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Naughty Dog says no new engine for next gen PS4? I’m concerned, are you?

SchollA from Console ControllUs writes:
(Singing) No new engine, No new engine, No new engine, No No New…still using the same engine from day one… Excuse me while I remix DJ Khaled’s ”No New Friends”.

Just poking fun, but on a serious note this piece was set to be written awhile ago. I drew some real concern right around the time when I first read the news of Naughty Dog choosing not to upgrade their engine for the next generation console of games on the PlayStation 4. Here’s why.

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xReDeMpTiOnx1723d ago

Not worried about it, it's ND they have presented us with several masterpiece titles and the change of direction of titles while proving they can do it.

No need to fear Naughty Dog is Here!

1723d ago Replies(26)
HammadTheBeast1723d ago (Edited 1723d ago )

Here's the thing.

The Last of Us managed to surpass the graphical capabilities of Uncharted 2, arguably one of the best-looking console games this Gen, just with some time on the PS3.

Just imagine what they can do with all new hardware.

Edit: Just for you ibeenwaitingpatient. Titanfall runs on the Source engine. 2005 tech yo.

To everyone else, please ignore the last line.

MWong1722d ago

I agree. TLOU was one of this current generations most beautiful and impressive games. They are going to bring this engine to the PS4 and just because they bring the engine over doesn't mean they wont tweak it.

If this was another company I would be concerned. But ND has an amazing track record, from UC 1-3 & TLoU.

dedicatedtogamers1723d ago

Anyone who says this is a bad thing either

a) doesn't know a thing about game engines, or
b) is being a snob

Havok has been in use for over 10 years. That Xbox One shooter everyone was going ga-ga over, Titanfall? Built in an engine from 2004.

"Engines" aren't something that need to change every generation.

n4rc1723d ago

So true.. They are scalable.. People on here have no clue what these engines are capable of..

I wouldn't worry about it..until I see something to worry about at least

dark-hollow1723d ago

True, a lot of games with gorgeous graphics are made with updated old engines that some of them even predate the current generation.

Building a new engine from scratch takes a very long time and cost a lot of money.

cyguration1722d ago

Exactly this.

A lot of people also don't know that "current gen" game engines are downscaled for today's current generation consoles.

Many engines have been underutilized because they've scaled well beyond the capabilities of the PS3 and Xbox 360.

I was pretty sure ND had already showcased a high-poly version of Drake in their engine before he went into the low-poly version for use in Uncharted 3 on the PS3.

More than anything they're just going to iterate and optimize the engine for the PS4. Making a new engine based on one that was never fully utilized on the PS3 would be a huge waste.

minimur121722d ago

Havok isn't a full game engine, it is a physics emgine and (obviously) provides the physics to the game.

Havok is updated year on year just look at their website.

But essentially I agree, an engine built in '04 is still providing services to a high percentage of games in the industry.

badz1491722d ago

it's true that game engines are usually scale-able but it's also true that some game engines don't age that well and need to make way for new ones. cases for example, engine used on CoD, UE3 and Valve's Source Engine.

I consider these engines as the lowest common denominators at the moment and it's actually quite telling if a mid-range pc (I really meant mid-range, not 7850 mid-range but even lower) can have max setting with 30fps...at least!

I'm not going to throw random specs here but no matter how they customize them, these engines have already past their prime and I think we all agree that CoD Ghost doesn't look very good, Portal 2 has an outdated look and almost all UE3 games look like games on a budget!

Ju1722d ago

Well, don't bring up Titanfall and Source Engine. It lacks on all ends:

- No HDR lighting
- No dynamic shadows
- No environmental animation
- No destruction

That's quite what that means. Pretty yes, but last gen tech.

With that said, though, that doesn't mean ND has to start over from scratch. I am quite sure their next iteration of the same engine will probably support all that. Just because they say they are not writing a new engine doesn't mean, that wasn't planned all along.

Guerilla added all that in KZ:SF and more and it's still based on the "old" Killzone engine. Heck, Cambridge ported this to the Vita and the result is THE best looking game on the handheld.

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thekhurg1722d ago

I'm very worried. Their current engines were built for an overly complex cell processor not standard x86 configuration.
I'd rather they built something appropriate to the hardware then try to excessively modify existing work.

shivvy241722d ago

Engines can always be tweaked and improved

Ju1722d ago

Actually, code designed for SPUs runs quite well on the PS4. Sony even is about to port SPURS to the PS4. SPURS is a SPU based job manager which can distribute jobs to SPUs - and on the PS4 to either compute (GPU) or the x86 cores (or both).

Job based systems are the future in gaming. And the CELL contributed quite a bit to this development.

thekhurg1721d ago

If they was the case they would have simply upgraded Cell. Cerny purposefully didn't do this because Cell was a clusterf*** processor that developers couldn't get a grasp of.

They're able to port code over because the PS4 can brute force it. Naughty Dog is simply going to have to put in additional effort to tune their engine for the PS4. They're not even going to be able to use the same compilers.

All this news is saying is that ND is going to be out of next-gen for a bit while they rework their engine.

Ju1721d ago (Edited 1721d ago )

PS4 can support brute force porting but it will shine with the proper approach - and that's not porting PC code. Read the KZ tech presentation:

http://www.guerrilla-games....

It explains how jobs work, how threading can be optimized, and how bandwidth can be maximized. You can't just throw a "PC engine" at it and hope it will "just run". It will run good enough, but not to it's full potential.

Unfortunately, multiplatform games will have troubles in that area:

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

"Compute is the new SPU" and in fact the APU is just so much cheaper and has a lower TDP and smaller die size.

DeadlyFire1721d ago (Edited 1721d ago )

I wouldn't worry about them porting the engine over much. PS3/X360 can do 200-400 Gigaflops right?

PS4 can do 1843.2 Gigaflops. Thats a big difference. If your making a game within the first year of the new console's lifespan. Taking the old engine over to the new system is ideal. It wouldn't take much work to get it working on the new hardware and it could run with higher framerates effortlessly as long as you code it right. Shadow Fall is the best example of this so far.

Also easier to say port a game to PS3 if you keep the same game engine. It needs support along its next 5-7 years as well.

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imt5581722d ago

Yes! Really not worried about it. Look what Quantic Dream has done with Dark Sorcerer which use a PS3 development tools from Beyond.:)

ArchangelMike1722d ago

The graphical leap for Uncharted to Uncharted 2 using the same engine was amazing. Imagine the graphical leap from TLOU to TLOU 2!!!

showtimefolks1722d ago (Edited 1722d ago )

Its ND so why are you worried Again?

RS are also using their same engine and just look at the difference from GTA4,RDR,Max Payne 3 and now GTA5

Stop worrying valve has been using source engine for a decade

ND
Sony Santa Monica

Both have their own tech teams so making a new engine won't be an issue since their engine teams are separated from their development side

Last of us at launch with PS4 make it happen Sony, ports taking 2-3 months on ps4 so it's not out of question

MazzingerZ1722d ago (Edited 1722d ago )

They said it was prepared to be upgradable without needed to rewrite it. That's building smart and cost effective, anyone that works with programming knows that's always the goal when designing a new program, module or system.

adorie1722d ago (Edited 1722d ago )

There's no need for concern. They create high-HIGH resolution assets then downsize for PS3. They can easily work with PS4 and squeeze out it's potential. Especially since, I think ICE Team is in the same building. Lmao.

wtopez1722d ago

Yup! I think it's safe to say that ND knows what they're doing.

C4rnos1721d ago

Agreed, not to mention Naughty Dog is one of Sony's most important developers; and they have worked closely together for the PS2 and PS3 launch, just have a watch of Mark Cerny's recent talks..

FunkMacNasty1721d ago

Agreed. And in addition to Naughty Dog being truly talented devs, we are still playing games on current gen systems that are running on engines that were orignally designed years ago. Quake engine anyone?? Talented devs can take an old engine and present a great game on it.

I;m sure whatever ND puts out for the Ps4 will truly be "next-gen".. I'm not worried about what engine they use

kenshiro1001721d ago (Edited 1721d ago )

ND is amazing. Whatever game they choose to do, I'm sure will be excellent. I still need to get Last of Us since I'm strapped for money atm but I hope their next game is a ninja action game. Idk, I just had a strange dream about that.

1721d ago
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Thatguy-3101723d ago

With a few tweaks I don't think we can worry. I mean look how amazing the uncharted series and the last of us looks. Plus with the more available ram this Gen I'm positive they can produce something outstanding. Naughty Dog=Brilliance.

Scholla1723d ago (Edited 1723d ago )

True! But like I mentioned in the article we may have gotten those type of quality games because they made a brand new engine that was built to take advantage of the PS3's technology and power.

Look at all the games that didn't build a engine from scratch coming from the PS2 to the PS3 or Xbox 360. Look how old and dated and far behind those games looked and played compared to ND.

I just don't want ND to become them. Now they potentially become the company with the old outdated engine. I don't want that to happen.

akaFullMetal1722d ago

You mean like from god of war 2 to 3 or killzone 3 to killzone shadow fall. Those are using engines not built for the newer consoles, and those look amazing. You don't have anything to worry about.

jc485731723d ago

I don't think people have any idea how hard it is to come up with a "new" engine.

Scholla1723d ago

Yeah,it's probably ultra hard (I could only imagine) But somehow someway we have to figure out how to push the genre forward.

JP13691723d ago

The engine building genre?

iceman061722d ago

This will happen during this generation. It just isn't feasible to do it right off the bat. These engines alone take years to develop. Let alone developing a game along with the engine. ND have pretty much perfected theirs. I am sure that it is completely scalable and since it is just PC code (incredibly complicated PC code), it shouldn't be that difficult to port and perfect for now. Once Sony and others start to use the power in different, innovative ways and as they share information. They might, indeed, need to create a new engine.

My_Name_BTW_Is_Dante1722d ago

Maybe they're not making a new engine so they can put their games on both PS3 & PS4 to make more of a profit.

M-M1723d ago

Why should we be worried? First of all, it's Naughty Dog. Secondly, if your current engine looks and runs great, then why not build from that and make it better? It would cost too much money to create a new engine from scratch.

Scholla1721d ago (Edited 1721d ago )

It seems the consensus here is you all trust ND to do what they always do and that's produce high quality product -- me too, they've earn it. It's just....

I think we all could agree "New on New is better than Old on New" Think about it, would you rather have 1080p upscaled or "true" 1080p?

jc485731723d ago (Edited 1723d ago )

are we also not forgetting Sony's ICE Engine team? Most of Sony games are built around resources and programs built by ICE.

shivvy241722d ago

And the resources are shared between first party devs