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Submitted by Yep 408d ago | news

Miyamoto Believes Japanese Gamers Dislike Difficult Games

Shigeru Minamoto: “I’ve been making action games for some 30 years, and I’ve been thinking about the difference evident in how their popularity has been gradually declining in Japan whilst in America it has been maintained.

The issue is that Japanese who cannot overcome the level of difficulty in an action game no longer want to play them. This perception then spreads to all games as a whole, and people avoid them because they see them as difficult.

In the case of America, there are a lot more people who enjoy a challenge and will stick with it for you and try to overcome the initial hurdle. (3DS, Industry, Wii, Wii U)

Credit url: 4gamer.net
pedrof93  +   408d ago
Action ? I would called it Platform.

“It’s because they only know how to make games for children now.”

“Nintendo, the reason you’ve declined is because of your endless remakes, that’s all.”

100% Right.
#1 (Edited 408d ago ) | Agree(51) | Disagree(25) | Report | Reply
wishingW3L  +   408d ago
most likely lost in translation.
NewMonday  +   408d ago
lol, the Japanese can troll as good as anyone..

“Certainly, you need perseverance to play on the Wii U. Holding that horribly heavy pad was just too much for me"

“Who wants to play a game where if you miss one pixel on the screen it is an instant game over.”

“Games are supposed to be fun. Playing them needn’t be treated as an act of self-mortification.”
adorie  +   408d ago
Says the guy who made Super Mario Bros. 2, A.k.a The Lost Levels.
pixelsword  +   408d ago
I prefer difficult games where the difficulty is remedied by intellect, not reflex; that being said, I also like reflex games.

So I do understand the attitude of the Japanese gamer, and it does explain the type of games I do see in Japan.
ChickeyCantor  +   408d ago
"Says the guy who made Super Mario Bros. 2, A.k.a The Lost Levels."

He didn't. That was done by a small team. He wasn't much involved other than being part of Nintendo.
#1.1.4 (Edited 408d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(6) | Report
adorie  +   408d ago
For Sidar:
"The game was designed by *Shigeru Miyamoto* and Takashi Tezuka,[13] the creators of the original Super Mario Bros. Visually, it looked very similar to its predecessor, but it had a higher level of difficulty. Smooth level designs were replaced by tough obstacle courses."

Source - http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Also, if you're referring to Super Mario Bros 2.? (Super Mario USA in Japan) Shiggy gave some ideas to that small team you're referring to, such as suggesting that Luigi's legs do a little wiggle when he jumped, to display his ability to jump higher than the rest of the selectable characters.

I've beaten them all. I'm a Mario nut when it comes to the classics. and I <3 Koji Kondo
#1.1.5 (Edited 408d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(2) | Report
kreate  +   408d ago
Easy or not, just give me the games.

Games other than mario, zelda, pokemon, etc.
ShinMaster  +   408d ago
Does Miyamoto not know of the existence of difficulty options at the start of other games? Maybe he should try implementing them.

Super Mario 3D Land was way too easy and short. And the new Wii U Mario looks exactly the same.
It's a real shame.
#1.1.7 (Edited 408d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(1) | Report
indysurfn  +   408d ago
Wait he Cleary states action games. He is talking about difficult action games. Plus this guy has been know to what black people call "TRY TO BELONG". Look at the games sold their 40% are JRPG's those (at least the turn based ones) are NOT EASY. They are always made easier when they are shipped here. So most people are missing that he is talking about action games. Hand eye coordination, Reflex, hand eye based. But I have to also agree with the poster that said you mean platform games! In fact has this guy ever made a turn based RPG? EVER?
live2play  +   408d ago
idk man just because they are games for everyone doesnt mean they are childrens games

and getting 100 percent or meeting specific requirements for their games is freaking hard

my wife can finish a game but she cant %100 on all of em
indysurfn  +   408d ago
@live2play well said!
laura14collins   408d ago | Spam
zeal0us  +   408d ago
Well the Legend of Zelda is action-adventure so maybe he is referring to that.

Some of those comments from Japanese gamers really didn't seem like they came from actual Japanese gamers.
jcnba28  +   408d ago
You're 100% wrong.
ritsuka666  +   408d ago
For real, Mr. Miyamoto is one of the most inspirational people of the last decade. In a sense he is Mr. Nintendo,and has done more for the gaming industry than just about anyone. So, you have all my respect Myamoto-san!
Snookies12  +   408d ago
BULL! Those bullet hell games over there are crazy hard!
#2 (Edited 408d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Septic  +   408d ago
Not to mention, this game:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Case closed.
Snookies12  +   408d ago
Oh yes, can't forget about Cat Mario!
webeblazing  +   408d ago
lmao yoooo the funniest video i seen all week
Donnieboi  +   408d ago
I respect you Mr. Miyamoto, as one of my favorite game designers right now, and as the best to ever do it.

BUT, whenever I need a really challenging, deep YET fair game, I often turn to Japanese-made games.

Games like:
-Dark Souls
-Demon's Souls
-Monster Hunter
-Catherine
-Metal Gear Online
-Soul Sacrifice
-God's Eater
-Valkyria Chronicles series
-Mega Man 9 & 10
-Hard Corps: Uprising
-BlazBlue series
-Disgaea series
-Gran Turismo
-Shin Megami Tensei games
-MG Rising Reveangance
-Ninja Gaiden (the modern beat-em-up genre versions)
-Sin & Punishment: Star Successor
-Vanquish
-Resonance of Fate
-Yggdra Union
-Trauma Center/Team series
etc

And these are just games from THIS generation (despite the fact Japan has had a dismally small representation this console gen). So many of these hard games can only be found in Japan: The west has hard games or even hard modes, but all they do is give u less health, ammo, etc,

I look for games that have challenging GAMEPLAY, not just the Western gimmick of giving u limited health/resources in a game.

So if so many of the challenging (yet balanced) games that I like are mostly only found in Japan, than clearly there is a large market for it in their own country. I don't know if Miyamoto plays other companies games, but Japan loves lengthy and tough games. That's why they like portables. So they can find the time for these tougher games while on the go.
#3 (Edited 408d ago ) | Agree(21) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
Dj7FairyTail  +   408d ago
Gran Turismo is not Japanese game being published doesn't tie to all IP.
MrMister  +   408d ago
Gran Turismo is 100% Japanese. WTF are you talking about? Also Nintendo has kind of been insulating (or should I say isolating) itself from 3rd partys so no wonder they are out of touch with what other games are doing on the market (no offense to Nintendo fans, please don't start).

Japanese games are very very hard and challenging. So my guess is that those people there like it that way.
#3.1.1 (Edited 408d ago ) | Agree(19) | Disagree(2) | Report
Dj7FairyTail  +   408d ago
so easy to get dislikes lol sony fans are so easy to anger LMAO

TOOK DA DAMN BAIT
Stroke666  +   408d ago
I'm guessing he's going by the games that r selling and ones that are not recently. I dont believe he'd just pull these comments out of his arse. I won't pretend to kno how yhe games you mentioned sold in japan, but maybe there is a delcline in their sales over there. They just did the study where gamers now had a tough time completing the original mario. Rated e doesn't really mean rated kiddy alot of their games present a real challenge and some people just aren't as hardcore as they'd like to believe
AsheXII  +   408d ago
Apart from Monster Hunter all of those games sold pretty badly in Japan.
Donnieboi  +   408d ago
Dude u have the facts to back that up? Because I can prove that almost EVERY one of the games I mentioned were top sellers of their time in Japan (and/or were well received and praised).

First of all, the games I mentioned were console games mostly. The games on portables (which Japan prefers) are actual even harder.

Here are sales figures for these games (all of these games were the top sellers in their first months in Japan):

-Demon's Souls ("boosts ps3 sales in Japan" and "sells out" http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

-Monster Hunter (no need to post this--we all know it's a bombshell series there)

-Catherine ( http://www.computerandvideo...

-Metal Gear Online ( http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed...

-Soul Sacrifice (Boosted Vita sales above 3DS for a while due to just this one game http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

-God's Eater (sold 200,000 copies it's first week in Japan http://www.ign.com/articles...

-Valkyria Chronicles series ( http://www.1up.com/news/jap...

-BlazBlue series (Both console versions of the game debuted in the top ten of Japanese sales charts during their week of release. The PlayStation 3 version entered at number five with 34,000 units sold and the Xbox 360 entered at number 6 with 25,000 units sold http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

-Disgaea series ( http://www.vgchartz.com/gam...

-Gran Turismo (do I really need to to show you? seriously. Ok fine: http://www.polyphony.co.jp/...

-Shin Megami Tensei games (wow the amount of these sold is staggering, don't even bother. Series is hot as hell in Japan).

-MG Rising Reveangance (During its first week, the game topped Japan's Media Create and Enterbrain Japan charts list selling 308,681 units according to the former and 335,791 units according to the latter http://gematsu.com/2013/02/...

-Sin & Punishment: Star Successor (Famitsu 8/8/8/7 (31/40))

-Vanquish (this did well, but not great--so it's the only one here so far to not do great (but it was still highly rated in Japan)

-Resonance of Fate (Famitsu 34 out of 40 http://www.vgchartz.com/gam... Pretty good for consoles in Japan.

-Trauma Center/Team series (another one of the few on this list to not sell well in Japan, but was still highly received. Famitsu 31/40[7])

So as u can see, MOST of these games were great sellers in Japan.
#3.3.1 (Edited 408d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(0) | Report
gamertk421  +   408d ago
Someone has a hell of a lot of free time.
360ICE  +   408d ago
Also, Devil May Cry. DmC: Devil May Cry was easier though, but then again, that didn't perform well in Japan!
fsfsxii  +   408d ago
Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 gave me nightmares on Ultimate Ninja mode.
I still can't beat NGS1
Zodiac  +   408d ago
Those were provoked readers? Most of them agreed with him.
Moncole  +   408d ago
I like games with a challenge like Super Meat Boy or Dark Souls and not games that are cheap hard like when the make the enemies bullet sponges.
GribbleGrunger  +   408d ago
Well, if you're going to train a whole upcoming generation of gamers to waggle a controller, you can't then expect them to be able to use a normal controller without it feeling difficult.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

People might disagree but I believe that's part of the problem. If we take it even further by training them to use nothing but touch and PSEye/Kinect, it will eventually destroy this industry. Gaming is a learned skill and the controller is the connection between what you are doing with the controller and what is happening on the screen. I recently witnessed it myself when I went to a friends house. His mother, who often played with the Wii, could not come to grips with the simplest concept such as left/right (with the analogue sticks) and a button to jump.
#6 (Edited 408d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
Stroke666  +   408d ago
I don't completely disagree. Having the option of waggling moving or kinecting is a good thing for the casual but they, and by they I mean all three big wigs, must maintain the traditional option of a gamepad, joystick or whatever you want tocall it as those provide a greater challenge to those willing to take it. I've notplayed many move games but as far as wii mote and kinect related games some of those prove to he quite challenging and not degrading to the industry at all
GribbleGrunger  +   408d ago
Years ago, people used only one button and a joystick. It took a whole generation to learn how to use more complex controllers. Children would pick the new more complicated controller up and try to emulate their big brother/sister or parents. This is how they learned to game well.

The Wii came along and kids had nothing to learn because most of the games the casuals played just required a frantic waggle to get a result. It lead to a whole generation of newcomers being totally at odds with a more complex controller. Instead of being comfortable with the concept they had to learn a new skill at a much older age.

It is better to interest players at a younger age because 'play' is an integral part of growing up. Now more and more kids are learning to swipe a finger across a screen or tip it left and right. This is the dumbing down of skill based gaming. It was once second nature for kids to use traditional controllers but now less and less of them can use one adequately, which makes them feel the game is too hard.

It was a fear I expressed right at the beginning of the Wii generation and it played out exactly as I imagined, including, let me add, the fact that people would buy less games as a result.
#6.1.1 (Edited 408d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report
Stroke666  +   408d ago
you make waggling seem like jus a simple shake, but it is actually in most cases a finite motion they have to make. back when we moved from the joystick with one button, to the more complex gamepad with two face buttons it was still simple. having a kid master these out of controller 12 button monster controllers is crazy. for those destined to be gamers they'll figure it out but for those who will just game on occasion the simple option is just fine. wthin my gaming crew I was the first to get a wii and of course we began playing wii sports, you'd be surprised , or not, that actually having to slightly turn your wrist while providing the correct motion and releasing the trigger button at the right time is a bit more complex than say holding a trigger button and using analog sticks to guide meters in bowling. implemented correctly motion controls are cool but I stand by what said it should be an option not forced like in some game. I grew up transitioning from one button joystick to two button gamepad to six button gamepad from face buttons to shoulder buttons. my older two daughtersnever much were interested in gaming until the wii and the Kinect my 6yro came up with just the wii she transtitioned to her 3ds effortlessy as did my 10yro, however my 12yro eeehhh no so goo shes just not a gamer. these motion controls and touch screen feature are cool in my book so long as they remain optional you can't force decades of transtitions onto a beginner. I completely get your point though, it could seem like giving the easier option would hinder comprehension of gameplay but did it hinder us?
zerocrossing  +   408d ago
This view point may well be the reason Nintendo keep faltering these days, I've enjoyed playing plenty of challenging games and I'd be willing to wager the most difficult of which were Japanese.

As much as I respect the guy I think Miyamoto is mistaken.
#7 (Edited 408d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
Knushwood Butt  +   408d ago
Agree.

Miyamoto is a legend, but he's really losing the plot.

Goes back to a point I keep making about Nintendo being run by a bunch of old men that are out of touch with the current situation, and even worse, out of touch with the same group they are targeting.
live2play  +   408d ago
i just think it can all be fixed with a hard and normal mode
like say mario 3d world just take away the possibility of getting alot of 1ups and power ups from each stage
Xof  +   408d ago
That's strange, it seems to me that most, if not all, of the most challenging games these days are Japanese. Western games seem to have a huge handholding fetish, and Nintendo really seems to be the only Japanese developer with a similar bent.
BillytheBarbarian  +   408d ago
Exactly. They can't play a game without tons of save spots or checkpoints with health regeneration. Just try to play a Contra game with a kid that grew up on ps2. They give up.
MoveTheGlow  +   408d ago
Right? How the tables have turned, apparently! It's been the old Japanese gaming idea that Westerners are the lazy ones who can't take a challenge, while the Japanese were ready for anything.

I think we should take Miyamoto's stuff seriously. Yes, MH is tough, but that isnt the whole market. Obviously he's seeing a trend with the free-to-play MMO market, largely Korean and Chinese, working its way into Japan now that Japan isn't the gaming monolith it used to be. At least we'll be more likely to get the more difficult games with big figureheads like Miyamoto speaking up for our appetite for difficulty. I mean, they've still gotta be stunned by the whole Atlus picking up Demon's Souls and finding a giant American fanbase thing. From Software is on their THIRD Souls game now, and it's huge here.
#9.2 (Edited 408d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
C-Thunder  +   408d ago
Monster Hunter says hello.
False-Patriot  +   408d ago
Sure is, especially when most of the difficult games are japanese. Miyamoto just proved that Nintendo knows nothing about video game industry.
BillytheBarbarian  +   408d ago
He just knows about his own craft. I'm guessing after making a game the last thing on his mind is to play other games. He's got a family and probably travels or enjoys the real world. There is more to life than videogames.
shadowmist13  +   408d ago
Damm jam10 trollers,they come here and advertise but doesnt even comment...Anyway my one friend really got lazy and doesnt even pick up his xbox anymore because there is trainers for all games on pc so now he cheats at all games,in general there is people who want to play games but wanna beat it without effort.
CouldHaveYelledUiiW  +   408d ago
Whether he is correct or not-

-I think he should void saying things like this
Because comments like this, polarize.
Even though the 3DS is selling like socks, the WiiU does not need any controversy.

I always thought that the way to solve this was to have difficulty settings-
Label a setting as the “Recommended”/Normal setting
And then label the others Story, Easy, Moderate, Difficult, and Nightmare.
-And then allow gamers to switch between the modes during key time in game play.

I know that directors want to protect the vision of the game but “Nightmare and Easy or Story Modes” don’t have to make sense.

Why are there 30 monsters here and it take 5 headshots to kill them?
---Because it is “Nightmare mode”--–

What you don't think anybody can finish it?
---I bet you’ll be proven wrong. --- (Just like Ubisoft was surprised about the Hard Mode on Zombi-U).
memots  +   408d ago
My problem is most of these so called difficulty choice fells very cheap.

It doesn't require more skill or to work harder.
Most racing games I wil play with no assist with my wheel, yet when changing the difficulty level they don't really improve the skill of th A.I or make the car "more realistic" they just make the time to beat impossible or the A.I has magically made a better time than me.

Lets take shooters for another example, they don't make the A.I smarter , the simply throw more of them at you.

How about tweating it a bit', make gravity count ( can't carry has many ammo or weapon )
Make the A.I more aggressive ( without making them suicidal )
Make health harder to regain.

Give some penalty when yo play stupid. My nephew was playing hitman like Cod. Run and shoot , always spotted and there was no real penalty and it frustrates me.
#13.1 (Edited 408d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
MrTrololo  +   408d ago
#14 (Edited 408d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
bass4g  +   408d ago
A classic case of the grass is always greener I guess. Western gamers tend to think the opposite because of some hard japanese games but most of these don't actually sell that well in japan. Monster hunter being a notable exception. I think the sad truth is that most gamers no matter where they are now tend to blame the game rather than themselves if they cant do it. Gaming to an extent has been dumbed down accordingly (in gameplay terms anyway). Also I think maybe a big factor in japan is that a lot of people dont have that much time anymore and tend to play mostly on handhelds during commutes which means they don't have the time to invest in learning the skills required for hard games.
#15 (Edited 408d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Soldierone  +   408d ago
Not the only ones. Look at the West. Any game that doesn't hold your hand and doesn't give you a checkpoint every second it lets go is considered a "bad game."

Constant FPS with checkpoints galore, anything that steps out of that is overlooked and forgotten half the time. You can see it with achievements/trophies too, anything that requires effort is considered a "terrible trophy."
ziggurcat  +   408d ago
to be fair, there's a difference between effort, and pointless grinding. trophies where you have to grind for countless hours aren't the greatest. i would prefer a lot more think-outside-of-the-box trophies than ones that require you to prestige nearly 4 times just to unlock a character model (as was the case with tomb raider) or force you to play the game 5 times over (as it is with the MGS trophies).
Soldierone  +   408d ago
I hate grinding trophies, play with your friends trophies, and scavenger hunt trophies.

Yet when something involves actually taking your time and trying to accomplish something, people get all mad. I follow the trophy communities and the people actually earning them enjoy it, while others get thrown off and give up.
pr0t0typeknuckles  +   408d ago
I dont know if I can agree with miyamoto to me the Japanese make the hardest games,the only game from the west that I played in recent times that made me want to break a controller was uncharted on crushing difficulty.
ziggurcat  +   408d ago
uh... demon's souls, which took a while to even make it to north america, says, "hi!"
Tunavenom  +   408d ago
La-Mulana...
Krosis  +   408d ago
The very reason Japan lost the war! Lol Good ol 'merican can-do attitude.
PigPen  +   408d ago
He has had a lot of time to be outspoken in articles, where are the games.
Omegaman   408d ago | Spam
SaturdayNightBeaver  +   408d ago
ROFL this cant be true.. Japanese are knows for hard games . u dont trust this kind of bs
Dj7FairyTail  +   408d ago
DA BELIEVE
opinions aren't facts
that what he believe
tiffac008  +   408d ago
When did action games become hard? o_O
memots  +   408d ago
Nope not true, this is the casualisation on gaming and it's not just Japan.

My nephew rage quits all the time , as soon that something becomes difficult people quit , why do yo think games like Ac or pop( you cannot die literally ) regenerating health , infinite lives or continues, there is zero consequence to dying so why would they try hard ?

He won't play Gt5 cause there isn't a rewind feature. After dying twice on Killzone 2 on hard he put it on easy.

This is not just him i see it all the time its pretty much across the board.
#26 (Edited 408d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Picnic  +   408d ago
There's barely a Japanese game that I care for except for the odd Miyamoto one.

All their pseudo mythology, robots (and 'dating' sims that don't get released in Europe anyway).

On the PS2 the Japanese had some interesting survival horror games but nowadays the PS4 and XboxOne could probably have nearly as superb a roster of games for Western tastes without any Japanese input.
Omegaman   405d ago | Spam

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