Many gamers around the world were surprised by the price point of the PS4. Looks like Hideo Kojima was taken by surprise as well by Sony’s unveiling. On the other hand he's not worried about the difference in power between PS4 and Xbox one.
I was pleasantly surprised by the PlayStation 4 price as well, especially after hearing the XBox One would cost 500 dollars.
I actually went on record sayng that the PS4 would have costed 349, but in the end I was nearer to it that those that argued 500 :D
I went on record and said the console would be 399 and they would not have any of the Xbox restrictions. I was somewhat surprised.
PS4 plays vinyl? if that's the case than it's the greatest machine ever designed... haha
..would have costed 349" I think you meant to say ...would have cost 349.
I had it XB1 - $450 PS4 - $400 And I guessed a Wii U price drop which won't be happening until probably late 2014 at the earliest. 1/3 isn't too bad..
I wonder if there will be more SKUs with a 499 and 599 option?
I was the same. I wasn't surprised when it turned out to be cheap. If you look at how Sony gone out of their way to reduce the Vita's price as much as possible, you'd know the PS4 would be cheap.
He's a big Hollywood movies fan, but i'm affraid just as misguided on Motion Control as MS is. Interesting read for anyone interested => http://www.theawl.com/2013/...
Can u find info on the ps4 camera? Sony never went into detail about what exactly it was capable of. I hope it can do head tracking, many people use headtracking on pc and it's an amazing gamechanger for the fps genre.
Search Playroom on youtube there is some cool stuff the camera does.
@Donnieboi It's so the NSA and 0Bama can keep tabs on you while in the privacy of your own home. When you factor in how PRISM monitors all internet communication, including videos, skype, etc... i sure as hell don't want a camera on a console (or webcam etc)
he is not going to put down ms an anyway , hell he open the x1 show , so why would he , he has a good relationship with ms bringing his games over to xbox. y he didn't show it running on xbox one no one knows he demoed mg4 on ps3. im sure he has a contract with ms and in that contract there are thin gs like not putting x1 down and praising the sytem.
It's in Kojima's best interest to downplay the differences. People thinking this proves they're the same are not thinking this through. Besides, I would doubt there'd be that much difference in near launch titles anyways. But it will show soon enough. People can like MS exclusives, that's great. But please stop trying to delude others that plainly see the ps4 is not just more powerful but also easy to develop for. We aren't talking cell's difficulty here If anything, xbone has the trickier architecture that may make it more difficult to develop for. But again, I doubt as notoriously difficult as ps3 used to be.
Joystick, Read this: http://www.itproportal.com/... Both the XboxOne and PS4 use the same Jaguar CPU and a 7000 series GPU. The One uses DDR3 which is CPU ram, the PS4 uses GPU GDDR5. Neither is ideal for a combines CPU and GPU which is why the XboxOne uses a buffer to increase bandwidth. The two consoles are nearly identical this generation. Microsoft has been making easy to develop x86 based consoles from the start. To say the PS4 is easier to develop for is silly since they copied the Xbox design. If you get bored and want the information, read the difference between DDR3 and GDDR5 online. Gaming PC's use DDR3 on the motherboard for CPU calculations and high end video cards use a much smaller amount of GDDR5 for the GPU. If GDDR5 was better ram, we would be installing it on the motherboard. I paid $200 for the 16 gigs of Vengence DDR3 in my PC. Do you think I would have had a problem buying GDDR5 if it was available and better?
I don't ever recall Kojima talking negatively about any console. Maybe just say how it might be limited due to one thing or something, but always says there's ways around it. He a techie kind of guy. He likes to utilize tech that's available, and he's quite good at doing it in unique ways. Even mundane things get a notice from him.
sigh... ok I'll bite From the article you linked: "The PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 RAM, providing 176GB/s of bandwidth to both the CPU and GPU. The Xbox One MOSTLY ameliorates this difference with 32MB of high-speed SRAM on the GPU, but it will be a more complex architecture to take advantage of." Simply stated, the X1 can theoretically almost bypass the difference in ram (due to ESRAM and Move Engines), but there needs to be clever coding by the game developers due to the "more complex architecture". And the article is simply comparing specs, not the actual ram available for games: X1's 5gb of DDR3 to PS4's 7gb of GDDR5. And as you said, DDR3 is for the CPU - which is weak in both systems because they are just for streamlined consoles that don't need the beefy CPU's of PC's to push all kinds of data. What will make a significant difference is PS4's more powerful GPU, in combination with more available ram (2 extra gb for games), with more bandwith (GDDR5), in a less complex architecture. PS3 was technically more powerful than 360, but it took some truly talented and dedicated devs to showcase that system. Now the PS4 is more powerful while being less complex than the X1. This is not slant or spin. Let's not move goalposts here. The differences between the PS4 and X1 will begin to show sooner rather than later as we get into the new generation.
Another article I just read was that there is no external power supply for the xboxone. Anyone know if ps4 will still have the brick?
@Joysticks The principle differences are: •DDR3 runs at a higher voltage that GDDR5 (typically 1.25-1.65V versus ~1V) •DDR3 uses a 64-bit memory controller per channel ( so, 128-bit bus for dual channel, 256-bit for quad channel), whereas GDDR5 is paired with controllers of a nominal 32-bit (16 bit each for input and output), but whereas the CPU's memory contoller is 64-bit per channel, a GPU can utilise any number of 32-bit I/O's (at the cost of die size) depending upon application ( 2 for 64-bit bus, 4 for 128-bit, 6 for 192-bit, 8 for 256-bit, 12 for 384-bit etc...). The GDDR5 setup also allows for doubling or asymetric memory configurations. Normally (using this generation of cards as example) GDDR5 memory uses 2Gbit memory chips for each 32-bit I/O (I.e for a 256-bit bus/2GB card: 8 x 32-bit I/O each connected by a circuit to a 2Gbit IC = 8 x 2Gbit = 16Gbit = 2GB), but GDDR5 can also operate in what is known as clamshell mode, where the 32-bit I/O instead of being connected to one IC is split between two (one on each side of the PCB) allowing for a doubling up of memory capacity. Mixing the arrangement of 32-bit memory controllers, memory IC density, and memory circuit splitting allows of asymetric configurations ( 192-bit, 2GB VRAM for example) •Physically, a GDDR5 controller/IC doubles the I/O of DDR3 - With DDR, I/O handles an input (written to memory), or output (read from memory) but not both on the same cycle. GDDR handles input and output on the same cycle. The memory is also fundamentally set up specifically for the application it uses: System memory (DDR3) benefits from low latency (tight timings) at the expense of bandwidth, GDDR5's case is the opposite. Timings for GDDR5 would seems unbelieveably slow in relation to DDR3, but the speed of VRAM is blazing fast in comparison with desktop RAM- this has resulted from the relative workloads that a CPU and GPU undertake. Latency isn't much of an issue with GPU's since their parallel nature allows them to move to other calculation when latency cycles cause a stall in the current workload/thread. A CPU running GDDR5 memory is at a great disadvantage because of the high latency caused by these memory timings. Also, the performance of a graphics card for instance is greatly affected (as a percentage) by altering the internal bandwidth, yet altering the external bandwidth (the PCI-Express bus, say lowering from x16 to x8 or x4 lanes) has a minimal effect. This is because there is a great deal of I/O (textures for examples) that get swapped in and out of VRAM continuously- the nature of a GPU is many parallel computations, whereas a CPU computes in a basically linear way. Nobody really seems to be mentioning the fact that even though the PS4 has very high memory bandwidth (176gb/s), the GPU isn't nearly powerful enough to utilize that much bandwidth. My PC's GTX680 has a memory bandwidth not much higher than the PS4 (208.3gb/s). At face value, one would think the PS4's Radeon HD7850 (flops are the same) would only be slightly slower, but the GTX680 wipes the floor with it. I still think the addition of ESRAM will do big things to bridge the bandwidth gap, while the DDR3's fast timings will give the XBONE more number crunching power than PS4. I know all the PS4 fanboys are going to raise hell over this, but the sooner you get used to the fact that these systems are going to be very close performance wise, the easier it will be to get over the disappointment when the systems are actually available and the reviews are released. And one last note.... I plan on buying a PS4 when they're released. But until then, many of you should try and be at least somewhat objective in your analysis of these systems. Blind faith in a company or a product always results in being let down, followed by unhinged nerd rage.
@ Andrew I don't think you're trolling, but people see ohh numbers or read the text book definition in school or some website, attempt to decipher them, bend logic, and ignore what is now widely accepted. And what is generally accepted that ps4 is at the very least a bit more powerful than x1, suddenly becomes x1 is the same or more powerful than ps4. Which system is more powerful it doesn't matter to me. I own all systems this gen, and I like the X1 exclusives I saw at e3 (though I'm holding out until ms changes their drm policies). What does irk me is some people keep posting all of this information without fully understanding it or it's real world application and then call others fanboys. And it's the same argument that have been debunked countless times in the past since the console spec leaks. When will people understand that DDR3 vs GDDR5 latency in these console architecture with their usage is negligible? We're talking nano seconds here. Where that DDR3 MIGHT make a difference is zipping around X1's apps and three OS. With games however, the bandwidth difference coupled with x1's more exotic design and the difference in available ram (x1's 5gb vs ps4's 7) for games are significant and very real. That's the simplest way I can explain it. Heck if everything is equal as you're trying to say, how does x1 make up the 2gb difference in available ram? That alone is going to make a difference. We've seen ps3 struggle at times with the same amount but split ram. So now having MORE ram in a unified pool available in an easier to develop for system doesn't count now? That called being blind, the same thing you're accusing others of. People are trying to over complicate things and end up confusing / deluding themselves and potentially others. Don't be that guy, Andrew. Don't be that guy.
Joystick- The purpose of that brick of text was to accurately explain the differences between the two memory standards because some people here continually post inaccurate information. Even more so when it comes to peoples understanding of the use of eSRAM. Xbox One will have an 8-core 64-bit x86 Jaguar AMD CPU @ 1.6GHz, coupled with a GPU that’s very close to the Radeon HD 7790. The Xbox One will have 68GB/sec of bandwidth between the CPU/GPU and RAM, the GPU will have 102GB/s of bandwidth to a local 32MB SRAM cache, and another 30GB/s of bandwidth to gamepads, Kinect, and other peripherals. The PS4, in comparison, has an 8-core Jaguar AMD CPU, with a GPU that’s around the same level as the Radeon 7870 (which is significantly more powerful than the 7790). The PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 RAM, providing 176GB/s of bandwidth to both the CPU and GPU. The Xbox One mostly ameliorates this difference with 32MB of high-speed SRAM on the GPU, but it will be a more complex architecture to take advantage of. And again, I'm only speaking of bandwidth here. Everyone knows the PS4 has a more powerful GPU but the fact remains that nobody here really knows if either GPU has the processing power to actually saturate that bandwidth or how the PS4's CPU will perform with high latency GDDR5. Or how effective 32mb of on-die eSRAM dedicated to GPU functions exclusively will be compared to how effectively the PS4's CPU and GPU share that monolithic block of high latency ram. I highly doubt the difference in performance will be anywhere near as great as the fanboys claim. They'll probably be a lot closer than everyone thinks especially since nobody here has any idea what the clock speeds are for the Xbone's ram and gpu. The sizable amount of power saved by going with DDR3 could easily be used to clock the GPU much higher. We'll see...
at Andrew u also have to take in mind when u talk pc specs with pc os the ps4 does not run like one giving the advantage to take on more without using having to deal with the os like a pc does . which is where people say the ps4 has the aDVANTAGE.
Are you not all of the people that complained when the 360 was released saying the cost was not a true cost because you have to by all of the accessories? Well were is all that anger? The eye is not included with the P$4!?! Where is the outrage that Sony would make you pay extra for accessories you have to have to fully use the system? Befor you say you don't need it remember the light on the DS4? What was that light supposed to work with again?
What?? Are you serious? Including Wi-Fi and bluray in a console should be a no brainer in this day and age. But forcing an expensive camera attachment on a hardcore gaming crowd is just stupid.
you don't need the camera for the DS4 to work...
The light can be used for things other than motion control. One instance was to give players visual cues of what was going on in game. I personally haven't seen any use for it, but the camera isn't needed, and some people don't care about it. The PS4 wasn't built around the camera, so yeah, in this case, I'd rather not spend money on something I care nothing about.
Simple answer...it's an OPTION! Things like online adapters, high density disk storage, and hard drives are somewhat essential to a complete gaming experience. However, a camera is really just to ENHANCE the experience for the large percentage of games. (there are PS Eye and Kinect only games...but a small percentage of the market). It's really apples to oranges.
sony played this perfect nobody wanted a kinect so they made the ps4 come without there camera an by doin so they undercut there competitor by 100 bucks on console price
Great. Now remind me again why the PS4 camera is *necessary*..? It's still cheaper with it anyway.
The difference is not small. The thing is that he cant talk bad about Xbox and Microsoft because they made a deal
what deal? certainly not an exclusivity deal lol.
probably the deal is not to talk shit about the X1 lol
Yeah, I had the impression the the 8GB GDDR5 ram would substantially raise the price of the PS4.
Everyone was predicting a $349 ps4 so I think in a way Sony is very happy with $499 Xbox one cause with $399 they are actually making a decent profit Just wait till release world wide numbers will surprise so many people, since Xbox one is only launching in 21 countries. What's funny I thought was CD Red project are doing witcher 3 and Xbox one isn't launching in their home land Lol Kojima tell us the release date, you can't show off such a stunning trailer than expect us to wait 2 years come on make it happen Q2 2014 please
The xbox has connect im sure its worth 100 dollars since its a improvement over the crap last model one. But i hate to pay for online play since their is no reason for it. Everything you can do on xbox live and on PSN you can do on steam so its just a money grab by both companies and i say screw them both to hell i will not pay.
Has Steam made a successful console yet? From what I hear, consoles take a tremendous amount of money to develop and maintain. Steam has it easy right now. Just dealing with only the network end probably affords Valve more options.
With regard to the power of both consoles he said : "The difference is small, and I don’t really need to worry about it. When you come right down to it, the PS4 is cheap (laughs). Though, I wonder about the inclusion of the camera… " So will this be enough for N4G users? Many here claim (incorrectly) that the PS4 is FAR more powerful. Really, the main issue is the price point. That, and of course the restrictions of the X1 should be the main points that people should take into account when considering buying either of the two consoles. For me, its a no-brainer; the PS4 is a day-one for me simply because of the value of the hardware but I do recognise that the X1 is still a great machine hampered by its price and the policies that govern it (both of which can be subject to change). You'll never see me being pathetic on here and spouting this 4>1 or 'Greatness awaits' nonsense. I'll leave that for the fanboys.
Well if he said the difference is small then ill believe him.
Hideo Kojima didn't even know about the price point, are you suggesting he knows the system from corner to corner? Seriously I sometimes come here to N4G looking for fellow gamers, and I am surprised humans are considered intelligent creatures...
It doesn't pay to be honest does it B-racial? Get back in line. PS fans say they hate restrictions. Except when it comes to personal opinion. Then you are restricted to repeating their message.
@ blankolf I would think the guy has a ton of knowledge about both consoles. I'm willing to bet this guy understands the specs better than anyone here. He's been making games for a while, I wouldn't write him off because he didn't know the price for the console. That's not his job, his job is to make a great game.
The fact you came to N4G looking for intelligent commentary, on the world of games, calls into question your own intelligence. :D I joke.
@redgehammer, please tell me a sight that has a good balance of real estate gamers. I am tired of all of the bias but don't know of many gaming sites.
Why should we believe him? He is only one of the most noted game makers in the industry. He cannot possibly know what he is talking about?
@dcbronco You are very right and thats why the bubble system must go. If you dont agree with the group we will debubble you so you can't speak lol. It was always a joke of a system in the first place im glad its gone. Maybe the new system will stop fanboys that are butt hurt from stopping all debate on any subject. It's not a debate or a discussion if all parties agree you butt hurt fanboys and thats what made this site a joke all these years and i been here since 2007.
Initially the difference seems small but as the generation progresses and devs push the hardware that extra 2GB for games and the RAM speed will matter.
Pretty much, he doesn't even go into specifics other than "and I don’t really need to worry about it.". lol Why in the world would he want to downplay system he debuted MGSV on first? Just sayin...
I agree with you there. In the latter part of the next-generation, that difference will be utilised by developers yearning for more power. It will be similar to the PS3 that saw better multiplatform games at the tail end of this generation, except that the difference might be more profound this time round considering the ease of development with the PS4.
Will now that we are talking about the future what if microsofts cloud really is something special and is capable of what they say it is? Major nelson in an interview was preaching about the future and how cloud will be better in years to come
This is N4G. It's Sony land. I wouldn't take most users (blind fanboys) from N4G seriously, they only talk crap. As for the PS4 and X1 hardware specs, they are very similar. It's just the X1's restrictions that are very bad.
The PS4 has 2GB more game RAM and faster RAM. Are you telling me that that doesn't matter? The PS4 has 40% more usable RAM, not 2% or even 10% but a whopping 40%. It sure as hell does matter. Anyone who says it doesn't has either a fanboy interest in the Xbone or a commercial interest in the Xbone.
how they are similar ?! plz tell me here those are the official specs http://i.imgur.com/Z4CvNT1.... now look at them and tell me what very similar here beside the CPU Ps4 GPU is much more powerful Ps4 Ram is much stronger and faster and also ps4 use 7GB for games while xbox1 use only 5GB for games so again what is very similar ?! EDIT: @No_Limit hey, any thing that help you sleep better i guess
@fermcr @Ezz2013 So now sony fanboys are smarter than the devs? woah you guys are low! 1. It's not all about raw specs on paper, IT's ALSO ABOUT ARCHITECTURE (hello esram and move engines) 2. Faster RAM gives very little differece, go make comparisons on PC running games.
Yep, fanboys understand more about the hardware then developers !!! ... and yet PS4 is so powerfull that killzone PS4 only runs at 30 fps. Aren't you guys forgetting about Xbox One's eSRAM that the PS4 doesn't have ? Those consoles have very similar specs. Multiplatform games will be nearly equal, we will only notice differences with exclusive games. The best exclusive devs will take the most advantage of their respective console. The negative factor about the Xbox One is the always online and no used games crap.
@BallsEye and lelo LMFAO! No, more like fanboys tying to deny FACTS right in front of them presented by Eurogamer/Digital Foundry. You know... ACTUAL FULLY DETAILED analysis/studies on the hardware on SPECS from SONY AND MICROSOFT... -_- http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... http://s7.postimg.org/rqi3c... I'm sorry, but FULL comparisons on the SPECS (revealed by SONY AND MICROSOFT) between the two from Eurogamer/Digital Foundry hold more merit than a simple "The difference is small, and I don’t really need to worry about it"... No matter WHO said the quote... LOL! And not to mention Kojima literally JUST presented his game at the Xbox One E3 conference. What the hell do you expect him to say??? XD "Xbox One is WAAAAAY less powerful than PS4!, Sorry Microsoft...., even though I presented MGSV at YOUR conference!!!! I don't want people to buy the INFERIOR VERSION!!!!" Jesus, you guys need to be more smarter than this. -_-
Whoops, double post...
@lelo Uuhm killzone shadowfall will 30 fps but read this article http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
just like i thought no xbox fanboy said or showed any thing that can back them up ..they just hit the disagree and run to insults and smile like they change the facts by doing this @BallsEye no ps fans are smarter because they can look at the official specs http://i.imgur.com/Z4CvNT1.... and see the difference in power than to trust a dev that all he want is that you buy his game on systems there is no such thing as "it only much more powerful on paper" if it more powerful then it is more powerful no If or But here....this is not ps3 vs xbox360 deny it all you want ...those are facts @lelo hmmmmm, that's the dev choice not the console also read this http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... http://www.gamesradar.com/k... for the love of god the official specs are in front of your eyes and you still can't accept it ?! i'm done here you guys just will go on and ignore the facts good for you guys ...what ever help you sleep the night
Well what do you expect Kojima to say. If he said their was(which their is) a difference MS wouldn't be happy.
"Microsoft uses proprietary connectors wherever it can. The only reason for this is to FORCE you to buy THEIR OWN PRODUCTS at INFLATED PRICES. Sony uses industry standard connectors for everything, you can use ANY headset, peripherals etc EVEN THOSE OF A RIVAL COMPANY! Anybody who thinks the two companies are comparable is fooling themselves, everything Microsoft ever does is designed to maximise profit, every tiny detail. They want every single penny they can possibly get from you and produce an environment where there is no competition to their products. You can't compare the morality of the two, ms are a cancer on the world." -Angeljuice-
"This is N4G. It's Sony land. I wouldn't take most users (blind fanboys) from N4G seriously, they only talk crap" That is a load of crap. This site has just as many PC elitist, xbox fanboys and Nintendo fanboys as well. Notice how I dont have 10 bubbles.
really, 50% in tflops is not a big difference, nobody in the PC world would do an "upgrade" from a 7770 to 7850, which is basically what we're talking about, the difference is just too small, both are mid range GPUs today.
Its well known the PSN eSports communities are well behind, less developed on 3rd party games like COD and BF - with nothing even comparing to Halos pro scene. The XB1 will continue to assist the growth of eSports by superior recording abilities and partnerships with Twitch.tv as well as opening up their closed system (XBL) thru Skype You need a decent OS to handle the smooth unobtusive switching/running between applications gamers on XB1 will have at their disposal. XBOX360 the eSport console of choice made even better for next gen with XB1
Whoa Nelly.....Totally different site. Sony got no love. But hey great games has a unifying effect...
@savage beast lol Sony is the one that started the proprietary everything to milk money out of consumbers lol. You must be 12 years old or something not to know that where do you think microsoft learned it from. They were jealous of all the money sony was making off of extra controllers and all the addons they sold at stupid high prices.
@Sonic200 I see you can't read with understanding, dear child. First of all MS NEVER RELEASED THE OFFICIAL SPECS. Secondly, AGAIN it's RAW SPECS ON PAPER, not architecture test and its benefits. Stop trying to be smart ass, you're just making yourself look stupid (godly in the eyes of other fanboys tho). Real world performance can be very different than raw specs. @Ezz2013 Haha, all you do is look at a picture with numbers and think you know everything. You don't know SH!T about how it works, how one part can offload another part to give it an edge. Isn't it how the praised ps3 worked before? With TEH CELL offloading GPU? Now when you got eSRAM and move engines to offload GPU and CPU in xbox one you suddenly say ONLY RAW SPECS MATTER. To remind you xbox360 IS more powerful in raw specs than ps3. You fanboys are hilarious. Oh look I can paste specs! (ps3 vs xbox 360) http://www.examiner.com/ima... http://img163.echo.cx/img16... BY DISAGREEING WITH ME THAT RAW PAPER SPECS ARE ONLY IMPORTANT YOU ALSO AGREE THAT XBOX 360 IS MUCH MORE POWERFUL THAN PS3 (as it has way better raw specs)
I applaud your comment, the power of these consoles should be close. The mouth of developers is enough for me. The PS4 pricing is a great move by Sony, and X1 has great exclusive line ups. I will be getting both these consoles day one.