Xbox Product Planning boss has clarified his earlier comment about how PS4 and Xbox One hardware specs comparisons are meaningless.
"Nobody knows the specifics of how the machines are architected or if there may be bottlenecks in one system or accelerators in another that change the impact of the published specs" ha ha! cute Sony actually did publish detailed specifics, and Cerny did many breakdowns and had various detailed interviews about how the architecture works, N4G is getting spammed by all the detail from just one Cerny lecture. in the other hand MS goes "billion transistors" and "infinite power of the cloud" ---- "And while you guys joke about the cloud stuff, I think the stuff the Respawn guys have said starts to clear up what we’ve been talking about with cloud performance" yes Respawn finally gave use details about "the cloud", they confirmed what everyone was saying, "dedicated servers" nothing more. ---- “Games on both systems looked awesome. I was there, and while I know RISE took a hit on the gameplay that was shown, I thought it was the most next-gen looking game I saw on either platform. Of course, I get I’m biased" yes you are biased, KillZone, InFAMOUS, the Order and Destiny make Ryse look like a Wii game, and they good looking thin was the armor everything else was bland.
Details on specs will only give you a forecast, allows you to make predictions.
Just like when new video cards are announced, people make predictions on how they might perform compared to the older ones.
However, the actual field tests (benchmarks) is the only reliable way to tell how the hardware stacks up.
So in the end, predictions are not set in stone, and we seen that last generation.
So Ms is right that nobody knows (yet) how they will perform.
Both consoles may be x64/x86, but they have enough differences to make it difficult to predict how well both will perform compared to each other.
Bubble sir, it seems a thing of rarity these days to hear a fair and intelligent comment on N4G.
What a ridiculous thing to say, and its obvious that you've never been a PC gamer to even say something like that. There is a quantifiable difference between a GTX 660 and a GTX 680. It is measurable and apparent in EVERY game, from FPS to how high you can crank up AA and post filtering. Just like there is a distinct difference between the 7790 and the 7850/90 (PS4 GPU is between those two base on ROP and cycle count). Based on the GPUs used in each respectable APU, there will be a noticeable visual disparity DAY ONE, to people who care about those things.
Yep, we have some GFLOPs, memory throughoutput details but we dont know how _exactly_ it translates to actual rendering capabilities in both consoles. Im leaning towards PS4 now but will give final verdict when i see actual games running. @bicfitness Sure but consoles are based on custom, modified chips. Comparison is not THAT simple
The point is where Sony is supporting what they say with more details and technical presentations, MS is only saying/promising things while providing no examples whatsoever. That in and of itself isn't much, until you look at MS's history into gaming. They've twice had the system with superior specs, boasted about it, and then did little to nothing with them. Focused and generally left support to 3rd parties. Meanwhile Sony has both outsold and out preformed them. But really the issue is that MS needs to show commitment, and they haven't.
Digital Foundry and Anandtech has verified that PS4 is significantly more powerful. Xbox fans only argues scientific facts. And if specs didnt matter, they should have stuck with 360. Seems like xbox fanboys are desperately trying to push this through.
could this pr nightmare get any worse for Micro$oft?
don't forget "rocket science stuff"
"specs will only give you a forecast" A forecast of what? Specs? Stop pretending like 50% more raw graphical power is highly interpretable. How did you get a "well said" despite so many disagrees and a positively ridiculous comment of obvious stealth trolling? Only in the most depraved of fanboy fairy tales will 50% more graphical power be insignificant.
I agree, bubbles for an objective view. Very well put. Its a rare thing on this site...
@Foxgod benchmarks works by using constant compatible software to compare different hardware, that doesn't work on consoles because games need to be specifically fited to each and then would no longer be "consistent compatible". for PC benchmarks are basing on games that are backwards/forward compatible between a wide range of video cards.
Xbot mentality will tell you that you can remove several GB's of ram from your system, throttle it's bandwidth down to more than twice as slow, and then put in a GPU with 384 fewer shader cores, and you will only get a difference in performance that only exists "on paper". I don't think I've ever seen such a delusional bunch in my life. I guess it makes sense, since very few of these people actually know what the hell they are talking about. They just take whatever PR babble they are fed hook, line, and sinker, and run with it. Anyone with any experience in computer technology will know that you most definitely WILL have a performance advantage given those spec differences no matter how you try to slice it. If Microsoft really did have a magic customization that made their system faster than the PS4, you can bet your ass they'd be screaming it from the rooftops. Instead we just get vague "it could be this way, or that way, we'll just have to see" comments from their PR people, and the fanboys eat it up.
@newmonday "yes Respawn finally gave use details about "the cloud", they confirmed what everyone was saying, "dedicated servers" nothing more." Nice way to downplay dedicated servers as if thats not important for multiplayer games... I do want to quote something from one of Respawns founders from a game informer magazine. McCoy says "It allows us to have a few dozen AI running around doing all the cool things that they are doing. It handles all the complex physics calculations we're doing, and allows for quicker more accurate matchmaking. This game wouldn't be possible without it. We wouldn't have even attempted to do it." @Godmars290 "They've twice had the system with superior specs, boasted about it, and then did little to nothing with them. Focused and generally left support to 3rd parties. Meanwhile Sony has both outsold and out preformed them." Twice? I distinctly remember the PS3 being more powerful than the 360. No argument about their preference of third party party games though. @GameNameFame "Xbox fans only argues scientific facts." I just have to ask... is there any other kind of fact? @SilentNegotiator "A forecast of what? Specs? Stop pretending like 50% more raw graphical power is highly interpretable. How did you get a "well said" despite so many disagrees and a positively ridiculous comment of obvious stealth trolling? Only in the most depraved of fanboy fairy tales will 50% more graphical power be insignificant." I dont think you fully understood what he was trying to say. Of course specs matter, but theoretical paper specs hardly ever translate into real world performance. That 50% may actually translate into more like 30-40%. However the same "specs hardly ever translate into real world performance" applies to the Xbox One as well. lol. Yeah, like N4G disagrees mean anything. I cant tell you the number of times I have seen someone post a 100% truthful fact and it gets disagrees. You should learn to take agrees or disagrees here on N4G with a grain of salt. Only in the most depraved of fanboy fairy tales will 50% more graphical power be taken as a 100% proven fact on unreleased, non benchmarkable hardware.
Spin it however you'd like, 50% will translate as a very significant difference, which is what foxgod is trying to convince himself will not happen.
@SilentNegotiator "Spin it however you'd like, 50% will translate as a very significant difference, which is what foxgod is trying to convince himself will not happen." I didnt spin anything. I clearly stated the fact that theoretical specs don't match real world performance. I even said, even though it's quite obvious, that this applies to the Xbox One as well. Yes, Im 100% certain the PS4 will be more powerful. How much more powerful it will actually be remains to be seen.
Did you think about that before typing, or just decided to keep rambling?
I take it that you don't visit NeoGAF very much? http://majornelson.com/2005... I guess they will boast when it seems beneficial to them. Btw, Thank you Diablo Rosso for what should have been a "first comment" Would have truly set GAF on fire, like a... ahh, nevermind. :)
a bubble for FOXGOD!!!
@markus "Yes, Im 100% certain the PS4 will be more powerful. How much more powerful it will actually be remains to be seen. " Actually you are trying to make it seem as if the difference is smaller than 50% with your comments. That IS spinning. We all know that on paper the difference is 50% but what makes you think that the theoretical max is further away from the truth on PS4? This is what you are trying to say with you "That 50% may actually translate into more like 30-40%." and that's just pure BS on your part. Biased BS no less. And no newmonday wasn't downplaying dedicated servers. Had you actually used your brain while reading you would've realized that wasn't the topic at all while he said what he said.
"yes you are biased, KillZone, InFAMOUS, the Order and Destiny make Ryse look like a Wii game" You want counter arguments to B.S comments like that? I'm sorry but come up with a mature and worthwhile point if you want a decent rebuttal. You need to grow up. The chap offered his honest opinion, biased or not and fanboys just made mountains out of molehills. Ryse looked incredible, even if the gameplay was, rightfully, criticized. And he even acknowledged that in his comment!!
anyone who thought Ryse looked like a Wii game is purely stupid, or requires an immediate appointment at the opticians. Anyone not blurting their load over anything relating to Sony on this site are shot down in flames. It is a sad state of affairs and I for one will continue to give balanced arguments albeit at the risk of never having any bubbles. I'll get over it...
This guy obviously didn't see games like The Division, Destiny, Infamous Second Son, or Killzone running on actual PS4 dev kits, unlike Microsoft's cloak and dagger shiftiness with their games running off high end pc's whose specs are vastly superior to what the Xbox One will actually be capable of. Talk about delusional.
@Septic can you show what looks good in Ryse other than the shiny armor? like maybe NPC animation? beautiful detailed environments? color palette? no? didn't think so
@new Yeah great post there. Ask me a question and then you answer yourself in the same post? What a juvenile way to desperately try and make your point whilst clinging on to whatever little integrity you have. Ryse not only had amazingly detailed charachters, it had a whole WEALTH of them on screen with massive ships, water, fireballs, fortresses all at once: http://www.youtube.com/watc... Compare this to Infamous Second Son: http://www.youtube.com/watc... If I was being as biased as you, I'd tell you to go to 2:04 and point at what looked next-gen there? All you see is shiny armour? You need to get your eyes tested then mate.
Ryse looked very Blah to me. The character model was generic and uninspired (although detailed) and moved like the tin man...very stiff and jerky motion....wasn't that impressive at all. Just looks like they borrowed the idea from some cable special about the Spartans and borrowed poorly in regards to motion cap.
30 FPS...is still 30 FPS...with dips below it. Remember Ryse has been in production what seems like almost as long as Half Life 2 was.
how are you going to compare a QTE game (Ryse} to an actual full freedom open game like Infamous Second Son. You really thought that Ryse demo was impressive? The characters move like tanks, the gameplay is slow and sluggish, qte after qte, uninspired boring enemies, with the AI of a 3 year old. GOD war plays way better than this, and it had QTEs aswell, but they are executed perfectly, Ryse feels like your driving a tank. lame comparison bro
Ryse wasnt even running on an xbone
300k dedicated servers are still better than nothing. just sayin'
If they are virtual servers (most likely as Microsoft refuse to deny this when asked), it means a lot less. You could set up 300k virtual servers off of a single hardware server (they'd be piss-poor weak, and virtually unusable).
@Angeljuice "If they are virtual servers (most likely as Microsoft refuse to deny this when asked), it means a lot less." Yes and no. Depending on the virtualization, specs and dedicated bandwidth for each virtual server the difference may be negligible. "You could set up 300k virtual servers off of a single hardware server (they'd be piss-poor weak, and virtually unusable)." True. I highly doubt Microsoft would do that, but if they did it would great for some laughs.
Oh kanzes teh clowd....
Biased would be crowning one the victor over the other before the systems launch and we have seen the retail games. Even then it will take time to see which console has less limitations. As for Cerny, he is marketing the console he designed for Sony. I have learned over the past few decades that people who market an item tend to tell you what you want to hear. Both Sony and Microsoft are painting a vision of what they see is to come.
Cerny's press conference was full of facts, technical specs, performance evaluations, etc. Microsoft hasn't even released the majority of it's technical specs, much less talked about it. Regardless of the power difference, if I'm going to spend money, I am much more comfortable doing so for a company that isn't afraid to tell us what we are buying. To be clear, I'll probably buy both, but ps4 is day one, xbone is definitely not.
You aren't buying tech specs. The original PSP was marketed by Sony as having the power of a PS2 in your hands. http://blogs.guardian.co.uk...
Reality told a different story. The PSP was by far the most capable piece of handheld hardware when it released, but the "tech specs" were not indicitive of real world applications. Sony has never been afraid of revelaing their tech specs, but their real world specs always fell short of the claims.
Personally, I would rather see the games then the specs. Specs are almost pointless if the games don't reflect what they are capable of. To an extent, the middleware used to create games has a much bigger impact then what the "metal" can theoretically do.
@Death Besides saying "real world specs" when you meant "real world performance", Well said.
I have to agree with you about one thing, they were extremely vague and literally said "transistors" and "caps" so many god damn times it wasn't even funny. They knew that most the people watching that don't even understand what half of that means wouldn't know any better. Rocket Science level transistors and caps.. Ok that is great but how about explain what they do, how they are going to improve gaming, how it will improve the Xbox One in general. Not just saying how great these news transistors and caps are over and over.. While throwing the word Rocket Science in every now and then.
This guy's "clarification" was actually more PR lies from Microsoft. Sony DID, in great detail, via Mark Cerny, describe PS4 innards. Microsoft hasn't and will not. It used Digital Foundry the order day to put out more fluster because it knows Xbox One is inferior to PS4. Microsoft, thou hast failed.
I agree the whole cloud shit is pointless as it all it does is having a good server really it doesn't power up that shitty X1 and the only game I saw that looked next gen on x1 is forza 5 everything else Medcore wich I find it funny that he saying ryse looks next gen hell god of war 3 and the newer god A. Look 100x better in everything even the first uncharted looks a lot better. Xbox fanboys just accept PS4 is more powerful and more future proof console and where gamers should be if u luv games and not the cable box that is weaker and ugly as f..ck. And like Sony says greatness awaits in ps4 failer awaits in cable box truth to be told.
i wouldnt agree with the first uncharted looked better maybe uncharted 2 but uc3 and tlou def do they rnt just red and brown with shiny elements
hilarious that some ppl think the 5 billion transistors are in the hardware, what they dont know is that its in the cloud and we need a good internet connection.
Dude what ur trying to say is pointless cause I already know cloud is good 4 connection. u didn't get what I was trying to say maybe pay more attention to what I'm saying cause what I was saying is that the shit load x1 is not getting more powerful with the cloud it's BS it's weaker then PS4 and that's that. Really people r so freaking brain dead with not understanding what they r reading before writing anything. Learn to understand people's writing comments dumb Xboxfanboy.
Actually the 5 billion transistors are on the API which means it will run very hot.
Since I am a Sony/MS whore. I am getting both no matter what, so I could care less about who's more powerful than whom. Titan Fall, Killer Instinct, KillZone 4, and Second Son will all be in my library without console predjudice. I pledge allegiance to no one, but the American flag
It doesn't matter who you pledge to, NSA Kinect 2 will spy on you just in case.
good for you (not sarcasm) if you have the money but i expect your JUAN to collect dust after a little while (if it hasnt already overheated) js bc the multiplats have exclusive dlc on ps and more ips on ps
Although my money is on the PS4 being more "powerful" in the end the guy did raise some good points. No one knows how the GDDR5 (while being faster than DDR3)will be used and is also higher latency than DDR3. So there is one factor to think about it. It could go either way in terms of performance. The X1 is a mixed bag. They supposedly are getting better numbers than expected out of the system due to the extra 32megs of ESRAM. But no one know if this will be used effectively or not. Also they have 4 "Move engines" and no one is certain how these will pan out. Also does the new Xbox have an Ana chip? Will hardware tiling make a difference? (this is a HUGE deal if it works as advertised!) Will the PS4s raw power and more straightforward architecture make it the clear and easy winner? The author is right. We simply don't know at this point.
Have you seen games like infamous, killzone and destiny all running on the ps4 there didn't seem to be any bottlenecks displayed in any of those games... Further more 1 of those 3 is a launch game and it looks better than 90% of the other next generation games shown across both platforms that was running on actual hardware... Battlefield 4 was the most impressive being that again, EA showed the game off running on PC. People need to stop talking about bottlenecks and latancy issues regarding GDDR5 verses DDR3 Memory, in PCs they are both present one allocated to CPU and the other to GPU, This is a console development platform and used under heavily customized architecture in a single pool of Ram. So general coding and processes used in a PC simply won't work in this environment... The words of someone who developed and architect a console has far more legitimacy than a Guy who is simply just a PR for the product. And I'm certainly more inclined to take the words of an architect over some random person firing off about technology that he doesn't fully understand. Lets just let the games talk, one company talked about specs and gave several dissertations regarding said the Capabilities, the other danced around, and tossed out scraps and sensationalized zingers to come off as comparable to the general public. The game of ambiguity. 5 billion transistors, rocket science and power of cloud are all that's being trumpeted by the other company.
first we should know that rendering is capped by the GPU, but the behavior of the objects in the render(NPCs/cars/walls/trees/w ater..) depend on the RAM, one thing that depends on both GPU and RAM are the texture details. so off the top of my head.. - GDDR5 will give better textures because it can load a big chunk of data and at a very high speed - faster loading - more destruction - more NPCs with better AI - weather/light/shadow effects
I'm not sure about "heavily customized architecture". Both consoles are PC based and the customization is done to lower cost, not increase performance. If a combo CPU/GPU design was better, PC's would already be doing it. IF GDDR5 was better for CPU and GPU functions, PC's would be doing it already. Both the PS4 and Xbox One are making compromises to fit as much tech in a small plastic box as possible.
Mark Cerny is indeed incredibly talented and a veteran in the industry. He has worn many hats during his long career from developer, designer, producer and consultant. From what I have seen, this is his first time as a "lead architect" on a platform. AMD is the designer of both consoles CPU/GPU though. I'm not sure I would give him too much credit as far the actual architecture goes since most of both was contracted out to AMD. Both companies had the same challenge in deciding what type of ram to use on a combined chip and what affect that has on programming.
@newmonday - 'MS goes "billion transistors" and "infinite power of the cloud"', what utter bull. Cloud is not infinite, thats just bull.
newmonday. your comment was sensible until you said ryse looked like a wii u game. gtfo. ryse looked incredible gfx wise. even some of the little details like the way the sail ripped (realistically) the smoke from the lobbed thing on fire lol and when he runs up the stairs. the light reflects off of one wall on to another, the brightens his armor on that side. come on, i know n4g is full of idiotic fanboys (just look at your agrees) but to say that ryse did not look incredible is blatant fanboyism. ok, i aint talking about the qte gamelplay either
I said the games I mentioned "make it look" in comparison, not outright Ryse looks like a Wii game. look at some clips from Witcher 2 on the 360 and compare them to Ryse, tell me what looks best. I mentioned the only good thing about the graphics and its the armor, take them away and what do you see? the water and fire effects are nothing you cant find this generation.
you're talking rubbish and you know it. for a launch title on a new console, ryse looked incredible. look at forza as well witcher 2 xbox 360 http://www.youtube.com/watc... ryse http://www.youtube.com/watc... there you go a comparison of the games you said... there is no comparison, ryse destroys in the gfx department
@Newmonday Are you some sort of special retard? Why would you compare the Xbox 360 version of Witcher 2 to Ryse on the Xbox One? Heck, Ryse looks better then Witcher 3 for God's sake, and Witcher 3 looks stunning graphically...what's wrong with you?
More examples of Microsoft back peddling after putting their proverbial foot in the mouth. I understand MS is trying to rebuild their image after the PR nightmare they have suffered these last several months, but it seems their "damage control" gameplay is doing more harm than good. The last thing MS should be doing right now is making ridiculously negative comments against either Sony or Nintendo. It just makes them come off sounding petty.
reminds me of how 7 years ago back in 2006 SONY had said the RSX or Reality Synthesizer was so Powerful it could free up space to run other tasks in Parallel.
Well said except the bit about Ryse. All of those games you mentioned look amazing (except The Order..even if the models are in-game, until I see in-game gameplay being rendered, there's always a chance it will fall behind expectations), but Ryse was easily the most impressive looking Xbox One game out there, on par with Killzone (maybe) and probably better looking then Destiny and Infamous. Destiny's multi-platform anyway, so you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot by mentioning it. I am of course purely talking about the resolution of the Roman's soldier's armour in Ryse. Eveything else looks, well...and I'm not even going to start on the actual gameplay...
You were correct until your last statement, I can kind of understand you saying that Killzone looked good, but infamous and the order do not look better than Ryse. Take your fanboy glasses off on that one.
I was gonna say, the specs were made pretty clear early on and I'm pretty sure it was established that the PS4 and Xbox One are not level in power, though somewhat similar in architecture. The PS4 is the more capable system; I really don't think there's shame in saying that. All Microsoft's "cold shoulder" approach is doing is bringing more attention to it and giving the fans something to call them out on. Microsoft... just fire your PR team. For your own sake.
Yeah I agree. Best looking game XOBE ONE EXCLUSIVE PMSL PS4 does cloud too.
@Mystogan Don't Make Me Call Natsu Or Elza To Put You On Your Place
Yet another "clarification". WTF Microsoft!? Sony could sit on their hands and win this war!
^^ This is how some people view gaming? Yeah a clarification is a bad thing now? It's all about games right? Oh no wait its not, it's about politicising the medium right? Anti consumer practices and all? Oh no wait, they've been removed. But wait, Kinect....spying! That's what it's all about now yeah? Sigh.
Someone is a little upset that xbone is overall a mediocre system lol. Btw Ryse looks better than Deep Down... Riiiiiight.
@ravens "Someone is a little upset that xbone is overall a mediocre system lol. " Yeah thanks for that immature comment. How old are you? "Btw Ryse looks better than Deep Down... Riiiiiight." Eh? When did I say it was? Oh, but its guaranteed to not be a timed exclusive right? /s
another reasoned post shot down by the fan-drones..... They have become a parody of themselves - you couldn't make it up
See, Septic, it's not the actual content of MS that is making people irritated. It's their ass-backwards way of conveying this info, as if their general audience are a bunch of idiots, the lies, the contradictions, just twisting everything and using smoke and mirrors to make themselves look good. They recently changed the indie policy for updates on XBL, didn't announce a word of it, yet they're hell bent on talking about "cloud" and trying to get people back on for DRM and always online.