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Submitted by cyguration 407d ago | news

If Valve's Steam Policies Get Challenged In Court Gamers Could Resale Their Games, Says VZBV

Gaming Blend "According to the Verbraucherzentrale Bundesverband e.V., representative Eva Hoffschulte, speaking on behalf of the Federation of German Consumer Organisations and executive director Gerd Billen, the consumer rights advocacy group is trying to pursue the matter in court and they believe that things will get underway later this year." (Industry, PC, Steam)

Alternative Sources
DigitalAnalog  +   407d ago
There's a double-side to this
If we are allowed to "resale" our game then the value of DD is changed significantly. As such, Steam sales would be the first to go as it is the main reason why so many feel comfortable purchasing a non-tradable copy.
NioRide  +   407d ago
Exactly, used games come up we actually lose out more so then we do win.

When I'm paying 75% off of a title, And picking up games for 5$ vs 30+ I hope to never see steam get marked for used.
darkride66  +   407d ago
I have no idea why people are just assuming sales would go. We have a used game market with physical software. Do games never go on sale as a result? Of course not.

The fact of the matter is the EU has ruled already on this matter last year. Companies can't block the transfer of online, digital content from one user to another. Those licenses as of last year are transferable.

It'll take the industry time to adapt, but if they don't facilitate the transfer of licenses from one user to another themselves, someone else will come along and figure out a way and they'll be left out. Best to get in front of this legislation and take control of license transfer themselves. The court's have already ruled on the matter in the EU. Now why that means nothing would ever go on sale is beyond me.
DigitalAnalog  +   407d ago
The thing is with DD is how would Steam itself would compete with scalpers. This isn't like a "used" sale where clearly the physical product is being used. Here the DD code is EXACTLY the same.

E.G. XX game gets 9.99 Scalper compete's with a lower price. How is steam going to gain profit from that?
CRAIG667  +   407d ago
Dude you REALLY haven't though that through...
jimmywolf  +   407d ago
@DigitalAnalog

steam would not have too compete, it earned off the selling the game, then it earn again by charging a seller fee.

similar too how cards work, now i would not be surprised, if cards are a beta prototype for used games.

if you go to the market in steam, to buy a card. it show vales cut %5 an developers cut %10
cyguration  +   407d ago
@DigitalAnalog

Jimmywolf is right. The trading cards is pretty much the same as selling games and they sell for pretty cheap with Valve getting a cut.

If anything, trades would facilitate Valve to make even more money given that people would only be able to sell games after they buy them and then Valve would get a cut per every priced trade.
badz149  +   407d ago
what I don't understand is why people are bringing physical item rights into its digital counterpart? why would suddenly people think that it's necessary for them to be able to resell digital products?

trading in physical copies are not just the content itself but the condition of the disc itself too. try having a big scratch on your disc and see if you can sell it anywhere. you can't because the scratch devalued the item even if the game runs fine! the ability to resell depends on the disc first and the rest, second!

with digital media, how will reselling work? games are installed into your HDD!

1. take away your game key? pfft...it's not like there aren't enough cracks available for free out there. so you get some of your money back and still retain the game, very smart!

2. send a virus to corrupt the install data? yeah...that will go down just great! /s

3. take away your HDD? how? using FBI?

DRM will be a headache if reselling of digital contents is allowed. why chose to go digital if you've known that there will be no reselling?? oohh...I know, those sales are crazy, right? so...you gain some, it's just natural you'll be losing some too! plus, how much do you want back for games you bought for $5? a dollar?
Conzul  +   407d ago
just because you don't know how it can be done, doesn't mean it can't be done.

Steam will adapt, and everyone will be praising its aptitude once again.
Gigaguy777  +   407d ago
Easy, since it's through Steam, it will delete all of that game's content from your Hard Drive, remove the game from your library, and remove anything else that would allow you to get the game back without buying it again.
NioRide  +   407d ago
Except people use fake codes on steam, and not just every now and again.

Dirt 3 had a massive wave of some 50k fake keygened keys hit the market.
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darkride66  +   407d ago
"Why would suddenly people think that it's necessary for them to be able to resell digital products?"

That's the law now, according to the EU. Software or digital licenses are allowed to be resold now. Prior to this it was usually worked into the End User's Agreement that when you purchased a license to a piece of software, it was non-transferable. The EU courts have ruled on this now and said "not so fast".

So while they didn't go so far as to mandate that a company must setup the means with which to transfer licenses, they can't block the transfer of licenses from one individual to another like they were trying to do with their agreements.

Stricter DRM is the only way I can see them making this possible to comply with the court ruling. They don't expect the industry to turn on a dime and commit to this overnight, but unless this ruling is overturned, what choice does the industry have?

I have no doubt Sony and Microsoft will also at some point unveil a system for transferring licenses for digital media. Microsoft already said they had a system lined up for trading games online. No doubt this was in part to take away from used game sales and pocket that money themselves, part to keep them in compliance with the laws in Europe. Of course, we know they had to back away from their all encompassing DRM plans, but there's no reason they can't still do an online market for digital only games.

I have no idea what Sony's going to do to become compliant with these recent legal changes. Or Nintendo for that matter. Or if they'll just encompass the EU or if they'll roll out whatever their new marketplace will be worldwide.
3-4-5  +   407d ago
It's not a bad idea totally. We could sell off some of those games we bought that we may never play or that ended up not being what we thought they were, or as good as we hoped.

To keep people from profiting all you would have to do is make it so you can only sell your game for 85% of what you originally paid for it.
Fireseed  +   407d ago
And we haven't yet because they approach DRM in a responsible and consumer friendly way.
CRAIG667  +   407d ago
People HATED Steam when it first arrived,it was the DEVIL, just as much as people hated xbox one's initial DRM framework, but people have come round because the benefits are so great, not to mention the convenience...

I for one couldn't care less about selling my steam games anyway, I like to have my games collection available just in-case.
khan_saab  +   407d ago
being able to re sell your steam items is a good thing people. it goes into the core belief that once you buy something, you own it.some of you may not like it because you speculate that things are going to cost more. I ask, is the possibility of losing deals ( which i believe won't happen) worth denying someone their right to as they wish with their property? if we can gain the legal ability to do as we want with our online content then i believe it is a matter of time before we see the end of DRM as they go hand in hand.
NioRide  +   407d ago
While true the problem is, people could buy a game for a fraction of the price on a steam sale, then turn around and sell the game at retail a few days later.

In the end, steam probably would remove the sales all together.

So we will end up losing far more than gaining.
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sourav93  +   407d ago
Maybe they could make the resell conditions in such a way that you will receive half of what you paid for it. Perhaps that could work. Though tbh, I'm completely happy with the way steam works now, but I won't say no to the idea of being able to resell my games. Of course, if they remove features/deals just like what MS did with the DRM,then I'd rather things stay the same.
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jimmywolf  +   407d ago
@NioRide
simple supply an demand, what your saying can be done now, with little effort. buy said game on sell as a gift, an wait too sell it ....

@sourav93
free market is fine, their wont be one seller. just like with the cards, everyone wanting too sell, will drive down the price. also they would be a % cost, that goes too vale an the developers, so everyone profits.
NioRide  +   407d ago
Yes it can be done now, But this is entirely different.

This is activating a game, playing it and then turning around and selling it to someone.

This will pretty much make steam sales vanish all together.
s45gr32  +   407d ago
Is it not possible to have both (able to resell say steam games, trade, and buy used plus keep the deals), it's our legal right to resell and trade say products along with buying used products.
NioRide  +   407d ago
Its not our legal right to get sales though.

Adding in used games means we will no longer have the option to get deals.

Also selling illegal keys, stolen keys, and key generated keys will be a huge problem.

And in truth, we own nothing, if you read your manuals that come with games and user agreements, we pay for a right to use the product. We actually don't own anything.
awi5951  +   407d ago
Im sorry games dont get special protection movies,music,cars have to do the same thing. Just make a better product people want to keep and stop making crap games.
WeAreLegion  +   407d ago
No. They show us respect. We need to show them respect.
FlyingFoxy  +   407d ago
Prices of good games will go up, prices of shit games will fall like a rock because everyone won't buy or will sell them.

But.. i like the thought of being able to sell games, even if for half the retail price, i want to get rid of dead island and it's sitting in my steam games.. ugh that game's not a patch on l4d 1/2 or Killing Floor.
#5 (Edited 407d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
spartanlemur  +   407d ago
The relative price of MMO's will go up, as they are not for resale. Also, games like Bioshock which are awesome but not very replayable will be heavily resold, and so will become unprofitable to release on PC. I suppose replayable single-player games like Skyrim will be less affected, but there are very good shorter games which will suffer.

This will help F2P, MMO's and other types of online multiplayer games, but is going to cripple single-player games out of existence.

This is sad for single-player lovers like myself but I suppose good news for those more interested in MP experiences. I just hope it doesn't rear its ugly head in the UK.
#5.1 (Edited 407d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Somebody  +   407d ago
Europe seems so fond suing tech companies.
s45gr32  +   407d ago
Oh shit, I am torn on this reminds me of how much I love Walmart (yes I keep hearing is a shit company to be employed for) and never went to the strikes against it. Now I know about the sale doctrine which grants consumers the legal right to buy used products, resell them and trade them. On the other hand there is Steam with some sweet sweet extremely sweet deals (strike suit zero for $2.99 released last month, tomb raider $12.50 released on March 2013), I create my own pool of games via green light, stable working mods are one click away through steamworks. Don't forget early release which is just kickstarter on Steam. Did I mention the sweet deals. Valve makes great games like Portal franchise and if it wasn't for Steam both Japanese/third party game developers would of have kept away from PC gaming.
ninjagoat  +   407d ago
I would be for swapping games on steam with friends not selling. I like the current system as it is. Would hate to lose out on sales aswell.
spartanlemur  +   407d ago
If we become able to resell our steam games then kiss sales goodbye. The only reason games are able to go so cheap is that there are few digital suppliers and resale is difficult with PC games anyway.
Once people start flooding the market with games for sale, prices will go right down to around 40p/70c and so Valve will have no choice but to raise prices in future.
No joke this could literally kill steam, by driving its prices up to origin level.

The ruling is utterly stupid anywyay. Steam games don't depreciate in value with use (though the price decreases with time, actual use is not a factor) nor do they retain their value to the consumer, unlike a bike. A bike is always useful, even after many uses, while a game once played through is generally considered "finished" to you.

Not to mention that devs will make less money and companies will again decrease their interest in PC game creation. This is so bad for consumers.
iistuii  +   407d ago
This would kill the great steam sales. If you don't like the DRM side, go buy a console.
kevnb  +   407d ago
then you deal with even worse DRM. Things are so strict on console that you cant even decide what settings you want to run... maybe I want more than 20 fps in my game at the expense of some eye candy. Maybe I want to play my games on the system I want, not some cheaply built box made by one manufacturer.
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s45gr32  +   407d ago
I agree is worse with consoles like you forgot to mention no free online gaming no more. Can't play old school games unless you hook up your old console or the fact you are dealing with waiting for game developers to fix your game, there is no option for gamers to fix their games.
Campy da Camper  +   407d ago
Steam offers a platform to use for new games you purchase from them. They could do something like not allow a game that was not sold by them to be used on your steam account. Example. I buy battlefield and download it. I then use the steam community to play online. I decide one day to sell the game. Steam says fine and I sell it to you. When you download it you can play it just fine but steam does not recognize the key anymore so you have no forum to play the game on. Its basically single player only for you.
SlapHappyJesus  +   407d ago
I'll take deep sales over the ability for reselling my digital games.
It's better for consumers and publishers/developers.
jimmywolf  +   407d ago
agree 100% with this, if it not broke, why fix it. the lure of $$$ is nice, in theory.

but in practice you wont be profiting to the point you can buy/sell every game, too play them as they come out.
Einhert  +   407d ago
nah I will keep my steam sales thanks

Far better than getting some pittance trade in value for a game.
kevnb  +   407d ago
used games need to go away, games don't wear out over time. Most people are too short sighted to understand it though.
#13 (Edited 407d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
madpuppy  +   407d ago
What the hell, IT'S "RESELL" NOT "RESALE"!!!! Unless your not a native English speaker there is no excuse. this is almost as bad as the people that pronounce height heith like Sylvester cat from Warner bros. cartoons.
cyguration  +   407d ago
From the dictionary:
Resale: the act of selling again usually to a new party. 2. a : a secondhand sale. b : an additional sale to the same buyer.
madpuppy  +   407d ago
sorry, it is NOT used in that context, the word is right, the way it is used is absolutely WRONG.

you don't "resale" something, you "resell" it.

If you are saying "I'm going to "resale" my video game." you are NOT using English correctly.

You want to use "resale" correctly? here is an example.
This video game is going to be put up for "resale" to the public.

correct English is: "I'm going to resell my video game."

I can understand a non english speaker getting it wrong, but, a native English speaker? what the hell is going on in Schools these days? are English books being written by Yoda???

EDIT:

follow this link to the MANY proper ways to use the word "resale"

http://sentence.yourdiction...

here is an English learning site explaining the use of resell and resale: (resell is a verb, resale is a noun)

http://www.english-test.net...
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Ashunderfire86  +   407d ago
The only thing I hate about Steam is their tech support, it sucks. No phone number to call them, and barely no help whats so ever! You have to contact the developers of the game.
iistuii  +   407d ago
If i have ever had a problem with a game purchased, & that's very rare, I've fixed it in the first hour by just asking or reading the forums on steam. I admit you sometimes need to be PC savy to get by, but that's why i game on PC. I would rather have a tiny problem & be able to fix it, max out the game & play it how it was intended instead of a textureless jaggie mess on a console that i just need to stick in the disc.
s45gr32  +   407d ago
Yup we are on our own when it comes to video game issues like you said Valve Steam service lacks a good technical support and yes you are right there is no bloody phone number. When I have an issue with a game I have to Google or use Steam forums to see what the problem is and how to fix it. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Is like Linux were every issue you have with the operating system you have to rely on the community.
aliengmr  +   407d ago
I'm all for consumer rights, but I can't shake the feeling that this will have unintended consequences.
manageri   406d ago | Spam

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