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Submitted by N2NOther 931d ago | opinion piece

Game developers want a cut of the used game pie? I don’t think so - Gamer Horizon

After Xbox One’s failed attempt to try and stymie used game sales by funneling them through “participating retailers” and thus killing off private sales, loaning and game rentals, developers like former Epic superstar Cliffy B and God of War creator David Jaffe took to Twitter to voice their disdain for used sales and more specifically, GameStop. Again, they were of the opinion that each used sale is money being taken from their pockets and they should get a cut of the used game sales. PS4 developer Ready at Dawn, which has the upcoming The Order: 1866 currently gestating, recently voiced their dissatisfaction with GameStop’s business model of pushing used games over new. Now, this might prove controversial, but it’s a stance I firmly believe in so brace yourselves - Game developers and publishers are not entitled to a single dime after the initial sale. Not one red cent. And the fact that they think they’re entitled to any of it is , quite frankly, ludicrous. (David Jaffe, PS4, The Order: 1886, Xbox 360, Xbox One)

The_Infected  +   932d ago
Yea hand it all to Gamestop. They give you $25 for a used game then charge $55 where new it only cost $60. It's a rip off. Like I said in a previous article two people buy one game. One person buys it new and the other buys it after its traded in. So one person pays the Developer who made the game and the other pays Gamestop. The Developer sold one game to two people for the price of one. It's just a broken system.
CalvinKlein  +   932d ago
I agree with this article and buy only new games
if devs dont like it they can go all digital, and we know they wont be competitive price wise with even new physical copies because they are just as greedy, maybe more so then gamestop.

If tehy want money from used sales then they can offer me some credit toward their new game for my old crap that will mostly collect dust, on my shelf or gamestop's. They dont want to be in the business, they dont deserve money from it.

gamestop has to spend alot of money to sell those used games, devs want a cut of used without doing anything.
lashes2ashes  +   932d ago
He do game stop have to spend a lot of cash to sell used games? They get a huge return on selling used games. Use you're brain they buy it for say twenty dollars and sell if for forty dollars and don't have to share any of the cash with the devs,publishers game console manufactures ect. I agree they should have a trade in program like the car agency's have but for things to move that way places like GameStop need to die.
Brasi1989  +   931d ago
People do bash Gamestop quite a bit but i wonder how many actually realize how risky the proposition of buying a $60 game at $25 actually is with the only intent to resell. Take Duke Nukem for example. Say you, went out and bought the game day 1 and spend $60. The game totally bombs so you go and trade it in for $25. Gamestop takes it and puts it with the rest of the used copies on sale for $55. Say 2 months down the road they sell 25% of those copies they bought for $25 for $55. Price drop happens because word gets around game sucks. $55 drops to $35, then drops to $25 then to $15 then to $5 While they do make a significant amount of profit from initial sales most of their used games >$10 are either straight up profit or trying to recoup on there losses.
CalvinKlein  +   931d ago
lashes you need to "use your brain." Everyone acts like they sell every used game they ever buy right away for 55$ and that is not true at all.

Trading a used game is just like trading in a car. Take it to the dealership and they give you credit toward a new or used car. They also try to sell your old car for more money then tehy gave you. When they sell your old honda, honda does not get a cut because honda did not buy it back from you(just like devs/pubs are nto buying back used games, not even their own). Same thing as gamestop.

Id devs and publishers want to make money off used games then they need to put up the money to buy them from us and deal with the risk of not selling them at all. but they are not in the business so they dont deserve jack Sh@t.
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N2NOther  +   932d ago
Thanks for reading! It's not a broken system. It's capitalism. Like I said in my article, you don't have to use Gamestop. I used eBay. Still the same concept that you've put forth. They should stop my used sale? They should get some of the money? That's ridiculous.

@lashes2ashes -

Did you read the article. I know for a fact that GameStop pays 10% less that MSRP for every new game you can buy in their store. There make almost nothing on new games and all of that money has already gone to the developer. GameStop buys used games low and sells high because it's profitable.
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factory  +   931d ago
I used to own an independent video game store for a decade. The markup on new games ranges from 25 to 18 percent. EA of course, always charged the most. Those prices are before shipping and credit card fees would be factored in. I was also paying a larger distributor who had to make 1.50 to 2 dollars on the game. In most cases , I was too small to go direct.
iceman06  +   931d ago
I fully agree with your assertions in this article. How is it a consumer problem when the deal (revenue split) is made BEFORE we even get to see the game? How is it my problem that capitalism somehow works for a company when they get their money from me...yet DOESN'T when it is not enough to recoup their losses? Lastly, where was all of this noise last generation? I really don't remember developers trying to put GameStop out of business during the PS2 days when money was flowing all over the place (tech boom 90's). I get it. The recession has put a pinch on the big corporations and they can't see any other way to get into the "black" other than to do what is the accepted norm in business, pass that on to the consumer.
avengers1978  +   931d ago
It's not just GameStop though, everyone seems to think its just GameStop, but individuals sell there games to bestbuy, replay, buy backs, video game underground, to there friends, or on eBay. Lots of used games selling going on, hell even pawn shops sell used games
levian  +   931d ago
Either used games need to give a royalty to the developers, or games WILL go 100% digital DRM. I don't agree with the DRM method, but the developers need as much return as they can get after massive development costs for AAA games.

If things keep going this route, AAA games will die and all we'll be left with is indie games on the OUYA
iceman06  +   931d ago
Maybe...just maybe we could ask them to get better contracts from the greedy publishers. OR, how about manage those bloated AAA budgets so that a great game doesn't have to sell 10 millions copies to turn a profit. Used games is just a target because it is the "easiest" to go after. We, as consumers, will be more likely to hand over control before the publishers and big corporations.
3-4-5  +   931d ago
* When I resell my car, does Ford/GM get a cut of the sales ?

* When you sell your home, does the original builder from 10 year ago get a cut ?


So why do dev's get a cut of a game they already got a cut of ?

Stop making crappy watered down , copy off of the other guy, 8 hours to beat, frustratingly boring, bug filled, holo and empty games with no substance.
N2NOther  +   931d ago
To be fair, car manufacturers purchase used cars to see on their lots and they also manufacture parts and perform repairs to offset costs. Devs have online passes and DLC.
3-4-5  +   930d ago
True, but to better offset their costs, how about they don't just copy another dev's game.

I feel like they spend weeks brainstorming completely horrible ideas and then eventually, because of time constraints, just go with the best option which may or may not even be a good option to begin with.
rainslacker  +   931d ago
And I ask you as I've asked so many others. What does GameStop's trade in price have to do with developers getting money off a used game sold?

What I don't get is that what MS tried to do with used games effectively cut out a person's right to sell their game privately. Are you OK with that? GameStop is in itself a private entity. They're an option. So I ask, why are they required to live by a different set of rules? Are you OK with giving up your right to sell or trade a game privately just to punish GameStop? I haven't seen people clamoring to send off some money to a game publisher whenever they buy or sell a used game privately, why should GameStop(or similar stores) have to?

Don't get me wrong, I understand your logic. It's just not the way the free market works. It's an idiotic idea on the part of game developers/publishers to believe that they are entitled to anything after the first sale of a game. They're trying to change the rules to their own benefit. Too many people are saying "Hell yeah" because they are so blinded by hate of GameStop. It's a complete red herring that the devs/pubs play into to win people over to their cause.
Bigpappy  +   932d ago
'The_Infected' has a strong argument from the developers perspective. But I have to side with 'CalvinKlein' on this one.

If publisher want a piece of the use game market, just offer gamers a better deal for their used games.

But 'CalvinKlein' is still missing one key factor that almost everyone seems to ignore: What about USED DIGITAL games? You said they could go digital to screw PS, which is true, but they also screw the gamers. We almost had M$ offering a policy for Digital ownership, but people who want to stay with physical disk won that round for now. I really hope M$ have 2 separate policies for digital and physical so they could offer some type of freedom for people who are ready to move to Digital over physical.
N8  +   931d ago
It wouldn't be a problem if other companies offered something better. Either way your handing your money to a company that just wants to make money.
Cmk0121  +   931d ago
if they want a slice of the pie they need to mimic steam , come up with digital rewards, an ecosystem for trading digital games or what have you. Dont idly sit by that games shouldnt be able to be traded and they want more money. if i buy a shirt from whomever do thye get a portion of it if i resell to thrift shop,yard sale etc. No so they need to do something positive or get over it, gamestop robs us and they cant compete with that???
Majin-vegeta  +   931d ago
This is not spam mods and excuse the caps rage.

caseh  +   931d ago
No other form of media or entertainment expects a cut from 2nd hand sales except for software developers, specifically gaming.

I appreciate the work that devs do but for me personally, no argument they put forward will ever sway me that pre-owned sales shouldn't be viable. Accept it for what it is or **** off, please.
PrivateLeroy  +   931d ago
Don't the developers have DLC to help them with this issue? I mean really?
Jagsrock  +   931d ago
If Devs would instead spend time making games people want to pre-order and buy day one. If they would make games people will have a tough time letting go of they wouldn't have to worry about used game sales. Maybe if they stopped nickel and diming us with DLC announced before the game is even out consumers would be more willing to pay full price.
CalvinKlein  +   931d ago
fact is, devs/pubs use the used game industry and especially gamestop as a scapegoat when their games dont sell. I bet for 95% of those games would sell the same even without used games(maybe even less without all the credit GS gives for games that DO NOT SELL INSTANTLY). They just need to admit that their games are not as good as they thought, they spend to much money on development/adds and the sun dont shine out of their @ss like they beleive to be true.

They harp on how gamestop sell used versions, but I never hear them mention how GS gives tons of credit that goes toward more games/consoles/accessories. Gamestop injects as much money into the games industry as tehy take probably. BUt devs want to focus on only the negatives and pretend like their games deserved to sell sooo much more.

It seems to not be the small developers or publishers that complain very often either, mostly makers of big games that are chasing COD like numbers. When they dont get those numbers they blame used games and indirectly blame us gamers. I blame them as their games are often watered down, tacked on multiplayer and often their games dont stay true to their own identities, MAss effect series is perfect example. ME3 was easily the worst because they were chasing sales. same with deadspace 3.

Seems the game they wish they could be, COD, doesnt have any problems selling millions and thats with no online pass and a big used game industry(COD is probably the game that sell the most used copies when you think about it). The sooner devs/publishers stop expecting to sell cod numbers, the sooner tehy can blame themselvs for "bad" sales and not the used game industry.

devs are good at tricking naive gamers into believing its our fault their game doesnt sell as much as they planned on, but killing gamestop would hurt them im almost guaranteed. If little jimmy cant trade in last years COD and some of his old sequels for store credit, how can he buy the new COD or the uninspired watered down sequel number 3? He wont. People who buy used wont just buy all new games suddenly, they just wont buy the game or its DLC or online pass.

MS didnt try and get rid of used games, they tried to control it. ONly who they wanted could sell used games and that damn well would include GS, but you or I couldnt sell our games. Same with online pass, all that did was make devs get a cut they dont deserve and you and I get less money for our games.

Anyone against the used game industry is against the consumer. WHy would you want greedy publishers, devs and console makers to have all the power. If you dont understand that would end in 80$ new games(games are already 120$ with season passes and tons of DLC as it is), digital games that cost more than physical copies and take too long to drop in price.

I buy all my games new, seldom trade to GS, usually sell them on amazon. Fact is after beating most these games they are not worth another playthrough or to keep. without being able to sell these games I just wouldnt buy as many. This is especially true of younger gamers who trade alot in to gamestop, they need the credit to buy the new games or else they dont get the new games or used.

I dont see ND, bungie, or IW complaining about used game sales because they create games taht people want to keep. Other devs cant seem to do that so they blame the used game industry, its their own fault and their problem. NOt ours or gamestop, or amazon, or gamefly etc.
rainslacker  +   931d ago
The only valid argument I've seen from the devs who go on about this is from the ready at dawn guy the other day. He said while he was at GS, they tried to push the used copy of a game over the new one. To me, I can understand why he, as a developer, would be upset about that, and I personally think that's wrong due to me believing devs should get a first sale over a used sale if it's available...but different strokes for different folks.

OTOH, it's only natural for GS to want to sell the product that they receive the most return on. It's a perfectly understandable principle of business. Sometimes the sales clerks are a bit too insistent, but that to me screams of personal ineptitude and poor training on the individual level. Let's face it, we could all regale in stories of bad experiences at GS, even if we like to shop there.

So, my theory is, if devs want to curtail the ease with which GS provides people who use their trade in service, it would be better to address the issue at it's source. That source is by and large the mark-up that GameStop receives for a new game. It's a pittance ranging from $2-12(reports vary). Given the cost to run a retail establishment, that just isn't enough to stay in business. If publishers were willing to give a more reasonable mark-up on the products...say 30-50%....then GS would have more incentive to promote new games over used. The trade in costs would go down, less people would use them, and more new games would get sold.

Now, for all of the above we have to disregard the fact that people use their trade ins to purchase new games, and all that other jazz, but I feel my argument is sound otherwise.

Your comment is Well Said BTW.
ZBlacktt  +   931d ago
This is a easy fix, both MS and Sony come out with their own stores. Where gamers can go and trade in their used games. Or buy new ones.... There is NO need for a Gamestop. The are the middle man and they wait for MS and Sony themselves to put out new content. Gamestop rips off gamers for a fair market price. It's been LONG known about. So until MS and Sony come out with their own stores. There is no fix to this. Give the gamers somewhere else to go.
iceman06  +   931d ago
Along with MS and Sony, there needs to be another option to offer competition for each company. Otherwise, it will be a completely closed and controlled ecosystem. This meaning that prices can be controlled and manipulated to the extreme that it doesn't become a good deal at all. Competition is what made services like Steam great. They offer those wonderful sales BECAUSE of competition. Without it, you just get the monopolization of used games on each console and just hope that they are benevolent enough to drop a price every now and then.
rainslacker  +   931d ago
"Gamestop rips off gamers for a fair market price. It's been LONG known about"

And yet their trade in business is huge. So obviously not everyone finds it to be that bad.

I personally think their trade in policies are ludicrous...which is why I don't use them for that. I also rarely buy used games, and prefer new any day, so overall I have no problem with GameStop's business model. Some associates that work there I take issue with though.

However, your argument does bring about another point. If devs want a piece of the 2nd hand pie, I believe they are the ones that should take the risk of purchasing and reselling those games in some manner. It's not like GameStop buying used games is risk free. I believe one report from them stated that 10% of all their trade ins are thrown in the dumpster, because they are unsellable. Now imagine how much stock they just have sitting on shelves or warehouses that may or may not get sold. Think how they just recently stopped buying PS2 games and imagine how many of those will never sell. Sure the new popular titles sell without issue. That's why you see all these ads now for high trade in values. But that just isn't the case with at least 90% of the stock they get in. Have you ever seen how many copies of Madden 2010 they just have sitting on the shelf at any given time?
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ZBlacktt  +   931d ago
That's because again, where else can gamers go, Best Buy? WalMart? Those are not as well known about like GameStop. Again, my point is a fact and well know about. Again even you know this....

Gamestop makes billions. Again, Sony and MS could move right in on this if they really wanted to take out the middle man. Both have Sony and MS stores already out there for the electronics products and software.
N2NOther  +   930d ago
This is a great idea in theory but the problem is those stores create overhead and cost to fix such a small problem. It's using a finger in a dike.
ZBlacktt  +   930d ago
Look up Gamestops revenue. They are valued in the billions. Either MS or Sony do something. Or just shut up about it and move on.

During fiscal 2012, GameStop generated $632.4 million in operating cash flow and spent $151.2 million in capital expenditures and other investments generating free cash flow of $481.2 million.
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N2NOther  +   930d ago
I don't disagree with you, but I honestly think it's less about the platform holders than it is about the pubs and devs. ESPECIALLY the devs. They are the one's that cry the loudest.
unknownbystander  +   931d ago
Worried about used games? Make better games with great replay value. Don't make a game repetitive like shooters. Make an actual game that is unique and never though out before. Seriously, the reason why most games are traded off are because of it's over use of genre, no replay value, lack of effort, and lack of creativity. So many shooters in the market today that it loses its value.
slugg  +   928d ago
Devs will have the option on Xbox One and Playstation 4 to sell digital copies as well as physical game releases. They get all of the money for digital, so here is what they should do: Sell digital copies earlier, at a slightly cheaper price. They can also offer DLC a week earlier to the people who digitally downloaded the game. There are lots of things Developers and Publishers could do to encourge people to buy a digital copy, which can't be resold, and therefore fix the problem themselves.

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