Submitted by doctorstrange 764d ago | news

DmC Devil May Cry Developer’s Co-Founder “Can Empathize With” Phil Fish

Before, during, and after DmC Devil May Cry from Ninja Theory launched – a reboot of the series with an overhauled Dante – there was a lot of hate coming from the gaming community. Despite good critical reception, DmC failed to be a big blockbuster for Capcom, though they did report it had “solid sales.” - PSLS (DmC: Devil May Cry, PC, Phil Fish, PS3, Xbox 360)

Need4Game  +   765d ago
Don't Mess With Dante's Looks, the Game will Fail in becoming Blockbuster, even if you bust it with Giant Swords.
HammadTheBeast  +   765d ago
Wasn't even the looks, they made the character from a "noble rebel", into a complete jackass who sniped the babies out of pregnant demons.
bowserone  +   764d ago
False. I can tell you didn't even touched the game or at best went in all negative. VIRGIL was the shooter. Dmc was the most unfairly hated game this gen. All the fanboys swore the reviews would slaughter it but all the major outlets and even reviewers like jim from destructoid enjoyed it. So the haters took to metacritic and what not. Half of the people who talk shit on dmc don't even get the plot or characters right. It wasn't gamings gift to mankind but it didn't hurt the series....dmc 2 did that. Also capcom had replaced dante with nero in the last game....which is a strong indicator that the series wasgrowing stale and they were gona dump it. Don't belive me? Look at all the canclled mega man titles. Most people just jumped on that we hate the tarseem guy at ninja theory band wagon. But DMC was a good game it had its issues but so called fans sending death threats over a game is pathetic.
CrossingEden  +   764d ago
um, first of all, old dante killed a demon's newborn babies in front of her, let her grieve, and then shot her and made a joke about it, http://www.youtube.com/watc...
second of all, that "baby" was the antichrist, um wtf was vergil supposed to do, let it live, when it was already extremely powerful as a fetus -_- "oh this poor poor demon, it was so cute and loveable and definitely didn't try killing dante at all"
look at that cute little face, so innocent
zeal0us  +   764d ago
It was the overall character that people didn't care for. That and some people complain about the fps rate and that some people felt game was too easy compared to older titles.

Who knows maybe it could've sold more if NT said it was a new story featuring new characters in the DMC universe rather than a reboot.
#1.2 (Edited 764d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
Blank  +   764d ago
Well not speaking for everyone but honestly they wouldve done way bette if it was a whole new IP entirely. As for the question if I prefer no dmc game at all I honestly dont know im sure other people have other dev teams they wouldve chosen to make a new dmc game. I live in the present and I hope Capcom regroups and really thinks things out next come around.
dredgewalker  +   764d ago
The look was only a small factor, it was more on changing the whole game into something that was barely recognizable by the fans of the series. Also it didn't help that the developers disrespected the fans and even trolled them. They had it coming.
CrossingEden  +   764d ago
so dmc is about a demon hunter killing demons in as many stylish ways as possible in the gameplay, wait wait, so this is your idea of unrecognizable?
or how about the extremely good attention to detail in the references to the old series
and no, the developers didn't disrespect the fans, the fans were extremely immature and didn't respect the developers and couldn't even accept the fact that they had different opinions about some aspects of the series, like the extreme objectification of women, sorry but this isn't how people would dress in a modern setting UNLESS you're a prostitute http://images2.wikia.nocook...
dredgewalker  +   764d ago
You're not into the anime culture aren't you? They really missed the mark in remaking Dante especially with the attitude. Also even if the some of the fans were disrespectful Tameem should have just kept his mouth shut or tried to reason with them in a civilized manner. Anyways Tameem has always been a whiner 3 games in row. They have a reputation for making only average games with the exception of Heavenly Sword.
annamalik   764d ago | Spam
OmegaSlayer  +   764d ago
Tameem begged for the hate he received and then started to whine.
You reap what you deserve.
Root  +   765d ago
One little problem though Tameem...you bloody deserved all the hate you got. You consistently seeked out new ways to p*** off the DMC fanbase whether it was being so arrogant about your horrible direction you took the series, the ways you called the old fans, the way you criticized the old combat when yours is worse, not to mention calling the series creator and old Dantes design in general.

"Despite good critical reception"

Don't care what anyone says, I still believe most of the big sites which are thought of making difference, were paid off in some way whether it was by money, free goodies or future exclusive news on new products.

You don't say nothing for two years while we all voice our opinion on the game then the month before it launches just suddenly start to defend the game. If the game has inferior stuff compared to the last game then it shouldn't be getting good reviews...it's illogical. Lets not forget the reviews all seemed to be selling you the game rather then actually reviewing it and they all felt like they were saying the same things in the article like they had guidelines or a list of things to say
#2 (Edited 765d ago ) | Agree(20) | Disagree(8) | Report | Reply
HammadTheBeast  +   765d ago
A-holes sticking up for a-holes.

Phil Fish, in the wrong, defended by Cliff Blizeinski, now by this a-hole who told his fans to GTFO.

Next we'll be seeing Don Mattrick defending him.
jimmywolf  +   764d ago
reminds me of the saying

birds of a feather flock together
Hanso  +   764d ago
well said
dedicatedtogamers  +   765d ago
I'm starting to think this is exploding beyond the confines of the original situation caused by Marcus Beer. Game Trailers had a chance to apologize but all they did was write a piece about CliffyB's response and said "CliffyB is just seeking attention. He didn't make a good argument".

For years, game journalists (especially the US journalists) have become increasingly deluded and self-important to the point where people like Marcus Beer believe developers OWE THEM quotes whenever they ask for them or else you'll be pulled apart on our public show. TMZ-quality journalism.

And as developers continue to find ways to circumvent journalists and go directly to the fans (Kickstarter, various indie games and "grassroots" hits like Demon's Soul) the less important journalists become, and over the past few months, journalists (mostly in the US) have been repeatedly shooting themselves in the foot trying to defend Microsoft's actions, and now that the common gamer isn't running to them for advice anymor? Well, ya gotta get those clicks SOMEhow. If you can't get them by journalism, try fabricating some controversy. We get mad at game devs when they call gamers entitled. Why don't we give journalists the same hate? They called us entitled when gamers reacted negatively to the Xbox One DRM.
#3 (Edited 765d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
Mounce  +   764d ago
It's pretty much why I would side with Phil rather than the opposite side of this dilemma.

Phil Fish, yes, has personal issues, is an egotistical prick. However people are also warping together 'Personal Life' with 'Occupation dedication/success'. Like people did with Tom Cruise, he's a crazy batshit insane actor who's a Scientologist. Though he's still a good actor no matter who says he's an asshat because of his PERSONAL life.

Beer is a cunt because as a journalist or within a group of journalist, his occupation and personal life is TO BE, and SOUND LIKE an asshole and he takes it with pride so it easily seems. Phil Fish is just a ticking, emotional time-bomb of stress and anger-management. Beer? He provoked a time bomb because he likely saw that this would happen and he did it anyways.

How Beer acted, to TRY to piss someone off, to name call in any manner, to try to provoke, to try to troll, or get under his skin was completely unnecessary no matter how Phil Fish responded, and at that his 'death threat' infact being apparently a Futurama quote which was for him to probe how many would sidetrack the topic and throw majority-blame on Phil with Sensationalism. People like Phil, or Developers, Game creators, Movie actors, anyone like that who gets a public interview or say, goes on Oprah or The Ellen DeGeneres Show. Anyone who goes on those talks shows DOES NOT EXPECT TO GET PROBED. So, why is it 'ALRIGHT' for gaming talk shows to have asshats start trying to provoke negative attention? Honestly, why is it alright for so many of you to just shrug off at this vital detail? He came to talk about things, gaming, the industry or whatever and instead he gets a guy who caters around "things that he hates" (I hate his show anyways) and he tries nearly at the get-go to get under Phils' skin, and succeeds.

That and it seems like Beer and GT are completely being ignorant of the whole thing and not trying to take any inch of the blame.

I find it immature for people to Oppose Cliffy, or this DMC Douche from defending Phil. People are letting their emotions create their answer for them and not the rational side. "I hate them but never met them so I hope they fail and suffer" - is how it sounds like all of you people are talking. It's pathetic, unfair, and shows the worst of the consumers in the gaming industry because you all sound selfish and self-entitled HYPOCRITICALLY. -_-

theWB27  +   765d ago
I'm sure they can, but there is a big difference between them and Fish.

Fish created a game that people loved. He could have been walking on air if only he didn't come off as a whiny douche. He could have completely avoided everything that happened. Instead he chose to be out there doing and saying what transpired.

Ninja Theory got blasted for changing a classic franchise. A mistake that couldn't be reversed unless they canceled the game and started over.
Godmars290  +   764d ago
At the very least he has a thicker skin. Still made the mistake of arrogance and only doubled down. Let his attitude directly effect what he made.

Then again Fish had an original project.
Death  +   764d ago
I think the old answer is the best answer. Devs should stop talking to the fans. It almost never turns out good when armchair journalists are always out for clicks. All the devs are just easy targets.
jimmywolf  +   764d ago
or here a thought don't be a ass? not you personally, anyone in general.

the best answers is not keep everyone in the dark, say nothing, an hope for the best. the best answers is ignore insults, an find witty way too turn thing in your favor.

if you cannot, ignore them, walk away, please people stop trying justify, pricks an asshole in are society.

if you want thing change for the better it not going happen sympathizing with those that can't handle criticism in society

if your life really that bad, you cannot control your hate. then change your life, don't seek too destroy others.
Godmars290  +   764d ago
Makes me want to bring up the name Molyneux, the guy who gave interviews just to be heard while failing to deliver on most if not all promises made said during said interviews. Not once ever being seriously called on his BS and very much fostering the belief that developers were required to be accessible to the game media.
Death  +   764d ago
Hey, I agree with you Jimmy, but at the same time I don't care what people think about me. Mr. Fish isn't like us. Obviously. He is letting the public consume him which isn't healthy. Cliff by the way said the same basic thing you did, but in his typical @ssH:)le way. If you haven't read his reply, give it a read. He calls it as he sees it with his brain mouth filter kicked into overdrive.

If I could pick 2 people to kick a few back with, I would pick Peter Moore for his insight into the industry. Last I talked to him I was blown away by how genuine and down to earth he is. The second would be Cliff. The journalist hinting that his reply was for exposure is absurd. Cliff walked away on top of his game to take a break. He doesn't need exposure, he needs his time with his family. Cliff's over the top persona that people see is pretty much him with less inhibitions. He's actually a lot quieter in person and respectful for lack of a better word. Drinking with him would be boring as hell or the most fun since the stories he has have to be funny as hell all while proving atleast a little bit informative as to how things really work on the other side of the controller.
LosAngelesActor   764d ago | Spam
MikeyDucati1  +   764d ago
This is all most unfortunate. The problem here is that journalists continually look for ways to fuel this console war. They are looking for the next big article that generates hits. Namely, anything associated with Xbox One.

We all know Sony has put on a developer friendly campaign since the introduction of PS4. Now you have MS saying that each Xbox One can be a dev kit and such-now you got journalists who want to hear what devs got to say...especially ones that voiced their negative opinions on how the process works over there in MS world. Namely Fish and Blow.

When that is not provided, this is how you should respond? It's just poor taste again that is showing how self centered the gaming world can be.
Death  +   764d ago
I really miss printed journalism with people actually paid to be journalists. What we have today really sucks.
worldwidegaming  +   764d ago
Half ass journalism, it hurts to sift through all of this stuff.
Why not have a debate on how flat the earth is,lmao. Its that bad!
Vigor  +   764d ago
Emphasize ? lol!
DmC had bigger problem than just looks, NT never liked the franchise( and its fans) to begin with, the game was broken down to its core mechanics( broken style meter, 2 dodge buttons, no lock on for more versatile combat and etc...) Dialogue is subpar at best, Story is a fanfic taken too far, gimped to 30fps for an action franchise known for its fast paced combat these are just off the top of my head.

"DmC failed to be a big blockbuster for Capcom, though they did report it had “solid sales.”

It sold well below DMC4 and that was considered a failure by capcom despite the fact that DMC4 was an incomplete game to begin with.
#8 (Edited 764d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
Hanso  +   764d ago
i cant understand why 4 people disagree with you
you speak only the truth every DMC fan knows this.
LoveSpuds  +   764d ago
Game played really well for me, no dying because of random camera changes for one.

Just use one dodge button if you are hung up on that (weird thing to be bothered by though?).

Style meter might have been a little lenient I guess, dialog was above what I would call average, there are many many games out there with worse voice work that DMC.

If you are really arguing that the story in early DMC was some sort of epic, moving and deep yarn then I think I played a different set of games to you.

Pretty sure the original games were sub 60fps too???

Just my opinion of course :)
Baka-akaB  +   764d ago
Not going to bother with the rest , it's your opinion and all , but no the previous devil may cry titles were 60 fps .
LoveSpuds  +   764d ago
I enjoyed the DMC back in the day, but replayed them recently and they had not aged well at all.

Whether people like it or not developers need to update games and their mechanics, its the exact reason that Japanese devs are considered to have lost ground on Western developers.

I gave the DMC reboot a fair chance and have to say I had an absolute blast with it.

It cracks me up that there are really DMC 'purists' out there complaining about the story. The stories in these games was typical early period (in gaming terms) drivel, its not like it was penned by Shakespeare.

Ultimately the game needed updating, there was no point in getting hooked up on the frankly daft story and Ninja Theory were never given a fair crack.

As prequel's go I thought it was damn decent and the mechanics made for ridiculous combo's and juggles that made you feel like a badass.
elda  +   764d ago
@LoveSpuds...I completely agree with you,I loved playing all the DMC games even 2 I just thought it was short but when I got to 4 I thought it was a little boring,when they announced DmC I was hyped...while waiting for the release I started playing the old HD versions which are classsics but I didn't get into them like when I first played them on my PS2,when I finally played DmC I had a ball with the game imo it needed that fresh coat of paint,I never understood the hate & I don't reallly care because for me it was 60 usd well spent.
Baka-akaB  +   764d ago
There are hardly purist claimed the story was better . It probably exists , but nowhere at the amount you hint . In fact most just wanted the continuation of a story they already invested into , however cheesy it was

What made "purist" cracks up , is how they were fed up stories about how NT coming in was a blessing , based on their past storyline and hype about storytelling ... only to deliver a title that is in no way better gameplay wise (even by its fan's own admission usually ) but as a trade off , isnt even the epic story driven masterpiece so hinted at .

DmC was "supposed" to take a game only know for its style and gameplay , into a deeper and rich universe and story . it hardly did , and lost some gameplay in the process

Compared to stuff like Enslaved or Heavenly sword , it's their weakest offering story and presentation wise imo .

Where was the gain then ? But i should refrain further , we aint obviously going to convince each other , and will beat a figuratively and literally dead horse
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LoveSpuds  +   764d ago
Hey Baka, its all about opinions squire and I completely respect your opinion.

For me, although it didn't continue the story it did serve as a prequel so I felt it did add to the DMC story overall.

As for the gameplay I think it held up very well and I think I probably enjoyed it more that DMC4, a game where the camera angles were often a pain, some of the navigation of the levels confusing and some of the puzzles a little obtuse.

I have never really considered how DMC stacks up against Ninja Theory's other titles but I think I would likely agree it has the weakest story but for me probably the best gameplay.

Again, nice to talk about it and I don't for one minute think my opinion is more or less valid than yours squire.
VileAndVicious  +   764d ago

Agreed, while DMC may not have been perfect it was damn good IMO. Sure it wasnt without its flaws (none of the Devil may Cry games are and they could just as easily be picked apart as well) but to say things like "Its the worst game ever!", "The story is the absolute crap" or "Its the worst in the series!" smh well then you obviously havnt played DMC2.
Sevir  +   764d ago
The people who make games for this industry and it's fans have got some real thick skin... Personally I just don't think it's right for fans to bash and treat the people that work on our favorite pass time...

The death threats, insult senseless ire...

Social media has turned a vocal minority into a whirling typhoon of vitriolic whining children who take for granted the work that goes into seeing these projects...

Treyarch, infinityward, Crystal Dynamic, Ninja Theory, Epic/Cliffy B. Insomniac, Kojima... And numerous more including Fez Creator, it's just a shame really, the quality of each game varies but to insult disregard, and girl death threats to these people with families, it's immature, selfish and abusive...

Considering, I've got just a year remaining before finishing my Master's in Game Design, I'm simply gonna have to do like Tameem says, as arrogant as he may be, the truth simply is, you have to Enjoy the Job you do, continue to make art for those who appreciate it and focus on your friends and family, tune out the circus, brash journalist and the vitriolic gamers who've lost touch with reality...

I love this industry, but it's time gamers and Journalists in this industry show some respect and maturity. This industry has one far, lets do our part in sustaining it. The abuse to developers is just wrong.
elda  +   764d ago
@Sevir....Preach....Agreed.... ..it's just a videogame.
VileAndVicious  +   764d ago
Well spoken sir.
There should be a mutual respect its hard to argue against that point.
andshesays  +   764d ago
The game was cool, all the characters looked stylish and I dont see what the problem is?
Baka-akaB  +   764d ago
If i were them i just wouldnt chime in . The wrath on Fish was unprovoked in way , as you can hardly fault his games so far . It's his eprsonalit people might have issues with .

The DmC guys had the support of the whole press and still do with them still doing damage control over a big flop . And they also had unfortunate words that irked fans of a franchise .

Those two situation feel vastly unrelated . Fish most likely didnt quit over insane fans output , everyone get them in any industy . it was the harassement from the media that fed him up .
With Fish journalist were totally without respect and rabid , with NT they were over indulging . I dont care how execrable Fish might be , he didnt deserve the attack from Beer .
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Shad0wRunner  +   764d ago
Ninja Theory has no room to talk.

They got hate cuz they screwed over DMC and their fans. We were even telling them WAY before the game was even finished, that we did not want a new redesigned Dante or DMC. They had plenty of feedback from their fans and customers...and they went and did their own shit anyway. So yeah, they had it coming and they got what they deserved.

Developers need to get one thing straight, right now. We make or break THEM, not the other way around. You dont wanna listen to your fans, thats fine...we just wont buy your shit. You work for US. Your money, profits and paychecks come from US - never forget that! Lately, we have too many developers out there who dont LISTEN to their fanbase and they dont care how we feel or want to see in a game. It's like they say "we hear you...but were gonna move forward with OUR vision for this game, regardless. Trust us, you'll like it." Capcom is another dev that does this. Idk how many times we beat it into their heads what we wanna see from a Resident Evil game...and everytime they release a new title, its evident that NONE of our feedback was taken seriously or even into consideration.

Then they wanna whine when they get critical responses. Typical. I know we all have different preferences and ideas on what we want to see in our games, and the devs cant make everyone happy 100% of the time...but theyre not even trying!

Phish is a dev that just "doesnt get it" and he seems to have forgotten who he REALLY works for. The paying customer. So he gets to learn the hard way.
#13 (Edited 764d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
mep69  +   764d ago
Playing DMC currently, bought in the steam sale. All I've got to say is; I'm loving every minuet :)
LordMe  +   764d ago
Except you guys called the fans stupid, you butchered the franchise put yourself in the game and said the Japanese games are uncool and Dante was lame.

Fish just spazzed.

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