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Submitted by Lavalamp 951d ago | opinion piece

Lightning is Not Cloud

RPGamer: "Recently, Square Enix revealed new pre-order content for the upcoming third game in the Lightning Saga, where Lightning can wear a Cloud Strife costume and equip his Buster Sword. While clearly fanservice, this feels like a sad attempt to put Lightning on the same level as Final Fantasy VII's protagonist. While I am far from Cloud's biggest fan, even I can't deny the impact he has had on RPGs. You mention Cloud and RPGamers instantly know who you are talking about. They quickly remember some of his greatest game moments such as him fighting Sephiroth, holding Aerith as she dies, or performing one of his classic limit breaks with the equally iconic Buster Sword. Cloud became an icon in gaming without even trying. He was in the right game at the right time. Looking back at Final Fantasy XIII it seems like Square Enix has been subtly trying to convince us that Lightning is on the same level as Cloud Strife, but she is far from it." (Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII, PS3, Xbox 360)

Mr_Nuts  +   951d ago desperate

Exploit an old game to try and sell a new one the majority of people hate.

Lightning is like they tried to fuse Cloud and Squall together to make the most awesome character in FF but totally forgot about their backstories and character development which makes them so likable, interesting and cool.

Lightning ended up being a whiny, moany, b*****, annoying character in the game and the only reason why she ended up not being that bad is because she was surrounded with characters worse then her

I mean the only people who like her is 1) Die hard FF fans, 2) Females who see her as this great character but really it's just because of her gender and 3) People new to gaming or FF this gen and have probably never played the old ones
#1 (Edited 951d ago ) | Agree(26) | Disagree(24) | Report | Reply
myrddincrow   951d ago | Spam
Blacklash93  +   951d ago
"Exploit an old game to try and sell a new one the majority of people hate."

Is anyone honestly going to get LR for a costume? This isn't the first time SE has done something like this. It's a JRPG pre-order bonus, of course it's fanservice.

People have many valid criticisms about XIII and it definitely was not a good FF game, but people are just looking for excuses to ***** at this point. A pre-order outfit, really?

I never thought Cloud was a much better than Lightning in terms of character so overuse is only about as offensive at that. But then again, I come from the perspective that VI is the only one that had a truly exceptional story. FF shifted awkward melodrama after that as far as I'm concerned.

"I mean the only people who like her is 1) Die hard FF fans, 2) Females who see her as this great character but really it's just because of her gender and 3) People new to gaming or FF this gen and have probably never played the old ones"

Any evidence for that? I hope you have more data than a few anecdotal accounts visiting message boards.

I think her character design is cool and I like her personality (other than the melodrama every one in XIII suffers with, and it's not as bad with her). Though yeah I know she's has no interesting backstory and thus isn't a deep character by any means. I'm not head over heels for her, but she's better than several other FF protagonists.
#1.2 (Edited 951d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
Mr_Nuts  +   951d ago
*** Any evidence for that? I hope you have more data than a few anecdotal accounts visiting message boards. ***

Three years since it's came out...plenty of time to look around the internet and even hear peoples opinions in person. You come across the same people so yeah I have a lot more then just some stuff I've read of message boards.

Look mate if you like her fine but don't try and make out she's secretly awesome when she isn't. Your clutching for straws at this point.
Blacklash93  +   951d ago
Your categories are diehard FF fans, females, people new to FF. What about the (many) diehard FF fans who hate her guts? I've heard from a few female gamers myself who think she's overhyped and shallow. And it doesn't take a FF veteran to recognize uncompelling characters in XIII. What about the horndogs who obsess over her? What about the people who enjoyed XIII? What about women who genuinely appretiate her character? It's not really productive or even really respectful to categorize people like that in such a subjective issue.

Never said I thought she was a great character, in fact I implied quite diffentely. I don't really care for her that much. Like I said, comparing her to other FF protagonists (especailly after the move to 3D) is mostly a pretty low bar as far as I'm concerned. She's simply tolerable for me as a character.

She's got style to carry her iconic status, and in my opinion that what must have been the same case for Clould and Squall and some others. Because I personally cannot fathom liking those characters for their personalities.
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kayoss  +   951d ago
Mr_Nuts have a point, you dont need data or facts to know that Final Fantasy 13 series was probably the least liked FF game from square enix. You have consensus from the internet, actual people who gave their opinions about the game and the Majority of the opinions about the game are negative. Of course there are a handful of people who like the game but the majority of FF fans dont like the game. It seems like Square Enix at this point is trying to get the non fans of ff13 to buy this game.

I had high hope for FF13 but was dissappointed, I gave FF13-2 the benefit of the doubt and was once again dissappointed. I think i will be skipping on FF13-3 until people convince me that this game is better then the others.
Tdmd  +   951d ago
"I think her character design is cool and I like her personality..."

I also like her design (in XIII only), but huh... what personality?!
GeisT  +   951d ago
I thought Lightning was pretty cool. At least she doesn't wear a bandanna around her neck,call herself Hope, and whine about her mommy.

I love it when games incorporate nuances from other franchises or things from previous titles. That Mass Effect crossover art with FF characters was sweet. This is one of those characters that doesn't deserve the hate.
Gabnet  +   951d ago
I agree with everything you just said. Excluding the exploitation part.
#1.3 (Edited 951d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
iamtehpwn  +   951d ago
"Exploit an old game to try and sell a new one the majority of people hate. "

You have to be insane to think anyone who wasn't gonna buy Lightning Returns or hates the XIII trilogy will buy this game because there is a Cloud costume...Get real.

Though, for those who are, it's a nice costume. And Can we be a bit more reasonable and think that if the game IS like X-2 in that each costume contains a job I don't see why they wouldn't include some Final Fantasty Nostalgia? That would only make sense to me.
Godmars290  +   951d ago
In FF13 she was a junior grade patrolwoman for the local security/police forces who had a chip on her shoulder just to have one before finding out her baby sister wanted to marry the town idiot, and from there was pulled into a series of events she never seemed to even try to take control of along with a bunch of strangers she somehow bonded to off-screen. Is called that game's central hero though no real evidence suggests such.

By FF13-2, despite her one possibly detectible anti-religious trait, she becomes second only to the comatose god of her world and charges her sister - who neither showed nor was given any opportunity to show she could punch out of a wet paper-bag much less wield a sword or shoot a bow, both of which were a further multitasking moofle - and some kid from the future who was likely Fang's male design to do...something involving time travel which doesn't really solve or "finalize" anything.

Now in FF13-3, she's Moses with the power of Jesus who's going to pull an End of Days taking the chosen to the New World.

And to further turn the knife in the gut of former fans who know what wtf "final" in Final Fantasy is suppose to mean, the wannabe new forced mascot/icon can be dressed up an outfit associated with the most well known mascot/icon.

Honestly, from what I've seen of the game mechanics I wanted, really wanted to consider this game. Now, knowing that Square is more than willing to stoop to such levels of exploitation, I never want to touch another of their titles. That includes ghost murder mystery coming up as well as FF15. The lack of value in story and story telling is that bad.
#2 (Edited 951d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(6) | Report | Reply
Hicken  +   951d ago
I was gonna go through and debate against you, point for point, but it'd be a waste of time. You seriously just want to hate everything SE is doing right now, so explaining how wrong you are about even one thing would fall on deaf ears.
elda  +   951d ago
@Hicken great comment,I just don't see the extreme hate on FF-XIII especially if you're a fan of the series,there are some FF games I've played that were impressionable & some were not but I enjoyed playing them except the 2 MMO's.
MrSwankSinatra  +   951d ago
fans: we want a FF7 remake!!

square: but that takes time and money to make

fans: well no shit doesn't every game take time an money!1

square: BUT BUT BUT.....

fans: we want a FF7 remake!!

square: we got the next best thing you can dress as cloud in LR: FFXIII

fans: -_-
myrddincrow   951d ago | Spam
CrossingEden  +   951d ago
game companies:but all you guys do is ask for remakes
fsfsxii  +   951d ago
Why do you like to whine about everything??
Snookies12  +   951d ago
They simply can't do it. A remake with the scale of FFVII would take 5+ years even with early current gen console graphics.

It would be an ENORMOUS investment, and sure they'd probably make profit off it considering the popularity of VII. Though not enough to justify remaking the game. I say do a handheld remake or a console one with Crisis Core type graphics. That way, it could be done without nearly as much effort and would be a satisfying step up from FFVII's current form which (let's face it) is rather ugly in most cases.
Hicken  +   951d ago
Frankly, I'm immensely impressed by your comments here.

You are absolutely right that most people didn't give the game a chance, and instead rode the hatred, which made them like the game less than they could have. I can't say it's my favorite FF, either(I don't know if a game missing Uematsu's music will ever be able to be my favorite), but there's definitely more good than bad. Not necessarily the best example of an FF, but still a good game in its own right. Unfortunately, few wanted to think of it in its own right.

And yes, remaking VII would be a ridiculously long and expensive undertaking. NOBODY would be satisfied, certain scenes would have to be altered(Red passing off as a human, for example), and it isn't a guarantee to be worth it. People would still be pissed even if they met folks halfway and did a handheld remake, and no matter how good it was, they'd disregard it.
VileAndVicious  +   951d ago
Exactly Snookies,
I think a FFVII remake is possible just needs to be scaled back a bit graphics wise. Hell I think they could even look a cut above PSP graphics. I think the big problem for square has largely to do with how they make their games and the amount of time they invest in them visually.

Infact I believe this is true of most development companies today. If square were to use smaller teams Im pretty sure three things would happen.

1. Development time would be much faster than it currently is for them.

2. We would see more original IPs (and the return of some old classics) as the risk to create them would be lower.

3. Finally the cost to develop would surely decrease which ties back into number 2.

Of course there are "fans" out there I think that would be extremely upset if a VII remake (or ANY FF for that matter) didnt blow them away visually. But I think Id prefer an updated FFVII with "improved" graphics (and story because it could use some tweaks as well). But as Hicken says most probably wouldnt be satisfied with this they wait and will continue to do so.
kayoss  +   951d ago
What you mean "...People didnt give the game a chance."? You know how many copies of FF13 and FF13-2 were sold? FF13 have sold almost 5 million copies to date and FF13-2 has currently sold about 3 million copies to date. People gave these two games a chance and the majority of the consensus of both games are negative. I praise you that you liked the game but you are just in the minorities.
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KarateExplosion  +   951d ago
I don't get it. All the great characters created in the FF universe... AND Lightning is who they chose to keep making games for. Didn't they learn their lesson with Yuna?
CrossingEden  +   951d ago
you do realize that this sub series is extremely popular in japan, with lightning even being japan's favorite character right now, the loud minority of manchildren complaining about not gettings their remacez don't faze square, especially when this series has sold 9.7 million copies so far and they wanted this trilogy sub series to sell 10 million copies
DragonKnight  +   951d ago
You do realize that Final Fantasy is a globally popular game and that World > Japan right?

I tire of these companies with so narrow a focus.
Godmars290  +   951d ago
No. Fewer people bought FF13 and its sequel. Most bought then returned it.

And for FFS: are you honestly trying to count 13 and 13-2 together? ignoring that 13-2 sold less than 13? That's just weak.
Snookies12  +   951d ago
Yuna wasn't bad until they turned her into a singer/dancer/a completely different person.
Gamesgbkiller  +   951d ago
Cloud is not Zack.
Snookies12  +   951d ago
Lightning is also not Cloud. Yet both Cloud and Lightning wear Zack's uniform lol.
kratoz1209  +   951d ago
Wow that is an insult, and they also have put Final Fantasy 13 dlc in 14
Snookies12  +   951d ago
They didn't put 13 DLC in 14... They put fan service of 13 in 14. They'd already said they'd be putting ALL Final Fantasy games in 14. So even if you don't like 13, it's still a Final Fantasy and has every right to be in there as the other games.

It was also because of a joke. The 13-3 producer put in a Miqo'te costume for Lightning and didn't tell the 14 producer. So the 14 producer put Lightning into 14 as a sort of revenge for that. They were just having fun with one another.
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rezzah  +   951d ago
When they created her they wanted her to be the female version of Cloud.

Even so, I still see this DLC move as a method to get more sales of the love for Cloud.
Summons75  +   951d ago
Yeah she's got more character depth then cloud. Although she isn't close to coming to my top ff characters, I liked her a lot more than I ever did Cloud. Terra, Squall, Zindane, Shadow, Mog still hold my top 5. Lets see if noctis can get in there.
Snookies12  +   951d ago
Loved Shadow, even though on my first play through I didn't realize you could save him on the floating continent. :\
#8.1 (Edited 951d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
JackVagina  +   951d ago
Get over it
Benjammin25  +   951d ago
I'd still do her, but I'd probably suffocate her with a pillow afterwards so I wouldn't have to listen to her moan about everything. But apart from looks, I never thought she had much to offer as a character.
raiden-49  +   951d ago
you should try to tone down your comments....alot
kayoss  +   951d ago
Easy there buddy. What makes you think she would even consider "doing" you in the first place? I dont think your right hand even "do" you. So you can take your wet (and disturbing) dream to another appropriate site.
Hicken  +   948d ago
As a response to your other comment- but so that you actually GET that I responded:

Buying it isn't inherently giving it a chance. If people went in thinking "This game is gonna suck," or "I want it to be like so," then they didn't give the game a chance.

LOTS of people didn't give the game a chance.

They wanted the game to be something it never told them it would be, and then they were disappointed that it wasn't that. And instead of saying, "Okay, well, what IS this game trying to do?" they gave up and labeled it as crap.

Then, other people who never even played the game heard about how it WASN'T this other stuff, and THEY started calling it crap.

XIII-2 comes out- cut content, essentially- with fixes for everything people said wasn't there in the first game. Too bad: "It sucks. Haven't played it yet, but it's gonna suck, just like XIII did. Nobody liked the first game, and nobody likes XIII-2, either. Just more of the same."

And now the same thing happens with LR. People who haven't played the first, let alone the second, are all onboard to bash the third, using false arguments from people who didn't even grasp the first game's intentions anyway.

Are there legitimate gripes with XIII? Yes. The story was told a bit too much inside the menu, rather than through playing. I get it, since expanding the game to include all that would ruin the frenetic pace and sense of urgency you feel for most of the story. I would have liked to have played all that out, rather than reading it, but I understand the decision. I also would have preferred more of Gran Pulse to be opened up when you get there, or at least after beating the game once, or something. What they chose to open up was more like a tease than anything.

You get the picture.

Again, the point is that, even though a decent number bought the game, they never let go of their preconceptions, and condemned it for what it WASN'T, never even noticing what it WAS.
Agent_hitman  +   951d ago
Cloud costume?!, meh!.... They should choose TIFA costume instead, Lightning looks like lesbian in that suit.
bisejazuhu   951d ago | Spam
sephiroth420  +   951d ago
lightning is cooler than cloud, in much shitter games than cloud, but cloud was a little biatch, zak was cool too, i kinda like this dlc for lightning, why are people so mad about it? and to those people like please square enix, just no, fuck you buddy, the game and its dlc is for everyone not just you.
rextraordinaire  +   951d ago
Hey it's not like they're saying "Lightning and cloud IS THE SAME PERSON FROM THE SAME GAME".

It's a dress-up toy that they include with a limited amount of copies. Plenty of companies do it. You could dress as Kos-Mos in SoulCalibur III, and no XenoSaga fan flipped mad about it. Cloud appears in Tactics and that's fine with everyone, even if it's not the same universe or whatever. Cloud appears side by side with GOOFY and MICKEY MOUSE, for christ sake, if THAT'S not blasphemy...

Those are just clothes (And digital ones...) and fictional characters.

Seriously, some kids that started playing with FFVII really feel wayyyy too entitled to that game. It's a great game, sure, but all Final Fantasy games are great in their own way. Even X-2, XIII-2, and Mystic Quest. And costumes, costumes are nice. Cloud costumes are nice.
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DragonKnight  +   951d ago
You realize your examples aren't even remotely the same right?

"You could dress as Kos-Mos in SoulCalibur III, and no XenoSaga fan flipped mad about it."

That's because you could effectively make KOS-MOS in the game. It wasn't associating Soul Calibur 3 with XenoSaga, or associating an iconic XenoSaga character with another character that a large group of people hate.

"Cloud appears in Tactics and that's fine with everyone, even if it's not the same universe or whatever."

Because it IS Cloud. It's not Ramza portrayed as Cloud. You can even go the whole game without ever getting Cloud or even knowing he is in the game.

"Cloud appears side by side with GOOFY and MICKEY MOUSE, for christ sake, if THAT'S not blasphemy.."

Again, it's still Cloud. Not Sora as Cloud, but Cloud himself.

The reason people are upset by this is because Lightning is a terrible character that SE is trying to make into the new Cloud and many find that to be insulting as well as ignoring Cloud's contribution to making Final Fantasy a globally popular game.
rextraordinaire  +   951d ago
I don't see how making a Cloud costume is "ignoring" the contribution of the character. I see it more as a kind of hommage and fan service.

And Lightning is not a terrible character at all. Because Final Fantasy XIII was not the best from the series doesn't make it an awful game. There are shades of grey between black and white, you know?
VileAndVicious  +   951d ago
I get where your coming from.
But I wouldn't exactly call Lightning a terrible character, she IS a bit bland though.

And I don't know I don't really mind the costume so much personally.
DragonKnight  +   951d ago
@rlacorne: It's the fact that Cloud was the mascot of FF and the only way Square-Enix can successfully attempt at making Lightning the new mascot is by leeching off Cloud's "fame" for lack of a better word. Their are shades of grey, and FFXIII is the darkest shade of grey there is. It is a terrible game because it's not Final Fantasy. It sought out to rip control out of the player's hands and has the worst cast of characters in the entire series. When the absolute best thing you can say about the game is that it looks pretty and some of the music is good, then you have a bad game.

Unless you're a fan of a linear RPG in which you only control 1 character at any given time and your levelling is directly tied to your story progression. A story better told in data logs than in actual gameplay moments. Gameplay designed to make you do as little work as possible. Yeah, what a great game.

@Vile: Compare Lightning to the entirety of even lead characters across FF. She's a terrible character. Bland isn't good now is it? I hate Cloud myself, but even he had more moments of genuine personality than Lightning.
elda  +   951d ago
I like the FF-XIII character Lightning,I agree that Lightning is no Cloud but she's no slouch either,her design is pretty & a bad ass!! There are several memorable female FF characters but imo Lightning is in a league of her own which is not a bad thing.
#15 (Edited 951d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
SeraphimBlade  +   951d ago
True. Cloud looks way better in a dress
kydrice  +   951d ago
I honestly don't mind but I just wished she'd wear his Advent Children outfit modified to a more feminine look.
Carlthepet  +   945d ago
I don't understand why youre always saying Lightning is whiney, moany, and has no back story. I don't recall her ever being whiney. As for moaning, no one can even compare to Vanille. No back story? Being left to raise her young sister after loosing both her parents, feeling a need to become stronger than she was in order to protect the only living person she loves. Developing trust issues that she comes off as a stone cold bitch but in reality, a little piece of that scared little girl remains. Whiney? She was the only one who didn't whine. I get seriously pissed when people say she is an awful character. Pay attention and you may see what I see.

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