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Submitted by Abriael 946d ago | opinion piece

Does the Xbox One’s Rumored GPU Clock Increase Represent a Durability Risk? is it Worth it?

In the last few days a rumor surfaced bringing forth the possibility that Microsoft is working on increasing the GPU clock of the Xbox One to react to the PS4′s allegedly more powerful specs.
Giuseppe Nelva of analyzes the rumor and weighs in on the possibility of it such an occurrence representing a durability risk, or being even worth it. (Xbox One)

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mewhy32  +   946d ago | Well said
Even with the clock increase the power difference cant be made up. The ps4 gpu has more compute units and with ddr5 the xbone isn't even close to a match. Overclocking definately causes more heat. Heat is the enemy of computer components.
Abriael  +   946d ago
yeah, pretty much exactly my point. It's not really worth risking a durability hit when computational parity cannot be achieved anyway.
darthv72  +   946d ago
Still unsure about final specs. There is rumored speed of the cpu/gpu but until the final details are released...let them try and find the sweet spot for performance.
loulou  +   946d ago
all these rumours should really stop until after microsoft talk about the xbox one at hot chip.

at the moment, no one out side of microsoft and amd knows what is there. i have also read that devs are under NDAs until september (hot chip is at the end of august..), and strangely enough AMD have not said a word about the xb1 silicon....!!

downclock, compute units, shaders.... no one knows what they have.

and quite honestly, looking at how good forza, ryse and killer instinct looked on xb1 dev kits at e3... something does not add up at the moment.

what ever it is, the end of august should be when we discuss this again
dedicatedtogamers  +   946d ago
Let's just imagine for a moment that PS4 and Xbox One are 100% identical in hardware power. Even if that was the case, the PS4 has 2 GB of extra RAM to play around with due to the PS4's operating system taking up a much smaller amount of resources.

But of course, we know that the PS4 has several hardware advantages over the Xbox One, which only makes the gap wider.

The interesting thing is that the games we've seen so far on PS4 were being made with the assumption that PS4 would have only 4 GB of GDDR5 RAM (everyone seems to gloss over this fact). Even the developers were surprised at the February reveal when Sony announced 8 GB of RAM. So, we are going to see some massive leaps in graphical fidelity for 2nd-generation PS4 games.
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vulcanproject  +   946d ago | Funny
Why bother????

The cloud will make Xbox one 4 times faster or 10 times or 40 times faster right?

Is what you said wasn't it Microsoft?


#1.1.4 (Edited 946d ago ) | Agree(74) | Disagree(17) | Report
darthv72  +   946d ago
@dedicated: do you think OS resources will remain the same throughout the console cycle?

We have seen over the course of the 360 and PS3 that refinements to the OS via FW updates can result in less resource footprint thus allowing more direct memory to be available to the developer. Now that is on 512mb (total) systems.

To think Ms couldnt refine the XB1 OS to use less memory is absurd. I expect sony to do the same refinements over the course of the PS4 as well. Nintendo has already made a move to improve their system performance via FW update and they are looking to improve it again later this year.

Performance improvements can be attained via FW but where they cant improve things is in the type of memory used. We can all agree that the GDDR5 is better than the DDR3. Eventually both will refine their systems to try and achieve the most memory available for use while not compromising the performance of operating systems.
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Truehellfire  +   946d ago
The amount of RAM has absolutely nothing to do with graphic fidelity. Going from 4GB to 8GB won't mean graphics will increase. The extra RAM will allow for decreased loading times, more objects to loaded into the world, easier development, etc.
badz149  +   946d ago
why is this not put under rumor? it's not confirmed, right?
gaffyh  +   946d ago
@Truehellfire - That's not necessarily true, because you can load better and more detailed textures with more RAM, which helped games like GeOW a lot.

On topic - possible RROD issues could happen, if MS is going to overclock this late in development. If it's true, it would yet another reason to wait a year to buy an Xbone, just to make sure there aren't any hardware issues. However, the overclock is very little, it's as if they are seeing how much of an overclock they can get away with. So maybe the huge fan and grills all over the console are good enough to keep the BGAs cool enough this time.
zeee  +   945d ago
@Abriael: "yeah, pretty much exactly my point. It's not really worth risking a durability hit when computational parity cannot be achieved anyway."

Right but I am of the view that even if computational parity IS achieved, there is no worth taking durability risks. That's like giving a big middle finger to all the gamers who are going to spend so much money on a console. Be it Sony, MS or Nintendo. Hardware reliability should be the top priority and any company that compromises that should be held accountable.

It's like driving a very fast car with unreliable breaks!
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BallsEye  +   945d ago

Actually, MS have a way to use up to 7GB of RAM for games but ofcourse no one here knows about it or doesn't want to know. MS built their system in a very smart way. Read up about Hypervisor that XO has.
Gamingcapacity  +   945d ago
I read the link. It talks about suspending the OS/apps to allow more GB to be allocated to the game. But doesn't MS want you to run the OS and use apps like skype while playing games.
DragonKnight  +   945d ago
@gamingcapacity: Yep, they do. And if anything is suspended to allow for more memory, then you'll have the same situation as the PS3 had at the beginning of its life when you couldn't access the XMB in-game. I would love to see the Xbox One fanboys justify that when they were on the PS3 for it for months.
madpuppy  +   945d ago
It seems that everybody at Microsoft is having an issue with making wise decisions concerning the XBone, screwing with something that reduces stability and increases heat is a mistake at this stage in the game, MS has to be on their "A" game when it comes to reliability. Being a little slower than the PS4 will not be an issue to the Xbox faithful, you keep customers by providing unique experiences (eg:exclusives) that you cannot get anywhere else and having a rock solid, reliable product, reacting to the competition in this manner (if it is true) is a failing business strategy.
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Enemy  +   945d ago
I say let them keep trying so it backfires. They should have thought about this a long time ago. Too late. It will never match the PS4.
malokevi  +   945d ago
Clock increase + 12GB RAM + Flash cache = PS4 getting ass-rapped out of the gate.

As if there was ever any doubt of that.
DragonKnight  +   945d ago
@malokevi: As soon as you said 12GB of RAM you moved from obvious troll to dumbass obvious troll. The Xbox One does not, and will not have 12GB of RAM, stop trying to spread FUD.
malokevi  +   945d ago

Reports are starting to come out. I've done my research, looks probable.

Prepare to eat your words Sony faithful.

MS has been spreading misinfo to third parties and keeping 1st parties in the know. An 8gb limit for game development should have made that obvious. That leaves an additional 4gb to do all the multitasking that I so love :D

XB1 FTW, Microsoft has got it bagged.
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Death  +   945d ago
Without finalized specs released, why is there so much debate? AMD created both the PS4 and XboxOne combo CPU/GPU. Running at a higher voltage would increase the performance of both CPU and GPU operations since they are on the same chip. This isn't like a PC where you can alter voltages independantly and increase clock cycles.

As for any talk of possible RROD, it's just as easy to say the larger XboxOne case allows for more airflow to cool it more effectively. The PS4 in it's much smaller case is more compact and less airflow friendly. Even without possible over clocking, the XboxOne design resembles a high end gaming rigs air cooling capability much more. I wouldn't even think of overclocking the PS4 due to it's design. I'm not claiming to know much, but I have a quadcore i7 2.8ghz processor running at 4 ghz per core in my system. I can appreciate the liquid cooling along with the fans needed to keep the chip from burning up. I couldn't do this with a small compact case.

As for ram allocation, having resources available in the background is not a bad thing. The PS3 can't cross game chat since the resources aren't there. 1 gig of dedicated ram will work wonders on the PS4, but having more is not bad. If consoles this gen were able to run well with 512mb, why do people all of a sudden think 5 gigs is insufficient? The same force that kept blu-ray from making games longer and higher def is working against 7 gigs of ram making games bigger, better and with more textures. The cost to fill the space is not justifiable by developers and publishers. If you think games will look different between the XboxOne and PS4 due to the amount of ram, you are delusional. Capability and reality don't often run together. You can look at the PS3's 50gig discs to see that games aren't longer or in native 1080p like people thought they would.
Kryptix  +   945d ago
If Microsoft is spreading misinformation, doesn't that ruin their credibility even more. Which also makes the cloud way worse since they're overhyping it? You know, I kinda wondered where "greenpowerz" went but you make a perfect replacement because of your blind stupidity.

Edit: By the way, if that Xbox One rumor is true, switching the 8gig RAM into 12 gigs...then they need to stop production of their console and push the release date even further to next year to meet demand. You can expect a lot of preorder cancels and more people getting the PS4 because people don't got the patience for bs. But you're too delusional to know how selling products work. The earlier the release, the more sales.
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DragonKnight  +   945d ago
@malokevi: Oh forgive me, if neogaf says it then it must be true. They never post rumours and have ironclad sources, and Microsoft haven't begun production of the Xbox One yet but will still release the console in November. Sounds completely legit. /s

@Death: Console size is not the only determinant of heat reduction. There's also chipset sizes and power output. This is why there are "slim" versions years later because chip sizes are reduced and produce less heat, so the compact size of the PS4 doesn't mean it has a greater heat reduction problem.
Death  +   945d ago
Neither console has hit the production stage. They are in pre-production still getting the kinks worked out on the line. Once full production starts the goal is to hit 1.5 million units per month. There is still plenty of time to make the holiday buying season. This is why an official date hasn't been set. In theory they could add ram, I don't honestly see the point though. The bs ram arguements on the net are not indicitive of actual performance, it's just bragging rights and cannon fodder.
3-4-5  +   945d ago
Are they purposely trying to allow RRoD #2 to happen ?
DragonKnight  +   945d ago
@Death: Early indications are that the PS4 is out in 4 months. They are not in "pre-production" phase. The plans are finalised to make time for production and shipping. Even if it comes out in December they are still not in pre-production. I can't believe anyone would think that their aren't consoles being made right now to meet up with pre-order and launch window demands. It would be inefficient to wait another month or two.
Death  +   945d ago
Sony is currently telling retail partners that the console hasn't hit full production yet. They are still running them through slowly and testing/making adjustments. They plan to be at 1.5 million units per month at peak capacity once full production status is hit. The Xbox 360 launched with 400,000 units which isn't uncommon for a launch window. If Sony and Microsoft hit full production capacity and only make 1 million per month they will be fine 60 days from launch give or take a week to get them from the factory to retail channels. After launch they will release in waves every 3 weeks.

None of this is new. This has been the launch strategy for quite sometime. If they were in full production today, that would be 1-1.5 million units in storage per month for 5 months. That would be very, very bad for business. If either company wanted to change something like ram quantity per chip, it wouldn't be a problem since vendors wouldn't be shipping this soon anyway. Once again though, it's highly unlikely they would increase the amount since it will not impact games.
Belking  +   946d ago
You have no idea what you are talking
XabiDaChosenOne  +   946d ago | Well said
Translation: "please be wrong, I have no idea what you're talking about but it sounds bad for Xbox"
dantesparda  +   945d ago
To death, malokevi, elitenick and belking

It is beyond obvious that youse do not know what is going on and understand the technology and are really just wishing really hard on a star. I feel sorry for you's, y'all are truly diehard fans, I bet youse signed the petition to bring back the DRM
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Elit3Nick  +   946d ago
the difference between the DDR3 and the *ahem* GDDR5 have already more or less been eliminated with the recent ESRAM upgrade
Mikeyy  +   946d ago
No it hasn't. You can't funnel all 5GBs of ram through esram/edram.
Elit3Nick  +   946d ago
I'm talking about the bandwidth difference, and it's NOT 5 gigs, if the hypervisor takes 1 gig then games can have as much as 7 gigs allocated to gaming, its sad that people still say only 5 gigs...
KwietStorm  +   946d ago
No it has not, please stop with this. The esram is not is a workaround. It cannot be fed the same throughput. The gap between the two may not be as wide, but it is not eliminated.
MysticStrummer  +   946d ago
"the difference between the DDR3 and the *ahem* GDDR5 have already more or less been eliminated with the recent ESRAM upgrade"

No. The bandwidth increase only applies to that 32MB of ESRAM.

Microsoft themselves say only 5GB of RAM will be available for games.
quenomamen  +   946d ago
Suuuure it has, next thing the X1 fanboys are going to start saying is that the RAM is the same for both systems. But lets say they are the same, now explain away how to overcome the fact that PS4 has 2 more Gigs of it. And 32 megs of esram is not gonna make up that difference, now matter how much you pray it will.
McScroggz  +   946d ago
Imagine a water hose for a moment. The DDR3 is like a water hose, it can spray a decent amount of water, but not very fast. The eSRAM is like a nozzle that increases the pressure of the water but overall decreases how much water the hose sprays.

The GDDR5 is like a pressure washer. It's still faster than water hose with a nozzle, and it still sprays a lot more water as well.

This is the simplest way I can explain the practical difference in the memory of the Xbox One and PS4.
black0o  +   946d ago
at any given time u will only get 32 MB available that's 32 VS 7000 not fair fight
ThanatosDMC  +   945d ago
Wtf, are you talking about Elit3Nick? Xbone doesnt need any of that when they have unlimited ram and bandwidth with their super awesome-o Cloud powerz.
Pope_Kaz_Hirai_II  +   945d ago
Elit3Nick + 23h ago
the difference between the DDR3 and the *ahem* GDDR5 have already more or less been eliminated with the recent ESRAM upgrade

You dont know what your talking about.
Death  +   945d ago
It's amazing how many know the difference between GDDR5 and DDR3. Bandwidth is ideal for GPU calculations that are non-linear. Low latency is needed for linear calculations. Neither GDDR5 nor DDR3 offer low latency and high bandwidth. This is why PC's use DDR3 for CPU calculations and GDDR5 for GPU calculations. If CPU motherboards use 16 gigs of DDR3 and GPU's 2 gigs of GDDR5, which needs more ram?

Microsoft addressed bandwidth restrictions by adding the eSRam which seems very small in comparison to 7 gigs of ram. When a highend GPU uses 2 gigs of GDDR5, that relatively small amount of eSRAM in conjunction with the DDR3 is more than people think.

What has Sony done to address latency issues associated with GDDR5 and linear CPU calculations? That high bandwidth GDDR5 isn't going to be used at it's nominal speed for the CPU. CPU's don't use multiple lanes like a GPU, the GDDR5 isn't just less than ideal, it's not used optimally.

The ram arguement really is a moot point. We need to see the games running to trully understand how each system affects real world gaming. Theoretical horsepower is useless. Look how quickly the Cell was dropped after it's power on paper never materialized.
dark-hollow  +   946d ago
Nobody said that it'll be more powerful than the ps4 after the overclocking.

There is no harm in pushing the hardware capabilities a little bit further.
SilentNegotiator  +   946d ago
"There is no harm in pushing the hardware capabilities a little bit further"

Actually, bringing up the clock can make it run hotter.
Which is KINDA why this article exists.

But whatever it takes to defend Xbox, I guess. Even pretending to know about technology.
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HammockGames  +   946d ago
Last minute changes w/o adequate testing can be a REALLY bad idea - especially those that could generate extra heat (or more heat than the system can vent).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the postmortem on the launch 360 model connected the RRoD to last minute (untested) changes made to the system.

And I believe it was one of the system architects that stated the above (it was suits that tampered w/ the original design, against the design team's wishes).

We've been down this road before, folks. Don't think any of us would care to repeat it.

Edit: Granted, the lead free solder didn't help the RRoD fiasco (pretty sure that wasn't last minute)
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Heartnet  +   946d ago
Exactly right...

First COmment pretty much all it says is that it still wont compare to ps4... Why does that even matter!

People just dont like choice and just want 1 supreme dictator.
dantesparda  +   945d ago
Actually I agree with dark hollow and think it will be better for ps4 if the x1 is more powerful than it is now, because it will make for better 3rd party games on the ps4, cuz you know these bullsh!t a$$ 3rd party companies are going to code to the lowest common denominator (the x1) to keep console parity. So I say any improvements to the X1 are a good thing and a plus for the PS4
DonFreezer  +   946d ago
Shut your mouth.The things your beloved ps4 has aren't even mentioned in graphics card descriptions.Name me one retailer that mentions computetional units and teraflops in graphics cards or shut your mouth.
MysticStrummer  +   946d ago
So the retailer has better info about a console's capabilities than the designers and developers?

Interesting point of view.
Kryptix  +   946d ago

The link provides the official PS4 faq sheet from Sony with everything you need to know about the specs. PS4 has 18 computing units compared to the Xbox One's 12. GDDR5 speed is 176gb/sec while Xbox One's GDDR3's speed is 68gb/sec. Yea, believe it. lol
NeoTribe  +   946d ago
You done being stupid yet?
Heartnet  +   946d ago

Can you now link the offical Xbox announcement with 100% confirmed finalized specs?
DonFreezer  +   944d ago
Are you that stupid ps fanboys?I said name me one retailer that mentons those spces on a pc graphics card.If they mattered that much why can't I find info like that when I'm searching for a graphics card?Are you that delusional?Where have I said about the capabilities of the ps4? NAME ONE RETAILER.
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Godlovesgamers  +   946d ago
So true and more to the point, heat degrades the life of electronics/solid state components.
gapecanpie  +   946d ago
It's not DDR5, it's GDDR5 and besides that the type of ram do not equal more graphics horse power when will you people understand that? The graphics depending mostly on the GPU itself.

Depending on the clock increase there can be a big difference as the ps3 GPU was only 50% more powerful anyway it wasn't like it was 100% more and do you really think MS would waste time and money if it wouldn't make a difference?

Beside all that fanboy cr*p both systems have a low end GPU and pretty much the exact same 8 core table processor. The whole argument between fanboys is pointless as a tu*d will always be a tu*d even if its 50% more powerful.

If you add 50% more horse power to a Toyota Prius you still have a tu*d. If you overclock a Intel Pentium processor by 50% you still have a tu*d, a slightly better tu*d but still a tu*d.

My whole point is you fanboys go on and on about specs as if one system completely destroy the other and somewhere in your minds you all actually believe that(Mostly Sony fans) when its just not true the difference between both systems are laughable.
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quenomamen  +   946d ago
I like how you just downplayed a 50% power advantage like it was nothing, lol. Go modify your car, cellphone, PC whatever so it has 50% less power then come back here talking about how its pointless.
Kryptix  +   946d ago
GDDR5 is a quad core while GDDR3 has only 2 cores. This means that the PS4's memory reading power is double of the Xbox One's. And you're wrong about how the GPU is the only thing that matters. With a higher bandwidth, the PS4 will be able to run games at higher frames per second using the GPU's full power better than the Xbox One. It's what some developers have been talking about for a while. If Xbox One wants to run games at 60 frames, they have to tweak it, decrease graphical power for smoother frames per second. So at the end, the PS4 is going have smoother, better looking games.
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NeoTribe  +   946d ago
Ps4 has a 50 percent power gap. Thats not small. Sony is also releasing a hardcore game console. Microsoft is still trying to figure out what the hell theres is for. Now there trying to promote it for smal businesses to do conference calls on lol. The system is a joke and ia doing horribly. There preorder sales represent the faith people have in it.
Benchm4rk  +   946d ago
Its gddr5 ram not ddr5. There is a difference
HammockGames  +   946d ago

GDDR5 = real right now (any modern PC GPU).

DDR5 = will be sweet to have someday (... after DDR4 has come and gone, of course :0)
aquamala  +   945d ago
yep there's no DDR5 specs, GDDR5 is based on DDR3 tech, DDR4 is coming soon on PCs.
bootsielon  +   945d ago
GDDR5 is not based on DDR3, ignoramus.
aquamala  +   945d ago

"Like its predecessor, GDDR4, GDDR5 is based on DDR3 SDRAM memory "
Benchm4rk  +   945d ago
FamilyGuy  +   946d ago
This is odd, a few weeks ago the rumor was that they were underclocking to lower the heat. :/
CaptainFaisal  +   946d ago
They should just change the GPU make it easier for them ( i know it costs millions of $ and will make a delay but it will make the console better even if sony has a year advantage over x1 )
Heartnet  +   946d ago
So they could get such a lil power for 1 year wait and millions of lost millions of sales on top of that?

Way to double the losses of the X1 if they did that xD
GodGinrai  +   945d ago

If I was running MS thats what I would do. Delay it till Q2 2014 and drop a better Gpu in it.bad tech choices are what put them in this scenario. and once they launch it will be too late . they could delay and upgrade while milking the X360 for one more holiday on the games front while keeping the x1 in the public eye.

I dont think they are ballsy enough to do that though.
DarkHeroZX  +   945d ago
@The realness

Yeah but the down side with delaying is not only would they have to try and strike up a deal with AMD and pay out more money but a change in the GPU could potentially cause them to have to do a system redesign which could push the X1 back as far as 2015. Also in going back and changing things like that you are risking the faith in your consumers. They've already lost faith with many with the DRM policies and even a reversal didn't save their image. Then MS tried to sell us the notion that more powerful hardware didn't matter because cloud would make that gap irrelevant. I think they need to just leave the Xbox alone and do their own thing. All the wishy-washy stuff doesn't help their case.
Benchm4rk  +   945d ago
Not too mention the games already developed for the current specs. Don't thing developers would be too happy if MS decide to change there GPU causing them to redo all there hard work and get the games running on the new machine
Mounce  +   946d ago
So, we're looking at a similar 360 hardware failure rate and;

you could say Microsofts making it worse with the overclocking.....

*puts on shades*

being left in the Clouds.

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Heartnet  +   946d ago
Where have u gotton the % of failed X1?

Far as i know nobody X1 has RROD yet.... so far they have a 100% un failure rate as the console is not out!
Mounce  +   945d ago

Re-read my post you silly Xbot.

"So, we're looking at a similar 360 hardware failure rate and;"
"at a similar 360 hardware failure rate"
"similar 360 hardware failure rate"
"360 hardware failure rate"

Should I break it down further about how I'm making an expected comparison of the hardware failure of the 360 and Expecting/Predicting that for the Xbox One and in no way claimed X1's already Have failed.

Learn to read before you get your panties all bunched up to protect your precious Microsoft and Xbox.
TheXgamerLive  +   946d ago
wow sony fans are desperate and blind. It isnt being increased it was already there, they just only read seperate and not simultanious in and out speeds and second its the ps4 that will over heat. It was designed as a 4 gig system and last min to compete w/ MS was upred to 8 but the cooling system is the same. The ps4 will have trouble with this.
Good_news_every1   945d ago | Spam
BallsEye  +   945d ago
You have no idea how it works. GDDR5 (NOT DDR5!!!!) doesn't automatically mean that it's better. Let's not forget GDDR5 is much slower than DDR3 and that's why MS chose it. To work well with esram, dx11.2 with tilling that will be available only to XO and W8. Silly person will just look at few numbers on paper and will believe it's all that there is to it.
Good_news_every1   945d ago | Spam
ps3_pwns  +   945d ago
the fact of the matter is you would have to be an idiot, moron, or a retard to get a xbox one over a ps4. I mean really you want a red ring of death or something?
nosferatuzodd  +   945d ago
Lol microshaft will over clock it i believe they will do it ,bin saying that from the beginning it's the same thing happened with the 360 they were trying to Match ps3 power by doing the exacted same thing and every one saw how that went red ring of death anyone this is why I'm not trusting Microsoft ever I have 2 360 red ring on me no not again
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DarkHeroZX  +   945d ago
If the rumored increase is true then that means that MS's claim to use the cloud to do graphic and other processing is BS. If the cloud is sooo capable then this increase wouldn't be necessary.
awi5951  +   945d ago
They need to fix the crap cpu's the physics and AI are going to suck this gen on both consoles and it will hold back pc again. BF3 physics in multiplayer hurt computers with 3.6 and 3.8 six and 8 core cpus and now these apus with less than 2g cores man the physics are going to suck hard.
Corpser  +   945d ago
console fanboys argue about specs... It's like watching Toyota and Honda owners argue how fast their car goes
awi5951  +   945d ago
overclocking doesnt cause more heat more voltage causes more heat. You can overclock without causes more heat if your good at it.
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xReDeMpTiOnx  +   946d ago
It was said they are already having over heating problems. So to over clock it would just spell disaster especially given microsofts track record with the whole rrod.
darthv72  +   946d ago
overheating problems??? The majority of the casing is ventilated and there is no internal power supply to add to the heat generated.

Is whoever said this stating fact or hearsay?
Abriael  +   946d ago
I didn't hear anything about *present* overheating problems. It does have a very big fan, even if the fan is actually the least important part of a cooling solution.
B1663r  +   946d ago
A big fan moves the same amount of air as a smaller fan at higher RPM.

The reason for the big fan is noise, not heat.
Heartnet  +   946d ago

Wow you should tell this to E-On.. Wind farms can now be made so much smaller :D
Transporter47  +   946d ago
@darthv72 Well if you're going to blame the power supply for RROD, 360 has a brick too... just saying.
darthv72  +   945d ago i blame the RROD on improper ventilation.

Heat builds up and if not properly able to be dispensed it stays inside and takes its toll on the traces and other components. the point i made about internal power supply is because that is a great source of heat that also need to be dispensed of.

Not having an internal power supply is one less generator of heat inside the machine. another way to combat the heat is to have a good fan and of course...enough ventilation.

PS3 has an internal PS but it also has a really big fan. We can assume the PS4 is designed the same because there is good ventilation and a really big fan. MS does not want there to be another RROD fiasco so that is why they too have good ventilation and a really big fan.

External PS just lessens the issue of heat generated internally. Some ridicule the idea but it doesnt bother me in any way. Im used to external PS since the 2600 on up. Im just glad its not a wall wort that takes up two places on a power strip but a more regular 2 (maybe 3) prong plug that will fit into any outlet without obstruction to existing outlets.
awi5951  +   943d ago

RRod wasnt caused by heat it was caused by stupid new European regulations banning lead in solder. And microsoft picked a bad lead replacement that failed to work correctly and melted easily.
D-riders  +   946d ago
they were having chip problems so uping the clock speed could be disasterous
Cmk0121  +   946d ago
rumor about a rumor so we can bash xbox one and "M$" haha
ps3_pwns  +   945d ago
why would you get a xbox one over a ps4 first with al these probems and possibilities not to mention ps4 being stronger cheaper and will have way more people playing it online and be the highest selling console. I mean hello guys live is gonna be dead like myspace. ps4 the new social gaming network. some of you have to let the xbox go.

you cant beat the ps4 so join it its cheaper system bro
warewolfSS  +   946d ago
This site is such a joke. I really can't believe I keep coming back to thise site every day and look at you fucking idiots jerk each other off over rumors about Sony
Abriael  +   946d ago
Actually this is a rumor about Microsoft.
CrimsonStar  +   946d ago
He is saying when ever there is a positive rumor about Sony its fact and when there is a bad rumor about Microsoft its fact . And for the most part he's right that happens a lot on this site .
GribbleGrunger  +   946d ago
Welcome to the nightmare that PS fans suffered for 5 years. Fun, isn't it.
s8anicslayer  +   946d ago
So why do you keep coming back? Plus it is said that when someone uses curse words a lot in their vocabulary they are compensating for a lack of intelligence....Hmmmm, so that's why you keep coming back.
warewolfSS  +   946d ago
I tend to curse when I see idiots are allowed to have an opinion
Parapraxis  +   946d ago
You must be cursing at yourself non-stop then.
xReDeMpTiOnx  +   946d ago
You are just as bad if not worse for making comments like that
Parapraxis  +   946d ago
Then leave.
fsfsxii  +   946d ago
Geez, you've been moaning about the "Idiots" of this site and yet you're still here.
ps3_pwns  +   945d ago
if you cant beat us join us. why are you fighting the ps4? why are you fighting us? wouldn't it be better to be on the winningside and have peace and fun? instead you want to give yourself a brain tumor, migrains and stuff because you want to hold on to your ms fanboyism?
boneso82  +   945d ago
ummmm... fuck off then! lol

Seriously though, every comments section of every gaming site is heavily in Sony's favour. They never used to be, it used to be "360 rocks" and "PS3 sucks".

There is a very good reason, several infact, as to why the gaming community now prefer Playstation over XBOX and it nothing to do with fanboyism because half of the so called "Sony fanboys" are 360 owners.
#4.8 (Edited 945d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
DoesUs  +   946d ago
An increase has not happened.
Elit3Nick  +   946d ago
I didn't realize you were working for Microsoft...
sashimi  +   946d ago
Well even if he was working at Microsoft...he still wouldn't know wtf is going on, just look at what all their executives have been doing for the past month or so >.>
DoesUs  +   946d ago
20 years in the industry...I know what's going on. You keep your head in the clouds like everyone else.
Elit3Nick  +   946d ago
So having 20 years of experience in the industry instantly makes you know what a company is planning?
DoesUs  +   946d ago
No, it means i know more than you, so take a hint.
warewolfSS  +   946d ago
The best part!!!! A Sony fanboy gets to post a rumor/opinion article from a playstation site.
Abriael  +   946d ago
It's not a playstation site. It covers all platforms. You seem to be reaching, and a tad mad.
#6.1 (Edited 946d ago ) | Agree(32) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
s8anicslayer  +   946d ago
tonight must be a full moon..lmao
Benchm4rk  +   946d ago
Lol the site is called but it some how is not a PlayStation site......hmmmm. It may topics from all of gaming but it is first and foremost a Sony fanboy site
EXVirtual  +   946d ago
I really think this upgrade is an xbox fanboy rumor. It's waaay to late in the game to do this. Look at the DRM, that has to be gotten rid of from a patch (ms probably wanted it like that I guess, but time is also a factor). Even if it's true, the PS4 has 7GB (rumors that it'll be 8GB but most likely 7GB) of GDDR5 RAM for games. I'm betting you this. If they have upgraded it, they'll use at least 5GB of that 12GB of DDR3 RAM for the OS.
Abriael  +   946d ago
Well, it's not really too late to do it to be honest, this kind of upclock can be done really easy and really fast, if you think your cooling solution is up to snuff. As a matter of fact it can be done via software.
EXVirtual  +   946d ago
Oh hell yeah I know the clock speed can be down through software, I'm just talking about the RAM.
Abriael  +   946d ago
@EXVirtual: Oh yeah, that's VERY unlikely, besides, at that speed 12 Gigs would be nearly useless.
#7.1.2 (Edited 946d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(1) | Report
darthv72  +   946d ago
the performance increase is dependent on if that level was built in initially and through some purpose of downclocking it can be enabled to perform faster.

A good example is the PSP. It has a 333 cpu but for the majority of the first few games the system never ran at full speed. There was even homebrew that could change the performance of the speed to make games perform better that ran slower.

Sony addressed the speed issue with later releases unlocking the full speed of the chips inside. The main reason they didnt run the system at full speed was heat and power consumption. the system was capable but they intentionally underclocked the performance at first.

i think sony had a fw update at one point that unlocked the performance and made it run full speed. For the ps4 and xb1 to be able to do the same is quite possible.

If Ms is using a cpu that has a max speed of 2.0ghz but intentionally runs it at 1.6 then theoretically its possible for them to turn up the clock if they needed to via fw.
Elit3Nick  +   946d ago
Wait if you list that the Xb1 has 12 gigs of ram, then not counting the fact that the hypervisor will dynamically allocate resources for more RAM during games, it would be 9 gigs minimum for games, and assuming that the 2 OSs and hypervisor take 1 gig each, which is likely not the case, would be 3 gigs max for the OSs
#7.2 (Edited 946d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
edonus   946d ago | Spam
LackaJaKane  +   946d ago
this rumor is just surfacing, but i hear this is something that has been in the works prior to the reveal. which is probably why they didn't release the gpu specs.

"The bump was supposed to have been planned prior to initial reveal. Any actual changes would have taken place during E3 Week."

EDIT: and also someone asked the guy for his source's track record and this was his response.

but anyway it's interesting.
#7.4 (Edited 946d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Cmk0121  +   946d ago
fanboy rumor that reflects MS negatively as said to cause risks and problems???HMMMMMMMMM
JBSleek  +   946d ago
They would use 11 of the 12 GB of RAM.

HyperVisor allows the Xbox to suspend the OS and use the RAM for games.
lgn15  +   946d ago
It's hardly to late in the game. Xbox 360 changed it's specs with less than 4 months until release. sooo
Good_news_every1   945d ago | Spam
CRAIG667  +   946d ago
They haven't even released official specs yet, all these rumours are just retarded.
Dlacy13g  +   946d ago
Until I see something definitive I am just going to assume all is as is on the original specs. But I will add this... No way does MS make any increase to that machine if it puts them in a position of even possibly being another RROD. $1 Billion put out for repairs / warranty was a big blow last time... I feel confident they wont let that happen again.
Thehyph  +   946d ago
The engineers and techs salaried by Microsoft will certainly flesh the possibilities out. Place more trust in them than internet posters at least.

The day one patch thing really surprised me. Why can't it be fixed before launch? Would that mean at least some part of the system has been finalized and hit production-- too late to be fixed? Is it that baked into the OS that the patch just hides or disables the programming? Or does it remove the programming? If it were to just hide it, why would they do that?

Maybe the staffer change will bring some timely answers and confidence to the present uncertainty and confusion. Who knows?
Dlacy13g  +   946d ago
Well a day one patch for me means one or both of two options: A) The system is already in production and any update to a GPU upclock for the hardware can only be done via firmware update B) Much of the OS features are still in progress so OS revisions will be handled through the day one patch.

I believe option B is most certainly part of the picture...but option A is the wild card. Could be true...and if so at this point would 100% need to be done via firmware given how late we are in the launch day manufacturing cycle.
#9.1.1 (Edited 946d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report
Thehyph  +   946d ago
That makes sense. Just like the PS4 will have a day one patch with the proper release candidate software, too.
Funantic1  +   946d ago
Yeah I agree. Microsoft has the money to increase specs and still release on time. They would be paying for a lot of overtime and maybe have a limited supply at launch. If they had a finalized version it maybe would have been used at E3. I think they thought ahead just in case if they had to upgrade hardware or speed up the Xbox One to compete against the PS4. It's not like they would have to rebuild everything. One thing for sure is that the X1's specs today won't be the same on launch.
ChubbyLover  +   946d ago
I think the console is powerful enough as it is. If Microsoft want to increase the ram and gpu to make it even more competitive to the PS4 thats fine.

Honestly the only thing that bugged me about the currect setup is all that RAM going to the OS. other than that its still a powerful machine.

I will be happy if they do and content if they dont i guess.
edonus   946d ago | Spam
Dlacy13g  +   946d ago
The OS RAM is a point of mystery for all of us. Rumors say 3GB reserved, but nothing official has been stated. It could very well be for launch window games and devs they are telling them to limit their RAM usage to 5GB as a safeguard to ensure they know exactly how much ultimately they will need for the OS. I have zero doubts the Xbox One OS will use more than 1GB... probably 2GB for sure given what we know about its multitasking ability but I could see them lowering the reserved footprint after launch when all is finalized on the OS footprint and needs.
ChubbyLover  +   946d ago
I just cant wait until we get actual confirmed specs.

Not just cause i want to know just for my own interest, but so we dont have to keep beating this topic to death on how powerful is this or that.

I already know its going to be great for graphics, Forza 5, Ryse, Quantam Break, and multitudes of Multiplats already confirm that Xbox One can handle fantastic looking games.
Primal Rex  +   946d ago
Again we play games not specs
zebramocha  +   946d ago
That seems dismissive because the xbone could match the ps4 specs,the ps2 was weaker in comparison to its competitors,not every ps2 looked like liquid a**.
NeoTribe  +   946d ago
Yes, but specs play games. Without the specs your not making a leap.
ps3_pwns  +   945d ago
without the specs you might as well stck with the xbox 360 for 7 more years and just play mutliplats like you been doing the whole gen. if you want the bestand strongest hardware for the cheapest then ps4 is what you buy. if you want a weak piece of sh*t console with no exclusives and you have money to burn or no bills and finances then get an xbox one.
MasterCornholio  +   946d ago
If they can raise the clock speeds without having an issue with the cooling than i dont see a problem with that. However i strongly recommend Microsoft to avoid the RROD issue.
FrigidDARKNESS  +   946d ago
It poses no problem at all. It has been tested to the max for thermal reliability months ago as stated by this Engadget article.

Increase clock speed custom GCN 2.0 GPU= superior graphics.
Thehyph  +   946d ago
Given that the architecture doesn't change with a clock speed increase, you're more likely to see increased frame rates than graphical fidelity.
Frame rates are more important in my book. I'll take a hit on graphics any day to get 60 frames.
FrigidDARKNESS  +   946d ago
The ladt thing that may change is the ram going from 8gb to 12gb of DDR3 .
The gpu will totally be different from those vgleaks.
fossilfern  +   946d ago
@FrigidDARKNESS I could see a GPU clock increase if the cooling is enough. But adding more RAM this late into the hardware? I don't think its true, the Dev-kits are 12gb apparently but the console its self is locked.

But if MS are adding another 3gb Ram to the machine it will end up costing them a pretty penny.
cell989  +   946d ago
desperate times call for desperate measures
FrigidDARKNESS  +   946d ago
Exactly how is this desperate? The games already look better than the competition.
lgn15  +   946d ago
Yup... Sorry fanboys but if the PS4 is so much more powerfull then why does the One have more graphically impressive games?

Quantum Break:

Crimson Dragon:


Forza 5:

Ryse: http://cloud.attackofthefan...

The new Halo (not in game footage):



Planetside 2:


Final Fantasy for PS4:
Parapraxis  +   946d ago
For myself, Infamous Second Son was easily the best looking game at E3.
Watch Dogs, Killzone SF, and MGS 5 are up there.

(opinions right guys, maybe you should learn what they are)

Lets wait until Digital Foundry gets a hold of a few completed games, then we can talk.
#14.1.2 (Edited 946d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(3) | Report
cell989  +   946d ago
no they dont, when your whole company has to rearrange all mayor key players, you know desperate times are running wild. The games dont look better than the competition because everything they showed was running on super altered dev kits with capabilities higher than the xbone can really do.
cell989  +   946d ago
one more thing Metal Gear Solid 5 was the best looking xbone game, and thats a multiplat, Ryse was a QTE demo with very limited gameplay (if you can call it that) and a character with tank-like animation. Titan Fall looked average considering its a nex-gen game, Battlefield 4 > Titan Fall in graphics, im not even going to mention just how much more advance Frostbite Engine is to Titan Falls engine. Chrimson Dragon was not all that on graphics, atleast on what they showed. The gameplay demo of Infamous pwns everything xbone showed, because it was and actual gameplay demo with great graphics
Mikeyy  +   946d ago
Why is Microsoft overclocking hardware now? I thought the cloud was supposed to give you the performance of 5x xbones.

HeroPsychoDreamer  +   946d ago
Good point!!
Dlacy13g  +   946d ago
here is another point... rumor = / = fact.
jjb1981  +   946d ago
If the CPU and GPU are on the same die and AMD has been producing them already wouldn't Microsoft be wasting millions of dollars? They would probably need an additional fan and that might cause a needed change in form factor.
NatureOfLogic  +   946d ago
It seems most Xbox fanboys want PS4 like hardware but just don't want to buy a PS4.
Parapraxis  +   946d ago
Sizzling burn! toss another T-bone on that barbie!
Funantic1  +   946d ago
We all know that they're speeding up the X1 but we still don't know how. So now everyone is guessing.
dcj0524  +   946d ago
I kind of feel bad for xbox one. ALL ps4 devkits had 4GB of ram in it but in feburary sony put in an extra 4. With only 4 gb ( 3 for games at the time) it looks as good as XBOX ONEgames. Imagine when the developers can spend all their time with 7GB available Iinstead of 3. It'll BLOW microsoft games out of the water both graphically and in size.The PS4 is more future proof than you think.
DarkHeroZX  +   945d ago
I wouldn't say all that but we probably will see a significant increase over time.
isarai  +   946d ago
I am not interested in MS or the XB1 in the least, but these constant fuckups and issues are worrying me. As much as i dislike MS and the way they are handling the XB1 and the industry in general, i really don't want them to fail, we need the competition, and if Nintendo's Wii U is the only competition we end up with, things are going to get very weird and most likely ass sorts of fucked up. I mean Sony barely made it through the PS3 lifecycle, the only thing that got them back up on their feet was ditching BC, their huge library of first party studios, and putting so much into getting those first parties familiar with PS3 complicated architecture producing some of the best and most advanced console exclusives around. The issue is MS does not have those same things to help them out, they don't have very many first party studios, the architecture is going to be well known right off the bat so there's no room to grow their(though engines will obviously improve) not to mention it's not even as powerful as the PS4, and they already don't have anything they can ditch to bring the price down from $500 unless they ditch the Kinect, but seeing as how much it's integrated into the systems functionality i don't think they can do that without a major overhaul of the navigation tools.

Is short, i just don't see how they can really recover from this really fucked up position they're in, they really don't have much at their disposal to improve themselves besides money to buy off exclusives from third parties witch might end up going multiplatform after a year or so anyways. I hope they can survive and get back up on their feet, even if i hate them, but i really wouldn't be surprised if they pull out of the gamin business after this gen if not sooner to be honest
Dlacy13g  +   946d ago
They recover simply by selling the box come this November. Gamers have short memories... casual consumers even shorter. RROD slowed down the 360 but didn't kill it off by any stretch and that was a far worse situation than doing a 180 on a policy that hardcore gamers didn't like. People will happily buy an Xbox One come November and beyond...
isarai  +   946d ago
I'm sure it'll sell no problem, just not a mega seller like 360. Even most casual gamers have already heard about the XB1's shitty DRM policy and also already know they dropped it, but this still has done damage and a vast majority still do not want an XB1. MS is a company with very high expectations on many of their products, they can market their ass off and get tons of sheeple to buy shitty products(not saying the XB1 is shitty but you get my drift) but that's only going to work for so long before word of mouth spreads which is still the most powerful marketing tool out there. With these high expectations i think the XB1 is going to fall WELL below those expectations, they're focus just doesn't make sense.

People say it's marketed towards the US, but i live in the US and it sure as hell doesn't seem to appeal to many people here. Most people do not watch TV anymore, they watch netflix, even poor people can stream netflix from their phone, some even to their TV from their phone. People interested in the whole fantasy football thing do it on PC/Laptop, and when on the go do it on their phone which is a lot easier and more efficient than talking to your XB1 to pull it up when all you can do is click one button on your phone and it's their instantly.

I'm sure sales wise it'll be fine, but i don't think it's going to live up to MS' standards is my issue
FrigidDARKNESS  +   946d ago
The same can be said for Sony. A Linux software promused to early buyers of the ps3 then it gets removed. An on line service that gets hacked with millions of customers information getting stolen all because Sony had a weak online infradtructure. Several updates that have disabled folks ps3 . Ylod not covered under warranty. ...
WolfOfDarknesss  +   946d ago
It's Not possible .

I wish if its true though .
vigilante_man  +   946d ago
I do wish MS spent as much time defining their hardware as Sony did during their reveal and also at E3. Sony were brutally honest but MS seem to be dodging bullets.

I have a feeling we won't truly know what is inside both machines until after they launch. And it will take a year or so before developers can truly start to unlock the real potential.
Hemipower2010  +   946d ago
You all know that Sony has a track record of over hyping their specs and under delivering on performance. On paper the PS3 was significantly more powerful than the 360 but games consistently looked better on the Xbox. Everyone on here is acting like we're comparing the PS4 to the GameCube specs. Even the developers are saying the difference between the two is minimal and you won't be able to tell a difference. Oh and for the record I hope the Xbox one crushes the PS4 because I'm tired of all these shit talking, cocky, ignorant Sony fanboys on this site. Can't we just appreciate both consoles for what they are...badass gaming consoles.
boneso82  +   945d ago
"Can't we just appreciate both consoles for what they are"

"for the record I hope the Xbox one crushes the PS4"

Your words, just sayin...
RealtorMDandDC  +   945d ago
Sony has delivered so far this generation. It blows my mind when I hear people say Sony over promise and under deliver.

Sony promise a great gaming experience this generation and they have provided just that. And just as the PS4 arrive they are still providing great exclusive gaming experience..

Microsoft has pretty much abandon the 360 the pass three years....It's more a media box today with more new media components and apps being release than games.
#23.2 (Edited 945d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
cunnilumpkin  +   946d ago
ps4 vs xbox1 will be the exact same as ps3 vs xbox 360

some better on ps4
some better on xbox

pc will destroy them both

it repeats ad nauseum
koolaid251  +   945d ago
No games even use over 4gb of ram!!!
Gamesgbkiller  +   945d ago
Didn't they just say that the power is not important ?
Foxgod  +   945d ago
No, they said they wouldnt target for the highest specs.
If they would think that power isnt important, they would have gone for a console with the power of a WiiU.
boneso82  +   945d ago
"PS4′s allegedly more powerful specs"

Nothing "allegedly" about it...
Foxgod  +   945d ago
Highest specs, yes, but highest specs doesnt mean your console is more powerful.
The architecture in the end, decides the power of your console.

For example, the consoles with their 8 cores and 8 gb unified memory have higher specs then my I7 pc with 4 cores and 8 GB memory devided between 6gb DDr3 and 2GB Gddr5.

However, despite the lower specs, my PC is still more powerful, because its architecture is way stronger.
RealtorMDandDC  +   945d ago
It's interesting how Microsoft is back peddling. The Xbox1 will focus more on everything else except games. Microsoft is using Xbox1 as a Trojan horse. Xbox1 will will be a portal for all other Microsoft's products. There will be a major focus on TV and when there's TV there is Ads.

The article below is an interesting read:
The Xbox1 will Use Kinect To Provide Targeted Advertising

The below article is a very interesting read:
How Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages

I was a fan of Xbox (Xbox ID KMJFNIGUY) but the pass three plus years Microsoft showed me the direction there are heading in. It's about a fight against Google and Apple not Sony and Nintendo.

PS4 day one for me...
Lvl_up_gamer  +   945d ago
You mean like how Sony used the PS3 as a trojan horse to get a blu-ray player into homes?

Companies do what they have to in order to get their hardware into homes to benefit the companies long term goals.

XBOXdayONE for me
RealtorMDandDC  +   944d ago
Look and behold....Xbox1 has a blu-ray player...
Lvl_up_gamer  +   944d ago it looks like my comment hit the nail on the head and it makes perfect sense for a business to push their products into homes in order to reap the long term benefits and long term goals.

XB1 is a good example.

So lets not be short sighted and think its ok only for sony to do it but not ms.
#28.1.2 (Edited 944d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report
xReDeMpTiOnx  +   945d ago

In regards to which console has better looking games.

It was already proven that x1 stuff shown was running on modified dev kits .

And at that simply put not one x1 game or cgi footage looked as good as sony's quantum dream tech demo of dark sorcerer.

And don't give me the whole it won't look like that upon realese or that's not right because Xbox fans did the same thing back for heavy rain and killzone 2 and both times were proven wrong.
Foxgod  +   945d ago
Depends on if its an overclock, or if they end up inserting a gpu core with a higher clock.

If its a core with a high clock, then there is no problem, if its an overclock, then it still might not be a problem because videocards in pc's can also be overclocked to a certain level without voiding the warrenty.

I doubt that MS would overclock it to a risky level.
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