More impressive technical specs surface about the PS4 real time tech demo The Dark Sorcerer by Quantic Dream, and also a little mistery about a discrepancy in the number of polygons displayed.
Sorry man. I love the PS4. But this is bullshit "The framerate was not optimized at E3, and ran between 30 and 90 frames per second." Dont tell me you guys believe that :p
I don't see why we shouldn't?
^ How could we not believe it? They're not even allowed to lie about this, so wtf are you even talking about?
I wonder it says that uses 4 gigs of ram of 8. But it's like it used 3 + 1 (from the OS) or 4 from the 7 available for gaming ?
@pedrof93 I read in another article that this was created using an early devkit that had only 4gb available for them to use. The way it sounded is they didn't use the full 4gb. So it could be 3.5 or even 2gb.
So cute to see all the youngsters post on this site. They have no clue about the PS2 and Toy Story CGI graphics. Still have my PS2 hooked up. Still waiting for that game with those graphics.
@miD Fun fact: Sony never actually said that, it was the "Media" that twisted up their words and made it seem as though they did say that... Thought you should know, mate...
"The DualShock 4 can be used to dynamically move the camera position and switch lighting (between studio mode and film mode) within a single frame" this proves it's a real-time engine @DoomeDx they way it gets so much detail could be because of the small area to render, low depth of field and fewer AI objects in the environment.
he's acting like it's microsoft making this statement..
@midnight lol except the toy story thing was never Sony. source: http://www.neogaf.com/forum... It was Bill Gates
Toy Story 1 CGI was really not all that impressive. Go back and watch it. Pay attention to Sid's dog. (Yes, I know the names of the characters. I have three kids. And those movies are good.) Secondly, this is easily CGI quality. And it's proven. It's not a promise. The Division: Have you seen it? We're there, people. Excellent fidelity has arrived. I can't even begin to imagine what Naughty Dog will do on PS4 after what I saw in The Last of Us.
''The demo has been created by using the PS3 development pipeline used for Beyond: Two Souls, as PS4 development tools still weren’t available.'' Enough said!imagine how that'll be when they have created their own dev tools for PS4
Why wouldn't we believe it? They said the code wasn't optimized so there would be fluctuations in the framerate. What's so unbelievable about that?
My PC goes between 30 and 90 fps all the time :D
IM actually talking about it techwise. Only 4gb used, 1080p, and 90 FPS with graphics like that? You must be the biggest fanboy in the world to even believe that. Read my comment history and you will see that I am a big sony fan. But this is redicilous
@DoomeDx: I believe what a developer says officially more than what some dude on N4G says, that's for sure.
@DoomeDx: What would be the point in them lying? Even if it only ran at 30fps/1080p, it would still impress anyone. 90fps seems such an arbitrary figure that it strikes me as the truth.
@ Abriael: Ah, so you are that kind of guy that believes that Infinity Ward really made a brand-new engine for Ghost? Or that believes that dynamic-fish AI is next gen? Or that EA DLC is not on-disc because ''the developers told us that''? Grow up. Developers lie often. Thats a fact. Same thing counts for other businesses
@DoomeDx: I believe what I see. The demo is very complex, but it features only three characters on screen tops and at times only ones. The environment is complex as well but isn't very big. It's entirely credible that the rendering could have hit 90 frames per second in the less crowded scenes since it can stay over 30 in the more crowded ones. It's really simple logic, and you're disbelieving what they say with no reason to other than an irrational "it's impossible!" belief.
Actually when it spawns all those goblins, there is more than 3 characters on screen.
I think the confusion stems from you not understanding what FPS actually means. It's fairly easy to vary between 30-90 FPS. Any PC gamer will tell you that pretty easily. The PS4 is an absolute beast; with twice the GPU power of the Xbox One; along with 2.5x faster RAM and a larger quantity of it used for games. I don't even see why this would be something to question. There is no reason for them to worry about optimizations at this stage. Why would they care about locking the frame rate; especially on a product that will not hit retail? Google is your friend; it might be a good start for you to start your research and stop sounding like an idiot on here.
" Ah, so you are that kind of guy that believes that Infinity Ward really made a brand-new engine for Ghost?" Those guys lies through their teeth on a bi annual basis . We have very few reasons to doubt the word of Quantic dream so far . And i think you are mistaking those 90 fps spikes and variation as a good thing that would deserve hyping . Iit's an unstable result from experimentations and a tech demo
@Foliage No, the PS4 does not have twice the GPU power as the Xbox One. It has exactly 50% more graphics power as the Xbox One. The Xbox One has 12 compute units, while the PS4 has 18. As a comparison my AMD HD 7950 graphics card, which uses the same GCN shader architecture, has 28 compute units. You also can't say the PS4 has 2.5 times the memory bandwith because in order to reach that figure you would have to pretend the ESRAM in the Xbox One doesn't exist. I'm not saying Microsoft's claims of 194 gb/s are accurate as a general measure of data throughput, but to pretend it doesn't exist at all is equally disingenuous. The PS4 is definitely more powerful than the Xbox One. There is no need to lie or distort the truth.
If it was a dev for xbox one would ppl still be saying positive stuff like this, Ill bet no, everybody mocks at the belief that the specs are closer than we think, thats why they are both at the same price cus u figure about 100 for kinect. On paper ps4 sounds better, but so did the 360 and u know what with the ps3 came out to be about equal to 360 once the devs knew how to handle the custom parts so we should be giving microsoft the benefit of the doubt.
@starchild you are not very accurate either, 10% of the XB1 GPU is locked, this leaves about 1.1 TFLOPS for games compared to the full 1.84 TFLOPS on the PS4, so the gap between them is like 3 XBOX360s. as for eSRAM, it can only stream 32mb at a time.
@Abriael But when developer says something good about XO you believe what N4g folks say not him. How Ironic.
Frame Rate Fluctuations Are A Government Conspiracy.
No, it's the Illuminati!!
So Is Capitalizing The First Letter Of Every Word That You Type. Oh God.... They're Onto Me! D:
Its My Stupid Phone.
There's not much going on in the scene that would eat up resources and it's a small, confined space. There' nothing impossible about it. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's fake. Quantic Dream has a track record that easily supports them as leaders in visual fidelity. What is there to doubt?
Yes it looked fantastic and of course unless locked framerate would be up and down. But the Division was running on PS4 and looked awesome and huge. So i don't doubt graphics like that are possible. Optimized or not.
The problem is that most people don't understand what a tech demo is. The Dark Sorcerer scene is extremely detailed yes but the PS4 has not many things to render. Of course you won't have such detail in an open world game where the PS4 has to render 50 or more people, buildings, maybe vehicles at the same time.
Yeah. I remember the t rex tech demo on ps1. Very impressive but actual game animations were no where near as smooth or realistic. Tech demo's simply show what the hardware is capable of but shouldnt be taken as in game standards
@Angrymorgan Ow yea the T-Rex demo blew me away when I got my psone (big jump for me from sega saturn!). Never saw a game with that kind of graphics on psone. Will be same here. When you're not watching pre-made scene where everything is baked in but actually playing a game it's much much more complicated.
Finally someone who can look at tech demos without rose tinted glasses. I loved that Trex Tech Demo, and the Manta Rays too! Loved the music in the manta ray one, so haunting! But yeah everyone here knows the score, while graphically impressive it was still a small confined set, the more you expand on that and the more assets you add for the console to compute, the more of a hit you'll take on graphical fidelity, not to take anythign away from this insanely impressive tech demo. Quantic Dreams always seem to hit close to their tech demos so I'm curious to see what this game ends up becoming and how it ends up looking. Quantic Dream games tend to have locked camera angles and only show you what they need to show you at any given time, so they know exactly what needs to be rendered where and when in relation to the player character, which enables them to populate thier levels in as much detail as possible and carefully balance it so as not to e hit a dip in performance or crashing the system, i have probably worded that terribly but hopefully i made some sense of it.
I forgot about the manta ray lol. I remember liking the music tho I remember it was on a disc called demo one
Considering that Beyond: Two Souls is running at a higher visual fidelity and is technically more impressive than the Kara tech demo that came before it, I think that what they showed with The Dark Sorceror is definitely achievable in a full, large scale game, especially considering it is in fact real-time running on PS4 and not pre-rendered. In a couple years, games on PS4 will go far beyond what's been shown already. Just depends on the developer and how far they want to push and optimize the game they're creating.
LOL... People are disagreeing with you. They actually think a real-time game with actual gameplay could maintain this level of detail!! Funny how we haven't seen a single game that can even come close to this. Idiots
what do you believe? the PS4 Devkit was still not finalized and I'm sure this tech demo wasn't polished as well as a complete product. We saw some hiccups here and there on certain games at E3, but the footage was awesome for a early reveal. We've been stuck with the same old hardware for 7 years, so seeing a big gap between the two gen is not that surprising to me. running code on devkit can be rough at the beginning. at least it ran on the actual hardware....
Of cause it can run between 30-90FPS.
Yes, we believe.:)
I don't think you understand even slightly what you're talking about, all you hear is 1080p and 90 fps and you go off the rails, sometimes when scene shifts focus then less processing is required as its a smaller area its focused on, at that point if there is no vsync and optimization then the framerate will skyrocket even if its for a second or less. When a lot is going on (technically speaking) on screen the framerate will fall and when there is little going on then the framerate will rise, its probably as simple as that and I know very little about these things myself.
why not, it was an enclosed set piece, only two characters(until the goblin multiplies)filmed only facing one direction, and no form of AI whatsoever. not hard to believe at all really, but still very impressive
You obviously have zero technical knowledge on the matter. My GTX 680 can play Battlefield 3 anywhere from 60-90fps without V-Sync, it will fluctuate depending on the usage. The Dark Sorcerer demo is a highly focused small area, so of course they will be able to achieve 1080p with the frame rate all over the place. It's not a game, and it's not super optimized. It's a tech demo, and an impressive one at that.
@ Doomedx, don't take things to personal... The demo is really impressive. But I don't think they have reasons to lie. It's a show piece work & if found to be questionable, then it could be really damaging. Case point KZ 2 trailer...
While I get what you're getting at DoomeDx, this is actually possible seeing as it only had to render this single small room. It definitely looked incredibly smooth and if anything I'm more surprised that it ever dipped to 30 fps. It becomes a lot different when there's a whole world being generated and not just one room. One personal example I can think of is Silent Hill 2. That ran at 30 fps the whole time except for this one room you could go into about the size of a really large closet that would make it suddenly jump to somewhere around 60.
Why not believe it. God of War 3 and ascension run from 30 to 50 fps on the ps3. So 30 to 90 on a next gen console isnt out of the question.
can you please grow up IMPOSSIBRU
@Doom "All particle effects are simulated in real time and emit light/create shadows." "Effects that would normally be applied in post production like Lens Flare, True 3D Depth of Field and Motion Blur are implemented in real time based on an accurate optical simulation." "Physics-based real time rendering is used for reflections and done by the rendering engine. When the lighting changes, the shaders don’t, but the reflection effect still changes dynamically based on lighting. This is a technique that was previously possible only for pre-rendered CG at this level of detail." "An advanced technique named Subsurface Scattering (SSS) is used to simulate the shading of the skin. It involves letting the light penetrate translucent materials and then scatter and refract a number of times at irregular angles and exiting the surface again a different points. It’s another technique that was previously only used in CG." "All clothes, accessories and hair (including the feathers in the sorcerer’s collar) are physically simulated in their motion and interaction with the environment, like they were worn by a real actor" "The demo has been created by using the PS3 development pipeline used for Beyond: Two Souls, as PS4 development tools still weren’t available." These are some of the key reasons why the frame rate fluctuated...
I agree, these consoles will be out done by PCs in no time, but they can still produce good looking games. Just not the best looking out there.
The fact that it ran between 30fps and 90fps proves it wasen't optimized.
"Each human model has 380 different bones: 180 in the face, 150 for the body and 50 for the exoskeleton. This is three times the number of bones used in Heavy Rain and twice the number used in Beyond: Two Souls." I'm guessing bones means something different here as I'm pretty sure there's only 206 bones in the average adult human. I'm not 100% sure on the bone count of goblins though... or camp demons.
In game development bones are simply segments of the models that can be independently animated. So there may be more or less depending on what you want to simulate. A human skull has a lot less than 180 bones, but in order to achieve that level of fidelity you need 180 "bones" in the face of the model.
I thought so :) I wonder how many bones Call of Duty dog has?
my guess is that there are "bones" in the face to mimic muscle movement to improve facial expressions.
They should recreate this tech demo on PC to compare.
and? what's the point?
To compare what? It's already better than anything seen on PC. You're curious about how much better it could look if higher end hardware is used as a source when it's already on top of anything seen in PC or console games to date. Only things comparable are the Uncanny Valley tech demo and Capcoms Deep Down (working title).
Another guy that does not know what he is talking about. Dude, There were games already struggling to run games well at E3 and the consoles are not even out yet. This is a tech demo, my PC can push shit like this my friend if a PS4 can. My specs already out do the consoles lol. The Ps4 will still look fine, but not better than PC, its not to be a dick but its true.
The point isn't that a PC can push the specs, the point is that no game released on PC thus far looks anywhere near as good as this tech demo. I mean what's the hold up? PCs have been as strong as (stronger than) the PS4 is about to be for a few years already.
Of course it would look better on a high end pc, but that's just common sense since it has much better hardware. Makes me excited to see these graphics on ps4 cause it'll only make pc graphics that much better.
I have been so surprised that more PC gamers don't share your sentiment! I play PC and for me, better console hardware means bigger, better, prettier games for me to run on my PC! Stop being stupid "master race" and be happy for the console crowd. Hell if the ps4 has some great exclusives in the next few years I will be excited to pick one up
^^ I'm sure I sound like a pc "fanboy" plenty. I just really love my platform :) I'm nothing but excited for these new consoles though. The thought of 6-8 core cpu optimization and that my next gpu upgrade is going to have 4-6 gig ram makes me drool. My 4x wireless 360 pads are starting to burnout so it'll be nice to be able to pickup 4x wireless xbox one pads once I'm able too.
From someone who has played Crysis 3 and Metro Last Light on both 360 and PC, I honestly have to say PC graphics are overrated. Yes it looks better, but not THAT much better, which is quite a shocker to me considering the difference in hardware capability. Perhaps this has to do with most games being ports, and the difficulty in opitmising properly for PC, since theres so many hardware variants. Not trying to diss the platform, but the other thing is that there are hardly any great PC games anymore. 99.9% of the great AAA titles I can already play on my PS3 or 360. There really isn't any PC games for me to continue upgrading it.
I'd say the Agni's Philosophy demo looked on par with this. Besides, it's a tech demo. When a game comes out looking equally good then we can talk. If you want to talk about tech demos, I was more impressed with the Infiltrator tech demo. But again, lets wait until we see the actual games.
Considering that Beyond: Two Souls is running at a higher visual fidelity and is technically more impressive than the Kara tech demo that preceeded it, I know that The Dark Sorceror tech demo will be completely achievable in a full scale game. Games on PS4 will surpass this in a couple years, which to me seems crazy, but it's true. I can't wait!
Keep in mind this was made on a PS4 with 4GB of RAM. Imagine what could they've done with 8.
Yes , sooner or later all of us will witness Avatar like graphics on PS4 . It's only matter of time .