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Submitted by moegooner88 263d ago | news

The Japanese man Phil Fish told “your games just SUCK” has some words for him

Now that Phil Fish has announced he's quitting games due to twitter slandering, Makoto Goto has some words for him. (Culture, Makoto Goto, Phil Fish)

Donnieboi  +   263d ago | Well said
Goto is a far more admirable man than Fish. Well played Goto. Just smile, be nice and keep improving. A life well lived is the best revenge. I like how he even tried to encourage Fish. If Fish still acts like an idiot after this, than he is beyond reach.

Edit: Also Fish has the opportunity to see the forgiveness that Goto showed, and apply the same forgiveness towards Beer. Yeah Beer is a total jerk, but considering that Fish did to others what Beer did to him, he should just let it go. No need for Beer to be stigmatized as being any worse than Fish (whether Beer should be fired or not, however, is an issue for his employers And their sponsors to determine). Let this be a slap on the wrist for Beer, and a reminder to Fish on what it's like to be humiliated publicly when unprovoked.
#1 (Edited 263d ago ) | Agree(56) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
cleft5  +   263d ago
Completely agree. Goto is clearly a class act. It takes a really strong person to keep doing what they are doing after having a room full of people laugh at them for asking a simple question.

Personally, I have no tolerance for people like Phil Fish. I don't agree with the comments made against him and clearly Marcus Beer went to far, but Fish is hardly an angel. Fish is clearly talented, but his complete lack of class is getting in the way of enjoying his games and that is never a good thing.
#1.1 (Edited 263d ago ) | Agree(30) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
iceman06  +   263d ago
Bubs...well said!
darkride66  +   262d ago
http://www.gametrailers.com...

Surprised to see this as news. Fish long since apologised to Goto and clarified his remarks, and Goto responded. He made some interesting observations on modern Japanese game development. It's too bad so often developers comments are distilled down to sound bites or completely taken without context. Also interesting that Jonothan Blow echoed the exact same sentiment in a harsher manner and no one said boo about that, instead focusing on Fish's lighthearted jest.

But hey. Site's gotta get hits, amirite? No news to report? Take something out of context and make it a story!
XboxFun  +   263d ago
And people are defending Phil Fish? Good riddance!
Clarence  +   263d ago
Yeah people like cliff. I'm glad Phil is not making his game. That's how weak he is. He thinks by not making his game he's hurting us.
XboxFun  +   263d ago
Exactly, you act like an azz and expect this great sadness for not releasing FEZ II?

Like Fez was this ground breaking game that changed the world.

I'll enjoy the thousands of other great indie titles for my console.
Nicolee  +   262d ago
I just read his twitter and his attitude is absolutely stink.
specialguest  +   262d ago
Agreed. I just peeked into his twitter and it seems like he's having a major a**hole attitude meltdown.
SolidDuck  +   263d ago
Fish is just being a baby. He basically just took his ball and went home. Look if your in the public eye, and make a form of entertainment, like video games, or movies. Some people are going to love your work and tell u how great u are. And some will hate it and bash u for it. The fact that someone at gametrailers got so under his skin that he just quit all together seems ridiculous. I think fish needs therapy, no one should let a twitter battle alter the life like that. Seems super dumb.
Mr-SellJack  +   263d ago
Big bow to him
Shad0wRunner  +   263d ago
Well....im sorry but I kinda have to agree with him on that.

Phish makes a lot of very good, valid points. In fact, the entire panel did.

Japanese games try to do too much for you, the player...and they take out a lot of the mystery and joy of having to discover things and do things on your own. You gotta have a pop up dialogue bubble for just about everything in most of these games...and it's not necessary. Let us play the game and let us figure it out on our own, without you basically telling us what to do and where to go. Im a big boy. I dont need you to hold my hand.

Phish is blunt and yeah, his comment was a little insulting...but it was true, nonetheless.

EDIT: Here is a perfect example of what Im talking about. The Legend Of Zelda - Wind Waker. Just look at how they practically tell you what to do. Theres no mystery to it. No self discovery and no self satisfaction. This type of game design NEEDS TO GO!

http://www.youtube.com/watc...
#5 (Edited 263d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(33) | Report | Reply
kingdip90  +   263d ago
I think coming up with one example of handholding and saying it applies to all japanese games is a little short sighted and prejudiced.

While I agree that the legend of zelda games do have some handholding there is plenty to discover on your own. The big gorons sword quest from ocarina of time is an example of optional stuff laying in around in those games.

As for speech bubbles explaining things some games are about the plot and how the story unforlds rather than figuring out how to navigate the world you play in. Rpg's are a huge genre where this happens, they are story driven with a gameplay focus on battle machanics and grinding to prepare for the next big battle.

I know many people who appreciate japanese games for these things and more and simply because you may not see the appeal does not mean that this has to go it just means you shouldnt play those games, mocking them is pointless.
TheTwelve  +   263d ago
Why does it need to go? Why can't things just be different? Must every game be created just how you or Phil Fish or other haters of Japanese games want?

Why must it go?

Japanese games tend to me more complex than the average Western game, and so such tutorials in the beginning are necessary. Even Western games that get complex in terms of gameplay (like Mass Effect 2) have to hold your hand in the beginning.

And the best Western game this gen (in my opinion), Xcom, has an entire opening tutorial mode that will hold your hand for hours.

Phil Fish and Johnathan Blow have created games that master the art of simplicity but they can't compare their style to games that end up getting a lot of complex and intricate.

12
Clarence  +   263d ago
Demon souls was one of the hardest games I've played since my Nintendo days. As far as games go COD, Gears, KZ, Alan wake, mass effect tell you exactly what to do. Phil comment was BS.

We need more developers like Moto because we know he's going to do his best to go beyond the average game. Developers like Phil will become complacent and make the same old game over and over.

He made one game called Fez and he thinks he God. He reminds me of JP from grandmas boy
http://m.youtube.com/watch?...
#5.3 (Edited 263d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Hicken  +   263d ago
Sorry, but it was NOT true.

Considering all the big Western games tend to hold your hand for like the first hour of the game easy(Batman, for example?), it's hard to even make the argument that it's a Japanese-only thing.

The problem is that you- and Fish, for that matter- generalized based on a game or two, and totally ignored all the situations where that ISN'T the case.

Such blanket statements and assumptions NEED TO GO.

Anyway, big ups on Goto for his humble and encouraging remarks.
Tultras  +   262d ago
LOL, I feel the Japanese games are the games which don't hold your hand. WESTERN GAMES are the ones that are so damn easy.

Ever played the Souls series?
HyperBear  +   263d ago
Jesus....I just found out now that Phil Fish is a Canadian :O

I apologize on behalf of my fellow Canadian gamers and developers that this guy does not represent gamers or developers of this fine land, and actually make all of us look foolish and childish, and we do not act like that. On the other hand, he is French-Canadian, so that explains the cocky-ness and smartass demeanor of himself, but that still doesn't sit well with me.

Sorry Phil, I'm putting you in my Canadian "Book of Whom to Exile" list, right under Geoff Keighley.
Tultras  +   262d ago
Why does him being part-French explain his cocky-ness and smartass demeanour? Racist. Alert.
HyperBear  +   262d ago
If you were a Canadian or have ever visited Quebec/Montreal, you would know exactly what I'm talking about.

Plus, it was meant to be a sarcastic stereotype pun, forgot to put the '/ssp' at the end. Even though I may not like Quebec, primarily because how I was treated when I went there, There's a reason why they are the capital of the comedy world...they like being funny and they can take the jabs/jokes given to them.
#6.1.1 (Edited 262d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report
segamon  +   263d ago
that was inspiring. I think what goes around comes around, this time what Fish invested its results came in the form of Marcus Beer and instead of learning from this experience and turn it into something positive, instead, we get this.

I like your game Fish but I think you should get out of the aquarium you live in to the ocean of reality.

what goes around comes around.
#7 (Edited 263d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
TheTwelve  +   263d ago
That video will go down in history as an example of excess pride, hubris and conceit.
kingdip90  +   263d ago
Excess pride, hubris and conceit is exactly what is wrong with the industry.

I remember gaming in the 80's, I had a sinclair zx spectrum and I could buy a magazene every month with an attached cassette with free games that what would be called indie games developers made just for the love of fun and gaming.

I really hope with the openness of gaming towards indies that something close to this can happen again (albeit digitally) as it really drove gaming to be what it is today and can evolve the hobby past stale AAA budget driven games
iceman06  +   263d ago
I'm not usually one to quote the Bible, but this is spot on from Proverbs...
"Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before stumbling. It is better to be humble in spirit with the lowly Than to divide the spoil with the proud."
TheTwelve  +   262d ago
Well said.
yewles1  +   263d ago
"Less Fish, more Goto" is what I say...
Shad0wRunner  +   263d ago
Youre judging the man based on his previous behavior and his blunt comments, instead of accepting the facts for what they are.

His behavior and demeanor pale in comparison when the entire panel had his back and agreed with him. This isnt just another epic "Phish meltdown moment"...this is coming from an entire panel of people who feel the same way.

Turn your noses up at it all you want...but what they said about Japanese games, for the most part...are true. Watch the video, instead of just commenting on the title.
segamon  +   263d ago
with all due respect, I don't buy what you just said.
#10.1 (Edited 263d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
HyperBear  +   263d ago
Oh I watched it, and your telling me that what Fish said didn't bother you? What about if you went to Japan, were all they speak is Japanese and maybe a tad bit of English, and you asked a question to a panel of developers, and you got ridiculed and laughed at by the entire panel because your from a different nationality and those developers said the games you play "SUCK!", and the room if filled with only Japanese people and they are laughing at you as well? How would you feel?

FISH(quote): "They suck! I'm sorry you guys need to get with the times and make better interfaces...and like...update your technology....We're totally kicking your ass"

At least Jonathon Blow did it better IMO, he said that he thought their games sucked, but didn't mock the guy or downplay him, and instead addressed some of the issues he had with recent Japanese developed games, to which the rest of the panel agreed with. Everyone was laughing at Phil cause he was being an ass and they couldn't believe he said what he said.
Shad0wRunner  +   263d ago
So you would rather a panel of developers LIE to you and sugar coat it, just because of nationality?

It doesnt matter what country youre from or what country youre in or what your skin color is. If youre a developer, you should be able to take the sting of criticism. Same goes for movie producers and directors.

Simon Cowell from the former American Idol, had no problems telling people they suck, lol.

The video game industry, like most entertainment and media industries...are very competitive by nature. If you wanna run with the big dogs, dont expect to be treated like a puppy. It's a bold and cutthroat world out there. If you cant take a little bloody nose now and then, you might as well run back home and cry to mommy.

Just sayin...
HyperBear  +   263d ago
But don't you think there is a better way to conceive your message or to even get your message across that doesn't come across as arrogant or hypocritical?

I would rather them tell me the truth about what games I'm developing, but also offer insight on what I can/could do to improve on it, rather than have some idiot tell me my games suck and they are kicking my ass. Or is this literally how the future looks with people degrading other people?

I understand the need for harsh criticism every once in a while. Athlete's go under it every day if their team is under-performing and their stats are terrible....but these are indie game developers. They should be trying to help each other out and to 'create' great gaming experiences together and not segregate certain people based on nationality, race, color, etc.

And LOL at the Simon Cowell reference, except for the fact he was getting paid to be a prick and it is reality TV, but I got it! To each their own...
segamon  +   263d ago
well said HyperBear, both comments.
Hicken  +   262d ago
There was no need to LIE, but it's highly unprofessional to say, "You guys suck."

And his explanation- as quoted above- is garbage. It doesn't really explain anything. What interfaces? How are interfaces in Western games better? Update their technology? As opposed to... what? The facial tech used in LA Noire that helped shut down the studio that made the game?

His own game isn't exactly ground-breaking on the tech or interface fronts. So exactly where does he get the right to call somebody else out?

Bottom line: he was out of line.
jut420  +   262d ago
"If you cant take a little bloody nose now and then, you might as well run back home and cry to mommy."

...and cancel your game...
kalkano  +   263d ago
This industry needs LESS people like Fish. He's an arrogant asshole, who thinks his opinion is all that matters.
xYakuzaz  +   262d ago
Agreed, absolute pure and utter prick...
Sarobi  +   263d ago
I don't hate Fish, but I think he definitely needs a more positive output on things. I think Fish is a talented person who could be working on something great, but he's too sensitive. I hope he can get his act together and just come to peace with people.
iceman06  +   263d ago
He just needs to come to peace with himself. He just didn't seem happy. That was obvious. Maybe it was a case of too much too soon. He wasn't expecting to be, or maybe never wanted to be, in the spotlight. Who knows!?! All I know is he needs to sort it out IF he wants to come back and be happy and successful.
It will be a difficult and trying road to mend the fences, but a great game and a genuine attitude adjustment could change minds pretty quickly.
Sarobi  +   262d ago
Yeah. I think that after all the struggle he went through with Fez, the very least he felt was relieved, but certainly not happy. I know many people don't like him and think hes a dick and what not, but he's an interesting character in this industry. I really hope he puts some thought into this and continues with Fez II
The_Truth_24_7  +   262d ago
Lol. Japanese sarcasm.
Master-H  +   262d ago
Hes a fish groupie now or was all of that sarcasm ? i can't tell lol
Nicolee  +   262d ago
I feel sorry for that guy ,standing in the middle of whole room of people laughing
xYakuzaz  +   262d ago
Yeah what a bunch of assholes
xYakuzaz  +   262d ago
Phil Fish is a f**king scumbag just looking for attention

Also: How do Japanese games suck? JRPG's are fantastic, Japan is responsible for most of the best RPG's like Demon's Souls, Dark Souls etc... yet most US games are simply just take a gun and shoot everything that moves.
#16 (Edited 262d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
quaneylfc  +   262d ago
I dont like japanese games either, but unlike phil fish...I don't think any of them are stupid cunts.
manageri   262d ago | Spam
Sigh  +   262d ago
All class. Major Respect Makoto Goto!
RockmanII7  +   262d ago
I watched the gameplay video for his game "Heart Boiled"... you know Phil Fish wasn't exactly wrong. Makoto seems like a nice enough person but cmon that looks like something I would make and I'm ass.
MuhammadJA  +   262d ago
He could just say it normally like for example: "Your recent games are not very good" or something like that, but NO, he had to say it like a douche: "your games suck!1!1" and the people laughing with him. Man what assholes, I just felt like punching them in the nuts.
KillrateOmega  +   262d ago
You know, I was starting to taking pity on Fish and his predicament, but after reading Goto's tweets and he handled criticism as compared to how Fish handled his own similar situation? I feel no more pity, especially after seeing Fish's most recent tweets.

Fish got a taste of his own medicine and instead of using it as inspiration to do better, he threw a temper tantrum and quit. Fish is pathetic.
#22 (Edited 262d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
vitaman  +   261d ago
its a blow to fish everywhere!!!

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