Submitted by doctorstrange 655d ago | news

Cliffy B: Numbers Don’t Work to Allow Used Games, “Disc Based Day one $60 Model is Crumbling”

The announcement that the PS4 would allow used games (at least to the extent the PS3 does) brought roars from the audience, and ‘won’ the conference online. But serial contrarian and Gears of War guy Cliff Bleszinski has come out in defense of blocking used games, something the Xbox One does. - PSLS (Cliff Bleszinski, E3, PS4, Xbox One)

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doctorstrange  +   655d ago | Well said
It's like he wants people to hate him
DxTrixterz  +   655d ago
Gears of War - Microsoft. There is your answer.
Relientk77  +   655d ago
It's like somehow Cliff B, Gears of War and Microsoft are all connected or something

conspiracies. they're here.
blackbeld   655d ago | Trolling | show
THE-COMMANDER  +   655d ago

Sony said more than once, that they are following the PS3 model in terms of used games and DRM.
darthv72  +   655d ago | Interesting
its like
the music industry all over again.

you have consumers saying they should be able to download music or convert their music to digital form. then you have the artists and studios saying you can't do that.

There has to be a happy medium here. Before Itunes, there were the various music sharing apps and people using any type of mp3 player to get their digital fix.

then the music industry flexes their muscle and napster takes the fall for the consumers. So then here comes apple to say, we can make things right for both sides. Selling licensed music for cheap gives the consumer the legal right to own the digital copy of a song while at the same time it gives some of that back to the artist that created it.

so maybe MS is the napster....it has to take the fall in this age of DRM for sony to come along and say, we can do things the right way. So it doesnt piss off the gamers but actually gets them to have compassion for the devs and publishers and in turn helps out the publishers in the long run.

There is a right way and a wrong way of doing something. Both Ms and Sony are publishers but one is doing things the wrong way with pushing (MS) and the other is doing things the right way with persuading (Sony).
Mucless   655d ago | Trolling | show
Godmars290  +   655d ago

So you're basically saying we only have Justin Beaver or J-pop level gaming to look forward to. That at some point production costs are going to have to level out if not drop.
webeblazing  +   655d ago

and dont musicians make most of they money on tour
and if both systems used bluray why dont they put some much content on the disc so it would be too much of a pain to download
poopsack  +   655d ago

Except everything Napster did wrong was for the user's benefit and corporation's loss (of course for their own benefit as well as this was their business model), which pissed off the corporations. Microsoft is the corporation, they wont "take the fall", they'll just pay their way out of it because its whats brought their success so far. Exclusivity (timed or true) and brand spamming (as before) is what they'll hope will make everyone forget all the negatives.
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YNWA96  +   655d ago
Whats wrong with buying a console and never having to pay for a game or multiplayer.... This is not fair :( boo hooo hooooo
morganfell  +   655d ago
Hey Cliff...relevant much?

Here is the undeniable rule. As soon as you beginb restricting the freedom of consumers, they drop you like a bad habit and find an alternative.

The more you tighten your grip, the more worlds will slip through your fingers.

These idiots calling for DRM worry about the industry when restricting consumers is the very thing that will insure the death of their current structure.
ThatsGaming  +   655d ago
Interesting because he no longer works for Microsoft.
pimpschitz   654d ago | Bad language | show
ltachiUchiha  +   654d ago

The difference with that is xbl wont be selling them cheaper compared to steam or psn. Go look now on xbl vs psn & you will see that the price differentials are a big difference. If any of these 2 were to do such a thing, sony will fit it perfect because they actually hook consumers up with deals all the time & if u have ps plus its not even close. ps plus blows xbl out the water with free games, cheaper games & is just better overall for consumers.
NewMonday  +   654d ago
if a one time game "license" cost just $20 for a core game then you wouldn't see all this uproar

but asking us to pay the full $60 JUST FOR STARTERS THEN CHARGE ANOTHER $20-$30 is ridiculous.

EA:".. looking at the customer more from an ARPU perspective rather than a packaged goods perspective, we think there's a great opportunity to get $70, $80, $90 from that consumer. But upfront from the clients, it's a $60 price point"

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Perjoss  +   654d ago

star systems
RumbleFish  +   654d ago
I have never understood the discussion. Used games bring money to the publishers too, because many gamers use the money they got from used games sales to buy new games. I would have bought less than half of my games if the games haven't had a resale value.
I say No! All we can see in these strategies is greed. If they weren't greedy they would have discounted downloadable versions with a rediculous cost for them compared to physical copies.
But look at the greedy pigs at EA: their games are even more expensive when you buy them in Origin instead of a physical copy. Are the people drunk to buy there?
Please excuse any wrong spelling/grammar, I am not a native speaker.
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papashango  +   654d ago
I don't blame him.

The dude feels like he's owed all his dues. Doesn't mean I support him. I just got no beef with a man trying to get his.
SilentNegotiator  +   654d ago
No, it's the fact that he's been rubbing on EA for the last 6 months. EA is supporting Microsoft with a temp exclusive (believe what you want; EA told Eurogamer 'we can't discuss Titanfall going to other systems' instead of 'maybe'...and we're talking about EA regardless). Thus, Cliffy is supporting Xbox One to make EA happy and hopefully land a job at EA, as he has been trying to do for months.

His Microsoft-heavy history probably helps his anti-consumer bias, though.
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Kleptic  +   654d ago
Cliff is a game designer...not a publisher/producer...I'll wait for Mark Rein's comments on Epic's stance with this...as it was Cliffy B claiming UE3 could 'only be done on an xbox 360'...when the head of Epic, a year later said...'completely untrue'...

the weirdest part with all of this is MS keeps saying they made all these DRM decisions with direct feedback from 'all the big 3rd party publishers', which one would assume would be EA and Activision...

but then both of those publishers clearly stated 'the current online pass policy works acceptably, we don't see any need for that to change' at their own conferences...which is exactly what Sony allows on the Ps4...they won't put passes on their own titles, but will allow 3rd parties to continue doing what the do now...

its not a debate...MS has really pushed themselves into a hole with this DRM stuff, and it doesn't seem like any non-affiliated people are backing them up. Cliff may be, but he's not exactly a go to business executive that has any important feedback...he just makes gears of war games...and more often than not, the company he actually works for (Epic), contradicts his own statements...
morganfell  +   654d ago
@perjoss - yes in Star Wars but this is something different ;)
abzdine  +   654d ago
what a jerk this guy is!!
a console that doesn't even work all over the world how can he say this type of nonsense?! if only it worked alright everywhere ok maybe he has a point because he is paid by MS but come on!

Greatness awaits
Mutant-Spud  +   654d ago
The answer to music piracy was Spotify, so we can expect to see something like that with games, Greenlight is another response, so you could see a scenario where only the people who invest a certain amount of money in the game get the full featured product on day one. The other solution would just be to move to completely digital distribution and make the games cheaper, EB is advertising PS4 games at about $120 Australian, if they were $30 I would probably buy one a fortnight.
Don't forget we're yet to see the "Steambox" too, that could trump both consoles.
Why o why  +   655d ago
Maybe Microsoft listened a little too much to the wrong devs. I won't have to deal with anything of the sort cliffy boy. Thanks for ut series btw....great games
HammadTheBeast  +   655d ago
When money talks, M$ listens.
solidjun5  +   654d ago
He's the ultimate shill.
Knushwood Butt  +   654d ago
Cliffy looks like he just stepped out of his meth lab.
Jazz4108  +   654d ago
As long as third party pubs do t limit trading games at gamestop then its business as usual for trade ins on xboxone. Its been stated several times this is the case with both sony and ms so as far as trade ins it sounds oike nothing is changing. Please provide me a link if anyone knows something that says ms will not let you trade your games in for credit or cas to retailers please.
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Thirty3Three  +   655d ago
Who the hell is this guy and why should I care about him or what he says...?
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RankFTW  +   655d ago
You really don't know who he is?
Thirty3Three  +   654d ago
@rank;Uh.. no.

Unlike many, I don't spend my life on the internet.
MRMagoo123   654d ago | Offensive
Thirty3Three  +   654d ago
I agree, completely, MRMagoo123!

Thanks for the explanation :D
tuglu_pati  +   655d ago
Every time I hear some one say this developer is greedy or this company is greedy, i wonder what the hell you guys have in your head.

This companies are in for the money not to have loses. The truth is I'm not happy with all this DRM and used games talk. But the reality is this developer need to make money or you think they do all this for the fun of it.
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ylwzx3  +   655d ago
LOL! If every corporation did this I can't wonder but how you would feel then.
BlackTar187  +   655d ago
Hey Tuglu,

Please explain to me why the consumer is on the knife for this problem? They want money on used games get a reasonable case built and take it to the supreme court to rule on. The consumer should not bear the brunt of the change because the game industry and its retail markets build a bad business model. Fix the model fix the problem. Don't fix the consumer side when its not the consumer side with the problem.

I thin alot of developers do make games for the fun and love of it.

I hope whoever disagreed with me has a great thought out point and shares otherwise you are a sad sad little man
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webeblazing  +   655d ago
yeah completely right but as customers we have to let them know whats not gonna fly then we can meet on middle ground
blind-reaper  +   655d ago
You have to respect the consumer if your consumer's respect back, with Microsoft's policies you are only hurting legit consumers (people who buy original games).
tuglu_pati  +   655d ago

"I thin alot of developers do make games for the fun and love of it."

I love what i do for living that does not mean i'll do it for free and believe me i will go with whoever pay me more for my work. Its important to love what you do, but you do it also because you need the money to provide your family (if you have one) with the best resources. If you think this developer will go through all the work just for fun, you need a little dosis of reality.

@ BlackTar187 Bellow

If you read my first post, you'll notice that i say im not happy with it, nor do I approve. I'm just saying that every time i hear someone say a company is greedy i wonder, if this someone know this companies are in for money not for the fun of it.

I guess you need to learn how to read and comprehend before replay.
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BlackTar187  +   655d ago
Hey tuglu,

Why not respond to the meat of my post? Why respond to the 5% at the bottom. Fact is your full of it and your punish the consumer thought process for bad industry business model is laughable.
nypifisel  +   654d ago
If developers want to make more money they have to present us with a product we're willing to pay full price for. There's already been studies that comes to the conclusion that restricting used games lessen profits from game sales - unless the prices of the games drops with over 30%. And we all know that's not going to happen, they just want to have the cake and eat it too.

Why should we (the consumers) pay for that? Sony went with a more consumer friendly approach and god damn will they cash in on that. They'll see that a happy consumer is a spending one, Sony will with this line earn tonnes of money - and they will do this cause they delivered what we wanted, not restricting what we deserve.
badz149  +   654d ago
consumers are not in the wrong in this! not at all! it's about consumer's rights on physical media that they paid money for that M$ is about to take away!

it's just common sense that if you buy anything physical, you have the rights to keep, lend, trade in or resell them as you wish! XBone is not allowing that or at least not making it easy to do it like the old days!

if they really think that used market really is THAT threatening to the industry, why don't they go full digital like Steam? no one will complain like with Steam because you never have a physical copy to begin with.

they are afraid the world is not ready yet for full DD and still stick to disc based games but at the same time trying to pull a BS!
Tyre  +   654d ago
@Tugly pati BS We all make money. If you want to make a quick buck...go be a prostitute. Most of the developers do it out of a passion. In the entertainment business, creative people with passion are essential. That's why you get new IPs and Good games. Cliffy is just as wrong. They are all misguided by the end of the console cycle/economic crisis & their religious misguided believe in mobile business models & DRM (especially Cliffy cause he worked so close with Microsoft). Mobile is a fad. Text Necks & Neck Hernia epidemics are on the rise. No one will ever defeat the big screen. The myth that Used games threaten AAA sales has been debunked by Gamestop's real figures & facts dozens of times. Used games stimulate the buying of new AAA titles cause they leave you with more money in your pocket. We have seen this talk since the 80ies and consoles are bigger than ever! The new AAAs will sell even more nextgen. I know my friends & I are all pre-ordering PS4s (thx to Sony we will buy) & we will buy ALL AAA titles. Everybody is excited, Next-Gen will kick off BIG and even Indie Games/Hardware Architecture/ease of development are better than they were ever.....all this BS about the games industry will seem like yesterday's irrelevant nonsense by greedy bastards, as the NextGen drops.
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tuglu_pati  +   654d ago

how old are u? Nevermind :/
juggulator  +   654d ago
Activision made a billion dollars on Black Ops 2. It's up to them as to how much of a cut Treyarch gets.
YNWA96  +   654d ago
@ black tar, its obvious as this industry matured, this would happen. We are going digital eventually, and there will be no used games ever again.... So either you will pirate or buy legal.... MS simply making first move, very unpopular, but progressive.... This might eventually lead to much bigger sales of games, but cheaper....
avengers1978  +   655d ago
And let's hear it for gaming a biggest DBAG, ladies and gentlemen, cliffy b
Blachek  +   654d ago
He said it like it is.
nypifisel  +   654d ago

Cliff is clueless. He's not saying it like it is, he's saying it like they want it to be. If AAA games can't make profits from 5 millions in sales, then perhaps that game shouldn't had cost that much to make. It's how everything works, why would there be an exception for games? It's a product like everything else.

Seriously if they can't reign in the budgets and create games that are profitable then that's their fault. If AAA games of today can't live in the climate that exists, they don't deserve to.
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Astargatis  +   655d ago
Edge source anyone...?
Why o why  +   655d ago
That gif (jif) doesn't surprise me one bit even though sony also advertises in that section. I've always thought that edge were bias on multiple fronts. Ar well, I guess I'm wearing a tin foil hat again right because sonys there too right....lol
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NextGen24Gamer  +   655d ago
It's funny because its all common sense to me. People/consumers want want want but some are too cheap to pay for what they want. When you buy a game, you don't own the content. You can't make copies of it. As consumers we have been spoiled. PCs have had this tech for years and now consoles have the tech and I'm glad they are finally implementing it. It should drive cost of new games down and developer can get paid for their work instead of GameStop reselling it like they own it over and over again. One copy of a game gets sold to one consumer and then that consumer sells it to GameStop for pennies on the dollar and then GameStop sells it close to full price to a new consumer and the dev receives none of it. God loving people got to see the wrong in that. Common sense stuff.

People complain about everything. I just believe in right and wrong.
BlackTar187  +   655d ago
please explain why its our job as consumers to fix a poor business model?
NextGen24Gamer  +   655d ago
It's not the consumers job. It's e developers and publishers and console makers job. And guess what? They are finally doing it. Thank goodness. Finally got it right for consoles. Gamers will benefit with games that coat less.
ShwankyShpanky  +   655d ago
I'd love to see how these ridiculous arguments would have played out sixty years ago.

Hasbro statement: "When you buy the game Clue, you are buying a license to use the product. The paper/cardboard in the box is only a delivery medium for the IP that is printed on the medium, to which Hasbro retains all rights of resale. By selling/purchasing a used copy of Clue, you are taking money that rightly belongs to Hasbro developers and placing it in the hands of used toy resellers."
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kalkano  +   655d ago
Bull. I can make as many copies as I want, as long as I don't distribute them. That's why roms are legal. They are a backup copy, in case something happens to the original. Of course, they are mostly used in an illegal manner.
MRMagoo123   654d ago | Personal attack | show
clonerz  +   654d ago
Whoa Is Me Mr Elite I'm so sorry forgive me should I kiss your Boot now yeah hmm... Not gonna happen bottom line is if I buy something I should be allowed to do with it as I please example lend it to a friend use it on more than one console in my house sell it to whomever I want to (Mgoo said it all)
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NextGen24Gamer  +   654d ago
Mrmagoo and anyone else who doesn't understand.

If what u say is true and is the law. Why can't you do all that with computer games? Lol

You sound like a spoiled baby who is having your binky snatched away and you believe you have a right to it. Guess what? You have grown up...I think...and you have managed without it. Lol...or maybe you still need it with all the whining you are doing.

Fact is...the system is broken as is...we the consumer have been taking advantage of the broken system and now consoles are catching up to what pcs have been doing for ever.

Ms has tweaked and perfected the pc game model by allowing you to install your game on 10 different game systems.

By allowing you to trade game in

By allowing you to let someone borrow it once

By allowing you to play it on any system you want as your games follow you

On the pc there are games you can't play without an Internet connection. It's the way of the future. You can't play a console without electricity.

You can tether Internet from your cell phone once a day and it only takes kilobytes to check in.

Sony clearly went he way of the caveman by keeping the same model for the next gen. It def makes last gen gamers happy. Keeps the binky in your mouth just a little longer. But it is coming out sooner or later. Grow up
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MysticStrummer  +   654d ago
I don't know about other people's towns, but GameStop has closed 2/3 of the stores near me. Their business practices and price gouging was already starting to hurt them. There are simply better and cheaper ways to get used games, and GameStop was going to have to change their ways if they wanted to stay in business. You believe in right and wrong? Punishing consumers for GameStop's business practices is wrong.

Common sense stuff indeed.

If you think game prices will come down because of this, you're fooling yourself.
He Must be working on a new xbox exclusive.

**rolles eyes**
Relientk77  +   655d ago
Oh I wouldn't be surprised at all
Rhaigun  +   655d ago
Arguments like this from Cliffy B piss me off. Hollywood would be over the moon if they could get away with $60 movie tickets. And their budgets are still millions of dollars higher.

If I go to the theater and pay $10 to see a movie, then also buy said movie for $20 on bluray, its still $30 cheaper.
Gamer1982  +   654d ago
Exactly they spend a LOT more developing films too. Gamer developing done well makes millions for developers. They lose money not because of used games but because of being badly managed. Movies you could argue are bought by more than games but they are 1/4 of the price so that easily makes up for the difference. Te reason games don't sell like movies is the price and they talk about increasing them every generation. They are going in the wrong direction and eventually consumers will stop buying..
Blachek  +   654d ago
I agree with Cliffy B in relationship to the construction of price points for console games. Reading this site, it is ridiculous how people flock to Sony because they aren't trying to right the ship... where as Microsoft is. How else do people think they can correct this pricing structure?

MS has shown they are looking to the future, while Sony is playing Loss-Leader hoping that this fundamental ideology they both have leads to MS losing sales. If Sony doesn't implement a new structure this gen, you had better believe they will next.

Like Cliffy B said in this article, and I have in the past... Sony is riding this MS Hate Train knowing full well they will follow suit at some point. They are just waiting until people are tired of complaining about the direction the industry is headed.
THamm  +   655d ago
Lower the price of the COMPLETE games, not only would you sell more, also we wouldn't care about used games
Masterdon   655d ago | Spam
LAZL0-Panaflex  +   655d ago
He's an Xbox fan boy scrub. If $60 games were crumbling he wouldn't have a Lamborghini and that wife being the treasure troll/teletubby he is.

PS gears 3 campaign was dogshit.
Mithan  +   654d ago
Or maybe he is smarter than most of you dumb fucks who post on the internet and knows the realities of a business case.
StuffofLegend  +   654d ago
Agreed. The game economy was built on non drm terms, I couldn't possibly believe that because one company tanks on the opposing terms that its the end of gaming. Worst case scenario, video games get a revolution and a huge indie surge.
Christopher  +   654d ago
If you can't have this model, then why are publishers walking away with hundreds of millions and even billions in profits each year?

Also, if this model is broken, then why are PC games coming out cheaper and have a much higher piracy rate... but are still going strong?
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tiffac008  +   654d ago
Exactly, I think creating the right expectations will lead to better development cost.

Its the industry that is over budgeting the game production due to unreasonable expectations and only heaven knows where they are actually investing and losing their money at.

I mean look at Square Enix, they made millions on Tomb Raider, Hitman and Sleeping Dogs and yet they come out and say they didn't make money?

Something is wrong here and the consumer is being used as a scapegoat.
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rainslacker  +   654d ago
I wish I could bubble you up cg.

Edit:BTW the answer to your question is because they are already finding ways to monetize games more. DLC, MT, etc. Cliffy says something to that effect, and he's not wrong, but it seems like the solution is there. It's not ideal for the gamer, and some companies abuse it, but it's a fair compromise in many cases, as it's completely optional on the user side of things.

I'd personally be very interested to see these numbers he speaks of. After all this talk, he finally mentions that he has numbers, so I say transparency is key if he wants us to bite.
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Rubberlegs  +   654d ago
PC games are cheaper because its all digital now. You can get a new released game on the PC day one going digital for just about half off the price. Boxed versions your always going to be paying the retail price for a new release.
lilbrat23  +   654d ago
He supports it because developers are getting greedy. Now if you are going to charge me to trade my game in you better drop those games to $30
Christopher  +   654d ago
Not developers. The people who lead the development companies and get money back from the games. Majority of developers make a salary and that's it.
Muffins1223  +   654d ago
rainslacker  +   654d ago
Agreed. It's one thing to say what he does, but I've said many times before...Show us those numbers. Show us how the used game market affects bottom lines. Show us and maybe we'd be willing to compromise.
t0mmyb0y  +   654d ago
I work with a guy like him :)
wellard  +   654d ago
Yup, he is desperate for hate. I couldnt read the article properly though, all i got from it was, "Im a tool, greed greed greed, gamers are tossers, F&^£ them, im a tool, tool tool tool. Give me more money, im a tool"
TheTwelve  +   654d ago
I love this! Because I want everyone to see how wrong Microsoft is this gen. So that this crap never happens again in this industry.

Cueil  +   654d ago
he's just trolling for lolz
Fairchild Channel F  +   654d ago
Of course he agrees and supports DRM. He and his wife need gas money for their Lamborghini's.
KRUSSIDULL  +   654d ago
Lame excuse to use DRM to make more money. Publishers need more money all the time to create higher quality games so they ask for more money so they can compete with other high quality games.
But they don't seem to wanna make game development cheaper because the competition is to high.
In the end consumers may not be able buy new games because they weren't able to sell the used games.
Not to mention DRM may hurt other games than are not most have games because consumer only have afford to buy the most have titles.
otherZinc  +   654d ago
There will be a backlash waiting for SONY. SONY started this some time ago then pulled the string at the end. Great for consumers, not good for devs where their games sell less than 1mil 1st 8 weeks.
NVIDIAGeek  +   654d ago
Yea, just like his career.
nosferatuzodd  +   654d ago
People don't really get it this is a nazi move by Microsoft
Look I'm a Sony fan but I'm not that blind if Sony did this crap I would stay away from them has well.

Forget about ps4 buy a PC instead or wii u just don't sopport this crap from Microsoft
remember this is bigger than ps4 vs Xbox this is about freedom if Microsoft succeeds then
Kiss you're asss goodbye with owning you're own game
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Tyre  +   654d ago
@nosferatuzodd Well said. bubble for you!
FamilyGuy  +   654d ago
This guy is an idiot, not all games have to be AAA, they can be made at high-decent quality with lower budgets and still be very profitable. Heavy Rain is a good example of this and a few indie games have raked in cash this gen: Super Stardust guys, Journey devs, Minecraft makers, Castle Crashers creators, and more.

Renting and used games are NOT the problem here. Games sell based on their perceived quality and worth. No matter how big the budget spent, a game has to look like it's worth the cost. Visual quality, replay value, content, etc.
Consoldtobots  +   654d ago
MS and their minions are COMPLETELY talking out of their behinds on this one. the biggest problem with the used game market was the publishers bearing the brunt of second and third dips of their multiplayer service from people who paid money for a used game to a third party like gamestop. EA fixed that problem with their $10 online fee for previously used titles. What this amounts to is GREEEEEEEED from MS and those in the industry who think like they do. In other words they feel the cost of entry to any one of their games is $60 for EVERYONE. I say good luck to them with that attitude let us know how it works out for ya.
jcnba28  +   650d ago
For telling the truth? It's like you don't want to face reality.
Moonman  +   655d ago
that hair..... ;/
Mr_Nuts  +   655d ago
God it's Carrot Top's younger brother
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Majin-vegeta  +   655d ago
He reminds me of Dr.evils son Scotty xD.
Relientk77  +   655d ago
haha, at both ^
TongkatAli  +   655d ago
PirateThom  +   655d ago
Maybe if games weren't $60, more people would buy new. That's why it's crumbling.
ShwankyShpanky  +   655d ago
"You cannot have game and MARKETING BUDGETS this high..."

Hmmmmmm..... then don't?
Qrphe  +   654d ago

$10 million dollar budget


Metro The Last Light made with 10% of the typical AAA budget

Simple answer for Cliffy, cut game budgets (marketing specially). Publishers are the true cancer here, hopefully self-publishing brings everything into balance.
Viper7  +   654d ago
Exactly, the blockbuster business model is broken to begin with and should be abandoned as soon as possible.

There are plenty of indies, doing AAA-quality stuff with budgets fraction of what AAA-developers.

Sure their games might be missing 30 minute cut-scenes, hollywood voice acting and they focus heavily on gameplay.. wait a minute, why do I even play AAA-games anymore?
#3.1.2 (Edited 654d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(0) | Report
ShaunCameron  +   653d ago
Eh. The $60 price is nothing. The real problem is the high costs just to make the game itself. Some of the most successful games this generation were made with relatively low budgets. The Call Of Duty franchise, any Wii game, etcetera.

@ Viper7

jc48573  +   655d ago
wait, something doesn't quite makes sense. He is saying that MS is the savior? preventing industry from loosing money because of used games? Then what was all that BS about games getting cheaper to develop now?

Edit: Even Ubisoft believes the importance of used games, so I don't know why Cliff is bringing up Assassin's Creed as an example of how much games cost to make when you have thousands of dev working on it.
#4 (Edited 655d ago ) | Agree(28) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Relientk77  +   655d ago
That's nice. PS4 and Wii U, No restrictions ftw. Microsoft go home, your drunk.
#5 (Edited 655d ago ) | Agree(36) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
sourav93  +   654d ago
This sums it up pretty well: http://www.youtube.com/watc...
TrendyGamers  +   655d ago
I don't think it's crumbling, but it is declining, especially when games go on sale to $40 2 weeks - month after launch.
Foxgod  +   655d ago
The XB1 doesnt block used games, and cliffy it totally right here.
Why o why  +   655d ago
Paid by the hour or by the comment....smh

Please explain how used games aren't blocked if I've not got net for example. If I cant lend a game, according to your employers, what word should I use mr fox
#7.1 (Edited 655d ago ) | Agree(23) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
ShwankyShpanky  +   655d ago
So if I sell a game I'm finished with on Ebay, and then that buyer sells it on Ebay when they're done with it, their buyer will be able to pop it into the Xbone and play it?

If the answer is anything but "yes," I believe that would pretty clearly fall under the definition of "blocking used games."
InTheLab  +   654d ago
According to Foxgod, that would be blocking used used games.../sarcasm
MRMagoo123  +   654d ago
you are in a world of your own foxgod i swear you are either just saying this stupid sh!t to get a rise out of ppl or you are one stubbie short of a six pack.
NateCole  +   655d ago
Yeah we feel sorry for you for not affording 3 sports cars instead of the two you have.

Quite the drama queen.
MrSwankSinatra  +   655d ago
"Disc Based Day one $60 Model is Crumbling" Gee i wonder why??? since a lot of games that come out are even worth 60 dollars, hell games like asura's wrath that are bare bones in content came out at 60 dollars. if these publishers started pricing games accordingly you might have a lot more people buying new games rather than used. this is problem with these industry people they have no damn clue about business with their one track minds.
sway_z  +   655d ago
You'd expect him to say this since he falls within the category that stands to gain from DRM/Used Game fees.

No big surprise there....
#10 (Edited 655d ago ) | Agree(11) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Munnkyman  +   655d ago
He looks like a douche bag and sounds like one to so don't pay attention
brianunfried  +   655d ago
That may be true, but you need to at least give people a choice between physical and digital media.
1nsomniac  +   655d ago

Games are getting easier therefore cheaper to develop, thanks to the better architecture & better tools. The only thing financially that is costing them more is the motion capture acting. As we see with most none "commercially financially oriented company's" - Naughty Dog the use of none AAA film stars instead of EA/Activision who spend big bucks on someone famous to do a voice.

A lot of developers have come out after the speculation of the new gen bringing higher new gen prices, confirming this.
#13 (Edited 655d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(7) | Report | Reply
Unicron  +   655d ago
"Games are getting easier therefore cheaper to develop"

Not exactly, as you get into in the rest of your post. Consumers are mostly expecting bigger and bigger things from their AAA titles - higher production values, better soundtracks and voice acting, more intelligent AI, and of course better visuals. That all costs money, time, and manpower. Yes, you can do more with less now - but people still want even more than that!
1nsomniac  +   655d ago
Like other developers have confirmed, there is already far superior stock tools that provide all that already without the need for any tweaking in some cases, the only thing I see costing more is as you say the acting side of it but as other developers have shown you don't need to spend massive amounts of money on famous actors when you can get the same if not more devoted from lesser known far cheaper actors.

Either way realistically I cant see his argument standing. I didn't see anything wrong with the online pass method but completely blocking the ability for the customer to sell something they bought is ridiculous.
#13.1.1 (Edited 655d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(3) | Report
webeblazing  +   655d ago
i wonder why pc have been doing these so called things so long at cheaper price. production value and soundtrack is subjective. bastion has amazing soundtrack i think you mean sound quality like 5.1 and 7.1 soundsound than thats on pc even the sims 3 have 5.1 but some games dont tho.
maniacmayhem  +   654d ago
I disagree Unicron, game development can be easier if that company has the right tools and budgets correctly. Most of these big devs or publishers blow out their budgets completely by hiring close to 600 people for one game over a three year period.

That to me is INSANE. I remember an article about RES 6 and how it was spread across maybe 3 or 4 studios and over 700 staff or something close. That is insane considering the game was average and that the previous RE's were 10x better.

These companies need to learn how to budget and prioritize and stop paying these ridiculous amounts of money to these supposed rock star producers, engineers and pm's.
Unicron  +   654d ago
Maniac, I totally agree! It's all about good planning, design, and sticking to your production schedule. We shouldn't be shaming people that use Unreal for example, as it helps get your game up and running that much faster.

Bloat is one thing (AC3, RE6), but the general trend is still people want bigger games, more spectacle, and a more polished and refined experience. Eventually something has to give though when it all comes down to it, since no team has unlimited time, money, and skill to spend.
hiredhelp  +   655d ago
Finally some people starting to see fluffy B the way i did 2 years ago In MS pocket well you can stick your lips to MS BUTT all you like you lost my cred ages ago. Sorry thats how i feel
OrangePowerz  +   655d ago
I never liked the guy.
hiredhelp  +   655d ago
Did i say fluffy 😶 i meant Cliffy
MRMagoo123  +   654d ago
awwwww but i had a pic of a fluffy bee in my head when you said that awwwww fluffy bees they are sooo cute
hiredhelp  +   654d ago
OrangePowerz  +   655d ago
Given that trade ins are often used to be able to afford new games the market would loose more money without used games compared to what is lost when people buy used games.
BlackTar187  +   655d ago
Since im a father now almost all my games are bought with trade ins.
LAZL0-Panaflex  +   655d ago
Craigslist would get u more bang for your buck.
04soldier  +   654d ago
or craiglist could get more buck(shotgun shells) in your butt
MRMagoo123  +   654d ago
I have never heard one positive thing from anyone using craigs list , its all been bad stuff
edonus  +   654d ago
No it wont. The value of a games is dictated by the consumers. If you trade in a new popular game it doesnt lose value because some one else is looking for it so it retains value.
As time goes on and other games come out and people move on that games value decreases. These are the thing that determine value.
it doesnt matter if the game is at a Gamestop or on a server waiting to be downloaded. Its not like the publisher is going to keep a 2yr old game at its launch price its going to cost the same as it would at a Gamestop its just that when you buy it the money would go to the devs and not Gamestop.
Godmars290  +   655d ago
And still there's no recognition that used, rental and lent games promote game sales. That cutting off access to that sub-market does not automatically equal increased sales.
grassyknoll  +   655d ago
MS's DRM isn't gonna work if no one buys the console because of it. Fool.
WalterWJR  +   655d ago
If cliffy B - B stands for bull
Summons75  +   655d ago
You quit, go home cliffy no one liked, likes or will ever like you.
from the beach  +   655d ago
He's right. And if you disagree because he's associated with MS, here's something David Jaffe tweeted earlier:

"For people complaining about the WHOPPING 5 bucks/month fee required for PS+/Online gaming, just tell yourself the console costs $460&comes with a free game out the game (Driveclub) like old school console pack ins + tons of other free games in the following months. I mean,FUCKING SHEESH people, you do realize that shit costs money to make and this is a business as well as an art/entertainment, right? The way some of these online gamers are responding to the news,it's like they are only happy if they get amazing shit for free;am I missing sumthin?"
Valkyre  +   655d ago
He is wrong and your quote from Jaffe is completely UNRELATED to DRM which is the discussion here.

apples - oranges.

Now go and pre order your xbox one, you deserve each other.
from the beach  +   655d ago
Are you guys seriously unable to make the link?

Both are saying "support the games industry, PLEASE".
OrangePowerz  +   655d ago
Jaffe doesn't say anything about used games here. He talks about online and that it costs money to have servers running.
Mikelarry  +   655d ago
@ organepowerz you know how trolls work. seeing something and trying to twist it to make sense to what he believes in. ignore the troll
#20.2.1 (Edited 655d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(1) | Report
XabiDaChosenOne  +   655d ago
You didn't even read the quote did you? If your going to be a consumer supporting anti consumer policies at least read the material that is supposedly backing your arguement smdh....
BlackTar187  +   655d ago
Support the game industry okay...........

Nowhere does he say DRM is good for anyone but the developer. and a developer is nothing with out the consumer.

Make the link ? Lol From the beach how much do you get paid per post?
maniacmayhem  +   654d ago
@The Beach

I understand what you are trying to do but the truth is that quote is somewhat unrelated to the DRM topic.
Jaffe is trying to justify Sony's mandatory PS+ online fee but not used games or the blocking of used games.
DEEBO  +   655d ago
yeah i got burn a few times buying new then the games go on sale two to three weeks later.but i also traded in some games to get new ones without having to pay a dime.but the cards have been delt,sony&nintendo went one way MS went the other.may the best man win.cliffy's love for ms makes him speak on the situation even if he's not making games for them.loyal to the end,i can't hate on that.MS has been taking a pounding since may.now the tables have turn and sony is getting the love and that's hard for some people to handle.
ErcsYou  +   655d ago
"The visual fidelity and feature sets we expect from games now come with sky high costs. Assasins Creed games are made by thousands of devs."

What a liar. Most games are built with the visual fidelity and feature sets and down graded for current gen hardware. Costs should go down next gen because "porting games" should be much easier than this generation.

Assasins Creed wouldnt require thousands of developers if they didnt shove one down our throat every year.
#22 (Edited 655d ago ) | Agree(11) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
YNWA96  +   655d ago
Your very smart and informative..... How long did it take you to search the net and find that crap?
rainslacker  +   654d ago
Here's a fun challenge for everyone.

Grab a notebook and pencil. Make two columns. Mark one dev team, the other production team. Go grab your favorite, high quality, AAA game. Throw it into the console, then watch the credits.

When you see programmers, artists, QA's, team leads, etc, make a mark in the dev team column.

When you see production assistant, producer, non-development directors, marketing, associate producers, corporate sounding titles, etc, make a mark in the production team column.

Be sure to omit any special thanks people near the bottom. You can also omit voice actors/motion actors, as they're just kind of necessary depending on the game.

Now add up both columns, and see which one is 2-3 times larger.

Now, go and do the same for a well produced indie game. Add up the columns and note the difference. For extra credit, you can mark how many people have more than one job on these titles too. You'd be surprised at the results.
#22.2 (Edited 654d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
MoonConquistador  +   654d ago
I love games and all that but this sounds worse than an angry birds championship. Can't you just post results since you've been playing this for a while.

If its all the same, I'd much rather borrow your copy of Forza 5 when you get it.

Oh wait, I can't. I'll ask MS if that's ok first
rainslacker  +   654d ago
For a $10 fee I'll post the results.:P
trouble_bubble  +   655d ago
omfg, the guy whose most disappointing game of 2011 was Uncharted 3 says DRM is good, don't buy used, feel sorry for big budget games like AC that need mo' money, and that Sony is playing all of us. Wotta shouche, ie shill-douche
ylwzx3  +   655d ago
I can't help but wonder how people that defend this DRM thing would feel if every corporation decided to do the same thing and yank money from you when you resold a product. Why should "gaming" be subject to the developers raking in profit a second time over any other company?

#24 (Edited 655d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Tyre  +   654d ago
@ylwzx3 Well said! bubble for you! Great gif! LMAO
#24.1 (Edited 654d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
ylwzx3  +   653d ago
Here is the real movie clip!

blackbirdi   655d ago | Immature | show
ajax17  +   655d ago
You should have used this picture:
Nodoze  +   655d ago
Only someone who drives a lime green Lamborghini would say that
$60 games are not working. He wants another Lamborghini.

License plate reads Douchebag

Whoops he already has two Lamborghinis.

Cry more about how poor developers are plz
#27 (Edited 655d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
YNWA96  +   655d ago
Do not blame the guy for being good at what he does..... You should spend less time crying and do more in real world.....
tarbis  +   654d ago
So, why are you here?
rainslacker  +   654d ago
To be fair, he has worked on some extremely popular, high selling titles. Most dev's don't rake in nearly as much cash.

But otherwise I agree with your point. Until they show me proof that used games hurt the industry, I will keep my rights. Thank you.
Williamson  +   655d ago
I really do dislike this guy.
Akira2020  +   655d ago
I'm glad he's loosing his hair.
Sm00thNinja  +   655d ago
Lol you people are truly delirious. Do you really think the current used game model is here to stay?
Rusty515  +   654d ago
BABY-JEDI  +   654d ago
I think it's going to be really interesting to see how the sales models shape up after a few months of the next gen consoles release. The gamers (all of us) will let you know. Personally, MS stance here means I will not get their next Xbox. Hence, they have lost a sale already. Just want to add, I have an Xbox, PS3 & a Wii.
PS4 already pre-ordered. ; )
hkgamer  +   654d ago
Dont think much will change because of this used games policy apart from bringing in a little bit more money to publishers and MS and a little less to retailers.

Retailers will push for sony sales a little more and sony PS4 multiplats will probably sell around 10-15% more like how 360 sells 10-15% more than PS3. However, the loss in sales will be recuperated by MS used games policy.

Sony will follow with MS used games policy next gen(if there is a next gen).
BABY-JEDI  +   653d ago
@ hkgamer, I think your missing my point. Many people who have favoured the Xbox systems really feel badly let down by MS stance to the point of switching to Sony.
wishingW3L  +   654d ago
let's talk again 10 years down the road. ;)
fatstarr  +   654d ago
hes right in some points
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