470°
Submitted by Sev 460d ago | news

Microsoft Alienates A Third Of 360 Owners With Xbox One Policies

GR:

We're not going to beat a dead horse. We, along with the entire game industry before and during E3 heard you loud and clear—you aren't a fan of Microsoft's used game and DRM stance they're taking with the Xbox One. But we have to wonder, why Microsoft would simply pass on over 33% of their current Xbox 360 install base users who currently only play games offline. (E3, Microsoft, Xbox 360, Xbox One)

Update Here are a few relevant updates:

Microsoft Rolls Back Xbox One Internet And Used Game Requirements - http://www.gamerevolution.c...

With Xbox One's Oppressive DRM Out Of The Way, Let's Talk Games - http://www.gamerevolution.c...

TrendyGamers  +   460d ago
Not to mention the countries that won't even support it.
liorishot  +   460d ago
lol most of the countries cant even buy it because it wont even work fail
NewMonday  +   460d ago
the funny thing is a very big share of Xbox fans in my country are big fanboys who want the XB1 despite the problems..but it's not supported!

LOL!
dcbronco  +   460d ago
Couple of brilliant observations. The funny thing about those countries that don't have much broadband also have major problems providing electricity. So unless Sony has some magic power source, and I know you believe they do, the PS4 will have issues there also.

Funny thing is that many of those country have smartphone service. And since that can be used to check in, Sony doesn't necessarily have any advantage.

And do you geniuses think Xbox will never come to those other countries. It will probably make it there around the time the PS4 gets sold in those markets.

Oh, lol.
#1.1.2 (Edited 460d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(39) | Report
InTheLab  +   460d ago
@dcbronco

Your logic is flawed. The 360 is available in quite a few countries not supported by Xbox One. Power is not an issue there. To this day, there's still a few countries where PS3's are sold where 360s are not.
Blakhaze999  +   460d ago
@dcbronco

What? Honestly you sound like you are from one of those countries without internet. Your talking about using cell phones as hotspots in areas that you say may not even have electricity. Are you ok? And then you are saying that sony does not have the advantage because xbox users can just use their cell phones to check in. Uhhh I would call that a huge advantage to sony. Either you get a xbox one, use your data plan from your cell phone so your able to play your video game console.. OR get a ps4 and have no worries at all. Your right theres no advantage there. SMH! And 2. where did you hear that most countries which dont have internet also do not have electricity? Im pretty sure your wrong about that. Electricity is more common then internet. And those without electricity are not worrying about a video game console at all i assure you.
ShinMaster  +   460d ago
@dcbronco
You make Xbox gamers look bad. How could you be so deluded.

http://i.imgur.com/vfRwPu7....
The PS3 was supported in more countries than the 360 no problem. And just like the PS3, the PS4 can go completely offline. No internet connection required.
Even the 360 was supported in a lot more countries than the Xbox One will be. All because of Microsoft's policies.
pixelsword  +   460d ago
Both Sony and Microsoft have people who feel Alienated...
EVILDEAD360  +   460d ago
Not anymore.

Evil
cgoodno  +   460d ago
You know, that whole "one third" figure is way out of line. Just because a person doesn't have an XBL Gold Membership doesn't mean they can't have a console that's connected all the time. Just means they don't use online features on their 360.

Just wanted to put that out there after seeing it used so often.
darkride66  +   460d ago
I agree this isn't necessarily the case, but it is in line with high speed internet usage in the US. A third, or about 100 million people in the US don't have high speed internet for a variety of reasons. Given this was the 360's biggest market, even if the "one third" figure is off, it's probably not off by much.

And we're not talking about just gold memberships here, that one third figure is all Xbox Live members. It certainly correlates to high speed internet usage figures that we see in general. Regardless, when you're looking at the US market as a whole, that's one third who simply can't use your product. That's not insignificant.
Perjoss  +   460d ago
true, but you can also argue that if those people didnt pay for Live before why on earth would they pay for Live on the One when it has far more restriction in place. They would be paying for an inferior service compared to current Live which has none of the new restrictions.
loulou  +   460d ago
agreed darkride. 33% if true is too high a percentage to ignore.

they still have 5 months or a bit less to get their stuff in order before launch.

i cant believe that they are not looking at the pre-order numbers with dread. to carry on regardless will relegate them to xbox original type sales over the next generation..

surely they most know this?? change that firmware m$, and announce it ffs. oh and drop a bit off of the price as well
cgoodno  +   460d ago
***true, but you can also argue that if those people didnt pay for Live before why on earth would they pay for Live on the One***

You don't need a Live subscription to use an Xbox One the same way you would an Xbox 360.
dedicatedtogamers  +   460d ago
The numbers break down like this (roughly)

1/3rd of 360 owners are not online (whether they CAN be online is another story)

1/3rd of 360 owners are Silver

1/3rd are Gold.

So, while 2/3rds are online, only a third are Gold subscribers.

But the numbers don't really matter. Microsoft has a much better idea - internally - who is connected and how often, but the public numbers we have don't tell us how often those Silver and Gold subscriptions go online, how often they go offline, how long they're offline, etc.
thebudgetgamer  +   460d ago
There was an article in 2010 that reported that amount of 360's were never connected to the internet at all.

http://www.ps3blog.net/2010...
#1.2.6 (Edited 460d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report
lomion5  +   460d ago
While that's a fair point, those people will now have to pay for live to use their new Xbox one. Which they only use offine. Paying for a service you don't use may not be something those buyers want. Alternatively, who knows, maybe some of them will end up using it now that they have to have it. I have to think those people are a small minority though.
rainslacker  +   460d ago
Did MS confirm you have to pay for live to use the Xbox One? I would imagine they would still have a silver tiered membership for those that don't want to pay for Live. This would allow them to still update on their 24-hour check in.
#1.2.8 (Edited 460d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report
born2live  +   460d ago
@cgoodno

You forget that, of the 76 M consoles sold, many were bought more than once by the same users, due to the 360 being a defective piece of crap (I had to buy 3, and 2 of them were replaced during the warranty period!). Not enough data and numbers are made to say things that they don't say - pretty bad article overall.
cgoodno  +   460d ago
***You forget that, of the 76 M consoles sold, many were bought more than once by the same users, due to the 360 being a defective piece of crap***

Which doesn't matter since the figures being used are based on Xbox accounts, not number of xbox 360s out there.

***Did MS confirm you have to pay for live to use the Xbox One?***

XBL sub is only required for doing what you would normally have to pay on 360. You don't need Live to play all games on a single console. It is undetermined if you will need Live to download and play your games from a friend's house (via your login) or if Family sharing requires XBL sub.
#1.2.10 (Edited 460d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report
born2live  +   460d ago
@cgoodno

"***You forget that, of the 76 M consoles sold, many were bought more than once by the same users, due to the 360 being a defective piece of crap***

Which doesn't matter since the figures being used are based on Xbox accounts, not number of xbox 360s out there"

The article compares the number of consoles sold worldwide (76 M) vs the number of gold accounts (48 M) and determines very unscientifically that 2/3 of the xbox players have a gold account. Re-buyers - because I assume this time it won't be as defective as the last one - will affect the overall proportion of the number of xbox gamers worldwide vs the ones that have a gold account. They are probably losing about 10%-15% of their userbase.
#1.2.11 (Edited 460d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report
sinjonezp  +   460d ago
Could this console be a complete failure before it is released? Would Microsoft let go of its pride and pull the plug on this catastrophe? Would Microsoft continue to drain billions and billions of dollars to invest in something 3/4 of the consumer base do not want? As a gamer, what do we really want? Do we want them to control our gaming for us? Do we want DRM? Do we want an always on kinect and internet? If the answer is no - majority, why won't Microsoft make adjustments? What do everyone think would be the perfect scenario for Microsoft to be successful? Someone sound off and e-mail it to Microsoft.
Simco876  +   460d ago
That will get'em!

You make change with your wallet...don't buy the Xbone and you will send a message.
The_KELRaTH  +   460d ago
I don't think they're listening or they would have asked about Win 8, their phone OS too.
It seems its the "only we KNOW best" and the rest of us are expected to heel into line.

Just fortunate there's a few other choices out there as I really enjoy my gaming periods.
Perjoss  +   460d ago
I agree with Simco876.

I have a massive collection of 360 games, none of the new restrictions affect me, I never but 2nd hand I never trade in and I'm always online, but I will not be buying a One just on principle, I think it is very anti consumer and I've always liked the idea of building a games collection that is mine forever, not just for the duration that the authentication servers will be online for.

no thank you, there will be more than enough games on PS4, PC and WiiU.
Trekster_Gamer  +   460d ago
I totally agree!
Another thing is people are saying maybe they will do an about face or there is enough time for them to reverse course. I think every day really counts, I have already given up on them and pre-ordered a PS4 and even if they supposedly try to save face it is too little too late for me. I have paid for gold since 2007 and now I am going to be happy to become a PS+ member.
shinrock  +   460d ago
PS fanboys make up 3/4? I don't know that.the for informing Mr I see into everyone's soul.
rainslacker  +   460d ago
I agree with what you say, but just to play devil's advocate here.

MS has plans for the X1. Things we probably know nothing about. When it comes to corporate mentality, a plan is put in place to achieve a certain goal.

If their goal is to be a strong gaming machine then they would reevaluate their plans based on all the things you mentioned. If their goal is to be a all in one media center that plays games that they can control the market on, then what they have planned now is what they feel is the best approach.

They may reevaluate their plans, but probably only in the sense of how to market it to the public. Corporations often don't change their policies until they show without doubt that they aren't working to achieve their desired goal. When money is on the line, they may refocus the product in order to achieve their overall goal.
NextGen24Gamer  +   460d ago
Okay let's get some facts straight!

46 million xbox live users

76 million xbox 360 consoles sold

of the 30 million xbox 360 owners who don't have xbox live, we have no idea how many don't have internet.

My nephew for example. He lives in Atlanta and his mom, my sister, has internet but won't let him play online. He is only 10 yrs old.

I would bet that many of the xbox 360's that don't subscribe to xbox live have access to internet, but like my sister, doesn't use the xbox live.

For people like my sister, she still wouldn't need to get xbox live to use the xbox one. The console just needs to be connected to her internet via Wi-Fi just like her cell phone & tablet.

People are acting like it's a bigger deal than it actually is.

The only people that MS is leaving behind are the people with absolutely NO ACCESS to internet. Those people wouldn't benefit from the unique features of the next generation of gaming anyway.

It's like people complaining when a new cell phone comes out but the area they live in has no cell phone signal. Well, the cell phone isn't for you buddy.

It's life. I commend MS for pushing forward into the future. Someone has to do it. The benefits far outway the negatives and people will understand sooner than later.

I'm super excited! November can't come fast enough!!!!!!!
NextGen24Gamer  +   460d ago
Proof that the xbox one is for the future and not the current or past is the fact that you have to have an HD Television in order to use the xbox one. No one is complaining about the small percentage of people in rural countries who don't even have an HD television. LOL...It's the same exact thing.

HD Television and Internet is required to enjoy the future of gaming...XBOX ONE!

If you don't have an HD TV or Internet, buy the Ps4.

Xbox One can do 4K or otherwise called Ultra HD for games and the Ps4 CANNOT!

You pay an extra $100 for a true next gen console that's not looking back but moving forward.
tigertom53  +   460d ago
360 did support many countries and expanded after release...
cannon8800  +   460d ago
I've been a loyal playstation gamer since psone and I was actually interested in purchasing the new xbox, but now there's no way I'll even consider buying it. I'd rather have Pinocchio stick his hose up my butthole and tell me lies then getting an xbox one.
Excalibur  +   460d ago
Reading comments here,other gaming sites, FB,Twitter and even Yahoo news fro crips sake it seems more like 3/4 of it's 360 users, myself being one of them.
MariaHelFutura  +   460d ago
Yep. 1/3rd sounds low. It doesn't take long to find disgruntled Xbox fans, anywhere social activities are available.
jmc8888  +   460d ago
The sad thing is that all the places they're bitching that was mentioned above...are just as guilty as spying on you as Microsoft.

Steam just scored a flawless victory on MS, and showed how you don't need system wide DRM check-ins in order to share games.

Microsoft has no clothes.
Walker  +   460d ago
There is no difference, no innovations ! meh
maniacmayhem  +   460d ago
I wouldn't say all that. It had just as many great features as the PS4 did.
MariaHelFutura  +   460d ago
and really bad ones the PS4 doesn't. Namely DRM, A forced camera, having to check in and not working anywhere in the world. All of these things, detract from the "innovation" it does have.
jmc8888  +   460d ago
Not to mention, none of those drawbacks were necessary to implement any of their 'features'.

Steam game sharing >>>> Xbox One sharing
Polysix  +   460d ago
It will also have the worst versions of multiplatform games because it's just simply not as powerful as the PS4. A fact time will prove.
#3.1.3 (Edited 460d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(2) | Report
FantasyStar  +   460d ago
Talk about beating a dead horse....
maniacmayhem  +   460d ago
Yes they are. Introducing too many restrictions all up front was not a good idea.

No one wants to see a new and improved product with a bunch of "can't do's" that didn't appear on the older version.

Very bad on MS's part.
B1663r  +   460d ago
Not having to have a disk in the drive is a restriction? You've got it backwards buddy.

Having to change disk every time you want to play a different game is the restriction...
maniacmayhem  +   460d ago
But because of this feature now I can't rent a game from gamefly or Redbox.

This feature would have been great going from whatever disk you currently have in your X1 to any digital game to the TV or app. I would gladly take this if it meant I could still do what I have been doing for the 360.
Why o why  +   460d ago
That type of attitude makes me think of the well known idiom. One step forward, twos steps back
jmc8888  +   460d ago
You do realize that they could have implemented that feature without the system wide DRM check-in right?

So why did they needlessly restrict you?

Steam just blew Microsoft out of the water. They just said, your secret sauce is crap. THIS is how you share games M$.
Wikkid666  +   460d ago
This article is BS.

Where did these numbers come from?

I would say maybe 10% tops... not 33%. There is such thing called Silver membership too. MS knows exactly how many 360s are connected to the internet. Not rocket science to view log records.
BattleTorn  +   460d ago
And they know that majority of their users play multiplayer, or while connected.

And that they're gamers don't really care to play their games in 5-10years.
TheEvilWithin  +   460d ago
Starting to feel alone on that Island Kid?
komp  +   460d ago
how many xbox360 sold
how many XBL subscribers

I would say 70mill console / 38 mill XBL subs.

subtract replacement consoles from the near 50% of non subscribers (ie: offline owners) = A LOT of people NOT buying the console before the DRM comes into the picture.

my opinion of course...
Wikkid666  +   460d ago
LOL...

The subscriber numbers are Gold memberships.

That doesn't mean the console isn't connected to the internet. There is also the free Silver membership... not included in the 48 million number.
komp  +   460d ago
@Wikkid666

Is that so, I did not know it did not include SLV. It should be included in the math then.

thanks.
Wikkid666  +   460d ago
Kind of pointless to include a free membership into the number. A single person could have an unlimited number, so it would totally defeat the purpose.
NatureOfLogic  +   460d ago
No matter how well or bad MS does, bottom line is they will lose potential customers. Always online wasn't a smart move at all. 10 or 30 percent, doesn't matter, MS should be aiming to expand the Xbox experience, not limit it. Xbox one doesn't make sense from a business or consumer standpoint.
The_KELRaTH  +   460d ago
I can't comment on the percentage that use their 360 offline but I do remember being quite shocked when Epic said that approximately 50% of the PC Unreal Tournament players only played it offline and I'd always considered it almost an online only game!
jmc8888  +   460d ago
The numbers are probably derived from BS.

But they probably are close to what it will be.

Probably going to be more.

Nothing Xbox One does needs the restrictions.
No one needs the spying that IS happening.

It costs $100 more, and the PS4 is 50-125 percent more powerful.

Any device can use a cloud.

..and they are most likely going to push out rejects similar to RROD in an attempt to make launch.
#6.6 (Edited 460d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
SmokingMonkey  +   460d ago
Hate the asymmetry of the XB controller.

Why would you prefer something that is not like your body?

Imagine the analog sticks as arms, so just like when aiming a gun, you would need to balance/adjust your arms to get the accurate shot. Right?

Now imagine if you had a retard arm that was not symmetrical/mirror image of your other arm?
DestinyHeroDoomlord  +   460d ago
Most people aren't ambidextrous...
SmokingMonkey  +   460d ago
So they only use one hand on the controller?
BattleTorn  +   460d ago
^^ Using two hands /= ambidextrous
#7.1.2 (Edited 460d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(1) | Report
DestinyHeroDoomlord  +   460d ago
Actually only 1 in 100 people are... ( proficient with both hands)
#7.1.3 (Edited 460d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report
BattleTorn  +   460d ago
The reason is because we don't use the joysticks symmetrically.

One is for movement, the other for field of view.

One has us pushing forward a lot more, and the other usually has a wide range of motion - aka looking around.

The left joystick is foward so your thumb isn't reaching as far down to remain going forward.
The industry is fairly unanimous towards the asymmetric design - even the special edition PS3 controllers copy the design. http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw...

Why'd they do that?
Google: "custom Xbox 360 controllers" vs "custom ps3 controllers"

You won't find any Xbox 360 controllers trying to mimic the ps3 controller like you do when you search for the latter - like this
http://cdn.unrealitymag.com...
#7.2 (Edited 460d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
SmokingMonkey  +   460d ago
to sell in the U.S. or to American's, hence the batarang.

Obviously the U.S. prefers it, why didn't Sony go with that design for the Dualshock 4, which by the way people/developer's seem to love?
Eldyraen  +   460d ago
I actually find MS stick configuration more comfortable as Playstations is bit more "rigid" and "proper".

If you actually look at people when they sit and do things very rarely are they in an entirely symmetrical position. Even if you read books, drive (not during driving tests) etc you are rarely perfectly aligned/positioned which is part of why many consider the xbox controllers more ergonomical--it takes into consideration a "natural" asymmetrical, relaxed position.

Doesn't mean some people prefer the other though as it all really comes down to personal taste as well as physiology (as comfort zone differs based on it as much as anything else).
ShowGun901  +   460d ago
M$ is actually hoping people will swallow whatever they throw at them to play a new Halo... People won't switch, and will accept DRM and online requirements, and accept Kinect being forced on them simply cause of a new Halo and Gears every so often... I hope people aren't really that dumb to give up their rights for a yearly sequel...
sAVAge_bEaST  +   460d ago
like this poll? it shows 3/4 in ps4 favor.

http://www.xboxonevspsfour....
TheGrimReaper0011  +   460d ago
Hey, thats a preety cool poll! with the controller being more visible.
SITH  +   460d ago
I hope that third is the kids.
EazyC  +   460d ago
The extent to which M$ has underestimated consumer reaction is actually a bit shocking. Surely someone stood up in one of their board meeting and went "uh, guys, people aren't gonna get on board with this"?
jmc8888  +   460d ago
Not really, it's par for the course for idiot MS.

Windows 8 anyone? Vista? Millennium edition? Zune?

The sad fact is that microsoft got lucky in BUYING windows and dos.

Windows 7, is still very much similar to the windows MS initially BOUGHT.

Whenever they try changing it too much, they screw up.

I guess I'm still waiting for the first thing actually developed by Microsoft. Because they just either buy or copy everyone else.
No_Limit  +   460d ago
MS bought Windows and DOS? Please do a little research before making yourself look silly.
RiPPn  +   460d ago
@No_Limit:

Microsoft quickly bought the rights to QDOS (Quick and Dirty Operating System), also known as 86-DOS,[3] from Seattle Computer Products, and began work on modifying it to meet IBM's specification.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

Apple had licensed portions of its GUI to Microsoft for Windows version 1.0.

http://www.howstuffworks.co...

Maybe you should follow your own advice.
ThatCanadianGuy514  +   460d ago
Good job MS.
NewWhiteFeather  +   460d ago
I had to create an account just to comment on this retardedness. I've owned 4 360s. My brother has owned 2. My best friend has owned 5 or so, because every time he deployed with the US military he sold his and purchased a brand new console when he got back. His brother has owned two. Another guy in our "circle" from way back in highschool has owned two. One could reasonably believe half or more of the "non subscribing consoles" can be attributed to replacements or upgrades. Further, a moderately high percentage of the remainder can reasonably be attributed to silver users. We're down to roughly conservatively 10-15% of users MS is forcing a change on.

That's considerably less than the number of users forced to acquire a broadband service when the original XBL went live.

Stop being afraid of change and for the love of god stop writing articles about misinformation or articles that draw retarded and demonstrably false conclusions.
UNGR  +   460d ago
So it's for the people that get everything out of their console, not the ones who play Fifa, and the Call of Duty campaign. Sorry but that's proving a focus, alienating people who hardly contribute to sales is hardly a bad thing. The Sony centric fanboys here should think twice, they'd be defending it if Sony was focusing on the people with internet.
DoesUs  +   460d ago
BIG news incoming! Watch this space!
nachokingp  +   460d ago
MS has stated that this particular facet of the DRM isn't finalized yet. The way it stands now, you won't need any disc to play beyond the initial install, and the 24 hour connectivity check is to ensure that you're not letting all your friends install your copy of the game on their consoles and play a single player version of the game. I can see them implementing a rule that if your connectivity fails for 24+ hours, you could be required to play with the disc inserted. Of course, this is purely me saying that, not Microsoft, but I don't think they'll completely ignore what the fans are saying. But they also won't ignore publishers, who want a better system for handling used games.
Merk  +   460d ago
Microsoft just announced Xbox One will not require internet or restrict used games.

Even they realized a under powered, over priced, spy-on-you-drm-lockbox was going to get rolled by the PS4.

So now its just over priced and underpowered. Huzzah!

Having said that, I'll probably end up w/ both consoles.

Time for the PS4 fanboys to find something else to rant about.
Waller  +   460d ago
You just called it an under-powered, overpriced, spy-on-you-drm-lockbox, and you expect people to not think you're a PS fanboy?

I sure do hope you're a PC gamer, and even then...for shame, name calling and all that.
ALLWRONG  +   460d ago
I feel sorry for those who had opinion pieces ready and almost done... OPPS!!! TOO BAD! ACCESS HAS BEEN DENIED! ERROR! INFO GONE.
IlluminatusV  +   460d ago
Obsolete
mochachino  +   460d ago
Well it's still too expensive.
bohemian 23  +   460d ago
So..... Has anyone heard the news Queens of the stone age album? I think it's pretty damn good.

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