worried about the flops differance yet here they are taking a massive risk over clocking it more just before launch :/
Because they need some kind of positive news no matter how minimal they are to break the waves of bad negative news out there.
I don't understand all of the hate. They did something good. Regardless of how small it is I don't understand why everyone is so down on this news. Granted it doesn't make me want to run out and reserve an X1 it is still great news. The hero on performance will be the tools and driver optimization. New drivers can easily give a bigger boost to performance than a 53mhz clock increase.
Because it's artificial. Those 6% mean swat in terms of performance. You would never touch performance numbers so close to release for "just 6%". This is way too risky. And so what this really boils down is, that obviously this is more a marketing/strategic decision than anything what an engineer would want that late in the game. And re-drivers. That means they had a shitty driver to begin with. All it really shows how far away the box was when they revealed it. And MS yet again manages to sell a deficit as a win. Congratulations.
This is only possible via online patch right? Lucky for MS their XBone is a brick without an initial mandatory online patch so they can throw in a bone like this so people might forget about the whole thing. Clever really. The casual crowd won't know about these things anyway so they can say the reason for the whole patch is this upgrade. Win win for MS. No victims. Like punching someone in the dark LOL.
Bubble insomnium for the simpsons refrence
Why do they hate? Because they see any sort of progress or positive change to the xbox, as a direct threat or attack against PS4. They see what they want to see, which is usually not accurate to what's actually going on. It's like all the pro-gun nuts going on about how the liberals want to take away all their guns, when all that was actually being discussed was reform. The other reason is that these people are so biased and hateful towards MS, that any sort of good news from the "MS/xbox camp," actually causes them to feel discomfort and anger - like seeing a person you hate succeed in life and being bitter because of it...yeah, it really is that juvenile... Anyone arguing that the "hate" stems from the over-hype that is being placed on the significance of the GPU boost or the false claims about it's potential, why would this cause hate? It may cause skepticism, where you could then list your reasons why, but why would you be hateful or even angry at this? It just shows that you are concentrating more on the reaction to the news, rather than the news itself. Regardless of what potential this clock boost has, the main point is that MS was able to boost performance from their system - this is a good thing, or at least neutral. By showcasing you care more for the reaction, you show that you are more concerned about how they view MS or Sony. Either you're mad that it may cause people to favor MS/xbox more, or upset that people may show less interest in Sony/PS4. In either case, it exhibits a bias on your part.
Ummm... but they DO want to take away ALL your guns. They just know they can't do it.. yet. - http://www.youtube.com/watc...
Actually the liberals do want to take all the guns but that's a separate issue.
Well at least I know that the paranoid liberal hating gun owners are pro Xbox. That's why shooters sell so well on it. If we point out that MS has a camera, that's always on, is a concern after this whole Prism thing, were called paranoid. You guys hear about stricter gun laws and you start freaking out. I knew the arguments on hear sounded a lot like red vs. blue. Sorry for the run on sentences.
Didn't they say before they were unclocking it by quite a bit to prevent overheating and rrod2.0? So is this boost simply putting it back to what it was? Did they solve the overheating issue? I guess well see a couple weeks after its released.
Unlike sony dropping tons of stuff from ps3 like 7 usb ports 1080p 120fps, later alternate o/s etc, MS is already amping up xbox one even if its just small stuff.
Microsoft in the event of disclosure of their new console the PS fanboys were angry that Microsoft revealed a console without a lot of games in an event that was to unveil its new console. When Microsoft announced at E3 a lot of games for launch, and without the DRM policy clear the fans complained. So Microsoft decided to make a 180 turn in their DRM policy which is good news yet the PS fanboys complained. So Microsoft decided to increase the GPU clock by 6%, but for PS fanboys who do not care about Xbox One and do not plan to buy one anyway, for them the 6% increase in the GPU IS NOT THE BIG DEAL! LOL!!! NOT FnC<!NG SURPRISED!! AND THEY CALL THEMSELVES GAMERS !!! INSTEAD OF GETTING MAD GET EXCITED BECAUSE A COMPETITION BETWEEN THIS TWO CORPORATION IS GREAT NEWS FOR US CONSUMERS AND THE GAMING INDUSTRY.
and the question is how long should they test this bump to make sure it doesn't mess xboxone up. I don't like the changes there doing with the system like this , so close to launch , whats to say this makes the system freeze or even kill the dam thing .
A minuscule clock speed increase isn't going to cause any harm lol.
@Cooguy1212 sorry that is incorrect: Software can physically damage hardware, and you do happen to set the CPU's clock speed and voltage in software. Given a mild overclock, however, there will be no immediate physical damage to the processor - but it should be noted that high clock speeds, temperatures, and voltages are all known to accelerate transistor aging. This isn't something you can completely mitigate - even running the processor at the default clock speed and voltage will wear down the transistors over time. This is all on a timescale measured in years, and the effects can be mitigated by compensating the CPU's speed and voltage over time http://superuser.com/questi... example, like he stated i have seen many chips that are infact rated higher and go kaput over a very short time due over clock even a little. if you want a good resource Scott Mueller has created one of the best books on Hardware its over 20 years now since the first edition. http://www.amazon.com/dp/07... example: Again, check with the manufacturer's rated specifications. I've seen some GPUs that are rated up to 100C, while also encountering CPUs that can only withstand up to 68C. Indeed, the chip will work past it's rated temperature/voltage, but the lifespan will be severely impacted. In general, the cooler, the better.
The psp did the same thing a few years back and everything turned out fine. They boosted the processor's clock speed from 266MHz to 333MHz. Edit: This was due to the battery not a actual speed increase. It was more like a deduction before launch. Sorry. if i erase post the comment below makes no sense. lol What does suprise me is that this boost to the Xbox One wasn't saved for a rainy day. It could have been a nice little boost to the console a year down the line.
That was more based on battery limits unlike electronics design to run from the wall socket.
Thanks, didnt know that. Had to look it up.
@tubers exactly the Mips 4000 cpu and gpu's were both rated @ 333 but Sony pre set the mips lower clock @ 222 MHz to save on battery power
This is all PR talk to build hype. Changing a few clock speeds is not going to kill the dam thing, they know what there doing. Applying changes to the clock speeds here and there on a desktop GPU increases performance with a slight rise in temperature. You have to be careful tho as you don't want to push a card to hard. Essentially all they have done is a minor overclock which makes them sound cool.
but you have to be careful with voltages too when overclocking its not just extra temp.
Raising the voltages just gives the card more power which in turn also raises the temperature. Depending on what you are doing you will sometimes have to up the volts to accommodate for the higher clock speed. and visa versa.
Yes MS clearly knows what they are doing, its not like they have done a complete 180 of their ofiginal vision, i mean they sure do sound like a company with a concrete vision and planning...
I have disagrees for saying Microsoft know what they are doing. You are getting confused I am not bigging them up it's a simple process that a monkey could achieve.
I am sure Microsoft will have tested these changes and are fully aware of potential downsides to upping hardware clocks. As far as I am aware they have been in this business for sometime and have done fairly well so far..... ;)
@flunkers Ever heard of RROD. Might want to look it up before "As far as I am aware they have been in this business for sometime and have done fairly well so far." I think people have a good reason for being worried over this considering the RROD fiasco.
I'm sure they know what they're doing. They're not going to want to cause a RROD situation because it cost them a billion dollars. Then again, all the disagrees are coming from all of the N4G users that have their electronic engineer's degree right boys?
Marc Whitten said the same thing in an interview with VG247 that the new drivers in the Gpu allowed them to increase graphics performance. They must have already done this months ago because he stated that we will see a noticeable inprovements in visuals since the e3 showing. http://www.vg247.com/2013/0...
That's not what he said.. "get the first look at new things since E3″
Considering 10% of the Xbox One GPU is reportedly being reserved for the OS, they still have a quite ways to go. Source: http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
I like how you assume that the ps4 is going to use 100% of its power. LOL The 360 gpu nor the rsx of the ps3 hit their theoretical peak in real world scenarios and the ps3 reserved a ppu for the os. You fall into the groupmthat actually thought that the ps4 was reserving .5 gb for its os and 7.5 for games.
Unlike the x1 gpu the ps4 gpu is 100% available to developers. 10% of x1 gpu is reserved for THREE Operating systems , kinect and TV features. The ppu is a part of Cell NOT ps3 gpu..... Ant it was 1gb for os and 7gb for game, guess no1 knows that sony didnt say nothing about what amout of ram is using for os, it was just speculation from the gaming comunity. better use that google man. xD
Looks at date on link and laughs. All that crap in that neogaf article is Mularkey. Once again folks are assuming that those are the final specs posted by VGLeaks from a 2 year old Durango SDK. The x1 gpu is already powerful than ps4 before e3 GCN 2.0
"The x1 gpu is already powerful than ps4 before e3 GCN 2.0" Your link backing up that statement?
@cooguy1212 do you really think MS is going to release a console with specs from a 2 year devkit that has a 3-4 year old gpu.
Thanks for proving my point lol.
your not really smart arent you?! fun thing is that they confirmed the increase to 853hz, and a total os 1.3 tflops against 1.8 on the ps4. and yes the cpu is the same the amount of ram is than etc
I wonder sometimes what sort of damage control you're going to pull when you get get proved wrong on this. SO far I've not seen you state one single source that supports this. But that's IF you're wrong. But at least you've pruned down the spam post and removed the literal b.s. regarding Sony not being a HSA Foundation member lol. http://www.fudzilla.com/hom... "jan 2013"
Yes I do belive those specs are accurate like they were for PS4 after all Microsoft said "We purposefully did not target the highest end graphics" http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
As long as it doesn't go RROD on me, fine.
Exactly...I'm glad he's putting this in perspective
Any upgrades or boost to the system without extra cost or sacrifices are welcomed. I'm looking forward to hooking up my x1and playing with all the new features. Then its on to DR3, BF4, Rise, KI. Can't wait!!!
Yup got those preordered myseld XD
Excellent choices my good man lol
Sounds like no RROD at launch to me. Props to MS.
The fact that there still changing specs and hardware this late is sad and scary. Expect problems.
I wouldn't be comfortable knowing that either. That's a lot of scenario testing they're going to have to do in the next couple of months before the final units go into manufacturing stage, if they want to launch in November. How much testing can they do in that time to satisfy QA? We'll have to wait and see, but hopefully consumers prove their worth and do the smart thing. I don't count on that though.