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Submitted by Moonman 966d ago | article

Sony: 'Of Course' PS4 Can Do Cloud Computing

Shacknews writes: "Microsoft has been keen to promote Xbox One's use of the cloud. Xbox One's official website, for example, states that "thanks to the power of the cloud, Xbox One will keep getting better." Cloud computing supposedly makes Xbox One four times more powerful. It also justifies why Xbox One is effectively an always-on console."

"But what about Sony's next-gen machine? Sure, it can stream games via the cloud-powered Gaikai. But can it also follow Microsoft's step in offloading computation to the cloud? "Of course," Sony's Shuhei Yoshida said." (PS4, Sony, Xbox One)

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iGAM3R-VIII  +   966d ago | Well said
So I guess this is another thing that PS4 has matched the X1 with, well then One can only assume that the PS4 will annihilate One product...

^gif seems appropriate...
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US8F  +   966d ago
Consumers first, Gaming second, and everything else last, that would be the reason for PS4's success. Xbox One, well, they got it all backwards.
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Destrania  +   966d ago
Consumers/developers first
Army_of_Darkness  +   966d ago
I think Sony is pushing it there...
Is it really necessary to chop off xbone's last leg to stand on??! Do you really need MS to crawl it's way to Next Gen?? :-D
abzdine  +   966d ago
This is where gaikai will show the world how cloud really works.

Greatness awaits
SonicRush15  +   966d ago
I think shuhei wouldn't have said anything about cloud unless some one asked lol
fr0sty  +   966d ago

That's because he knows that offloading computation to the cloud in this day and age is so limited in use that it is pretty much worthless. Where people do have the bandwidth to perform limited computational tasks, it isn't always steady. Rural areas do good to get 3mbps with terrible latency. Why hype features only a percentage of us will actually get to enjoy? Why hype them beyond what they are actually capable of? I know why... He knows the hardware in PS4 is more than adequate. He doesn't have to blow clouds of smoke up everyone's ass to make us think PS4 will hold it's own. No smoke and mirrors, just simple math. 4>1.
dcbronco  +   966d ago
So we've gone from the cloud being a marketing gimmick to it suddenly being a viable tool. I guess it doesn't exist until Sony says so. At least fosty is consistent.
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FITgamer  +   966d ago
@dc did you even read the article? He just said it could be implemented. It's not like SONY is banking on the cloud like M$ going around spreading BS saying their console will be 4x as powerful because of the cloud. The PS4 will be more powerful than X1 because of hardware and no one can deny that. Even the author said it's all still "rubbish" at the end.
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Hicken  +   966d ago
Slap yourself.

Sony saying they're capable doesn't make it any more viable. And, frankly, nobody's saying that it does.

Well, except you.
ABizzel1  +   966d ago
I've been saying this for the longest since it's what Gaikai and Onlive were doing to begin with. The PS4 has the benefit of having Gaikai as it's service, because they can follow the same method Gaikai used. Run all the games on top end PC's and stream them to the consoles.

That prevents the need for cloud computing to begin with if you can simply stream the game for a PC that runs the with higher settings. The cost is games will likely on run in 1080p @ 30fps streaming and may have suffer from lag depending on your connection (which will also effect cloud computing).

PS4 has the advantage technology wise with the cloud, the advantage X1 has is the sheer number of servers they'll have, but this will become less of an issue now that PlayStation 4 gamers are required to purchase PS+ to play online (which will likely increase Sony's server count, but they still have to play catch up with MS who has 8 years of XBLG backing them).
dcbronco  +   966d ago
I don't need to read the article. I'm commenting on fake people that claimed it wasn't possible. That is until Sony says they could do it too. It's just like every other made up complaint.

MS makes you pay twice for your game because of charging for Live. Oh Sony's doing it too. It's not a big deal. I understand it cost a lot money to run servers and provide those services.

I like that game. No longer a Sony exclusive. It doesn't look that good, I'll skip that one.
thereapersson  +   966d ago
The difference here is, Sony isn't charging to access things like Netflix, et cetera. MS is the king of making you pay twice just to access services you are already paying for. Someone who never plays multiplayer on PS4 will never have to sign up for PlayStation Plus if they don't want to, nor will they have to keep a persistent internet connection active.
Ritsujun  +   966d ago
It hurts to watch MS slapping themselves.

MRMagoo123  +   966d ago

None said it wasnt possible ppl have just been saying and showing with evidence that it wont work the way MS keeps saying it will, it wont increase the power of the console by 4 times thats a fact, the only reason they came out with this crap was because sony revealed a more powerful console than they where expecting so they had to make some BS pr to dribble forth and hope ppl eat it.

I dont think sony could do what MS says they are gonna do either. There is way to much involved for MS plans to work the only things it can benefit is static things in games that dont need real time calculations.Even in 10 years from now they wont be doing what MS has claimed they will do.
badz149  +   966d ago
aren't people forgetting something here?
the PS3s around the world has been taking part in the Folding@HOME project which is a derivative of cloud computing to assist in research for disease and cancer early 2007! the PS3 has done cloud computing like 6 years ago, so why doubt the PS4? like they said...OF COURSE PS4 can do cloud computing!
jon1234  +   966d ago
it should be developers first, because if they get treated right, we get good games :)
wellard  +   966d ago
lets discuss the ms business model.

Shareholders, NSA, NFL, PBS, ABC, BBC, ITV, Sky, Kinect shovelware, Developers then games and
gamers. I dont understand why its getting so much bad press /s
Baka-akaB  +   965d ago

Do you even lsiten to yourself ? Any online machine can do cloud computing technically . The difference lies with the claims and BS about what's realistically possible with it .

One dropbox or sky drive account , and suddenly now everone is an expert in an old tech with a new coat of marketing mpainting geez ...
Kleptic  +   965d ago
^i see what you're saying...but cloud storage and cloud processing are two completely different animals...

My opinion, mostly because i work for a cloud processing start up through Cisco...this is NOT relevant to gaming...yet...

I almost guarantee there isn't a single person on this website that has access to a residential connection that can utilize any degree of cloud processing in a real time processing is currently a great way to mimic a rendering farm, not a real time 'super computer' that will quickly interact back with you...

and before people start up the 'my ISP has 100mbps down!!!'...not relevant...thats a peak download speed, and doesn't address anything in terms of network latency...residential connections are not built for this...ISP's like the control of slowly dealing with 'requests' (an uploaded packet from your devices), but then quickly plumbing what you requested back to you (like streaming a video)...No current ISP's handle requests and pushes the same, which creates a situation where your device is extremely slow to be heard, but then given what it wants relatively quickly after...the conversation between your device and the 'cloud' is extremely lob-sided...even with a 'fast' connection...ISP's have fundamentally built their infrastructure this way, there is no secret way to fix this without fully rebuilding it...which, oddly, is something both MS and Sony have side stepped when talking about it...

and this is simply why neither Sony, nor MS, are anywhere close to a cloud processed real time gaming way to spin that in any positive way...MS loves saying 'well the cloud will process the fog in the back ground' or some shat like that...if the cloud is doing it, it will be such a low priority bit of processing that it won't be noticeable...and could've easily been done by better optimization to begin with...

Sony and MS may be ready for it...but your, and my, ISP isn't anywhere close...and they aren't going to budge on this situation any time soon...
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MWong  +   965d ago
^ good bit of info there Kleptic and it makes sense.

@ badz149 ... I copletely forgot about that, when they had that E3 conference and everybody was like WTF Sony.

I would assume anything the XBone can do the PS4 can do. Sadly anything the PS4 can do the XBone cannot do. I was planning on getting both consoles agin this generation, but M$ has truely shown me they don't give a damn about me as a consume.

If I don't have internet I should keep playing my 360, that right there shows me your head is so far up in the clouds you don't give a damn about me.

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dcbronco  +   965d ago
@Baka-akaB and your comment sounds like you know a lot. Maybe you have the ability to read a book and remember how some things work, but I have a feeling you lack vision or the ability to push technology forward. You're one of those let's stay in the cave, keep moving no food will grow from those seeds people.


Well reasoned argument. But I think from the wording of some of the comments that MS has something different they are doing. And looking at Some of the patents they have filed. You seem like a smart guy so I'll throw this at you. They filed a Patent for a system where two GPUs wrote to the same scene. Would it be possible to have part of the game rendered and streamed from the cloud and then have the consoles GPU produce more urgent code handled itself and then added to the stream? Basically like a green screen effect. Kind of like a proximity rendering for the console and the cloud rendering for everything else. I also think they have made some new compression techniques. I believe the move engines and ESRAM might be more about the cloud and less about bandwidth. That is why I believe they are so determined to have it always connected.
Kleptic  +   964d ago
^thanks man

Well i should've first said, the company i work for does nothing with graphics rendering...but does do a lot with modeling. I'm a DB admin though, so i don't really know the ins and outs of the actual coding...just what boxes to put them in haha.

But, i have seen that patent listing, and that does relate to what MS used as an example with 'fog being rendered by the cloud'...On paper that does seem entirely possible...however, in my experience, having two lines of gpu related instructions that out of sync with each other (one would be nearly instant, the other would be WAY behind it, and there for need to be requested WAY before it...if that makes sense) will create a procedure for doing it that would be more work than necessary...on the developer side i mean.

So what i'm getting at, that from where i'm sitting, the cloud would only be able to do processing that was so simple, and so out of touch with anything real-time, that i just can't see how it would be any real benefit.

The fog thing for example. If a gpu in cloud was processing that, you immediately lose any dynamic nature it might have. It would have to be just a back drop with its own sets of physics and procedural wind or something, that could not be changed by any of your actions. Scripted situations like that are not taxing at all. Current gen consoles can already do many effects like this locally without much trouble (killzone 2 for example), so i just see it as a complex way of doing something that isn't all that resource heavy to begin with.

They also said the cloud could do 'lighting', which would impose the same problem. If the cloud is doing it, completely out of sync with the real time local rendering, you'd have to compromise the dynamic nature of it. It could only do a global lighting system that slowly changes through a written script, not lighting that has dynamic nature, like firing a weapon and the related muzzle flare, or explosions, etc...the cloud would have so much latency with that, they couldn't sync it with your actions...

but we'll see...i'm no expert...its just i find this heavily laced with marketing, more than concrete technology that is ready to be implemented...
dcbronco  +   964d ago
Thanks for answering Kleptic. I understand what you explained. I just have a feeling this is more than a marketing campaign. It's like many said streaming a movie wouldn't be possible. Then it was a HD movie at today's speeds. I believe they have something up their sleeves. But I respect your expertise. We'll all see in the coming months and years.
jmc8888  +   966d ago
The cloud is vastly overrated.

But xbox has nothing to stand on, so they breathe some fumes, get delusional, and start talking about the cloud.
Dlacy13g  +   966d ago
Overated? Is that why Sony is launching Gaikai sometime in 2014....a service 100% dependent on the cloud?
Hicken  +   966d ago
Gaikai is meant more for streaming content than computing, though I imagine it could be set to the task competently enough.

The difference is that MS is banking much of their system's future and potential on the supposed capability of the cloud to compensate for what their console lacks.
MRMagoo123  +   966d ago
I think jmc8888 should have phrased it , the way MS says cloud will work for games is BS not overrated.
gameonbro   965d ago | Spam
first1NFANTRY  +   966d ago
All these features and the ps4 still manage to be cheaper than the xbone
TheFamous1  +   966d ago
Probably would be the same price if Microsoft wasn't so dependent on including the Kinect.
gameonbro   965d ago | Spam
BattleTorn  +   965d ago
Just putting this out there - anyone else wonder if the price point reflects the fact that a few most ago Sony had its' top 50 execs give up their bonuses?
DOOMZ  +   966d ago
Except their cloud is nowhere near the size of Xbox one's!
sonic989  +   966d ago
did you believe that 300,000 server marketing stunt
btw virtual servers are very common these days
JamieL  +   965d ago
@ sonic
Well if they're so common then why is that 300,000 number just a PR stunt and so hard to believe? Also $499.00 is "ridiculous", what was your view when the PS3's price was $599.00? I’m sure that was well worth the money right? Everyone likes to hate on only 1 company here. I hate to see such close minded people spreading bullshit like their opinion is law. We still need to see MS implement and prove its plan, but at least they have the BALL'S to try something new. All Sony is doing is perfecting their already existing formula(not that that’s bad), just doing the same thing better, but it’s still the same thing. Last gen Nintendo had the balls to try something new, and we see who won that. Sony is pretty much cloning what made the 360 successful. If you disagree with that then you are an average n4g user, but the friendly architecture, check, reaching out to indie developers, check, charging for MP, check. I am excited to see what Sony comes up with, and to be honest I feel the always online thing on the XBone will ensure the PS4 will dominate sales this gen no doubt, but MS, if they do it right, could change and move gaming forward. They could very well crash and burn, but they are bringing something all new to gaming without a doubt, It may be good, or it may be bad, but at least they aren’t stagnate. I just don’t wait to SEE what happens instead of hating so early in the game.
Kleptic  +   965d ago
'their cloud is nowhere near the size of Xbox one's!'???

the company i work for has a cloud processing network of over 5 million dedicated machines/servers...NOT ONE OF THEM connected to a residential ISP...These are work machines networked across the North East US, all connected through commercial broadband with a 1/4 of the latency compared to the average home broadband connection...

and as a company...we're no where near capable of real time rendering and interaction as a 'whole' to any degree...It would be an incredible system for making a pixar movie, as a complex rendering farm...but having all these networked machines talking back and forth at the speed you would need to have a real time environment, where requests are heard at the same speed as information pushing...all with total latency underneath roughly 100ms (which would still be bad from an input lag stand point)...its simply not possible...

Do you guys even understand what has to happen in a cloud processed situation? You have to send input from a controller to your console (which alone has roughly 50ms worth of latency, some games much worse) then has to leave your machine as a request, pass through your router with any of its firewalls, get to the ISP...queued into the environment as a request while the request server figures out where it wants to go...leave the ISP to yet another ISP which is handling the cloud processing system, be queued...again...finally hit the cloud processing system, the request is then carried out, pipe it back to the back end ISP, back to your ISP, downloaded to your machine through the same router and everything...get processed by your console, converted into video, shot through HDMI to your TV...and you finally see it in action...

remember...any latency over about 60'ish ms total...and you'll notice it as lag in which things on screen aren't happening in relation to your inputs...multiplayer games fix this with gimmicks to make it not as noticeable, as your toon isn't where you think it is in relation to other players...but there is no way to fake it when it comes to input lag...if it doesn't happen nearly immediately, its deemed unplayable...

thats keeping it as simple as possible...and even the most hopeless of tech-scared people could see how much of a nightmare that is...

I promise everyone...Sony's cloud thing will be for streaming and extremely simple gaming...MS's is a PR mess...that will have no effect on its 'future power' as a home gaming console...maybe next generation, but even then it won't happen until the infrastructure of residential network providers are rebuilt from the ground up...
koolaid251  +   966d ago
In order to use the cloud you must be connected to the internet all of the time thats the whole point of the cloud.
jmc8888  +   966d ago
No, because only games that need the cloud require to be online when they want to use that game.

You think they need to use the cloud for the OS?

That's the point. Choosing to be online to play online is not the same as needing to be online to do anything.
Heartnet  +   966d ago
Just cause it can doenst mean it will.
nypifisel  +   966d ago
Well for us who knows about computers in general knew that all Microsoft said was PR bullshit. Like they had some magical secret - The clouds are just servers... Anyone could do that if they wished to invest in it. Cloud computing is not feasible today though seeing how the internet infrastructure of the world isn't up to par.
gameonbro   965d ago | Spam
nypifisel  +   965d ago
Please... -_- Sony isn't pushing the cloud like MS does, cause it's not feasible. WHEN the time comes and the infrastructure is in place Sony could use the cloud for computing as well.. Jeez, read my OP before commenting, makes you look stupid. What Sony is doing in 2014 with the cloud (Streaming) is however more likely to work now (if you have a good enough connection)
christian hour  +   965d ago
@gameonbro linking to renderman to prove your point just further shows your ignorance towards how these thigns work.

You obviously don't know the difference between using the cloud to boost rendering farms for lengthy CGI rendering hours and using cloud for rendering visuals plus instant user feedback on the spot. Cloud is only useful for one, guess which one it is. Stop being an idiot and do some actual god damn research.

Cloud will not do what Microsoft said it would do, not in this day and age, and especially not with the way internet distribution currently is globally.

The point of this article want "hey sony has cloud, now cloud is cool" it was "Hey people who think cloud is magic, its not, this is what it is, anyone can do it, ps3 does it already, it is nowhere near capable of doing what MS claims it will, not for at least another 10-15 years at the earliest, stop being a blind fan boy, HEY! LISTEN!" but of course if you had actually read the article, you would have realized that. But you didn't, and you also didn't read shit about renderman, or cloud computing, or anything for that matter, because if you did, you wouldn't say silly things like "no one knows what can or cant be done yet" because we do, we do know what can and cant be done because the technology is not new, in fact nothing in any of the nex gen consoles is new technology.

Also your comment about even pixar realizing you can do more on cloud than with one computer... If you even knew what render-farms were you'd smack yourself in the face for that sentence, of course they know that. Every animation company knows that. Thats why theyve been using render farms for over 20 years!

Sorry for the angry rant but your ignorance just hit a nerve I guess.
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alb1899  +   966d ago
Of curse they can do it, but not as Microsoft and 300,000 servers.
nypifisel  +   966d ago
Microsoft doesn't have 300.000 physical servers, they're with most certainty counting virtual servers. And why couldn't they do it like Microsoft? It's just servers - If I had the money I could buy 300.000 servers. Jeez.
alb1899  +   966d ago
You just said it......if you have the money. You think business are going well for SONY or you are just a person that think that SONY means play station?
I never said that the servers were physical there but how can you be so sure that they aren't?
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detroit2cali  +   965d ago
You must be retarded if you think Sony can't afford servers. You must think Sony means PlayStation because they are doing fine. Microsoft is known for being cheap, that is why people are calling BS on the physical servers. I really hope English isn't your first language because your sentences are terrible.
alb1899  +   965d ago
I'm trying hard with the English!
SONY as a company is not doing well in any of his products but play station.
Sells in computers, tvs, MP3 players, dvd players, blueray players, phones are down.....SONY isn't what use to be.
So yes, I think SONY doesn't have the money power that Microsoft you want to discus about that?
oof46  +   966d ago
My absolute favorite line of the article:

"Both consoles can do cloud computing. Although be warned--it's all pretty much a load of rubbish either way. Hooray for marketing!"
MRMagoo123  +   966d ago
that sums up all the cloud computing BS MS are spinning, anyone that thinks the xbone will get any kind of extra power via the cloud are dreaming, its not gonna happen.
gameonbro   965d ago | Spam
oof46  +   965d ago
@gameonbro: I did not say I believe or don't believe in cloud computing. I said it was my favorite line of the article.
alittleshakey  +   966d ago
Has anyone bothered to ask Sony how many servers THEY have to back up that claim? That's what I thought. Just taking their word that "sure we can do that".
NeoTribe  +   966d ago
I can taste your tears.
tarbis  +   966d ago
You truly believe that M$ have 300k servers? I pity you.
rainslacker  +   966d ago
Even assuming that MS has 300K physical servers, they won't all be dedicated to the X1. Azure provides hundreds of services to thousands of companies.

Dedicating 300K physical cloud servers to the X1 would make the X1 the biggest money sink in gaming history, far surpassing the loss Sony took on the PS3.

There's some good info in that Wiki for those interested in how it works, and how it's deployed around the world.

Of particular note, and more on topic to my comment, note the amount of power that the dublin data center uses(witch MS claims to have 100K servers). Now figure out how much money it costs to run one of those things for a year, and my point should be clear as day. For comparison, the average home uses about 16,000 kWh(note the k) per year(you can do the conversion, I'm tired). Now imagine all the maintenance to hardware and professional staff that has to be employed at each one.

Of more particular note. Each data center uses between 1800-2500 servers. 300K physical servers means they would have 120 data centers globally if you take the top end 2500 per location. Now figure out how much that would cost to run...just for X1? way in hell.

Edit: Scroll to the bottom of the wiki...they provide some "significant outages" over the past year or so.
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grimmweisse  +   966d ago
Salty tears indeed!
wellard  +   966d ago
Just like Microsoft im willing to bet that they dont have anywhere near 300,000 servers.

People who are trying to justify this MS cloud rubbish really need to sit down and read up on a few server related subjects. ie: Virtual servers and latency. So far all weve seen "the cloud" actually do is is race your profile against your friends profile while your offline. Now not to be petty but why would i give a flying fluke, i dont give a rats bottom about racing my profile while im offline. Its not going to give me any advantage in the game at all. Name 1. Yeah so they say you will earn rewards while your sleeping. Well so will everyone else, which means that in game prices will be adjusted to reflect this so theres no benefit at all. Its a gimmick.

If this cloud stuff worked and it could make the console 4 times more powerful dont you think ms would have released proof, especially considering all of the bad press they have been facing since the reveal?
wastedcells  +   966d ago
Sony has been all about the games but I think people will be super surprised and happy when they start to show what else they have planned. Especially when it comes to cloud services. There is a reason why they invested so much in this technology. Personally I think Sony has a lot more to announce and show. They have played this really smart. We will see a lot more games as well. We still have gamecon (the European E3) and the Tokyo game show coming before the PS4 launch.
Christopher  +   966d ago
A phone can do cloud gaming....
showtimefolks  +   966d ago
its just funny hearing from MS that its Marathon not a race well sony has been saying that for almost 2 decades now lol

now matter how MS or its fanbse spin this fact is ps4 will sell very well and xbox one will struggle, xbox one will do fine in the states IMO but world wide its gonna be a big struggle
JamieL  +   964d ago
So, if that's the one thing they copy good. I think it's funny that people like you are praising the PS4 to no end (which, for the record, I think is praise worthy) after a whole gen of bashing the 360. You know all Sony is doing is cloning what made the 360 a success. I know no one on here will look at it objectively otherwise they would see this. Again I say friendly architecture, check, reaching out to indie developers, check, charging for MP, check. You all bashed the 360 to no end, now can’t keep your tongues in your mouths when Sony does the SAME THING. Now MS has the BALLS to try to bring a new concept to gaming and it’s right back on the hate wagon. LOL now MS does have a lot to proove, and I’m not saying the XBone will catch on, or even be good, but one thing you can bet on is if it is successful Sony will copy it, then it will get some N4G love. I’m excited to see how they implement the new capability’s.
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miDnIghtEr20C_SfF  +   966d ago
But that means you need to be online to take advantage of the PS4 cloud. LoL.. which then means needing to be always online to take advantage of it.

Ya, some people will say I won't use that.

That's not the point though. If you want to use the cloud and what it offers, YOU NEED TO BE ONLINE. It's so amusing.
dennett316  +   966d ago
Yes, and consumers who don't want to connect - or can't - have the option of ignoring the games that use the cloud on PS4.
With Xbox One, there is NO option, you HAVE to be online at least once every 24 hours. See the difference yet?
Personally, I hope no game ever has cloud functions as standard, because the second your internet connection drops, your game is screwed. Funny how this so-called "future" that MS seem to be rushing towards has so many more points of failure that will hurt the end user in the long run...almost like they don't give a damn about their customers so long as they are able to force control upon them.
Cinuous  +   966d ago
yea you'll need to be online to use cloud, but for people with no internet connection there's offline gaming, what dont you get about that?? your so quick to try and prove a point but fail to understand where people are coming from about being able to play there console if they dont have an internet connection, online isnt a requirement for the ps4. your complete lack of understanding....its so amusing.
Malice-Flare  +   966d ago
PS3 titles can do cloud computing...
Folding@home says hi...

Demon's/Dark Souls also say hello...
Kaneda  +   966d ago
Can PS4 does 4D like PS3 did? and 1080p 120 fps like PS3.. That was some of the marketing points when PS3 was launched... :)
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SatanSki  +   966d ago
"Linking, matchmaking... there are already many computations being done on the cloud side,"

Yoshida was mumbling again like he didnt know what kind of cloud computing he was asked about. This guy is annoying me more and more
Fishermenofwar  +   965d ago
"You're deceptive" Ralph Wiggum voice
BallsEye  +   965d ago
My phone could do cloud computing, also my handwatch and a tv coz all it needs is internet connection to do so BUT IT WILL NEVER BE DOING CLOUD COMPUTING. Why? Because it requires a huge server power, amazing software and to be designed for it from scratch to be able to fully use it. Eventho PS4 is a preffered system it will not have cloud abilities like XBOX ONE do and you are a sheep if you get fooled so easily by few well written words.
FrigidDARKNESS  +   966d ago
They are talking about cloud computing but really not pushing it like MS.
Enemy  +   966d ago
Lol they'll push it when they need to. Sony already has the most powerful console ever created. It's the last thing they care about right now.
Skips  +   966d ago
Pretty much. 50% MORE RAW POWER.

7GB of much faster and efficient RAM used for games compared to only 5GB of slower and less efficient RAM for games.

Not only that.

But stack the MAJOR power gap on top of Sony's 1st party devs such as SSM and Naughty Dog who push each game to the max and probably have more talent than most of Microsoft's 1st party combined.

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jmc8888  +   966d ago
Actually it could be higher.

Remember folks 1.8 vs 1.2 is 50 percent greater.

If they downclock it....

1.8 vs 0.8 = 125 percent more raw power.

So depending on what they actually release...and remember time is now a factor as well, the PS4 it seems will be between 50 and 125 percent more powerful.
imt558  +   966d ago

Yes, they did downclock the GPU. You know why? Because they play XO games on PC at E3. They didn't have XO ready for E3.
a_bro  +   966d ago
they paid $400 million for Gaikai for a reason, and it wasnt only for just streaming.

at the end of the day, this cloud computing stuff is just is all BS..
#2.2 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(46) | Disagree(7) | Report | Reply
Enemy  +   966d ago
We've seen a couple developers call out Microsoft on it already. I can't help but crack up whenever I see them bring up "cloud computing" because they don't even know what it really means, lol.
wishingW3L  +   966d ago
or how it'll work.
Heartnet  +   966d ago
Cloud is basically the future tbh... Shifting some of the games reliance on the system to servers and allowing the developers to update things in real time is just crazy and a whole new experience..

Sony is still stuck in the past and they need to focus on more than just streaming games via gaikai cause as with OnLive that will fail...
a_bro  +   966d ago
As I said, there's a reason why they paid $400 million for gaikai alone, and it isn't just to stream games, it goes far beyond that.

That's why multiplayer is behind a paywall.
#2.2.4 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(1) | Report
PS-Analog  +   966d ago
@ Heartnet
Streaming games has one huge benefit, play a demo of a game without a huge download. Play a demo in seconds not hours.
Qrphe  +   966d ago
"but really not pushing it like MS"

Thank god
#2.3 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(23) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
Blackdeath_663  +   966d ago
what has MS pushed they talk about all this cloud computing nonsense but didn't give a single example of it. sony atleast has gaikai and clearly stated what it will be used for i.e you can stream your games via the cloud. the only example they showed was drivatar in forza 5 but that is nothing new the idea of having a ghost AI that replicates your movements has existed for a long time tekken on psp had a system where you can record your movements and upload your ghost so that it can fight against other people you were also able to share and download and fight against other peoples ghosts. that game did not require the cloud there are whole forums set up to share other people's ghosts so to me drivatar is nothing new almost a complete rip-off
#2.4 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(14) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
SniperControl  +   966d ago
Driveatar! That cracks me up. Lol. Driveatar........
DEEBO  +   966d ago
lol dude the man knows what he's talking hard is it to understand that MS put all their chips with kinect,sony went with a more powerful system.just enjoy what the xbox has to offer for you.if you want the stronger system go with the ps4,it's that simple.if theres some xbox1 games you want to play,buy the xbox.
rageus  +   966d ago
I don't think you're allowed to be reasonable or rational on the internet.
jmc8888  +   966d ago
What's reasonable about forgetting about the DRM and spying?

I'd say forgetting about that is unreasonable and irrational.

Acting like they don't matter, don't exist, or won't affect you is entirely incorrect and doesn't shield you.

Xbox One is going to be a big hacker target. People do have spotty or no internet access. People do have data caps. Kinect 2 will exploit you, just will it be big or small. Bombarding you with ads or making your insurance cost more, ratting you out to school/employment, etc.

And if the gov't wants it, they'll get it, and share it with everyone. Audio/video too.

Anyone that ignores that is by definition not being rational or reasonable.
#2.5.2 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(1) | Report
BallsEye  +   965d ago


I bet you got that facebook account with all your info and your relatives info...timeline of your whole damn life and twitter account to let everyone know when you make a sandwich.
lucaskeller1  +   966d ago
gaikai > 300k servers
Belking  +   966d ago
If they can ever get it
HammadTheBeast  +   966d ago
Well, Gaikai has proven itself much more than "300 k servers".
Drekken  +   966d ago
Yeah, they paid all that money for a service that doesn't work.

The extended time is to get a huge library from psx, ps2, and ps3 games. Plus it needs to be fully integrated into the Sony servers.
Qrphe  +   966d ago
Gaikai holds the Guiness World Record for fastest streaming gaming service. I'd say MS really has taken up a challenge lol
Machiavellian  +   966d ago
MS Azure platform runs whole companies, Its Pixar rendering farm for those great looking movies you enjoy. I believe Sony has a long way to go before they are even considered in the space where MS is at. MS cloud platform competes with Amazon and Google, Sony isn't even considered a player.

Stream a game like a movie is no different then Netflix streaming a movie.
TheFallenAngel  +   966d ago
I thought this was said since they announced it? Sony just doesn't say it for 30 minutes. Xbone is going to be in trouble.
Belking  +   966d ago
Sony doesn't have any cloud computing built into their console and Gaikai isn't cloud computing. It's just a cloud based streaming service. MS Azure is something totally different built from the ground up. No dev has come out and said anything about PS4 titles utilizing cloud computing. Sony isn't a technology company. That the reason why they had to buy gaikai because they know it would take them many years to build their own streaming service.
#5 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(12) | Disagree(55) | Report | Reply
AznGaara  +   966d ago
You're still streaming something to your console its still the same concept. Why can't you wrap our head around that? It's actually more impressive to be able to stream full games to the console than it is to stream bits of AI or physics. Also "Sony isnt technology company" please... stop... please.
Belking  +   966d ago
"It's actually more impressive to be able to stream full games to the console than it is to stream bits of AI or physics"

Sorry buddy, but you're wrong on that one. Streaming a game is similar to streaming a movie in which is already done by Netfix, smart tv and others. Cloud computing is not the same. And no sony isn't a technology company. They are entertainment/electronics company. if they are technology then explain why they had to buy Gaikai to provide streaming? It's because that is not their area.
Heartnet  +   966d ago
It may look more impressive but the results from what ive seen are less than satisfactory... unless ur runnning a lag free high speed internet connection with alot of bandwidth it offers no advantages.

However cloud computing offers alot more choice and ease of use for teh develoepr and by the sounds of it opens alot more oppurtunites for a more immperssive experience
one2thr  +   966d ago

Dude Sony is to Hardware, as Microsoft is to Software...

Dont be one of those folks that say "Microsoft makes/manufacture computers", or "Made the first computer"...

When they're not, they make the Software (Windows) that does onto the hardware (computers) Dell,Hp,toshiba, etc =/= Microsoft...

Sony makes laptops, with Windows on them... Do you get the picture?
4me2  +   966d ago
There is a huge difference between streaming a movie and a game. I hope you know that a movie is passive form entertainment, it doesn't change its context because you pressed pause, stop, ff..... once you go to your favorite part it is the same as it was yesterday, is now and will be tomorrow.
That's why you can buffer it.

Games, on other hand, have randomness to itself (even co called linear one), they depend on your input to generate output frame which is different each time you play. I think this why we play them and called them games, not movies. So does running a game in Gaikai/cloud require computation power?????
FrigidDARKNESS  +   966d ago
Thank God this guy is telling the truth. Sony would have a massive task building up a cloud infrastructure. This may not be in Sony's budget. Microsoft & Samsung collaborated to build the worlds fastest and most efficient cloud server.
#5.2 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(25) | Report | Reply
MysticStrummer  +   966d ago
"Sony doesn't have any cloud computing built into their console"

Neither does Microsoft. You're falling for marketing.
Belking  +   966d ago
"You're falling for marketing."

yea, kinda like those Toy Story graphics sony said we would get with the
Rainstorm81  +   966d ago

Soooooo you're saying you know its marketing and you are still going to fall for it??
adorie  +   966d ago
"Sony isn't a technology company."
Ignorance can be corrected through teaching, learning, but yours must be ignored for the earlier won't help you come to terms.

Microsoft isn't a software company.

Do you find something wrong with this sentence?
#5.4 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(26) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
ginsunuva  +   966d ago
If it has internet connection it can take computations from online.

How do you think websites work? Calculations are done on the server and the result sent to your computer.

The whole "cloud" word has been used recently to fool dumb people into thinking there's something new. Cloud = on a remote computer through the internet.
#5.5 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(13) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Heartnet  +   966d ago
Congratz. But still this is the first time being done on a home console. And its starting to offer more than just calculations lol
Sarobi  +   966d ago
"cloud computing built into their console"

This alone shows you have no idea how any of this stuff actually works.
Heartnet  +   966d ago
I know what your saying lol but what i think he means is that Gaikai is just another app whereas Cloud computing is built into everything MS does
MysticStrummer  +   966d ago
"yea, kinda like those Toy Story graphics sony said we would get with the"

Except Sony never said that. Microsoft did.

Try again, little fella.
#5.7 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
Belking  +   966d ago
Yes they did. Xbox wasn't even announced when they said that so nice I don't blame you for denying it though. It was such rubbish
#5.7.1 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(14) | Report
SITH  +   966d ago
Actually sony said, "toy story."

Microsoft said, "toy story 2."
MysticStrummer  +   966d ago
@SITH - Read the CNN article you linked. That's not a quote from Sony.

@Belking - What difference does it make when it was said? Microsoft directly claimed to be delivering Toy Story graphics. Sony did not.

Google it. Sony said PS2 would deliver graphics comparable to "movie-quality 3D graphics in real time."

They never said Toy Story. Microsoft did, for 360 graphics.
#5.7.3 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(1) | Report
MysticStrummer  +   966d ago
You're holding onto a myth with that PS2 Toy Story thing, so it's not surprising you'd hold onto the idea of the cloud.

Sony said this :

"The quality of the resulting screen image is comparable to
movie-quality 3D graphics in real time."

and journalists turned that into "Toy Story" and even "Jurassic Park".
KentBlake  +   966d ago
No, they're probably a grocery store.

Come on, stop with the nonsense.
grimmweisse  +   966d ago
Please explain to everyone here what cloud computing hardware is? Because its seems that you are clutching at straws at the moment making statements without backing anything up.

There is no magical hardware for it. The PS4, Xbox One and PC ( yes there are more powerful pcs compared to next gen consoles, before pc elitists rage)are running similar hardware and architecture. So whatever platform you thinking about, cloud based services can be utilitiezed but it doesn't mean they will use them.

And yes, gaikai is cloud computing, It's cloud streaming, you know computations done server side on cloud servers to stream the game data back to the user, tell me if I am wrong.

The same like cloud hosting services like Dropbox where you can host files on cloud servers. Just because MS built a super cloud service with Azure, doesn't mean all other cloud based services are not cloud services. Because it is what you're saying.

And the devs working on the PS4 probably don't need to utilise some cloud service for making their games because I reckon the hardware Sony provided is sufficient enough. If developers were clamouring for such services then it would of been implemented.
#5.10 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
grimmweisse  +   966d ago
Are you backwards or something?

Sony has always been a technology company you tit! Just because they didn't produce their own cloud service doesn't mean they are not a technology company. For christ sakes they produce TVs, PCs&notebooks, mobiles&tablets, sound&audio, gaming, etc... products. What are products.

The Gaikai accusation was an investment and major companies do it. But I don't think you really know how such things work judging for your lack of reasoning. Samsung, arguably the biggest technological company in the world, INVESTED in Sharp to produce the new Igzo displays for their upcoming products. Does that make now make Samsung a non- technological entity!

But keep spouting your nonsense it provides the comment thread with some humour.
BallsEye  +   965d ago
90% of people here on N4G have NO IDEA what they are talking about. Gaikai is nothing like Azure. Biggest companies IN THE WORLD use azure for their cloud computing (hello pixar). It's like comparing an old nokia to a smartphone - HEY IT CAN MAKE CALLS SO IT's THE SAME! You guys go learn a little before you cheer to every sony pr stunt.
SmokingMonkey  +   966d ago
This is a stupid concept,

Your not going to play Killzone/Halo/what have you, online with better graphics/textures/processing and play a different lesser version offline.

Obviously online only games like Destiny/Warcraft/MMO's can benefit from "cloud power"

but to come out with this bs to hide weaker specs is yet another black eye to the XBone.
#6 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(17) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
MasterCornholio  +   966d ago
Cloud computing is just a fairy tale invented by Microsoft to make the Xbox One appear to be more powerful than the PS4.

People have to wake up and realize that physical hardware is much better than cloud computing.

This goes for any system.

Motorola RAZR i
#7 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(28) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
MRMagoo123  +   966d ago
Thats got to be the truth, i think when sony revealed the PS4 and MS realised it was more powerful they had to think of a way to make out even tho their hardware wasnt as good they could be better,anyone with half a brain can see cloud wont work the way MS says it will the same way the kinect didnt work like the milo fiasco.
AznGaara  +   966d ago
See I never got why people doubted this. If Gaikai let you stream full games to your PC then I'm sure it can handle bits of AI or physics... Since Sony bought them of course the they'd implement it on the Ps4. It is common sense.
koolaid251  +   966d ago
It doesn't work like that.
CaulkSlap  +   966d ago
Gaikai is running the entire game on their servers. You're essentially viewing a video stream. All that you send out is control inputs.
Livecustoms  +   966d ago
Another feature MS have been trying to rip us off on.... Oh but dont worry you can have UNLIMITED friends ! oh and we have 300,000 servers (200,000 being artifical but no one needs to know that...) o'micrsoft...
NateCole  +   966d ago
Yes we all know unfortunately some people here believe that it could allow for 4 times the power which is pure fantasy.
Mikelarry  +   966d ago
to all the doubters out there you have now heard it. watch how they storm in here to say well it is not as good as the xbox one even though they haven't had any hands on on both to really tell.
#11 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
patsrule316  +   966d ago
The thing about the Gaikai streaming of old PS2 and PS3 games. Have they ever said if this would be free? I can see them giving it for free, I can see them giving it free to PS+ members only, I can see them only letting you stream games you had on your PSN account, I can see them charging on a game-by-game basis so you would still have to buy a game and then could play it, and I can see them using it as a netflix streaming style subscription service.

Much like many of the Microsoft services where they say there will be more details to come, I have considered this a more details to come like service for PS4, where I don't really know how good of a value it will be. It might be fantastic, and it might be very limited. Right now it is an unknown to me. Maybe someone else has seen something where they have been more definitive?
rageus  +   966d ago
I wouldn't mind a rental service, as long as it's worth the price.
HG_69   966d ago | Spam
FernandoMartinez  +   966d ago
Every device can "use the power of the could".

Krosis  +   966d ago
Lol I honestly log on just to read the fanboy comments. My favorite so far on this thread is from "Sonic200". Lmao "Sony, pass me something to bite on! I'm positive you can cram in a few more inches!" So sad.

On topic: since Sony has casually stated cloud gaming is possible I wonder how many of the kids on here will suddenly retract weeks of trolling and praise the cloud: omg! Teh Ps4 iz dat mo powerz! After all the resentment last console launch of 360 fans trolling the ps3 you'd think they'd set an example. Nope. Worship of electronics? Lol shameful.
#15 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(9) | Report | Reply
MysticStrummer  +   966d ago
Of course cloud computing is possible. No one has denied that. It's just not possible to the extent MS is claiming. Cloud computing is not going to make the One or the PS4 exponentially more powerful. The world's internet infrastructure just isn't at that level. The internet infrastructure in the biggest gaming market isn't there either. For now, cloud computing is PR talk, and that's about it. The people falling for this PR BS are the ones worshiping electronics, not the realistic people who are pointing out the flaws.
#15.1 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
PositiveEmotions  +   966d ago
Someone please explain this whole cloud thing and what does it do?
chcolatesnw  +   966d ago
its basically a console or a system that takes a load of calculations off of the console or user terminal, processes it, and sends it back to the user via internet. so lets say 30% of the processing done is by the cloud, the console can now process more data locally. in the end, cloud + console = more data processed than console alone
PositiveEmotions  +   966d ago
That confused me bro
grimmweisse  +   966d ago
That all sounds nice in theory, but until I see it in action and real world results I will continue to believe its just PR nonsense. With Sim City it was supposed to be the same, but in the end it was a DRM enforcement and those server side computations were proven to be unneeded for processing the data, even though Maxis said kind it was need!
ginsunuva  +   966d ago
Cloud = a computer on the other side of the internet.
Igniter  +   966d ago
The cloud is basically servers (processors and HDD's) connected to each other that can be used for remote storage and processing. A PC or console can send or receive data from these servers or store or retrieve data.

Uses could be saving profiles or game saves or the games themselves and retrieving them on a different console.
Developers could store new game assets that are streamed to the player.
SITH  +   966d ago
Or the entire game can be streamed. Onlive and Gaikai.
manageri   965d ago | Spam
Tei777  +   966d ago
Why would anyone doubt this. Surely rendering and streaming an entire game is more demanding then computing tiny sections of it.
Nyromith  +   966d ago
I prefer slightly lesser graphics to the always-online drm of cloud computing. If all this cloud tech means that the game stops working when the cloud servers are shut down (or dedicated to another game) I'll pass.
True_Samurai  +   966d ago
B-b-but I thought cloud computing was impossible? Now that Sony says it's possible everybody wants to cheer
Godmars290  +   966d ago
The thing is, where Sony likely plans to Gaiki to create a form of BC for PS3 and possibly PS2 and even PS1 games, anything they can get their hands on anyay, MS seems only focused on XBO titles and somehow improving the overall quality of those games. Somehow.

Nevermind all the questions with bandwidth use and type any of that involves.
kingPoS  +   966d ago
I read somewhere that a Sony rep said cloud computing wasn't a primary goal due to latency & bandwidth.

How can you squeeze pixel shaders through a 150ms ping?
#21 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
S2Killinit  +   966d ago
LOLL soooo what happens to Microsoft's last excuse now? Microsoft, you so sneaky
grassyknoll  +   966d ago
If the cloud was so great, Microsoft wouldn't need to make a new console. It's the biggest lie in gaming.
GamePeace  +   966d ago
Good, the Ps4 is getting better... day after day. The hypemeter is exploding...
IG-88  +   966d ago
cloud computing = blast processing
it is all marketing for now at least.
marchinggamer  +   966d ago
Good grief you people are itiots
SITH  +   966d ago
LMFAO! Pot meet kettle.
#26.1 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
reko  +   965d ago
calling people "idiots", when you cant even spell it?
#26.2 (Edited 965d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
BelieveinGhosts  +   966d ago
Haha, Got to love Sony :) How do they do it........
How do they keep feeding bullshit to the trolls on this website.

Anyone with half a brain knows that Sony cannot do cloud computing. They simply lack the fundamentals to make this happen. These fundamentals are Talented Software Engineers, Existing Infastructure and most of all a very deep pocket. Sony's pocket is very shallow and full of holes ;).....

Sony is a hardware company and a poor one at that, Sony is no longer the force it once was. I pity Sony, Not only are they battered by Microsoft in the gaming industry. They are also being fed to lions like Samsung and LG in the electronics industry.

FACE IT, Sony is being torn apart limb from limb by Microsoft, samsung, LG, and pretty much any other decent electronics manufacturer that can put up a fight.

Comparing Gaika to Microsoft AZURE is like comparing a bicycle to a US battle Ship. Gaika is a house cat and Microsoft AZURE is an African Male Lion. Gaika is Samon and MS AZURE is the equivalant of a Blue Whale. I could keep on going until i drill my point into the dense skulls of silly fanboys.
#27 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(10) | Report | Reply
punisher99  +   966d ago
"Sony is no longer the force it once was. I pity Sony, Not only are they battered by Microsoft in the gaming industry. They are also being fed to lions like Samsung and LG in the electronics industry."

Now this is the most asinine thing I've ever read. Sony has no outsold microsoft 2 generations straight. The PS2 has absolutely slaughtered the xbox, the PS3 has surpassed the 360. And this upcoming generation? Early sales are showing Sony dominating them again. The PS4 is even outselling them in their home country the U.S. Now exactly who has battered who?

"Sony is a hardware company and a poor one at that."

If Sony is a poor hardware company, then microsoft must be just flat out horrible with their ugly designs and shoddy hardware with 50% failure rates.
tommygunzII  +   966d ago
Whats next? MS using wireless controllers as a selling point?
CaulkSlap  +   966d ago
Promoting Xbox One's cloud computing as enhancing the console's technical power is just ridiculous. There's really no way to fully integrate cloud processing into a game run on a local machine. No rendering assistance would be even remotely possible so no graphical improvements. At best you could see AI data calculations done on servers and the commands sent to the console. But even that would suffer from latency problems and likely not be worth it.

But Azure may dramatically help multiplayer games function better with more players. XBL has been an absolute joke compared to PC gaming with only peer to peer hosting maxing out most games at 16 players.
Machiavellian  +   966d ago
There is a big difference saying you can do something and then actually having the platform and servers to actually do it. It amazes me how gullible people are when a suit says they can do something but has nothing to back it up. Giakai does not do cloud computing and it wasn't built for it.

MS has builted their platform called Orleans which you can do a google search on it and find out they have been working on this for years. You cannot just switch over to doing cloud compute and you cannot just up the amount of servers to make it a viable platform without spending the money. MS has spent over 14 billion on their platform. Giakai is nowhere close to having that type of infrastructure and Sony does not have it or they would not have needed to purchase Gaikai in the first place.

As someone mentioned trying to compare Gaikia to Azure just shows how much people really do not understand the huge difference between the 2. Gaikai would be the ball boy on a major league team wishing he was a ball player.

Sony does not have the infrastructure to give every developer free access to use their cloud servers for their games.

I am not sure if MS cloud compute will make a difference in today's games but I people saying that it cannot be done without a shred of experience probably should just wait and see. There are many developers who are excited to give it a go and you probably will not find any developer not liking more resources to throw at their games especially if MS make developing to their cloud compute seamless.
Tei777  +   966d ago
wait, so is cloud computing more demanding than rendering and streaming entire games through servers?
#30.1 (Edited 966d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
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