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Naughty Dog says no new engine for next gen PS4? I’m concerned, are you?

SchollA from Console ControllUs writes:
(Singing) No new engine, No new engine, No new engine, No No New…still using the same engine from day one… Excuse me while I remix DJ Khaled’s ”No New Friends”.

Just poking fun, but on a serious note this piece was set to be written awhile ago. I drew some real concern right around the time when I first read the news of Naughty Dog choosing not to upgrade their engine for the next generation console of games on the PlayStation 4. Here’s why.

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xReDeMpTiOnx1153d ago

Not worried about it, it's ND they have presented us with several masterpiece titles and the change of direction of titles while proving they can do it.

No need to fear Naughty Dog is Here!

The_Infected1153d ago (Edited 1153d ago )

While I'm not worried an engine built from the ground up would obviously outperform a last generation engine. Then again Killzone: Shadow Fall is just using an updated engine and look how good their game looks.

GameNameFame1153d ago

You can heavily upgrade engines to take full advantage of hardwares.

If specs dont matter, why do we see graphical jump from PS3, Xbox 360 to PS4 and X1?

You are just desperately trying to deny the graphical gap between two console on unrelated issues.

The_Infected1153d ago PersonalAttacksShow
TomShoe1153d ago

@Patient

Quit being a hater.

Ezz20131153d ago (Edited 1153d ago )

@ibeenwaitingpatient

let me shock your brain
God of war 3 GFX engine was an updated GOW Ps2 Engine ...not a new one

This is GOW ps2
http://www.the-nextlevel.co...

This is GOW3
http://www.videogamesblogge...

specs don't matter right ?! lolXD

GOW3 have almost CGI GFX and one of the very best looking games ever made on consoles
you should stop talking now

oh and specs do matter as well as the price too
and ps4 is just perfect in both ;)

guitarded771152d ago

At this point, upgraded engines are going to be the norm. There is a heavy investment in creating a new engine, then the bugs have to be worked out. Look at programming languages. Many are old, but have had major improvements over the years. Same goes with engines. There can be so many changes made that it is impossible to identify v3.0 from v1.0.

abzdine1152d ago (Edited 1152d ago )

i'm not concerned, it's ND we're talking about!
look at other companies who claim they're updating their engine and you realize it's always the same.

If you have played The Last of Us you will realize that game has lots of next gen things in it!
ND ftw when it comes to performance, and just like they did on PS3 they will once more show what PS4 has under the hood.

darthv721152d ago

no doubt these guys can take their existing skills from the PS3 and transition them to the PS4.

On a side note, i'd love to see them bring back way of the warrior for next gen. that was a good fighter back in the 3do days.

Mounce1152d ago

Same could be half-said for Kojima's Fox Engine. It's heavily catered for both Current and next-gen hardware and yet it looks damn freaking impressive on current-gen and I'm sure we'll be blown away once we for instance get footage on what MGSV is like on PS4 and the like.

Naughty Dog as a whole aren't incompetent, if they say they're fine. It isn't due to laziness or EA-inspired bullshit or money-saving tactics like COD, it's because they know their engine is plenty-capable.

Hydrolex1152d ago

As long as their games are going to feel like next gen games and look like next gen games, BRING IT ON SON !!! I don't CARE

minimur121152d ago

Why be concerned about no new engine, everyone has seen the graphical qualities of TLOU which proves what that engine is capable of, along with the AI, yet you're concerned?

I read the original interview when he said this, months ago and the decision was based on when they built a new engine from ps2>ps3, and they effed it up massively apparently, so they are deciding to stick with the one they have at the moment, and that if they ever hit a hurdle they'd just upgrade that part of the engine. If you go over to a new generation with an already amazing engine, everyone wins. MD don't have to spend years making an engine, the consumers don't have to wait for ND to first build the engine, then make the game.

mistertwoturbo1152d ago

No concerns at all. And honestly, ND's biggest strength isn't just graphics or engines, it's storytelling. All the diehard PC guys who can play games at 4 times the resolution of current consoles, don't even get something like the Last of Us. Graphics is great to a point, but it's Naughty Dog we're talking about here. They have make hit after hit.

_-EDMIX-_1152d ago

people confuse the "engine" with the reason behind why a game looks so good. I think this is due to the wording "engine" it suggest something "solid" when in terms of PC, engine is actually refereeing to software makeup.

Take Crysis for example, if you run Crysis on low settings it doesn't look all that great, yet the console version of Crysis 1 looks like Crysis PC on low settings.

Why? Its on the CryEngine and should look "boss" yet it doesn't?

The Engine is just a small part of it, its just the base set of tools. The Hardware is what will define just how good a game will look and always. The software really has a lot to do with what they can "push" with the hardware.

Them not making a new engine means little to nothing, PS3 and 360 games don't really need "new" engines for next gen. Take into consideration what I just said about Crysis.

Look at it on low, now look at it on ultra....yet its running ON THE SAME ENGINE! current gen systems already have what it takes to just look better on the next gen, ie texture, mapping etc. All the other fancy stuff like Ray tracing etc they will clearly either update the engine or just make a new one. But I don't feel it makes sense really to make a new engine, when last gen's hardware didn't really force a team to make new tool sets.

http://www.thebuzzmedia.com...

^ is Crysis on low

http://i6.minus.com/i9AI50i...

that is Crysis on high. Note...same engine different look solely based on settings ie system hardware specs.

Make Crysis on ultra on a lets say PS4 and make it on lets say PS3 and NOW you clearly understand why they don't need to make a new engine to do such a thing. If Crysis was a PS3 exclusive by Naughty Dog, and they made a sequel on PS4 ON THE SAME ENGINE would you NOW say they should make a new engine? Do you now understand that, that is really not necessary?

badz1491152d ago

out of all the devs out there, this author is concerned about ND? like...seriously? he's joking, right?

Unlimax1152d ago

Well they have their own Engine . its Called : Naughty Dog

turgore1152d ago

But imagine how could it would look if it were made from scratch !

fr0sty1152d ago (Edited 1152d ago )

If you're concerned, it means you want Naughty Dog to have to wait another 2 years to develop new tech and new tools from the ground up, then another 2-3 years to actually develop the game. By using existing engines and just augmenting new abilities into it, they can get us a good game much faster. Don't worry, they will hack the current build apart and put in new code to make it take advantage of the new capabilities of the PS4. This is Naughty Dog we're talking about here, the developers that made the PS3 sing the best. They know what they are doing, better than almost everyone here. Let them do their thing.

And don't act like their current engine isn't incredible. Boost it's abilities by adding new shader capability and higher resolution/framerate (as well as better AA, AF, etc), and you have one amazing looking game already. And they have shown that they will keep on refining that engine throughout the generation, as we saw in the leaps made from Uncharted 1 to The Last of Us.

President1152d ago

What a dumb article. GoW3 used the same engine from GoW on PS2. You dont have to worry about anything but your sensationalist headline.

quantae061152d ago (Edited 1152d ago )

@The_Infected

Killzone Shadowfall doesn't look much better then Crysis 3 on 360. But Naughty Dog are going to bring it harder then that. If Uncharted 3 pushes graphics then expect the next one on updated hardware to increase even further. Now, I'm not a graphics whore at all. But ND don't mess around when it comes to that stuff. They don't need a new engine. They can just modify what they already have and the graphics will be there.

FamilyGuy1152d ago

As I recall ND had some in-depth video relating to The Last of Us showing their engine doing its facial capture thing and the faces alone of the character models they use start off in the millions of polygons and are then scaled down to work on the PS3. With the PS4 they simply just have less down-scaling to do.

So yeah, I'm not worried either. They already have a great engine so it'd faster to just tweek it. Just means we'll see a ND game release on the PS4 faster as building an engine from the ground up would take some time on its own.

lategamer1152d ago

A lot of engines aren't built from ground up. A lot of time, building it up from ground up while you have a perfectly viable engine is a waste of time. New engines take a lot of time and money, and sometimes can result on more issues.

mewhy321151d ago

I don't feel that Naughty Dog needs a new engine. The engine that they have is already leagues ahead of almost everything out there. Why would you invest all that time and money to scrap an incredible engine and start over when you can add to that great base and have your engine next gen ready from the get go? It appears that, not only is Naughty Dog great at making the best games in the industry, but they're also great at knowing you don't fix something if it isn't broken. Cheers Naughty Dog, for being the most talented development team in the world and telling great and gripping stories through videogames.

Peanuts1101151d ago

Looks like last generation games were running on minimum setting. Now they are pushing the lever over to maximum setting for next generation. Nice way to save money and maximize profits. I sure once the install base gets over 1 to 2 million then they will invest the money to develop a new engine. It's probably no different from previous generation changes.

tokugawa1151d ago

i think that many will people will be shocked next gen when they realise just how many studios are using engines from this gen..

nothing really to worry about at the moment.

bligmerk1151d ago

What a horrible article. It is typical of the uneducated gamer going off on a tangent from a subject they know nothing about.

TLOU, like UC1, UC2, UC3, consisted of gameplay, scripted cutscenes, and hi-rez movie scenes. As has been pointed out many times, these are all in-engine and hardware rendered. The difference is the hi-rez movie scenes are being run at possibly 1 or 2 frames per second in real time and converted to a movie cutscene.

The difference this time around for an upgraded engine is the number of polygons, light effects and texture sizes and how fast those can be crunched. Last gen hardware just maxed out on what amounts to low-poly count characters and less-than-HD textures. The engine is capable of running higher poly characters with photorealistic textures but the hardware craps out. Now, new hardware. Now, Naughty Dog can start using million-plus poly count for their main characters, with photo-real textures, shader and light effects galore. Remember, Naughty Dog has said for years, their basic game engine is very scaleable. Nyah, nothing to worry about, more like preparing to be dazzled and blown away.

SilentNegotiator1151d ago

No one completely redoes their engine every time a new gen happens.

+ Show (23) more repliesLast reply 1151d ago
HammadTheBeast1153d ago (Edited 1153d ago )

Here's the thing.

The Last of Us managed to surpass the graphical capabilities of Uncharted 2, arguably one of the best-looking console games this Gen, just with some time on the PS3.

Just imagine what they can do with all new hardware.

Edit: Just for you ibeenwaitingpatient. Titanfall runs on the Source engine. 2005 tech yo.

To everyone else, please ignore the last line.

MWong1152d ago

I agree. TLOU was one of this current generations most beautiful and impressive games. They are going to bring this engine to the PS4 and just because they bring the engine over doesn't mean they wont tweak it.

If this was another company I would be concerned. But ND has an amazing track record, from UC 1-3 & TLoU.

dedicatedtogamers1153d ago

Anyone who says this is a bad thing either

a) doesn't know a thing about game engines, or
b) is being a snob

Havok has been in use for over 10 years. That Xbox One shooter everyone was going ga-ga over, Titanfall? Built in an engine from 2004.

"Engines" aren't something that need to change every generation.

n4rc1153d ago

So true.. They are scalable.. People on here have no clue what these engines are capable of..

I wouldn't worry about it..until I see something to worry about at least

dark-hollow1153d ago

True, a lot of games with gorgeous graphics are made with updated old engines that some of them even predate the current generation.

Building a new engine from scratch takes a very long time and cost a lot of money.

cyguration1152d ago

Exactly this.

A lot of people also don't know that "current gen" game engines are downscaled for today's current generation consoles.

Many engines have been underutilized because they've scaled well beyond the capabilities of the PS3 and Xbox 360.

I was pretty sure ND had already showcased a high-poly version of Drake in their engine before he went into the low-poly version for use in Uncharted 3 on the PS3.

More than anything they're just going to iterate and optimize the engine for the PS4. Making a new engine based on one that was never fully utilized on the PS3 would be a huge waste.

minimur121152d ago

Havok isn't a full game engine, it is a physics emgine and (obviously) provides the physics to the game.

Havok is updated year on year just look at their website.

But essentially I agree, an engine built in '04 is still providing services to a high percentage of games in the industry.

badz1491152d ago

it's true that game engines are usually scale-able but it's also true that some game engines don't age that well and need to make way for new ones. cases for example, engine used on CoD, UE3 and Valve's Source Engine.

I consider these engines as the lowest common denominators at the moment and it's actually quite telling if a mid-range pc (I really meant mid-range, not 7850 mid-range but even lower) can have max setting with 30fps...at least!

I'm not going to throw random specs here but no matter how they customize them, these engines have already past their prime and I think we all agree that CoD Ghost doesn't look very good, Portal 2 has an outdated look and almost all UE3 games look like games on a budget!

Ju1152d ago

Well, don't bring up Titanfall and Source Engine. It lacks on all ends:

- No HDR lighting
- No dynamic shadows
- No environmental animation
- No destruction

That's quite what that means. Pretty yes, but last gen tech.

With that said, though, that doesn't mean ND has to start over from scratch. I am quite sure their next iteration of the same engine will probably support all that. Just because they say they are not writing a new engine doesn't mean, that wasn't planned all along.

Guerilla added all that in KZ:SF and more and it's still based on the "old" Killzone engine. Heck, Cambridge ported this to the Vita and the result is THE best looking game on the handheld.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 1152d ago
thekhurg1152d ago

I'm very worried. Their current engines were built for an overly complex cell processor not standard x86 configuration.
I'd rather they built something appropriate to the hardware then try to excessively modify existing work.

shivvy241152d ago

Engines can always be tweaked and improved

Ju1152d ago

Actually, code designed for SPUs runs quite well on the PS4. Sony even is about to port SPURS to the PS4. SPURS is a SPU based job manager which can distribute jobs to SPUs - and on the PS4 to either compute (GPU) or the x86 cores (or both).

Job based systems are the future in gaming. And the CELL contributed quite a bit to this development.

thekhurg1151d ago

If they was the case they would have simply upgraded Cell. Cerny purposefully didn't do this because Cell was a clusterf*** processor that developers couldn't get a grasp of.

They're able to port code over because the PS4 can brute force it. Naughty Dog is simply going to have to put in additional effort to tune their engine for the PS4. They're not even going to be able to use the same compilers.

All this news is saying is that ND is going to be out of next-gen for a bit while they rework their engine.

Ju1151d ago (Edited 1151d ago )

PS4 can support brute force porting but it will shine with the proper approach - and that's not porting PC code. Read the KZ tech presentation:

http://www.guerrilla-games....

It explains how jobs work, how threading can be optimized, and how bandwidth can be maximized. You can't just throw a "PC engine" at it and hope it will "just run". It will run good enough, but not to it's full potential.

Unfortunately, multiplatform games will have troubles in that area:

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

"Compute is the new SPU" and in fact the APU is just so much cheaper and has a lower TDP and smaller die size.

DeadlyFire1151d ago (Edited 1151d ago )

I wouldn't worry about them porting the engine over much. PS3/X360 can do 200-400 Gigaflops right?

PS4 can do 1843.2 Gigaflops. Thats a big difference. If your making a game within the first year of the new console's lifespan. Taking the old engine over to the new system is ideal. It wouldn't take much work to get it working on the new hardware and it could run with higher framerates effortlessly as long as you code it right. Shadow Fall is the best example of this so far.

Also easier to say port a game to PS3 if you keep the same game engine. It needs support along its next 5-7 years as well.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 1151d ago
imt5581152d ago

Yes! Really not worried about it. Look what Quantic Dream has done with Dark Sorcerer which use a PS3 development tools from Beyond.:)

ArchangelMike1152d ago

The graphical leap for Uncharted to Uncharted 2 using the same engine was amazing. Imagine the graphical leap from TLOU to TLOU 2!!!

showtimefolks1152d ago (Edited 1152d ago )

Its ND so why are you worried Again?

RS are also using their same engine and just look at the difference from GTA4,RDR,Max Payne 3 and now GTA5

Stop worrying valve has been using source engine for a decade

ND
Sony Santa Monica

Both have their own tech teams so making a new engine won't be an issue since their engine teams are separated from their development side

Last of us at launch with PS4 make it happen Sony, ports taking 2-3 months on ps4 so it's not out of question

MazzingerZ1152d ago (Edited 1152d ago )

They said it was prepared to be upgradable without needed to rewrite it. That's building smart and cost effective, anyone that works with programming knows that's always the goal when designing a new program, module or system.

adorie1152d ago (Edited 1152d ago )

There's no need for concern. They create high-HIGH resolution assets then downsize for PS3. They can easily work with PS4 and squeeze out it's potential. Especially since, I think ICE Team is in the same building. Lmao.

wtopez1152d ago

Yup! I think it's safe to say that ND knows what they're doing.

C4rnos1151d ago

Agreed, not to mention Naughty Dog is one of Sony's most important developers; and they have worked closely together for the PS2 and PS3 launch, just have a watch of Mark Cerny's recent talks..

FunkMacNasty1151d ago

Agreed. And in addition to Naughty Dog being truly talented devs, we are still playing games on current gen systems that are running on engines that were orignally designed years ago. Quake engine anyone?? Talented devs can take an old engine and present a great game on it.

I;m sure whatever ND puts out for the Ps4 will truly be "next-gen".. I'm not worried about what engine they use

kenshiro1001151d ago (Edited 1151d ago )

ND is amazing. Whatever game they choose to do, I'm sure will be excellent. I still need to get Last of Us since I'm strapped for money atm but I hope their next game is a ninja action game. Idk, I just had a strange dream about that.

mcgorman151151d ago SpamShow
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Thatguy-3101153d ago

With a few tweaks I don't think we can worry. I mean look how amazing the uncharted series and the last of us looks. Plus with the more available ram this Gen I'm positive they can produce something outstanding. Naughty Dog=Brilliance.

Scholla1153d ago (Edited 1153d ago )

True! But like I mentioned in the article we may have gotten those type of quality games because they made a brand new engine that was built to take advantage of the PS3's technology and power.

Look at all the games that didn't build a engine from scratch coming from the PS2 to the PS3 or Xbox 360. Look how old and dated and far behind those games looked and played compared to ND.

I just don't want ND to become them. Now they potentially become the company with the old outdated engine. I don't want that to happen.

akaFullMetal1152d ago

You mean like from god of war 2 to 3 or killzone 3 to killzone shadow fall. Those are using engines not built for the newer consoles, and those look amazing. You don't have anything to worry about.

jc485731153d ago

I don't think people have any idea how hard it is to come up with a "new" engine.

Scholla1153d ago

Yeah,it's probably ultra hard (I could only imagine) But somehow someway we have to figure out how to push the genre forward.

JP13691153d ago

The engine building genre?

iceman061152d ago

This will happen during this generation. It just isn't feasible to do it right off the bat. These engines alone take years to develop. Let alone developing a game along with the engine. ND have pretty much perfected theirs. I am sure that it is completely scalable and since it is just PC code (incredibly complicated PC code), it shouldn't be that difficult to port and perfect for now. Once Sony and others start to use the power in different, innovative ways and as they share information. They might, indeed, need to create a new engine.

My_Name_BTW_Is_Dante1152d ago

Maybe they're not making a new engine so they can put their games on both PS3 & PS4 to make more of a profit.

M-M1153d ago

Why should we be worried? First of all, it's Naughty Dog. Secondly, if your current engine looks and runs great, then why not build from that and make it better? It would cost too much money to create a new engine from scratch.

Scholla1151d ago (Edited 1151d ago )

It seems the consensus here is you all trust ND to do what they always do and that's produce high quality product -- me too, they've earn it. It's just....

I think we all could agree "New on New is better than Old on New" Think about it, would you rather have 1080p upscaled or "true" 1080p?

jc485731153d ago (Edited 1153d ago )

are we also not forgetting Sony's ICE Engine team? Most of Sony games are built around resources and programs built by ICE.

shivvy241152d ago

And the resources are shared between first party devs